Australia laments Thailand’s high wine tax as excise dept delivers bitter news

[Salerno]

9 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Australia might be right to (under WTO and/or free trade rules of engagement?) to retaliate against Thailand's alleged unreasonable higher wine import duty tax.

 

Not sure people should focus on Australia per se, acknowledging the article is about Australia, as this isn't a targeted tax as such. It's levied against all nations as I understand it.

 

Personally, I look at this as Australia needing to diversify exports due to the Chinese "economic coercion" blocking imports so the Ambassador is throwing it out there that the import tax is too high to see if we can get a bite. It's not exactly new that the import taxes are extortionate and I don't believe the timing is a coincidence.

 

Edited January 26, 2021 by Salerno

[spidermike007]

Wine tariffs here are dumb and dumber. No doubt the wine duty was about a small lobby, that paid a senator to pass anti farang wine legislation, to promote a handful of very inferior domestic wineries. A myopic policy, that staggers the imagination. To think of the hundreds of billions of baht the country is losing every year. If the duty was only 70%, or even 100%, the wine industry here would explode. It would benefit tourism, by attracting a far higher level of tourist, the ones the TAT is incessantly talking about wanting to attract!

 

The hotel industry, restaurants, and the people, and the ex-pats, could choose from good wine, at fair prices. As it stands now, a decent bottle here costs in excess of 1,000 baht. And at the restaurants, the prices of good wine is downright silly. I have seen house wines, that cost 1,500 baht, that are available in Los Angeles for $4. Good wines that I pay $30-40 for in LA, cost 6,000 baht here, if you can find them. And who is going to pay that kind of money for a wine that is 80% less overseas? It is a bit like an ignorant hi-so guy paying 15,000,000 baht for a Porsche 911 here, that cost $120,000 in the US.

I am very passionate about wine. I tend to drink wine that is in the $15-50 range, in the US. Some of these wines are simply stunning. Single vineyard pinot noirs, McLaren Shiraz, some outstanding wines from the Southern Rhone, like Chateauneuf, and Gigondas. Some very good ones for $30, to $50. Not cheap. But wines that inspire. I am not drinking to get loaded. I am drinking wine for inspiration, and exhilaration. Few of those wines are even available here, and if any can be found, they are $100 to $200. There is no way on earth I am going to spend that on a bottle of wine here. So, I tend not to drink wine here. Or the occasional decent bottle of Italian or Australian wine, that sets me back 1200 baht, and is decent at best.

These kind of regressive, closed minded, nationalistic, ignorant policies are what I would refer to as shooting oneself in one's foot. That is what the Thai government has done. They have sabotaged a potentially multi billion dollar industry, and denied themselves billions of dollars in duty, that we would be happy to pay, if the numbers made sense. You lower the duty to a reasonable level of 70%, you increase sales 8x, and you have more than made up for the difference, and added a million jobs, nationwide.

 

Oh, sorry. I forgot. Making sense, and using reason are not to be expected here, especially by members of this stunningly incompetent government, who have a hard time coming up with coherent and intelligent policy.

[Sametboy2019]

21 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Wine tariffs here are dumb and dumber. No doubt the wine duty was about a small lobby, that paid a senator to pass anti farang wine legislation, to promote a handful of very inferior domestic wineries. A myopic policy, that staggers the imagination. To think of the hundreds of billions of baht the country is losing every year. If the duty was only 70%, or even 100%, the wine industry here would explode. It would benefit tourism, by attracting a far higher level of tourist, the ones the TAT is incessantly talking about wanting to attract!

 

The hotel industry, restaurants, and the people, and the ex-pats, could choose from good wine, at fair prices. As it stands now, a decent bottle here costs in excess of 1,000 baht. And at the restaurants, the prices of good wine is downright silly. I have seen house wines, that cost 1,500 baht, that are available in Los Angeles for $4. Good wines that I pay $30-40 for in LA, cost 6,000 baht here, if you can find them. And who is going to pay that kind of money for a wine that is 80% less overseas? It is a bit like an ignorant hi-so guy paying 15,000,000 baht for a Porsche 911 here, that cost $120,000 in the US.

I am very passionate about wine. I tend to drink wine that is in the $15-50 range, in the US. Some of these wines are simply stunning. Single vineyard pinot noirs, McLaren Shiraz, some outstanding wines from the Southern Rhone, like Chateauneuf, and Gigondas. Some very good ones for $30, to $50. Not cheap. But wines that inspire. I am not drinking to get loaded. I am drinking wine for inspiration, and exhilaration. Few of those wines are even available here, and if any can be found, they are $100 to $200. There is no way on earth I am going to spend that on a bottle of wine here. So, I tend not to drink wine here. Or the occasional decent bottle of Italian or Australian wine, that sets me back 1200 baht, and is decent at best.

These kind of regressive, closed minded, nationalistic, ignorant policies are what I would refer to as shooting oneself in one's foot. That is what the Thai government has done. They have sabotaged a potentially multi billion dollar industry, and denied themselves billions of dollars in duty, that we would be happy to pay, if the numbers made sense. You lower the duty to a reasonable level of 70%, you increase sales 8x, and you have more than made up for the difference, and added a million jobs, nationwide.

 

Oh, sorry. I forgot. Making sense, and using reason are not to be expected here, especially by members of this stunningly incompetent government, who have a hard time coming up with coherent and intelligent policy.

Protecting their own <deleted> water and if wine was affordable the the hiso's FB and Instagram posts wouldnt look as impressive!

[Scott Tracy]

Free trade my <deleted>. It means nothing. 

[Pumpuynarak]

22 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

So, I tend not to drink wine here.

Bingo, i was a regular wine drinker here in Thailand until they increased the tax to a ridiculous level, now they can just shove it.

[bluebluewater]

ALWAYS one of first things I do when I return to the west is have a nice bottle of wine.  I do not drink a drop of it when I'm in Thailand.

[bloodyholly]

4 hours ago, PatOngo said:

Don't panic wino's, we have the cheap, healthy alternative!

 

And sponsored (?) by the govt thru tax breaks so I’ve been told

[GreasyFingers]

I expect that the Ambassador is not too concerned as he gets all of his wine tax free. So too the local representatives of the embassy.

[John Drake]

I stopped drinking wine and other alcohol four years ago. I don't miss it too much. It's the other imported products that has me growling. Australian and New Zealand goods are great quality. But the prices on things such as cheese and beef are pretty outrageous. Even the small mixing packets and condiments for American and Tex-Mex I buy now come through American firms located in Australia. And those are expensive, too: 120 baht for small jar of jalapenos, 100 baht for a small package of fajita mix.

[Camillof]

5 hours ago, Salerno said:

True, but it's somewhat ignoring the two free trade agreements Australia and Thailand can take advantage of

 

My impression is that the big importers and national distribution chains who monopolize the consumers' market in this country swallow up for themselves all of the benefit resulting from those agreements, without leaving a crumb of it to the end consumer. And NOBODY complains except some of us foreigners.

[indieke]

Wine lovers of good decent products, are not like heavy beerdrinkers.  So the tax makes us buy unhealthy cheap stuff, that we would not even think about drinking at home.  Honestly, it is part of a lifestyle. I would go back to my home country  only for that.

 

But then they tax more on my income, my house and everything else......

[Phuket Stan]

Wasn't the high tax on wine etc the result of the 1997 crash

 

[Dart12]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

Or the occasional decent bottle of Italian or Australian wine, that sets me back 1200 baht, and is decent at best.

 

Please name those brands.  

I pretty much quit wine here when  yes, $4 wine at home is $50 here.

And if there is no tax on 'cheap" wine...why is stuff like yellowtail 1500 bt ish?

[Isaan sailor]

Perhaps the high wine taxes in place to encourage us to buy and drink local Thai wines.  If Thai wines are so good, why don’t they export them?

[zig]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

There is no way on earth I am going to spend that on a bottle of wine here. So, I tend not to drink wine here. Or the occasional decent bottle of Italian or Australian wine, that sets me back 1200 baht, and is decent at best.

 

Same here. I enjoy some wine often when visiting my home country but limit my consumption to a few bottles a year in Thailand. The prices are just ridiculously high. 

[Salerno]

1 minute ago, Isaan sailor said:

If Thai wines are so good, why don’t they export them?

 

Shipping costs; they wouldn't be able to compete with the price of the existing paint stripper in the destination country.

[Virt]

Wine are ridiculously expensive in Thailand. 

A wine I can buy here in Denmark for the equivalent of 200 baht is 750 baht in Thailand. Exact same brand and vintage. 

Just an ordinary drinking wine, nothing special. 

 

Even Peter Vella which I understand is Australian wine mixed with local Thai wines is priced way to high. 

 

They want us to drink Mont Clair all day long or what ????

 

[tgw]

Just now, Isaan sailor said:

Perhaps the high wine taxes in place to encourage us to buy and drink local Thai wines.  If Thai wines are so good, why don’t they export them?

 

actually I tasted some local wines at Silverlake. I don't remember how many there were available for tasting, I think 6 or 8, and in my opinion one was drinkable and another one even a bit better.

then I asked about the prices, the drinkable one was around 900 baht, the better one 1400 or something, might have been 1800.

 

I wouldn't mind spending around 300 baht for an enjoyable (obviously not top-quality) bottle every now and then, but these prices are just BS.

 

If they want to solve their alcohol problems, they should up taxes on the cheap lao khao stuff, and make wine more accessible.

 

I see Thai wine made from Australian grapes in the shops, is it drinkable?

Is there any Thai wine that is drinkable and at reasonable prices?

[casey1]

2 hours ago, John Drake said:

I stopped drinking wine and other alcohol four years ago. I don't miss it too much. It's the other imported products that has me growling. Australian and New Zealand goods are great quality. But the prices on things such as cheese and beef are pretty outrageous. Even the small mixing packets and condiments for American and Tex-Mex I buy now come through American firms located in Australia. And those are expensive, too: 120 baht for small jar of jalapenos, 100 baht for a small package of fajita mix.

The problem with New Zealand products is that they are expensive to start with, and ain't no way you going to get those products cheaper unless someone is being ripped...producer, nz consumer, or here the thai consumer take your pick I can give you clear examples

[Mr Meeseeks]

I love a good wine but I mostly refuse to drink wine in Thailand, not contributing more tax than I already do to their coffers.

 

It's not properly transported or stored here either, so in addition to being stiffed with ridiculous taxes the product is often substandard or has degraded. 

 

No thanks.

[ben2talk]

Imported goods in general are viewed as 'unnecessary' and only fit for consumption by people with more money than sense.

 

All trade here should go through the super rich ruling families and grant them huge profits - it's what feudalism's all about surely?

 

The biggest problem is one we experienced with the pressure in the UK to buy British cars at a time when British cars were probably the worst in the world - the world moves on whilst the regime still thinks that everyone should live off local farm produce. 

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, tgw said:

If they want to solve their alcohol problems, they should up taxes on the cheap lao khao stuff, and make wine more accessible.

 

Now that's a solution that definitely won't work. If they were to up the tax on lao khoa, which would of course hammer the lowest income groups, they would revert to making it at home, as they used to. (and some still do I'm told)

 

There's a reason why the tax is so low. It's either that or no tax and another health hazard to deal with.

[sanuk711]

3 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

 So, I tend not to drink wine here.

I also tend not to go out for a decent western meal very often now---Whats the point of going to a good Italian/French restaurant and having the drink option as--Beer--Spirits--Alcoholic Fruit juice--- or if they do have a decent wine, a check bin higher than all the entire meals.

[Colabamumbai]

Been here 11 years now, never saw a Thai drinking wine except for the wife and she doesn't wine. 

[rickudon]

Eight years ago here I used to buy a few bottles of wine every year, it wasn't cheap, a little bit more than it was in the UK (not known for cheap wine compared to the rest of Europe). I knew about 4 other farang who used to enjoy a bottle also. I don't know anyone who buys wine anymore, prices are just stupid. 

What i find ridiculous is that I can buy a bottle of genuine scotch whisky for less than the cheapest wine here. So it is ridiculous to claim that the duty on wine is to stop alcoholism.

 

Spy is pretty disgusting as an alternative. I have found Full Moon to be somewhat superior. 

[Meat Pie 47]

3 hours ago, Dart12 said:

Please name those brands.  

I pretty much quit wine here when  yes, $4 wine at home is $50 here.

And if there is no tax on 'cheap" wine...why is stuff like yellowtail 1500 bt ish?

This is what I pay in OZ for 4 liters 13 AUD less than 300 baht

 

Edited January 26, 2021 by Meat Pie 47

[RickG16]

3 hours ago, indieke said:

 So the tax makes us buy unhealthy cheap stuff, that we would not even think about drinking at home. 

Off topic but is bad / cheap wine necessarily unhealthier than good wine? 

[xylophone]

8 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

They should just send grape juice here and Thais can add there own alcohol. They do it already for locally produced "wine" 

Actually that does happen now (but no alcohol added), and I have just bought a bottle of Langhorne Creek Shiraz (Oz) for 525 baht, BUT it would appear that it is grape juice sourced from Langhorne Creek and imported by Montclair, and fermented here in Thailand (without the addition of any fruit) and it drinks very well.

 

True, Australian wines seem to be taxed highly, however if one looks, there are some bargains out there, and they are not "bottom drawer wines" either. One of my favourite Aussie drinkers at the moment is "Hopes End" and it is a very well-made wine made from a blend of Shiraz 49%, Grenache 30%, Malbec 14% and Petit Verdot 7%, from South Australia........and I pay 450 baht a bottle for it.

 

I buy around 300 bottles of wine a year for my consumption, so have got to know prices and where the best prices are, and sometimes there are specials in supermarkets and other shops which are worth snapping up.

 

I look for wines around 400 to 550 baht a bottle, and occasionally go outside of that when I am looking at some decent Italian wines (an Appassimento for example) by way of a change.

 

I don't think the Thai government is too worried about our moaning regarding the wine prices, so it behoves wine lovers to go out and source better quality wines for the best price, and as I said – – they are out there.

Edited January 26, 2021 by xylophone

[Dionigi]

9 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Examples of "white liquor"? 

I think they mean distilled rather than just fermented.

[indieke]

 I try to find some "drinkable wines". Bought in villa Marktet Redwood California Merlot 2015 for 5 00 bht. For 390,   Chardonnay from Chili, Vina Porta white in Friendship. These are not great wines, but better then the Mont Clair. In Wine connection, decent stuff around 800 Baht like the Western Australian Chardonnay, and Cabernet  Shiraz from Deepwoods. Also the " Natural " winery has good wine, but is almost 1000. Occasionally you find an ok Bordeaux below 1000 somewhere.