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Should covid liars and deniers be punished or blocked ?


robblok

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44 minutes ago, robblok said:
49 minutes ago, Poet said:


Well, now, as it happens, neither of those things are true, so, are you not yourself guilty of spreading false news when it suits you?

 

I already retracted it, and admitted i was wrong. Its just that there are a lot of people on this forum with anti German feelings. Usually the older UK crowd. Just assumed it was one of those. 

 

But you actually had a good point so i retract what is say. Was well reasoned.

 

now this is what we need a heck a lot more of. very impressive robblok. ????

 

thank you two for this.

 

edit...after reading the later comments it got even better between you two.  

Edited by mr mr
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1 hour ago, Poet said:


As a Dutchman, the slippery slope you need to worry about when you start feeling the urge to control the speech of others is that you might wake up as a German.
 

Germans don't allow lies about the holocaust. Is that bad?

As far as I know there are also other lies which are not allowed in many countries like shouting "fire" without good reason.

Obviously there are some issues were it's not so easy to establish the truth. But there are many things, like covid, which without doubt exist and people who deny it are liars.

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49 minutes ago, Poet said:

 We need to once again develop the moral strength to tolerate new ideas and different opinions.

Agreed.  As long as it doesn't impact the health and welfare of others.  CV19 deniers and anti-vaxx'ers do this.  They should not be tolerated.  And are not here in Thailand and other countries as well.

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6 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Germans don't allow lies about the holocaust. Is that bad?

As far as I know there are also other lies which are not allowed in many countries like shouting "fire" without good reason.

Obviously there are some issues were it's not so easy to establish the truth. But there are many things, like covid, which without doubt exist and people who deny it are liars.

Actually, you can yell fire in a movie theater.  As long as nobody is hurt, you can't be arrested.  That was a supreme court ruling years ago.  But, here's what you can't say, in the US.

 

https://www.freedomforuminstitute.org/about/faq/which-types-of-speech-are-not-protected-by-the-first-amendment/

 

Quote

 

Although different scholars view unprotected speech in different ways, there are basically nine categories:

  • Obscenity
  • Fighting words
  • Defamation (including libel and slander)
  • Child pornography
  • Perjury
  • Blackmail
  • Incitement to imminent lawless action
  • True threats
  • Solicitations to commit crimes

Some experts also would add treason, if committed verbally, to that list. Plagiarism of copyrighted material is also not protected.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Salerno said:

 

Which is all well and good until it becomes dangerous, which is the point behind the OP I believe. 

I agree, and so when it does become dangerous there are already laws in place to take action,and the arduous process of gaining a conviction and enforcing penalties takes place.

Edited by FarFlungFalang
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7 minutes ago, Poet said:


I'm confused. You agreed with my statement that "we need to once again develop the moral strength to tolerate new ideas and different opinions" but, then, go on to specify two sets of belief that should not be tolerated.

I am saying we should tolerate the new ideas and different opinions ... even when we don't agree with them. That's sort of the whole point ????

 

If that new idea and different opinion impacts the health and well being of others, then it shouldn't be allowed.  I'm specifically referring to anti-vaxx'ers.  Who cling on to fake news and spread lies and misinformation.  Which has been proven to result in deaths.

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10 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

I agree, and so when it does become dangerous there are already laws in place to take action,and the arduous process of gaining a conviction and enforcing penalties takes place.

 

What laws cover "they stole the election" or "covid is a scam" or "vaccines are all part of the plan to take over the world" or numerous other conspiracy BS that gained traction amongst a certain demograph around the world recently?

 

If someone is convinced they never landed on the moon or the earth is flat who really cares, some conspiracy theories are good for a laugh, others have a certain level of plausibility but some are downright dangerous to health and the world as we know it.

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8 minutes ago, cdemundo said:

That is the problem, are there facts and truths, or is everything simply matter of opinion?

Most people would say there are facts and truths but how to determine the truth?

 

 

In case of what i read the truth is easy. Just go to a hospital find some covid patients and then its the truth that there are patients and what this guy 80 year old homeopathic doctor said an outright lie. But i agree often its much harder to determine.

 

But its scare that even these kind of guys get a platform. Thankfully this came in the news and people responded shocked.

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1 minute ago, robblok said:

In case of what i read the truth is easy. Just go to a hospital find some covid patients and then its the truth that there are patients and what this guy 80 year old homeopathpic doctor said an outright lie. But i agree often its much harder to determine.

 

But its scare that even these kind of guys get a platform. Thankfully this came in the news and people responded shocked.

I don't bring this up to argue with you.  The problem is complicated..

However, even when something can be easily proved to be false the law sometimes protects speech that is untrue (at least in the USA).  The US "Stolen Valor" act of 2005 made it a crime to falsely claim military service, honors, or rank.  The US Supreme Court declared the law a violation of Freedom of Speech.  A second "Stolen Valor" act of 2013 made such false claims a crime only if it was done "with the intention of obtaining money, property, or other tangible benefit."  Which apparently has not been considered a violation of freedom of speech.

I'm no lawyer, but I think most people would consider such false claims abhorrent and offensive for any reason, but under law they are protected.

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