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What would be the purpose of a "vaccine passport"?


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Given what the makers of the two well-known vaccines have said about having no idea if vaccines will prevent infections or stop transmissions, what is the purpose of showing some certificate of vaccination when all that achieves, to a certain percentage efficacy, is preventing clinical disease?

Isn't Thailand, and other nations, under the misunderstanding that a vaccinated person is "safe" to reenter society, ie, they can't infect others? There has been a sort of folk mantra of, "Once we get the vaccine, we can start to get back to normal." According to the statements below by the very people who know best, this seems diametrically opposed to the facts on the ground. 

 

Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla:

 

"In an interview last month with NBC’s Lester Holt, Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla acknowledged he didn’t know if the BNT162b2 vaccine would prevent the spread of the SARS-CoV-2 virus. “I think this is something that needs to be examined. We are not certain about that right now with what we know,” Bourla said."

 

Moderna’s chief medical officer, Tal Zaks, MD:

 

'In an interview with Axios on Nov. 23, Dr. Zaks noted, “When we start the deployment of [the mRNA-1273] vaccine, we will not have sufficient concrete data to prove that this vaccine reduces transmission.”'

 

Anthony Fauci, MD, director of the U.S. National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID):

 

"... the primary endpoint of most of the [vaccines] is to prevent clinical disease, to prevent symptomatic disease. Not necessarily to prevent infection… that’s a secondary endpoint. But the primary thing you want to do is that if people get infected—prevent them from getting sick. And if you prevent them from getting sick, you will ultimately prevent them from getting seriously ill. So that’s what we want to do....If the vaccine also allows you to prevent initial infection, that would be great. But what I would settle for, and all of my colleagues would settle for, is the primary endpoint—to prevent clinically recognizable disease. And that’s what we hope happens."

 

**** What has been measured in the trials on the BNT162b2 and mRNA-1273 vaccines, as well as other experimental COVID-19 vaccines, is not whether they prevent infection with and transmission of the SARS-CoV-2 virus but how well they can prevent or minimize symptoms of COVID-19 disease that can be caused by the virus. There is no evidence to suggest the vaccines will have any effect in terms of protecting people from getting the virus and spreading it.

 

-- No-evidence-covid-19-vaccines-will-block-spread-of-coronavirus

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It won't block but will reduce the spread of the disease, thus allowing the health service to cope.

A lot more people will be dying from Strawberry allergies, or tripping over their slippers or falling out of their beds....    But, the very few out of the billions who have a complications

We are at the mercy of our government if we choose to follow that path. 

15 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

A vaccine which is 95% effective ensures that the vast majority (95%) of SARS-CoV-2 carriers have no symptoms and thus do not, cough, sneeze as readily and thus do not contribute to the spread of SARS-CoV-2 as significantly as those with symptoms. 

This seems a reasonable assumption. But this hasn't been established:

3 hours ago, Trujillo said:

What has been measured in the trials on the BNT162b2 and mRNA-1273 vaccines, as well as other experimental COVID-19 vaccines, is not whether they prevent infection with and transmission of the SARS-CoV-2 but how well they can prevent or minimize symptoms of COVID-19 disease...

I suspect that's the answer to:

 

3 hours ago, Trujillo said:

what is the purpose of showing some certificate of vaccination

ie vaccination certification is based on the reasonable assumption that vaccination reduces transmission significantly, but this effect simply hasn't been measured yet.

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17 minutes ago, onebir said:

This seems a reasonable assumption. But this hasn't been established:

I suspect that's the answer to:

 

ie vaccination certification is based on the reasonable assumption that vaccination reduces transmission significantly, but this effect simply hasn't been measured yet.

 

It doesn’t need to be measured - its common sense. 

 

Someone who coughs and sneezes less is going to spread ‘whatever is within their respiratory system' less than someone who sneezes and coughs more often.... 

 

 

 

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Surely the vaccines will help. Help improve a terrible situation for many. At this moment let's not celebrate, of course, but at least be positive and pray and hope that things will get better.

 

The vaccines do have an effect and the stronger that is the better. We all need a break for sure lest many will simply starve.

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18 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

It doesn’t need to be measured - its common sense. 

 

Someone who coughs and sneezes less is going to spread ‘whatever is within their respiratory system' less than someone who sneezes and coughs more often.... 

 

 

 

Don't agree I have hay fever and sneeze all day I also cough many times having been a smoker

for many years

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From what I understand, the vaccines will protect you from the worst symptoms of the virus thereby helping health services around the globe from being inundated, you may well get Ill, but hopefully won't die from it, unlike my brother last Saturday 😥😥😥

 

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4 hours ago, Trujillo said:

Given what the makers of the two well-known vaccines have said about having no idea if vaccines will prevent infections or stop transmissions, what is the purpose of showing some certificate of vaccination when all that achieves, to a certain percentage efficacy, is preventing clinical disease?

where did you get the idea that they have "no idea if the vaccine will prevent infections"

I give up presenting facts ,Below is what the US CDC has to say about the benefits of the covid 19 vaccine. 

If you are really interested read what the CDC has to say in the below link, updated January 5. 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/vaccine-benefits.html

 

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1 hour ago, Meat Pie 47 said:
1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

It doesn’t need to be measured - its common sense. 

 

Someone who coughs and sneezes less is going to spread ‘whatever is within their respiratory system' less than someone who sneezes and coughs more often.... 

 

 

 

Expand  

Don't agree I have hay fever and sneeze all day I also cough many times having been a smoker

for many years

 

Even more reason for you to be vaccinated - your viral load would be reduced and you’d be carrying SARS-CoV-2 for a shorter period of time than if you had not been vaccinated and have symptoms... 

 

Additionally, your comment (your condition) is hardly representative of the average person. Thus suggesting vaccination is not necessary as it doesn’t prevent ‘you’ from sneezing all day is wholly irrelevant, vaccination is an aggregate response for the general benefit of society on a whole. 

 

 

Thus: in your attempt to contradict a single point, you’ve lost sight of a general picture. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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The idea of a "vaccination passport" was bounced around long before the results of the vaccine tests were known.

 

There was talk of requiring one as a condition of getting on an airplane, or other long distance transport- trains and buses.  I had visions of private businesses requiring one as a condition of entering their premises,  and employers requiring one as a condition of showing up at the office to work.  But I lean toward wingnut stuff.

 

It will be interesting to see how that morphs now that it appears the vaccine isn't 100% effective, doesn't actually prevent the disease, doesn't so much prevent the spread, and may (or may not) only last a few months.

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2 hours ago, CobraSnakeNecktie said:

Hopefully those reading have heard of Agenda 21? 

 

They are telling us the two shots should be administered 21 days apart.

 

A couple of months prior to 'outbreak' was Johns Hopkins Event 201 with Bill Gates Foundation that was corona virus exercise.

 

 

 

Careful... they probably are chasing you !!! 🕵️‍♀️

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3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Even more reason for you to be vaccinated - your viral load would be reduced and you’d be carrying SARS-CoV-2 for a shorter period of time than if you had not been vaccinated and have symptoms... 

 

Additionally, your comment (your condition) is hardly representative of the average person. Thus suggesting vaccination is not necessary as it doesn’t prevent ‘you’ from sneezing all day is wholly irrelevant, vaccination is an aggregate response for the general benefit of society on a whole. 

 

 

Thus: in your attempt to contradict a single point, you’ve lost sight of a general picture. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Another thing that people fail to consider is that the reduced ability of vaccinated people to transmite, becomes even further reduced as those around them also become vaccinated thus also reducing the availability of easy hosts.

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5 hours ago, Golden Triangle said:

From what I understand, the vaccines will protect you from the worst symptoms of the virus thereby helping health services around the globe from being inundated, you may well get Ill, but hopefully won't die from it, unlike my brother last Saturday 😥😥😥

 

Sorry for your loss,there are now reports of issues being raised in Norway who are investigating 23 deaths in elderly after being vaccinated who are now recommending caution when vaccinating.

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