THAI insists rehab plan on track

[webfact]

THAI insists rehab plan on track

By The Nation

 

Acting THAI president Chansin Treenuchagron

 

Thai Airways International (THAI) on Wednesday insisted its rehabilitation plan is progressing without interruption under Bankruptcy Court supervision.

 

The announcement came after the court granted THAI’s request to extend the deadline for submission of the plan from January 2 to February 4.

 

Acting THAI president Chansin Treenuchagron explained the rehab plan involved many creditors and complex issues that required consultation from experts and professional advisers before its submission.

 

The court approved the airline’s rehabilitation petition on September 14 last year and appointed seven rehab planners nominated by the airline.

 

Chansin said the planners were making good progress, while THAI management and staff were cooperating towards their efforts.

 

Source: https://www.nationthailand.com/business/30401186

 

 

-- © Copyright The Nation Thailand 2021-01-14

 

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[RichardColeman]

46 minutes ago, webfact said:

The announcement came after the court granted THAI’s request to extend the deadline for submission of the plan from January 2 to February 4.

 

The court approved the airline’s rehabilitation petition on September 14 last year and appointed seven rehab planners nominated by the airline.

I wouldn't have allowed an extension until I had seen what they had been doing for the last 4 months first

[scorecard]

18 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

I wouldn't have allowed an extension until I had seen what they had been doing for the last 4 months first

Two points:

- What they have been doing for the last 4 months, and

- How much of that work is strongly focused on really rehabilitating the airline.

 

And, if free tickets not cancelled early in the talks with minimum discussion, also cabin crew allowed to pick and choose what routes they fly not cancelled, then I would want very serious answers as to 'why not'!. Also want to see a completely new structured approach to marketing and pricing. Also want to see that old TG management staff banned from joining any meetings, and totally new policies / authorities about borrowing, and ... 

-

Two days ago I tied to call TG to get some details about flights Sydney to Bkk in March and April. Call transferred several times, offered a free sight seing trip but no answers to my questions. What a joke.

[ezzra]

I used to have a lot of respect for Thai Inter and flew with them when ever i needed, but their lack of sympathy and complete disappearance from the scenes without as much as anyone to man the phones and response to many thousands of queries from their own passengers by just locking up shops and turning off all communication left me with a bitter taste in my my mouth as far as liking or supporting Thai again...

[scorecard]

46 minutes ago, ezzra said:

I used to have a lot of respect for Thai Inter and flew with them when ever i needed, but their lack of sympathy and complete disappearance from the scenes without as much as anyone to man the phones and response to many thousands of queries from their own passengers by just locking up shops and turning off all communication left me with a bitter taste in my my mouth as far as liking or supporting Thai again...

Similar, for about 12 years I flew Bkk to many regional cities, 2 to 4 times a week, mostly day trips, progressively their booking and check-in service went downhill, and their cabin service became disgraceful and often just rude. One example, my 18 yo old son on holidays flew with me Bkk to Jakarta business class. His ticket (paid by me) was the most expensive ticket class because his ticket had to match mine with total flexibility to continuously change flight/ dates etc.  After dinner all finished and cabin all quiet my son asked for a glass of Coca Cola. Hostess didn't stop just just kept walking and yelled back at him 'go and ask in economy class'. Several registered letters to TG, no reply ever. At that time my consulting company was conducting an organizational project for TG. I mentioned the incident to a very snr. mngr, his response 'never mind' I'm sure it will be OK next time' and changed the subject.  

Another e.g. evening flight bus. class HK to Bkk, after meal finished a trolley on wheels* with buckets of ice, glasses, beer spirits placed at the front of Bus cabin then an announcement, 'TG now have a new policy, after dinner in Bus class all drinks are self service'. Passengers pressed the service button, no response; old Thai lady went to the galley and staff refused to let her get past the curtain but eventually she got a view of the activity - they were have a birthday party. (*trolley with wheels left unattended breaking operational rules.)

 

[PatOngo]

Passenger numbers must be soaring! ????

[mr mr]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

THAI insists rehab plan on track

 

no it's not. just stop it.

[mtls2005]

At this point it might be simpler and less expensive to just start a new airline, I mean the THAI brand is not exactly a shining bit of smooth silk anymore.

 

Pay off the debtors with some cash, and stock in the new airline.

 

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

3 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

I wouldn't have allowed an extension until I had seen what they had been doing for the last 4 months first

Losing billions more every month.

 

The debt must be close to THB400billion now surely?

 

Put a fork in it, it's done.

[Sydebolle]

While all sort of LCC (low cost carriers) are flying in and out of Bangkok's two airports I even found a Vietnamese-owned (Thai operated) LCC; Thaivietjet.

Their aircraft are registered in Thailand, the crew is Thai but the plane was initially flown in Vietnam and the head office of this carrier is in Hanoi. 
 

Unclear to me is; the national carrier is sitting like a dead duck for almost a year on the ground (see photo taken at Suvannaphum 4 January 2021) while all those LCCs, Thai- and foreign owned, operate a skeleton of a timetable which brings in some cash and keeps their crews flying. Latter is important for particularly the cockpit crew to keep their international licenses to fly - they need a minimum of flying hours per month/year and this is more than questionable. 

I assume that, when time is right, the airline is declared bankrupt "due to Covid", the assets are brought into a new company structure at bargain prices and all those culprits who brought this once wonderful airline do its knees ...... walk. Thai Airways was like a 7/11 without a cashier at the exit and that broke the airline's back - nothing else. Hence now it is "cover up" and ensure, that all those corrupt thieves are getting away - me thinks!

 

[mtls2005]

11 minutes ago, Sydebolle said:

see photo taken at Suvannaphum 4 January 2021

 

Future fixtures at entertainment parks.

 

Where former cabin staff can whip up fried dough.

 

 

[soi3eddie]

 

Surprised to see no mention of how much cash they generated when they sold the 34 auctioned planes?

 

[hotchilli]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

THAI insists rehab plan on track

Their plan yes... but is that plan agreeable for all parties involved?

[scorecard]

35 minutes ago, soi3eddie said:

 

Surprised to see no mention of how much cash they generated when they sold the 34 auctioned planes?

 

Didn't know they had been sold. Yes, interesting what price they achieved. 

[mtls2005]

59 minutes ago, soi3eddie said:

 

Surprised to see no mention of how much cash they generated when they sold the 34 auctioned planes?

 

 

Not sure they've actually sold any.

 

And the current shelf has 42 items for sale.

 

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/98373-thai-airways-puts-more-aircraft-up-for-sale-including-a380s

[jaiyen]

2 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

At this point it might be simpler and less expensive to just start a new airline, I mean the THAI brand is not exactly a shining bit of smooth silk anymore.

 

Pay off the debtors with some cash, and stock in the new airline.

 

 

Greta idea !  The problem is paying off the debtors. A 380 pilot friend of mine told me how much it costs for a plane to fly in stay overnight and fly out again. You would be amazed how expensive it is. Thai must owe millions of dollars to airports and all the companies that make, what we take for granted, actually happen smoothly. I was amazed how many companies are involved in the whole process e.g. food, cleaning, fuel, loading and unloading, security, maintenance and inspections, ticketing, and the list goes on, many that you would never guess.  Thai have also planned on stopping dirct flights to Perth. Thats us screwed !  This route makes money !

[trainman34014]

We all know a 'closure' plan would make a lot more sense; everything that's going on now is just a massive 'face saving' operation and  trying to save ways to keep all the free perks to continue.

[StevieAus]

5 hours ago, scorecard said:

Similar, for about 12 years I flew Bkk to many regional cities, 2 to 4 times a week, mostly day trips, progressively their booking and check-in service went downhill, and their cabin service became disgraceful and often just rude. One example, my 18 yo old son on holidays flew with me Bkk to Jakarta business class. His ticket (paid by me) was the most expensive ticket class because his ticket had to match mine with total flexibility to continuously change flight/ dates etc.  After dinner all finished and cabin all quiet my son asked for a glass of Coca Cola. Hostess didn't stop just just kept walking and yelled back at him 'go and ask in economy class'. Several registered letters to TG, no reply ever. At that time my consulting company was conducting an organizational project for TG. I mentioned the incident to a very snr. mngr, his response 'never mind' I'm sure it will be OK next time' and changed the subject.  

Another e.g. evening flight bus. class HK to Bkk, after meal finished a trolley on wheels* with buckets of ice, glasses, beer spirits placed at the front of Bus cabin then an announcement, 'TG now have a new policy, after dinner in Bus class all drinks are self service'. Passengers pressed the service button, no response; old Thai lady went to the galley and staff refused to let her get past the curtain but eventually she got a view of the activity - they were have a birthday party. (*trolley with wheels left unattended breaking operational rules.)

 

I have spoken to others with similar experiences.

We used to fly internationally business class with them for years until about ten years ago.

Checking in at Bangkok for a flight to Sydney I was told my booking but not my wife’s had been cancelled. No explanation and a couldn’t care less attitude.

Strange considering we had reconfirmed at the office in Chiang Mai the day before.

After strongly telling them I had a business to run in Sydney and wasn’t leaving my Thai wife behind we were told to return at 8am about 2 hours later

The desk was unmanned but there was an envelope in my name containing two boarding cards.

Despite several emails I never received an explanation and have never flown with them again.

There are plenty of airlines providing, better service, better food, newer and more comfortable aircraft with better seating all at a better price.

 

[natway09]

Not quite true that Thai have been operating no flights

Sydney every Sunday that I know of (Ticketing arranged thru Oz Embassy), & I 

am sure there must be others.

I would not wish to be running ANY airline at present unless from the Middle East where

any form of budgeting does not seem to matter, just "wave the flag"

[scorecard]

31 minutes ago, StevieAus said:

I have spoken to others with similar experiences.

We used to fly internationally business class with them for years until about ten years ago.

Checking in at Bangkok for a flight to Sydney I was told my booking but not my wife’s had been cancelled. No explanation and a couldn’t care less attitude.

Strange considering we had reconfirmed at the office in Chiang Mai the day before.

After strongly telling them I had a business to run in Sydney and wasn’t leaving my Thai wife behind we were told to return at 8am about 2 hours later

The desk was unmanned but there was an envelope in my name containing two boarding cards.

Despite several emails I never received an explanation and have never flown with them again.

There are plenty of airlines providing, better service, better food, newer and more comfortable aircraft with better seating all at a better price.

 

You mentioned CM. About 18 months ago I was home in CM, I got a call to very quickly get to Bkk for a meeting, and return to CM same day.

 

I quickly made myself presentable and ran to CM airport. Swampy is not too far from my meeting location, So I ran straight to the THAI sales office at the airport. One mid aged man and and 2 mid aged ladies sitting behind the desk.

 

Nobody attempted to ask what I wanted so I said 'please tell me the departure time for the next flight and the fare?'

 

The man said 'WAIT' then said 'I'm talking to my staff'. I said 'sorry I need to get on the next flight'. The man then said 'go and look it up on the website'. I froze. then one of the women repeated 'go and look it up on the website.' The other woman then added 'what else do you want'.

 

I ran to the VietJet Air desk and took their next flight to Swampy.

 

A year earlier I flew to Ho Chi Minh from CM on Lion Air and returned 10 days later. On arrival in CM I waited at the international luggage area for my suitcase but it didn't come. I walked over to a small Thai desk in the luggage carousel area, one older man in attendance. I asked 'can you tell me if I pick up international luggage from Lion Air here or at another location?

 

He pointed to a large TG logo on the wall above his desk and asked 'Can you read, this is Thai not Lion air, have some respect'. My passport had been stamped so I went to the Lion Air kiosk and asked, the young lady said from Ho Chi Minh you pick up your luggage at the domestic carousel, and I did.

 

Service with a smile - Thai Smile. 

 

 

 

[Heng]

Bangkok Airways for national carrier.  The family (Prasarttong-Osoth) behind that brand actually understands how to turn a profit.   

[scorecard]

5 minutes ago, natway09 said:

Not quite true that Thai have been operating no flights

Sydney every Sunday that I know of (Ticketing arranged thru Oz Embassy), & I 

am sure there must be others.

I would not wish to be running ANY airline at present unless from the Middle East where

any form of budgeting does not seem to matter, just "wave the flag"

Yes, repatriation flights Bkk to Sydney. Thai and OZ embassy decide who can join the flight, the passengers get an e.mail and have to pay direct to TG. Not enough passengers the flight is cancelled. Expensive tickets.

[Burma Bill]

9 hours ago, webfact said:

rehabilitation plan is progressing

 

[soi3eddie]

5 hours ago, soi3eddie said:

 

Surprised to see no mention of how much cash they generated when they sold the 34 auctioned planes?

 

 

 

4 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

 

Not sure they've actually sold any.

 

And the current shelf has 42 items for sale.

 

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/98373-thai-airways-puts-more-aircraft-up-for-sale-including-a380s

 

From The Nation on 6th November 2020:

"Most of the aircraft have on average been used for more than 20 years and do not have insurance. THAI expects the aircraft to be sold by November 13." Link: https://www.nationthailand.com/news/30397456

 

Suppose they must mean November 13th or some future year unspecified. My prediction is that they'll never sell any of these old planes at any price. Zero market for them. Would have thought that the 747's may have been attractive for cargo conversion though.

 

[Lambou69]

Bulloney

[bangkok19]

17 hours ago, jaiyen said:

Greta idea !  The problem is paying off the debtors. A 380 pilot friend of mine told me how much it costs for a plane to fly in stay overnight and fly out again. You would be amazed how expensive it is. Thai must owe millions of dollars to airports and all the companies that make, what we take for granted, actually happen smoothly. I was amazed how many companies are involved in the whole process e.g. food, cleaning, fuel, loading and unloading, security, maintenance and inspections, ticketing, and the list goes on, many that you would never guess.  Thai have also planned on stopping dirct flights to Perth. Thats us screwed !  This route makes money !

I stopped flying with THAI (International) (Business Class) from SYD to BKK about 8 years ago...   Emirates tickets were AUD$ 1,200 cheaper PLUS you had the Limmo pick you up and drop you off..  plus the BAR on the plane. 

SADLY... in June 2019, EMIRATES stopped the SYD to BKK route (instead,  seating you on a Qantas plane).

I'm not a big QF fan!

Booked again with THAI to go last year but then came COVID!  I have two 'open' business tickets now and just have to play the waiting game.

If anything good is to come out of all this...  at least TG have gotten rid of the ageing 747's that were past their "use by date."

 

Actually, for all the years I flew with TG  (30 yrs) I never had a problem with them.

I always enjoyed their Business Class service...   until I flew Emirates!   Their service and planes compared with TG - chalk and cheese!

 

Who knows..   maybe if TG has LESS FLIGHTS out of Sydney (whenever?) then maybe EMIRATES will resume the SYD - BKK route.

One can only hope.

[GinBoy2]

Well reports in the aviation news is that they are having trouble coming to agreement with their creditors on restructuring, and remember essentially that means the creditors accepting to take a haircut on their outstanding debt.

 

I don't think people sometimes comprehend how indebted TG is.

 

The nature of Thai Airways’ $11B debt is complex, with banks, aircraft lessors, lenders, and suppliers all looking for a satisfactory outcome. This is after all the second most indebted airline in the world, and thats overwhelming faced with the fact it's a pretty small airline in terms of revenue.

 

Creditors need to be convinced that if they do take a haircut, the new TG has a fighting chance of repaying the rest, and given TG's recent performance over the past decade or so, that would make me think twice. 

 

Failing that, it's back to asset seizures