Australia laments Thailand’s high wine tax as excise dept delivers bitter news

[tgw]

1 hour ago, Moonlover said:

Now that's a solution that definitely won't work. If they were to up the tax on lao khoa, which would of course hammer the lowest income groups, they would revert to making it at home, as they used to. (and some still do I'm told)

 

There's a reason why the tax is so low. It's either that or no tax and another health hazard to deal with.

 

so they don't want to solve the alcohol problem. QED.

if only they could leave beer and wine alone.

[Andycoops]

I drink the Chilean wine as it's far cheaper than most of the Ozzie overrated brand <deleted> found here and delicious.

The best Ozzie wines come from Margaret River and I never seen any.

[KhaoNiaw]

7 hours ago, Enzian said:

The high wine tax targets foreigners, but also the hi-so locals (because they have money), who you think would have some clout with the government, but apparently not. There is also a crowd high in the government which is very anti-alcohol all around, and considering working class drinking habits (and Buddhism), it's hard to blame them. Someone should do a study of the anti-alcohol lobby, because they are interesting in the broad cultural picture, not because they are wrong.

I buy only Australian wine now that China upped the level of bullying.

Thisrupt put out a nice little video on the history of alcohol production and taxation in Thailand. Severe penalties, once upon a time, for nobility and government officials who were caught imbibing. 

 

Edited January 26, 2021 by KhaoNiaw

[trainman34014]

7 hours ago, Brock said:

If the excise on wine was reduced, then wine would be cheaper so more wine would be bought. More sold wine equals more excise revenue.. Simple maths..

 

They need a calculator to add more than the fingers on one hand !

[trainman34014]

1 hour ago, Colabamumbai said:

Been here 11 years now, never saw a Thai drinking wine except for the wife and she doesn't wine. 

I've only ever seen them quaffing wine that i bought !

[metisdead]

An off topic post about the EU/UK excise duty taxes has been removed. 

[natway09]

All distilled liquor is clear anywhere in the world, they just colour it or add back a flavour or both.

Tax on wine into Thailand  is brewing,,, I like the play on words but wine is fermented 555

Sorry 

[Knocker33]

I think after the price of wine nearly doubled in price a couple years ago many people stopped buying it. Me included. 

[masuk]

11 hours ago, PatOngo said:

(White) Skin tax!

Same goes for cheese.  I haven't heard of a Thai cheese product to protect, but certainly it's three to four times more expensive than in Australia.

[Dart12]

2 hours ago, Meat Pie 47 said:

This is what I pay in OZ for 4 liters 13 AUD less than 300 baht

 

I'll give it a shot.  I've tried Peter Vella and Mont Clair and another (my fave actually), but I can't think of the name right now.  But they aren't true reds at all.

[xylophone]

2 hours ago, indieke said:

Occasionally you find an ok Bordeaux below 1000 somewhere.  

An excellent Bordeaux for around 550--590 is Ch Bel Air from the Gassies stable. Was very surprised at its quality for that price, and have seen it in Tesco Lotus stores.

[RJRS1301]

16 minutes ago, Dart12 said:

I'll give it a shot.  I've tried Peter Vella and Mont Clair and another (my fave actually), but I can't think of the name right now.  But they aren't true reds at all.

Whatever you pay for most cardboard wines is way above the value, pity your taste buds

[masuk]

32 minutes ago, Dart12 said:

I'll give it a shot.  I've tried Peter Vella and Mont Clair and another (my fave actually), but I can't think of the name right now.  But they aren't true reds at all.

 

 

16 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

Whatever you pay for most cardboard wines is way above the value, pity your taste buds

Oh come on!   The collapsible containers in the casks keep out the oxygen and the taste is excellent.  Do you really think we'd be buying casks if the quality was not there? 

[RJRS1301]

2 minutes ago, masuk said:

 

 

Oh come on!   The collapsible containers in the casks keep out the oxygen and the taste is excellent.  Do you really think we'd be buying casks if the quality was not there? 

Nought to do with collapsable containers and oxygen, it has to do with product in the bladder, distatseful going in distasteful comeing out especially being held at room temp in the shops here. Overpriced stuff that rarely sells in its home country.

 

[Peterphuket]

9 hours ago, madmitch said:

The second paragraph doesn't make a great deal of sense as it appears that almost all of the taxation is based on abv. The 10% on more expensive wines won't, in reality, add up to much.

 

One day they'll realise they could collect more tax if they reduced the abv taxation to something more realistic.

I think that day will never come.

You have to be a little bit intelligent to realize that.

Ok, i'll be optimistic, maybe next century.

[Lacessit]

"The Thai Excise Department says it imposes zero excise on wine priced less than Bt1,000 per bottle – but Bt1,500 per litre of alcohol it contains. If the retail price is higher than Bt1,000, the rate rises from zero to 10 per cent."

 

Purchased by the dozen in Australia, a bottle of Jacob's Creek shiraz is about 220 baht, well below the 1000 baht threshold. Assuming a 15% alcohol content on a 700 mL bottle, tax here is 158 baht, a 40% increase. 378 baht total.

So why is Jacob's Creek 599 baht a bottle at Big C? That difference could not be shipping cost, someone is doing very well for themselves.

[Peterphuket]

8 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Wine tariffs here are dumb and dumber. No doubt the wine duty was about a small lobby, that paid a senator to pass anti farang wine legislation, to promote a handful of very inferior domestic wineries. A myopic policy, that staggers the imagination. To think of the hundreds of billions of baht the country is losing every year. If the duty was only 70%, or even 100%, the wine industry here would explode. It would benefit tourism, by attracting a far higher level of tourist, the ones the TAT is incessantly talking about wanting to attract!

 

The hotel industry, restaurants, and the people, and the ex-pats, could choose from good wine, at fair prices. As it stands now, a decent bottle here costs in excess of 1,000 baht. And at the restaurants, the prices of good wine is downright silly. I have seen house wines, that cost 1,500 baht, that are available in Los Angeles for $4. Good wines that I pay $30-40 for in LA, cost 6,000 baht here, if you can find them. And who is going to pay that kind of money for a wine that is 80% less overseas? It is a bit like an ignorant hi-so guy paying 15,000,000 baht for a Porsche 911 here, that cost $120,000 in the US.

I am very passionate about wine. I tend to drink wine that is in the $15-50 range, in the US. Some of these wines are simply stunning. Single vineyard pinot noirs, McLaren Shiraz, some outstanding wines from the Southern Rhone, like Chateauneuf, and Gigondas. Some very good ones for $30, to $50. Not cheap. But wines that inspire. I am not drinking to get loaded. I am drinking wine for inspiration, and exhilaration. Few of those wines are even available here, and if any can be found, they are $100 to $200. There is no way on earth I am going to spend that on a bottle of wine here. So, I tend not to drink wine here. Or the occasional decent bottle of Italian or Australian wine, that sets me back 1200 baht, and is decent at best.

These kind of regressive, closed minded, nationalistic, ignorant policies are what I would refer to as shooting oneself in one's foot. That is what the Thai government has done. They have sabotaged a potentially multi billion dollar industry, and denied themselves billions of dollars in duty, that we would be happy to pay, if the numbers made sense. You lower the duty to a reasonable level of 70%, you increase sales 8x, and you have more than made up for the difference, and added a million jobs, nationwide.

 

Oh, sorry. I forgot. Making sense, and using reason are not to be expected here, especially by members of this stunningly incompetent government, who have a hard time coming up with coherent and intelligent policy.

The last sentence don't have anything to do with this government, the high tax on wine is already for many years before this government with an IQ as big as there shoe sole.

[Fex Bluse]

8 hours ago, Camillof said:

 

My impression is that the big importers and national distribution chains who monopolize the consumers' market in this country swallow up for themselves all of the benefit resulting from those agreements, without leaving a crumb of it to the end consumer. And NOBODY complains except some of us foreigners.

Yes, the Sino Thai psuedo elites hurting the country but benefiting their families. 

[bunnydrops]

16 hours ago, webfact said:

Although Australia is the world’s leading food exporter,

Really??

[xylophone]

5 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

Nought to do with collapsable containers and oxygen, it has to do with product in the bladder, distatseful going in distasteful comeing out especially being held at room temp in the shops here. Overpriced stuff that rarely sells in its home country.

 

Well the cask/box/bladder wine is made to satisfy need at the bottom end of the market and because it's in the bladder (collapsible container if you wish) no air can get in, so the wine doesn't go off, although research does show that there is a slight ingress of air, but over 6 weeks, which is supposed to be the life of that wine, it doesn't make a great deal of difference.

 

Wine in these casks is not quality wine and is not meant to age at all, as it is for immediate drinking, and it is also a useful medium for getting rid of an overproduction of wine in some years, so that the winemaker is not left with stuff that they can't move.

 

True enough, some cask wine can stay on the shelves too long and once shipping is taken into consideration, it's quite possible that the wine can deteriorate/go off, and I know because I have tasted some of it.

 

For some folks on a budget, this type of wine might be okay, but at least you know what you are getting – – a cheap, low quality, perhaps fruity wine which is meant for nothing other than quaffing and is a very popular accompaniment for barbecues in both Australia and New Zealand.
 

[Vicki Coghlan]

Alcohol prices in Thailand are already sky high.

What happened to the trade deal between Australia and Thailand???

 

What deal???

 

It doesn't exist. 

 

 

[Salerno]

9 hours ago, bunnydrops said:

Really??

 

Don't let the "fact" in the posters name fool you 555

[josephbloggs]

22 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

It would benefit tourism, by attracting a far higher level of tourist, the ones the TAT is incessantly talking about wanting to attract!

I agree with you that the punitive taxes are unfair and ridiculous and I would love to pay a fair price for decent wine, but the above is taking things a bit far.  So you are saying high quality tourists - or any tourist in fact - researches the price of wine before they visit a country and base their choice of holiday destination on that?   Of course they don't.

[josephbloggs]

20 hours ago, Dart12 said:

Please name those brands.  

I pretty much quit wine here when  yes, $4 wine at home is $50 here.

And if there is no tax on 'cheap" wine...why is stuff like yellowtail 1500 bt ish?

Yellow Tail is 599 baht in Villa.  Let's not start making things up please.

[josephbloggs]

13 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Purchased by the dozen in Australia, a bottle of Jacob's Creek shiraz is about 220 baht, well below the 1000 baht threshold. Assuming a 15% alcohol content on a 700 mL bottle, tax here is 158 baht, a 40% increase. 378 baht total.

So why is Jacob's Creek 599 baht a bottle at Big C? That difference could not be shipping cost, someone is doing very well for themselves.

Shipping costs and then perhaps some profit for the retailer, how about that?  They have to have distribution networks, build shops, staff them, run them.  200 baht to cover all of that and a bit of profit doesn't seem so bad to me, not sure why you think it should be free.

[pattjock]

9 hours ago, xylophone said:

Well the cask/box/bladder wine is made to satisfy need at the bottom end of the market and because it's in the bladder (collapsible container if you wish) no air can get in, so the wine doesn't go off, although research does show that there is a slight ingress of air, but over 6 weeks, which is supposed to be the life of that wine, it doesn't make a great deal of difference.

 

Wine in these casks is not quality wine and is not meant to age at all, as it is for immediate drinking, and it is also a useful medium for getting rid of an overproduction of wine in some years, so that the winemaker is not left with stuff that they can't move.

 

True enough, some cask wine can stay on the shelves too long and once shipping is taken into consideration, it's quite possible that the wine can deteriorate/go off, and I know because I have tasted some of it.

 

For some folks on a budget, this type of wine might be okay, but at least you know what you are getting – – a cheap, low quality, perhaps fruity wine which is meant for nothing other than quaffing and is a very popular accompaniment for barbecues in both Australia and New Zealand.
 

The problem in Thailand is the cheaper is better mentality. All box wines here are the cheapest of the cheap and still not worth buying.

 

Over the years a few good box wines have been available. These were around 1500Baht per 3l box. Due to the price these were very short lived as cheaper is better.

 

Personally I would not mind buying a good wine box for 1500 to 2000Baht, just for the convenience of being able to have the occasional good glass of wine.

 

[Dogmatix]

On 1/26/2021 at 4:14 AM, RichardColeman said:

So, chuck huge import taxes on Thai rice and wait for the response

They can’t because there is an FTA with Oz. This is excise tax applied to all imported and domestic wine and therefore not restricted by FTAs.

[Dart12]

1 hour ago, josephbloggs said:

Yellow Tail is 599 baht in Villa.  Let's not start making things up please.

My bad.  I quit looking at wine first month here over a year ago.  still. $20 for $5 cheapie wine

[xylophone]

13 minutes ago, Dart12 said:

My bad.  I quit looking at wine first month here over a year ago.  still. $20 for $5 cheapie wine

Agree, when one compares the price here to back home, it seems extortionate, however I have got used to the idea of paying more for my wine and no longer compare prices, because this is where I live now, and have done for 14 years, so comparing prices is pointless.

 

As I have said in another post, I do seek out what I consider good quality wines here and don't mind paying up to 500-600 baht plus, a bottle, although my favourite at the moment sets me back 450 baht and it's a good Aussie wine.

[spidermike007]

15 hours ago, Peterphuket said:

The last sentence don't have anything to do with this government, the high tax on wine is already for many years before this government with an IQ as big as there shoe sole.

 

True. But it is the responsibility of any reasonable administration to repeal those ridiculous wine taxes, and admit that they were done for all the wrong reasons, are not effective, and absolutely choke the industry. Plus, any person in tourism will tell you it is nearly impossible to attract the rich tourists they keep droning on and on about. Most wealthy people tend to be smart with their money. They simply will not pay stupid money for stuff. The ultra rich are different. But, no ultra rich people would even consider Thailand as a destination, unless they had work here. The luxury taxes have been discouraging high end tourism here for decades. It is a policy that is so dumb, so shortsighted, so non-visionary, and it badly hurts the economy. If wine duty was 70-100%, you would have a thriving wine industry here, five to ten times the size of the current industry. So the state income would be made up on volume, and hundreds of thousands of jobs would be generated. Instead the protection of a few local wineries continues, due to some politicians passing the anti import wine bill years ago, and accepting the payoffs that came with that braindead decision. Plus, the five stars and others could host major wine tastings. The industry would thrive, and Thailand could become known as a destination for wine enthusiasts. Instead, it is the polar opposite of that now. 

They say they want rich tourists. What sacrifices are the ministers willing to make, to get them? Rich tourists like to spend money when they travel. And they cannot do that here, as they do not like getting taken for a ride. Most wealthy people are smart with their money. Thailand could be making a fortune on a 25% luxury tax. Instead of the 100% or more, which discourages most people from buying. How many people do you see in the luxury stores here? They are almost always completely empty. Inane. Beyond inane.

 

 

 

Edited January 27, 2021 by spidermike007