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House impeaches Trump after U.S. Capitol siege; his fate in Senate hands


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Looks like at least his speech writer is worried:

 

 

Too little, too late IMO and should have dropped the social media part.

 

Edited by Salerno
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10 courageous republicans willing to put country and dare I say their political careers on the line kudos true patriots well he’s been charged twice now let’s get this epic failure of a president conv

Unfortunately, Democrats won what they were trying to win. It was a horrible slugfest as predicted from the very beginning, and they narrowly squeaked out their goal. Right or wrong, they got it. 

It's nice to see you accepting the situation with equanimity.  It's just a shame that so many Republican voters and lawmakers were unable to accept this back in November when it was more than clear th

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1 hour ago, cmarshall said:

It seems pretty clear that the point of impeachment is removal from office.  A former president cannot be removed from office and is therefore not subject to impeachment.

 

Therefore, if the Senate goes ahead and tries Trump after Jan. 20 and if, big "If," they can muster a two thirds vote in the Senate to convict, I expect a court will subsequently overturn the conviction.

Not sure if the courts would intervene with this political process.  This is not a criminal or civil trial but a political one.  The rules of evidence and due process is not the same.  Having said that, a 2/3 majority is still a high bar.  If the senate manages to convict, it would be huge message to the GOP.  It all depends on the political winds during the trial. 

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1 minute ago, FritsSikkink said:

You think wrong:

1) Trump is already impeached

2) Removing him from office which need 2/3 off the senate has indeed not much effect as he will be leaving anyway BUT the senate can decide to punish him by not allowing him to have a public office ever again. This would only need a normal majority vote which the Democrats will have soon.

 

So it will be goodbye to Trump and he will never be allowed to run again. He or Pence can't clear him from ant state prosecutions, so public citizen Trump will have a lot of court cases coming this year. One of them being from the Deutche bank who will either get paid in full for the hundreds of millions he borrowed or will foreclose on his properties.

 

 

The impeachment is entirely constitutional, but conducting a Senate trial after he has left office is not.  If the Senate does conduct such a trial and if they get a conviction and if they then vote to disqualify him from holding office in the future, that decision is likely to be overturned by the Supreme Court.  

 

The Senate could try him and impose such a penalty before Jan 20, but McConnell has cannily prevented that course of action.  

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8 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

Not sure if the courts would intervene with this political process.  This is not a criminal or civil trial but a political one.  The rules of evidence and due process is not the same.  Having said that, a 2/3 majority is still a high bar.  If the senate manages to convict, it would be huge message to the GOP.  It all depends on the political winds during the trial. 

 

If Senate convicted Trump after he left office and disqualified him from future office, Trump would test that in court claiming that he was unconstitutionally deprived of his right to run for office.  The Supreme Court would certainly take the case.

 

There were only ten Republican members of Congress who voted not impeach while there were 140 who signed on to the court case that tried to overturn the legitimate vote.  We have not turned the corner.  Just as in the Access Hollywood case the early opinions that Trump's actions had doomed him may not turn out to be the case.

 

It's quite possible that rather feeling disgraced by their failed coup, the Trumpites will be energized by their near success.

 

Edited by cmarshall
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12 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

The Senate could try him and impose such a penalty before Jan 20, but McConnell has cannily prevented that course of action.  

 

Or is he just waiting to see what way the wind is blowing for a day or two of being impeached (bombing past week https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/)? IMO it's too good an opportunity to get the albatross from around their neck to pass up for the Reps.

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4 minutes ago, Salerno said:

 

Or is he just waiting to see what way the wind is blowing for a day or two of being impeached (bombing past week https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/)? IMO it's too good an opportunity to get the albatross from around their neck to pass up for the Reps.

 

We could have hoped that was McConnell's intention, but it's clearly not.  Despite the remarks attributed to him, but not spoken in public, McConnell isn't lifting a finger to remove Trump, which it is entirely within his sole power to accomplish.  Instead he dumps the Senate trial in Schumer's lap where it will waste time and suck oxygen out of the the first hundred days of Biden's term and is certain to achieve exactly nothing.  

 

The only hope for retribution for Trump is that he does not get a pardon from Pence somehow and then Biden's Attorney General prosecutes him.  Even if he has self-pardoned such a prosecution is likely to succeed.  

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If I read this correctly, even if the impeachment proceeds are successfully challenged in court, it still leaves trump subject to  charges and prosecution for inserection in the legal system   after he leaves office. 

"Trump Could Face Prosecution for Inciting Capitol Riot After Leaving Office, D.C. AG Suggests "

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-could-face-prosecution-inciting-capitol-riot-after-leaving-office-dc-ag-suggests-1560628

if that is the case he can be removed under the provisions of the 14th amendment , section 3

"

Section 3
 

No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

"

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxiv

Edited by sirineou
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