Depositing US Covid Check

[Pib]

4 hours ago, Sheryl said:

I don;t intend to claim anything. Just not cash the check, and take the deduction.

 

Since your IRS record will show you were issued/received a payment, and in your case simply haven't cashed it yet, I expect what you propose  to do would fall under below IRS guidance.   That is, until the IRS determines from a trace as to whether the check has been cashed or not, applying for a rebate recovery credit on your federal tax return might result your return being flagged with a possible error...and error that will require a trace/inquiry to determine if  you are eligible for the credit.   I just can't see the IRS providing a credit when their records show a payment via check/debit card/direct deposit was sent and there is no previous record showing you didn't' receive the payment like initiating a trace with the IRS.  

 

I looked at my IRS transcript last night and it shows both the $1,200 first payment and $600 second payment for both the wife and I.   If the wife and I were to file for the rebate recovery credit I'm sure the IRS would just say no since their records show we received the payments...or should I say the IRS sent the payments.  Our payments were via direct deposit so they could easily confirm from the ACH payment reconciliation process that the payment was received in our bank acct.   If they had sent the payment by debit card then they could check whether we activated the cards or not...and whether any money was withdrawn.   But for a check, that gets tougher as some folks who did receive checks simply haven't cashed them yet so I'm sure the IRS would still consider the person has received the payment because the person has not initiated any tracer action nor does IRS show the check was returned by the mail system....for whatever reason the person just hasn't got around to cashing the check yet.

 

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/economic-impact-payment-information-center-topic-f-payment-issued-but-lost-stolen-destroyed-or-not-received

[OliverKlozerof]

1 hour ago, wwest5829 said:

First $1200 check = Bangkok Bank said they would charge 400 baht to process. I used my Fideity App and deposited immediately without issue.

Did it have a Thai address on it?

[Mansell]

I ran my last government check for I think 1,200 dollars to Bangkok Bank in Korat. No problem, charged me 500 baht and said it would take a month....it cleared in about ten days. Looking forward to my next check or checks.

[foreverlomsak]

On 2/18/2021 at 7:19 PM, OliverKlozerof said:

 

Sixty bucks to cash a check? Geezus

It's because the check has to be physically presented in the US by the bank to obtain the funds to send back to Thailand to deposit in your account, and don't expect a real good exchange rate either.

[OliverKlozerof]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

 

Since your IRS record will show you were issued/received a payment, and in your case simply haven't cashed it yet, I expect what you propose  to do would fall under below IRS guidance.   That is, until the IRS determines from a trace as to whether the check has been cashed or not, applying for a rebate recovery credit on your federal tax return might result your return being flagged with a possible error...and error that will require a trace/inquiry to determine if  you are eligible for the credit.   I just can't see the IRS providing a credit when their records show a payment via check/debit card/direct deposit was sent and there is no previous record showing you didn't' receive the payment like initiating a trace with the IRS.  

 

I looked at my IRS transcript last night and it shows both the $1,200 first payment and $600 second payment for both the wife and I.   If the wife and I were to file for the rebate recovery credit I'm sure the IRS would just say no since their records show we received the payments...or should I say the IRS sent the payments.  Our payments were via direct deposit so they could easily confirm from the ACH payment reconciliation process that the payment was received in our bank acct.   If they had sent the payment by debit card then they could check whether we activated the cards or not...and whether any money was withdrawn.   But for a check, that gets tougher as some folks who did receive checks simply haven't cashed them yet so I'm sure the IRS would still consider the person has received the payment because the person has not initiated any tracer action nor does IRS show the check was returned by the mail system....for whatever reason the person just hasn't got around to cashing the check yet.

 

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/economic-impact-payment-information-center-topic-f-payment-issued-but-lost-stolen-destroyed-or-not-received

This discussion about checks seems pretty straightforward. Unlike a direct deposit, there is no record that anyone actually receives a check. (I don't know about the debit cards that I heard some received, but unless you have to sign upon receipt, then you could also simply claim never to have received it.) Things can and do get lost in the mail, or stolen. If they were sent by registered mail, which is tracked and for which the recipient must sign, then there would be documentation. My check just showed up in my mailbox, placed there by staff at my apartment building. The US gov't is only concerned once the value has been got from it by someone taking it to a bank and receiving the face value. Tearing up a check has the same effect as it being lost or stolen.

[wwest5829]

16 minutes ago, OliverKlozerof said:

Did it have a Thai address on it?

Yes. Address did not matter. It was written to my name to be deposited into my Fidelity account so no conflict with a US government check. Additionally, at the same time, using the app, I deposited two checks mailed to me from Anthem BC/BS.

[bronzedude]

Use your Schwab mobile app and see if it works. If not they'll let you know and you still have the check to try and deposit in a Thai Bank. Also, the check is good for one year, so if you go back to the US, you can always deposit it when you're there. I deposited mine yesterday with Schwab and they accepted it. Now I'm waiting for it to post as available funds.

[OliverKlozerof]

32 minutes ago, bronzedude said:

Use your Schwab mobile app and see if it works. If not they'll let you know and you still have the check to try and deposit in a Thai Bank. Also, the check is good for one year, so if you go back to the US, you can always deposit it when you're there. I deposited mine yesterday with Schwab and they accepted it. Now I'm waiting for it to post as available funds.

Same thing I asked wwest, above: Did the check have your Thai address on the front (like mine does)?
Yeah, it seems like it should work (and yes, I've used it to deposit various checks before). But the reason I'm being extra cautious is, my Schwab acct essentially keeps me alive. Because of something called FATCA, some brokerages have forced expats to close accounts: 

 

https://thunfinancial.com/home/american-expat-financial-advice-research-articles/us-brokerage-accounts-american-expats-closed-2015/

 

Because the check is issued by the US govt and has my Thai address on front, if they wanted to Schwab could conceivably raise a stink about it. I agree that seems unlikely.
Schwab has a live chat feature that works during certain hours while logged in to my acct. As I recall, I've asked a couple questions using it about the checking acct that's linked to my investment acct. I think the person on the other end acted like the Schwab Banking thing was like a completely different company, so couldn't give me much info about it. If so, then it does seem extra unlikely seeing a Thai address on a check to me would trigger any negative reaction. But my address of record at Schwab is my sister's house in Seattle. So, if I were a bank, I might wonder why a check I'm trying to deposit would show an address on the other side of the world.

I may try the online chat later and see if I learn anything.

Edited February 19, 2021 by OliverKlozerof

[OliverKlozerof]

Well, I used the Live Chat feature after logging into my Schwab acct to ask if having a Thai address on the front of the check would cause a problem if I deposited it using the Schwab app. Their answer was: No, it shouldn't cause a problem. FYI, below is a transcript of the chat.

-- 

Me:

I want to deposit a check using the schwab app. However, this check has an address on the front which is different from my address of record with schwab. Would there be a problem with that? Actually the address is in a foreign country.

 

Agent:

Can you tell me more about the check you deposited? Can you provide me with the method of delivery ?

 

Me:

This is the US covid check for $600. I received it a couple days ago. On the front it has the address of an apartment in Thailand. Would there be any problem trying to deposit it in my Investor Checking acct using the deposit feature on the schwab mobile app? (My address of record with schwab is in Seattle.)

 

Agent:

Is the check made out to [my name] ?

 

Me:

Yes it is.

 

Agent:

Which account are funds going to be deposited into ?

 

Me:

My 'investor checking' acct.

 

Agent:

You should be able to deposit the check via mobile deposit.

 

Me:

So it doesn't matter that that address on the front is not my address of record with schwab?

 

Agent:

Is the deposit account number on the memo line of the check ?

 

Me:

You mean when I endorse it on the back? (BTW, you seem to think I already deposited it. No, not yet.)

 

Agent:

You should be able to deposit the check using the mobile deposit. Please use the app to deposit the check. Please allow 1 days for the image to reach Schwab and 5 business days for the check to clear. Are you able to successfully login to the Charles Schwab App ?

 

Me:

Yes I use the app often and have used it to deposit checks before. My only concern was the address on the front of this check potentially causing a problem.

 

Agent:

Allow me to transfer you to a Banking Specialist for further assistance. One moment please.

 

Transfer Connected

 

Agent2:

No, that is not a problem.  The display of your name is the most important issue.  And please ensure your Schwab  Bank Investor Checking account number is referenced.

 

Me:

You mean when I endorse it on the back?

 

Agent2:

Yes, you can write your account number on the back of the check.

 

Me:

OK. That's all I need to know. Thanks.

 

Agent2:

You bet.   Thank you for your business, and have a good weekend!

[wmccpa112253]

I just got my check from IRS this week.  I took it to SCB where my wife and I have a joint account (she is Thai and American).  They deposited the check at the days rate, put a hold on it for 60 days to clear and charged me 500 baht.

It is in my account, but can not use until the hold is taken off.

[mtls2005]

11 hours ago, Pib said:

That is, until the IRS determines from a trace as to whether the check has been cashed or not, applying for a rebate recovery credit on your federal tax return might result your return being flagged with a possible error...and error that will require a trace/inquiry to determine if  you are eligible for the credit. 

 

Agreed. I probably should have said something like this rather than expecting someone to do their own research. 

 

I reviewed some of the IRS documentation re: Line 30, and there is no mention of being able to "not cash a check", and instead take it as a credit. I guess if you add a cover letter describing what you're doing, then you are at least avoiding any potential penalties associated with providing false information? 

 

I would recommend filing a 3911 so there is a record of your attempt to resolve the "missing" check, but by signing that you might compound the 'providing false information' problem? And this might well result in a second check being mailed.

 

In my case, missing EIP #1 ($1,200), I have a documented history of trying to resolve this (GMP still shows May 6 check mail date, multiple phone calls, made part of my record; Form 3911, DirDep info added - I did get EIP#2 ($600) via DirDep).

 

I documented all of this in a cover letter which I attached to my eFile. I think most software allows the attachment of a PDF.

 

All that said, I still expect a lengthy review process, and perhaps might ultimately be denied that $1,200 credit pending some sort of future resolution.

 

At this point am pretty sure I'll get the EIP #3, $1,400 payment before I see the $1,200 as part of my refund.

 

 

 

 

[OliverKlozerof]

1) I deposited the $600 check using the Schwab app last night with no problems.

BTW, since I have a slow cell data package, I turned off cell data and logged into the wifi in my apartment, figuring that might make things go more smoothly, since it requires uploading a couple images. Oddly, Schwab reported 'this feature not available currently; try again later,' when trying to log in (which I've almost never seen). Well, eventually I turned cell data back on, and was then able to log on with the app and deposit the check. So, it kinda looks like you have to have cell data turned on when using the app.

2) Though I got a letter long ago saying I'd be getting the $1200 check, it never arrived. Then I heard through a friend that I would be able to resolve that on this year's tax return. Though mtls, above, went to great lengths to document his (her?) efforts to get the check, and then report that it was never received, I'm hoping to just check the box (or fill in the blank or whatever), to say, 'I never got it, please give it to me.' Again, the gov't should be able to see that I never received the money, and that's all they should care about. (I'm also hoping the form allows me to give my bank details for direct deposit. I.e., if they just try sending a paper check again, it might get lost in the mail again....)

3) There is supposed to be an additional $1400? (I don't pay close attention to the news.)

[lopburi3]

31 minutes ago, OliverKlozerof said:

1) I deposited the $600 check using the Schwab app last night with no problems.

BTW, since I have a slow cell data package, I turned off cell data and logged into the wifi in my apartment, figuring that might make things go more smoothly, since it requires uploading a couple images. Oddly, Schwab reported 'this feature not available currently; try again later,' when trying to log in (which I've almost never seen). Well, eventually I turned cell data back on, and was then able to log on with the app and deposit the check. So, it kinda looks like you have to have cell data turned on when using the app.

2) Though I got a letter long ago saying I'd be getting the $1200 check, it never arrived. Then I heard through a friend that I would be able to resolve that on this year's tax return. Though mtls, above, went to great lengths to document his (her?) efforts to get the check, and then report that it was never received, I'm hoping to just check the box (or fill in the blank or whatever), to say, 'I never got it, please give it to me.' Again, the gov't should be able to see that I never received the money, and that's all they should care about. (I'm also hoping the form allows me to give my bank details for direct deposit. I.e., if they just try sending a paper check again, it might get lost in the mail again....)

3) There is supposed to be an additional $1400? (I don't pay close attention to the news.)

Many people did not get the 1200 due to spouse not having SSN - this was changed for the 600 check and the 1200 can now be claimed as excess tax payment on current return (it is simple check box additional paper) and tax returns allow entry of account information for direct deposit.  The 1400 (or whatever) has not yet been approved but expected to be so in next week or two.

Edited February 20, 2021 by lopburi3

[OliverKlozerof]

5 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Many people did not get the 1200 due to spouse not having SSN - this was changed for the 600 check and the 1200 can now be claimed as excess tax payment on current return (it is simple check box additional paper) and tax returns allow entry of account information for direct deposit.  The 1400 (or whatever) has not yet been approved but expected to be so in next week or two.

Thanks. I have no spouse so that must not have been the reason I didn't get the $1200 but whatever. I haven't had to pay taxes in years, so I guess I'll have them deposit to my Schwab acct. ???? 

[OliverKlozerof]

FYI, one reason I was concerned about Schwab seeing my Thai address was the experience of a friend who had to shift all his holdings to Schwab a few years ago when the broker he had been using 'dumped him.' He just recalled the episode in this email to me:

--

"Yes, I do have a Schwab international account. I switched to Schwab about 5 years ago when Merrill Lynch dumped me. Back then the IRS was concerned about tax evasion and money laundering and were coming down hard on Americans with foreign bank accounts (that weren't reported to the IRS) and also on the banks that serviced them. ML got cold feet and dumped all their foreign account holders (unless they had like millions). And yes i think there is some law about people outside the US not being allowed to buy mutual funds, but you can invest in ETFs (Exchange Traded Funds) which are virtually the same thing."

[DogNo1]

The address I have registered with Fidelity is my Japanese address.  I have had no problems.  I wire $2300 monthly to my Bangkok Bank account for no fee at all.

[klauskunkel]

Last week I deposited my $600 Covid check at BKK Bank HQon Silom Rd, 2nd floor to my bank acct. No problems whatsoever. The fee was about 460 baht.

Today arrived the first Covid check ($1200) in the mail after waiting since last year Summer. It says on the envelope: missent to Malaysia. So come Monday I will repeat the trek to BKK Bank HQ.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

1 hour ago, DogNo1 said:

The address I have registered with Fidelity is my Japanese address.  I have had no problems.  I wire $2300 monthly to my Bangkok Bank account for no fee at all.

For a while I had two non-US addresses. My broker was fine with the other non-US address, but would not keep my account open without severe restrictions if I used my Thai address. I was told that the broker did not have sufficient business in Thailand to warrant going to the trouble of getting a license here. Either they obtained a license in the other country due to greater business volume or the other country did not have very restrictive laws regarding selling securities and giving financial advice across borders. I guess it depends upon what country you use for your address, amount you have with your broker, licensing laws and business volume. Lots of moving parts.

[DogNo1]

I have a rather special situation.  My paid financial advisor is located in NYC and does all of my trading from there.  I have no financial activity from Bangkok or Tokyo other than making wire transfers from my cash management account to my account at Bangkok Bank.  I planned this very carefully because there is a 50% inheritance tax on all of your financial assets held in Japan when you die.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

5 hours ago, DogNo1 said:

I have a rather special situation.  My paid financial advisor is located in NYC and does all of my trading from there.  I have no financial activity from Bangkok or Tokyo other than making wire transfers from my cash management account to my account at Bangkok Bank.  I planned this very carefully because there is a 50% inheritance tax on all of your financial assets held in Japan when you die.

Interesting.

 

Another quirk for US expats in Europe: I was told by my NYC-based financial advisor that in order to comply with EU regulations (I'm not sure if it was country-specific) some EU residents with regular US brokerage accounts would have to change them to be discretionary accounts so as to avoid the issue of cross-border securities trade and advice. In other words, the broker/FA would initiate all trades without the expressed consent of the account holder.

[DogNo1]

Yes, my financial advisor in NYC initiates all of the trades in my account on his own with no input from me except for occasionally filling out out a questionnaire aboutb my short and long term goals related to projected financial needs.  I can give him general directions.  For example, at the beginning of last year, I asked him replace all of my MLPs with alternative investments because I find collecting and filing all of the related K-1s to be onerous.  They were all replaced by January 1st at a handy profit.  

My financial advisor is looking for new customers, so if you want a good advisor for retirement income investments, I can recommend him.  He can work through either Fidelity or Schwab.  You can find him online at LFFA.

[shortstop]

On 2/20/2021 at 1:12 PM, OliverKlozerof said:

2) Though I got a letter long ago saying I'd be getting the $1200 check, it never arrived.

 

I also received Form 1444 in the middle of last year.

 

After reading https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/economic-impact-payment-information-center-topic-f-payment-issued-but-lost-stolen-destroyed-or-not-received#qf3

 

I called the IRS, 800-919-9835, tonight on Skype expecting to initiate a payment trace.

 

Instead the rep said I should check online https://sa.www4.irs.gov/irfof-wmsp/login

 

It showed despite receiving the letter that the initial $1200 check was never sent but the second $600 check was sent.   So there is no need for me to do a payment trace for the first check. The rep said to just claim it when I file my 2020 tax return.

 

--------------------

 

As far as the second $600 stimulus payment,  March 31st is the first day that a payment trace can be requested.   Have no idea how long a payment trace takes.

If the trace determines the check was not cashed but is not completed before the 2020 return is filed supposedly they will automatically adjust your refund.

 

Quote

Note: If you are filing your 2020 tax return before your trace is complete, do not include the payment amount on line 16 or 19 of the Recovery Rebate Credit Worksheet. You may receive a notice saying your Recovery Rebate Credit was changed, but an adjustment will be made after the trace is complete and it is determined your payment has not been cashed. You will not need to take any additional action to receive the credit.

If you do not request a trace on your payment, you may receive an error when claiming the Recovery Rebate Credit on your 2020 tax return. Since the payment was issued to you, you may not be eligible for any credit.

 

In 2019, I had no tax withheld and no tax due as I try to withdraw the exact amount from my IRA to keep me at the top of the 0% bracket.  When filing, I increased my earned interest from my Thai bank so I'd owe $3 in tax and have that withdrawn from my account hoping that this would avoid having a stimulus check sent to Thailand..  But despite this the PDF of my return doesn't show my Fidelity account number as it did in years when I received a refund. For 2020, I should have a 1200 refund because of the stimulus and hopefully when the payment trace shows that the second payment wasn't cashed they will do. a direct deposit to that account.  

 

 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2021 by shortstop

[shortstop]

On 2/20/2021 at 6:26 PM, DogNo1 said:

The address I have registered with Fidelity is my Japanese address.  I have had no problems.  I wire $2300 monthly to my Bangkok Bank account for no fee at all.

Were you able to set up the Fidelity Standing Wire Transfer here in Thailand?

 

It seems to set it up you need a Medallion signature which I don't believe is available in Thailand.

 

 

[mtls2005]

6 hours ago, shortstop said:

Were you able to set up the Fidelity Standing Wire Transfer here in Thailand?

 

It seems to set it up you need a Medallion signature which I don't believe is available in Thailand.

 

There's been a bit of discussion on this topic and the concensus, if there can ever be such a thing, as that this needs to be done in person at a Fidelity branch, or at a financial institution which can provide that Medallion thingy. Some people claimed some institution(s) could do it here but that was never really supported with a first-hand experience.

 

I set up standing orders to my BBL and SCB accounts, two separate forms, in person at a Fidelity Branch ~ Dec 2018 (I think). These work fine but do require a phone call each time to initiate the transfer (because of the Dodd-Frank lingo I think?).

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 23, 2021 by mtls2005

[DogNo1]

Apparently can't be done in Thailand. I tried for two years and couldn't get it done.  I finally did at a Fidelity branch in Renton, WA about two years ago.  It seems that you need to be in America and either get a Medallion signature at an American bank or do it with proper identification at a Fidelity branch in America.

[Sheryl]

On 2/19/2021 at 7:43 PM, Pib said:

 

Since your IRS record will show you were issued/received a payment, and in your case simply haven't cashed it yet, I expect what you propose  to do would fall under below IRS guidance.   That is, until the IRS determines from a trace as to whether the check has been cashed or not, applying for a rebate recovery credit on your federal tax return might result your return being flagged with a possible error...and error that will require a trace/inquiry to determine if  you are eligible for the credit.   I just can't see the IRS providing a credit when their records show a payment via check/debit card/direct deposit was sent and there is no previous record showing you didn't' receive the payment like initiating a trace with the IRS.  

 

I looked at my IRS transcript last night and it shows both the $1,200 first payment and $600 second payment for both the wife and I.   If the wife and I were to file for the rebate recovery credit I'm sure the IRS would just say no since their records show we received the payments...or should I say the IRS sent the payments.  Our payments were via direct deposit so they could easily confirm from the ACH payment reconciliation process that the payment was received in our bank acct.   If they had sent the payment by debit card then they could check whether we activated the cards or not...and whether any money was withdrawn.   But for a check, that gets tougher as some folks who did receive checks simply haven't cashed them yet so I'm sure the IRS would still consider the person has received the payment because the person has not initiated any tracer action nor does IRS show the check was returned by the mail system....for whatever reason the person just hasn't got around to cashing the check yet.

 

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/economic-impact-payment-information-center-topic-f-payment-issued-but-lost-stolen-destroyed-or-not-received

Many thanks Pib for the first useful reply I've seen. Makes sense.

 

I will try the online deposit method, if it fails (as it did with last stimulus check) I'll investigate getting a trace issued. 

 

I am not very concerned with requesting a trace when the check did arrive. There is absolutely no way anyone could know (1) that it ever arrived and (2) even if it arrived that I didn't then mislay it. And I don't think the IRS is particularly concerned to stop people from not cashing checks in order to claim the deduction, few people would have any reason to do that. What they are understandably concerned about is to ensure no double payment i.e. that no one both receives payment and gets a deduction.

 

[Pib]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

What they are understandably concerned about is to ensure no double payment i.e. that no one both receives payment and gets a deduction.

 

And I expect also to prevent U.S. govt checks from bouncing creating a bad name for Uncle Sam.   I expect there would be cases where some people would try to cash the check "after" getting a federal return refund credit for the stimulus payment(s) but it would probably bounce assuming the US Treasury cancelled the check when issuing a fed return refund credit.   With govt checks bouncing that might make banks reluctant/more strict/more costly in cashing them...it just makes it harder on those folks who still receive such checks because of some banking challenge/issue.  Plus, as mentioned could give Uncle Sam checks a bad name.

[mtls2005]

3 hours ago, Sheryl said:

I will try the online deposit method, if it fails (as it did with last stimulus check)

 

Do you have a bank account in the U.S.?

 

Based on this comment it seems like you do.

 

Just print a deposit slip, endorse it and mail it to the bank. You'll have the money sooner than waiting for your refund.

 

 

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

 

Do you have a bank account in the U.S.?

 

Based on this comment it seems like you do.

 

Just print a deposit slip, endorse it and mail it to the bank. You'll have the money sooner than waiting for your refund.

 

 

 

Again, refund not in question, I owe taxes.  Just want to apply my stimulus amount towards what I owe. So the effect is immediate, I make a smaller tax payment. If I were due a refund it would make no sense to try to claim the credit, but it makes a lot of sense sinc e I have to pay.

 

Mailing check for deposit in these COVID times is very slow and unrelaible. Last check, cost me about 1,000 baht to send EMS and even so took more than a month to arrive and (for reasons I never understood) almost another month to clear the bank as a deposit.

 

Since I will be filing my taxes in the interim (before a mailed check would be likely to arrive and clear my bank) I don't want to be in the situation of not knowing if my stimulus check will get deposited vs lost in the mail to the bank.

[mtls2005]

15 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Mailing check for deposit in these COVID times is very slow and unrelaible.

 

Regular airmail THL-->USA for me has been 14 days. ~ 50 THB. Very reliable for me.

 

15 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Again, refund not in question, I owe taxes.  Just want to apply my stimulus amount towards what I owe. So the effect is immediate, I make a smaller tax payment. If I were due a refund it would make no sense to try to claim the credit, but it makes a lot of sense sinc e I have to pay.

 

If this makes sense to you that's all that really matters.