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BTS: Cheap or expensive? Comparisons with foreign systems point to bad deal in Bangkok


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21 hours ago, DaLa said:

They forget to mention that the London underground is a huge con trick. You walk down some steps, then walk half a kilometre in a tunnel full of poor musicians. Finally you enter a large hall with antique one arm bandits  that don't give change. Then you travel for 5 minutes down an escalator, walk another 200 metres and wait for a train.

 

You get on that train and try not to look at anyone for 10 minutes, exit the train and walk another 200 metres to another escalator where you rise up to another platform and catch another train.

 

Repeat the last part and then walk another half kilometre through tunnels full of the other half of the band waiting to hit the big time. Not far now , just walk up 100 steps and you’re out on the street…...only 1 kilometre from where you started.

I found the 'tube' rather claustrophobic after growing up with far larger carriages. Wow! ... who needs a gym membership ????

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For average to poor Thais that's a lot to pay. I'm not sure if they have quarterly, half-yearly, yearly pass rates? Its been a few years since I used my Rabbit card, as a falang compared to Australian suburban travel costs I found it very affordable. I'll have to go online and check the rates and passes out again to familiarise. I used my Rabbit in the usual way i have for years, going a few stops here and there, and to the end of a few of the newer lines while in BKK town late last year.

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I found the BTS to be expensive even back in the day when I was living there. Even now when we visit the Mrs and I find it cheaper to take a taxi.

Where I am now it cost C$3.25 to ride the system. A single flat fare no matter the distance with a 2 hour transfer window that allows you to switch from buses, to subways to streetcars for no extra cost.

Kids under 12 years also ride for free.

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21 hours ago, soi3eddie said:

 

New York flat fare on it's subways is $2.75 (about 90 Baht) in one of  the most expensive cities in the world. A flat fare of say 30 Baht on BTS and MRT in Bangkok would seem fair for here.

 

Can I meet with you to exchange a quick $1000.00 right away? 

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22 hours ago, DaLa said:

They forget to mention that the London underground is a huge con trick. You walk down some steps, then walk half a kilometre in a tunnel full of poor musicians. Finally you enter a large hall with antique one arm bandits  that don't give change. Then you travel for 5 minutes down an escalator, walk another 200 metres and wait for a train.

 

You get on that train and try not to look at anyone for 10 minutes, exit the train and walk another 200 metres to another escalator where you rise up to another platform and catch another train.

 

Repeat the last part and then walk another half kilometre through tunnels full of the other half of the band waiting to hit the big time. Not far now , just walk up 100 steps and you’re out on the street…...only 1 kilometre from where you started.

You should have taken a bus.

Edited by brianthainess
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1 hour ago, Tropposurfer said:

I found the 'tube' rather claustrophobic after growing up with far larger carriages. Wow! ... who needs a gym membership ????

 They have different sizes. 

the-two-sizes-of-london-underground-trai

 

The older tunnels are small, as the system is 150 years old, so necessitate smaller trains. Additionally the original trains were a tight fit in the tunnels so as to act like pistons and push ventilation air with them as they travelled.

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2 hours ago, Benmart said:

This is Thailand. Perhaps vent on a UK blog.

Read the title again, you missed this bit. "Comparisons with foreign systems"

 

When making comparisons, everything should be taken into account, the point highlighted is no joking matter. Apart from the infrastructure, the London fare structure must be about the most non user friendly in the world.

 

 

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22 hours ago, DaLa said:

They forget to mention that the London underground is a huge con trick. You walk down some steps, then walk half a kilometre in a tunnel full of poor musicians. Finally you enter a large hall with antique one arm bandits  that don't give change. Then you travel for 5 minutes down an escalator, walk another 200 metres and wait for a train.

 

You get on that train and try not to look at anyone for 10 minutes, exit the train and walk another 200 metres to another escalator where you rise up to another platform and catch another train.

 

Repeat the last part and then walk another half kilometre through tunnels full of the other half of the band waiting to hit the big time. Not far now , just walk up 100 steps and you’re out on the street…...only 1 kilometre from where you started.

You forgot the lifts, but not sure if any still left.

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Some of the arguments that the BTS is expensive fall down when one  realises that the average Bangkok Thai travelling on the BTS earns more than the minimum wage.

 

15-20,000 baht per month salary is more representive for an office worker.

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Isn't the BTS privately owned? So they will charge as much as they can until ridership numbers drop off. And then being Thai they will increase the price to make up for lack of ridership!

 

Sadly the BTS is for the middle class. It started running up and down Sukhumvit to take shoppers to Emporium et al. Now it has spread its fingers outwards to bring the middle class into town for Siam Square/Paragon and Emquartier. 

 

If two people are travelling together often a taxi is cheaper. 

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1 hour ago, sandyf said:

the London fare structure must be about the most non user friendly in the world.

 

I don't live there but it gets cheaper after 9.30 so is good for Students, pensioners,tourists/ out-of-towners. et al.. 

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What they really need to introduce - in line of what's being offered pretty much all over the world - is a REAL monthly flat rate pass for ALL public transport in the Bangkok Metropolitan area.

 

Who cares about the price of a single trip journey (within reason)?

 

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22 hours ago, Estrada said:

The New York flat fare for a single ticket was $3.00 (B100), not $2.75 and similar to the BTS, its' fare will shortly be increased to $4.00 (B122). The fact is that that the New York Metro was built in 1904 and is aging considerably, consequently there have been 64 major accidents on the system. It does not have modern signaling systems on all its' system, like the BTS has. If there was a flat fare of B30 the whole system would be overcrowded and without any profit, the maintenance of the system would suffer and trains, stations etc would start falling apart with frequent breakdowns, the same as the BMTA buses and SRT trains. 

 

Would New Yorkers or Londoners expect to pay up to 30% of their daily wage for a train journey to work?
I don't think so.

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15 hours ago, madisongy said:

A very unique idea would be to have one lower rate for Thais and a different rate for farang.

 

There is already such a system in place. Back when I had my work permit before retiring, I was old enough for a BTS discount card. Couldn't get one. Not Thai. That's okay. Not complaining too much. But I haven't been on the BTS since Covid started. Feel safer in a taxi, and when I'm with my wife, the taxi for two is cheaper than two BTS tickets going and another two BTS tickets coming back (from Thawi Watthana to Siam or to Chaengwattna, i.e.).

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Key point is that the average office worker is paying approx 0.5% - 1% of their monthly income,

towards BTS transportation.

 

It is useless to compare BTS rates to other mass transit systems across the world,

without comparing average after-tax income.

 

Solutions:

 

- Subsidise BTS rates

- Charge per-zone rates and give tickets a period of validity i.e. not single use, 

but unlimited use within 1-3 hours 

 

Either of the two is never gonna happen, because it requires 'think too mutt'

and more importantly, investing in resources, that could dip into the precious mia-noi fund.

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On 1/23/2021 at 11:10 PM, John Drake said:

 

There is already such a system in place. Back when I had my work permit before retiring, I was old enough for a BTS discount card. Couldn't get one. Not Thai.

Try again.  I have a couple of friends that are both over age 70 and have lived in Bangkok for over 40 years.  They both have the BTS discount card that they got because of their age.  I think maybe their Thai wives helped them in getting the cards.

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How about investing to develope areas outside Bangkok so people don't have to travel in instead of spending too much money on transit systems people can't afford? Sounds like London and HS2 to me.

 

If Covid has taught us anything, it should be to decentralize and build self sufficient regions, not pack people like sardines on the commute and in one city.

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11 hours ago, Abmong said:

How about investing to develope areas outside Bangkok so people don't have to travel in instead of spending too much money on transit systems people can't afford? Sounds like London and HS2 to me.

 

If Covid has taught us anything, it should be to decentralize and build self sufficient regions, not pack people like sardines on the commute and in one city.

Ah brilliant - yeah, don't invest in mass transit and instead invest in a load of generic cliches about decentralising.

So come on then, how would you spend the mass transit money in "decentralising" and building "self sufficient regions" so we don't have to "pack people like sardines"?  What's going to move all of the offices, finance, business, and shopping centres out to Nakhon Pathom, Samut Prakan, Rangsit etc.  Would love to know.

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On 1/24/2021 at 10:24 AM, madmen said:

I'm on the gold coast Australia and the tram which only goes one way down the coast costs minimum $5 even for one stop. 

Sure the wages are higher but the cost of living is also very high. 

This is very misleading. 

 

The fare system of Translink encourages pax to use the netowrk wide stored value Go card rather than single journey cash "paper' tickets. Thus, your 'paper' ticket costs $4.90 but using your go card it costs $3.37 or only $2.70 offpeak to use the light rail. That is almost half the fare you stated. 

 

Gold Coast Link is wholly within Zone 5 so you are only ever paying a 1 Zone fare. https://translink.com.au/sites/default/files/assets/resources/plan-your-journey/maps/200106-seq-fare-zone.pdf

 

Now compared to a 2hr fare in Melb where you have some 250kms of tram lines and you can purchase a Zone 1 2hr ticket for $4.50 (or a daily for $9), then yes the Link is relatively expensive but that is usually the case with system that has only 1 line - albeit integrated with the suburban train and bus system.

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