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Registration with the British Embassy


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On 1/27/2021 at 2:21 PM, British Consular Team said:

This is a question that comes up a lot, e.g. here. The FCDO's crisis registration system Locate was switched off in 2013. This was simply because people didn't use it (less than 1% of British travellers and residents overseas). With the additional detail that we also found that in a crisis the people who needed our help were not the people registering on Locate. 

 

It's important also to note that if you need our help in the event of a crisis we will provide you with a way to register your details with us.  An example of this was last summer during the C19 lockdown when over 1300 British Nationals registered with the Consular team.

 

The best way to stay updated on this and other information is by following our travel advice and subscribing to our travel alerts. 

 

Thank you for this summary.However my specific question related to the surprising truth that consular officials may apparently have little or no idea of approximately how many British expatriates are resident in Thailand.I would have thought that would be essential information, not least in case of a hypothetical major emergency.I note that in such a crisis -though I wouldn't necessarily include the C19 lockdown in that category - a way would be found to allow British subjects to register their details.Nevertheless it might be thought that having no real idea how many British residents there are in Thailand and with no way to contact many of them might be seen as possible problem in the making.

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3 hours ago, British Consular Team said:

 

Thanks for your reply. I agree it's not ideal that we can't contact many of the Brits living in Thailand but it's difficult to resolve that particular problem, as many don't want to be contacted - and that's their right. I'd question the idea that we don't know how many Brits are resident in Thailand though, as Thai immigration authorities provide us with that info on request. That data may not be exact but it's an excellent indication.

Thank you for this full reply and I hesitate to make further points since I know you and your colleagues must have thought about this issue carefully.Anyway here goes.I don't think the minority of expats that don't want to contacted is a major factor.The vast majority would sign up whatever kind of register was on offer, actually much easier these days with Thailand's good internet/telecoms infrastructure.

 

I suppose a key indicator would be what other developed countries with sizeable resident populations are doing about this - particularly the Australians, the Japanese, the Germans, the French and the Americans.If they have generally come to the same conclusions as the Brits, that is evidence of sorts that our patchwork approach is as workable as can reasonably expected.If they have reached a different conclusion and maybe even come up with a workable  contact system, maybe it's time for the Brits to have a re-think.

 

Please don't bother to respond.You have already given a very decent reply.

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On 01/02/2021 at 5:37 PM, British Consular Team said:

 

Thanks for your reply. I agree it's not ideal that we can't contact many of the Brits living in Thailand but it's difficult to resolve that particular problem, as many don't want to be contacted - and that's their right. I'd question the idea that we don't know how many Brits are resident in Thailand though, as Thai immigration authorities provide us with that info on request. That data may not be exact but it's an excellent indication.

Indeed, it won't be exact as some Brits here, like me, have become Thai citizens. 

I'm interested to know if we can use British consular services, as it is actually illegal for us to use our British passport in Thailand. Is the British embassy on Thai soil? 

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3 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Indeed, it won't be exact as some Brits here, like me, have become Thai citizens. 

I'm interested to know if we can use British consular services, as it is actually illegal for us to use our British passport in Thailand. Is the British embassy on Thai soil? 

Surely you don't lose your British nationality when you get a second one, do you?

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On 2/4/2021 at 12:25 PM, Neeranam said:

Indeed, it won't be exact as some Brits here, like me, have become Thai citizens. 

I'm interested to know if we can use British consular services, as it is actually illegal for us to use our British passport in Thailand. Is the British embassy on Thai soil? 

 

Page 6 of the attached guide:

 

If you are a dual British national in the country of your other nationality (for example, a dual US-British national in the US), we would not normally offer you support or get involved in dealings between you and the authorities of that state. We may make an exception to this rule if, having looked at the circumstances of the case, we consider that you are vulnerable and we have humanitarian concerns.These circumstances might include cases involving a murder or manslaughter, children, forced marriages or an offence which carries the death penalty. However,the help we can provide will depend on the circumstances and the country of your other nationality agreeing to it.

 

 

FCDO_SBNA_update_31_Dec_20_-_Final_-_pdf_version.pdf

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5 minutes ago, blackcab said:

 

Page 6 of the attached guide:

 

If you are a dual British national in the country of your other nationality (for example, a dual US-British national in the US), we would not normally offer you support or get involved in dealings between you and the authorities of that state. We may makean exception to this rule if, having looked at the circumstances of the case, we consider that you are vulnerable and we have humanitarian concerns.These 
circumstancesmightincludecases involving a murder or manslaughter, children, forced marriages or an offence which carries the death penalty. However,the help we can provide will depend on the circumstances and the country of your other nationality agreeing to it.

 

 

FCDO_SBNA_update_31_Dec_20_-_Final_-_pdf_version.pdf 1.29 MB · 0 downloads

Thanks Black Cab.

 

I thought this would be the case. I wonder about some consular things like getting a child registered as a British citizen at the embassy in Bangkok. Like I said before, it is illegal to use my British passport in Thailand.  Actually, with my current kids, the Thai birth certificate actually has to be changed to show that their father(me) is Thai.

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26 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Thanks Black Cab.

 

I thought this would be the case. I wonder about some consular things like getting a child registered as a British citizen at the embassy in Bangkok. Like I said before, it is illegal to use my British passport in Thailand.  Actually, with my current kids, the Thai birth certificate actually has to be changed to show that their father(me) is Thai.

 

This is now going well off topic. If you have specific questions please ask them in a separate topic.

 

1. Children are not registered at the British Embassy. You don't have to register children at all; instead the primary concern is obtaining them a UK passport.

 

You can register the children with the FCDO in the UK, however you do not get a second birth certificate. You get a Birth Registration that cannot be used as a birth certificate. Indeed, if you apply for a UK passport for your child the passport office will insist on the Thai birth certificate and a translation. The FCDO birth registration will not be accepted.

 

2. It is not illegal to use your UK passport in Thailand. You can use it, however the potential consequence for a naturalised Thai citizen is that your Thai citizenship can be revoked. If I recall correctly, ubonjoe said that he could not remember a case of this happening, as any revocation would have to be printed in the Royal Gazette and would be a matter of public record.

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10 minutes ago, blackcab said:

It is not illegal to use your UK passport in Thailand. You can use it, however the potential consequence for a naturalised Thai citizen is that your Thai citizenship can be revoked.

As a naturalized Thai citizen, it is illegal for me to use my UK passport in Thailand.

My question to the Consular Services is if I can use their consular services. I believe the UK embassy is not on Thai soil, so I could use my passport?  

With 2 of my kids I got that FCDO at the British Embassy. I can't remember but assume I had to show my British passport. 

Here is one example of a British/Thai citizen who had his Thai one revoked for entering Thailand on his British passport - 

http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/DATA/PDF/0E/00142164.PDF

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 2/6/2021 at 11:53 AM, Neeranam said:

As a naturalized Thai citizen, it is illegal for me to use my UK passport in Thailand.

My question to the Consular Services is if I can use their consular services. I believe the UK embassy is not on Thai soil, so I could use my passport?  

With 2 of my kids I got that FCDO at the British Embassy. I can't remember but assume I had to show my British passport. 

Here is one example of a British/Thai citizen who had his Thai one revoked for entering Thailand on his British passport - 

http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/DATA/PDF/0E/00142164.PDF

It would seem that you are referring to the Thai Nationality Act 2508 (1965) which seems to be still in force

 

Section 19 states that The Minister is empowered to revoke Thai nationality of a person who acquires Thai nationality by naturalization if it appears that: (1) The naturalization was effected by concealment of facts or making any statement false in material particular; (2) There is evidence to show that he still makes use of his former nationality; (3) He commits any act prejudicial to the security or conflicting the interests of the State, or amounting to an insult to the nation; (4) He commits any act contrary to public order or good morals; (5) He has resided abroad without having a domicile in Thailand for more than five years; (6) He still retains the nationality of the country at war with Thailand. The revocation of Thai nationality under this Section may extend to children of a person whose Thai nationality is revoked, in case such children are not sui juris and acquire Thai nationality under Section 12 paragraph two. The Minister shall, after the order for revocation of Thai nationality has been given, submit the matter to the King.

 

Therefore, whilst it would appear that the use of your British nationality is prohibited (the sanction being that your Thai nationality would be removed), that is not the same as it being actually illegal (in that it is not a criminal offence which would lead to imprisonment etc.).

 

As you are probably aware, Thai law is more fluid than most countries, which means that the law can change in practice even if the actual law is not amended or repealed. It is well known for example that Thailand has relaxed the regulations about having a dual nationality without any actual amendment of the law, which means that (I suspect), it is unlikely that the Thai government would be as interested in your comings and goings as they would have been two decades ago. Simply looking at the date and era that it was signed and in particular the person who signed it (Army Field Marshal Kittichachorn) should give you a pretty good idea of the thinking behind it when it was drawn up and mentality of the times.

 

Equally, the article that you refer to is about 17 years old, and it seems to be an inordinate amount of trouble for someone to have used their passport of original country to enter Thailand. It is likely that there is something else behind that, but you never know, I accept. Even so, times have changed significantly since then and the Thai authorities seem very relaxed these days about Thais using dual nationality without any issues.

 

In any event, if you were to attend at the British Embassy, it seems untenable that the Thai Government would know what you were actually doing there or would be following you around to see what you got up to. 

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With regard to the British Embassy being on Thai or British soil, the answer sort of depends on what the question relates to, but the short answer is that it technically remains Thai soil, but subject to a number of caveats

 

Is an Embassy on Foreign Soil the Sovereign Territory of the Host Country or the Embassy's Country? - Path to Foreign Service

 

Edited by roath
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  • 3 months later...

Not sure if I'm in the right place, but here goes.  Not a regular Forum contributor.

How do I register with the Embassy, or know if I'm already registered?

 

and

 

What does my wife need to do to get the Embassy letter that will release my body from the hospital after my death, so the body can be given a funeral?

 

PS at the moment I'm still alive, just trying to prepare....

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1 hour ago, UniqueWord said:

Not sure if I'm in the right place, but here goes.  Not a regular Forum contributor.

How do I register with the Embassy, or know if I'm already registered?

 

and

 

What does my wife need to do to get the Embassy letter that will release my body from the hospital after my death, so the body can be given a funeral?

 

PS at the moment I'm still alive, just trying to prepare....

 

1) You can't and have no need to register with the Embassy, see the very first post in this thread.

2) https://www.gov.uk/guidance/what-to-do-after-a-british-person-dies-in-thailand

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To Upnotover.

 

Many thanks for responding,.  As usual the BE doesn't provide much detail in getting the Consular Letter to release the body.   There is no list of required documents to be sent accompanying the Request Letter.  It's pretty much a guessing game as to what's required and whether copies are acceptable, or they want originals.  I'll instruct my wife to provide copies and leave it to the BE to tell her they want originals if they're that picky.

There's no way they'll get the original of the Death Certificate which she needs to secure her Survivor Benefit from my Pension Plan in the USA!

 

Cheers, UW.

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