U.S. Supreme Court sets the stage for release of Trump tax returns

[KarenBravo]

17 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

The  legal action started in 2011 and was from the grand jury seeking Trump personal and business records. Trump  legal defense fought and appealed each decision  that they lost. Part of the probe involves hush-money payments Trump lawyer Michael Cohen made to cover up alleged extramarital affairs. The money was paid in allegedly illegal manner and was  part of a  tax avoidance scheme.

 

In case you forgot, when  Trump was running for President in 2015/2016  he refused to release his tax returns using the excuse that he was under IRS audit and  had legal  cases outstanding. Trump ran the clock like the   gangland guys do. He delayed and delayed and now he has lost. because there was a delay of his own doing is not a reason not to hand over the documents.  

 

I find it amusing that a court stacked with his allies ruled against him without  any dissenting opinion. That says it all.

 

It was a 7-2 vote.

[KarenBravo]

10 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

You Dems. are trying everything to stop him from running in 2024.What next are you going to hit him over the head with the kitchen sink?

 

Not just Democrats. Independents and a few Republicans, too.

If you are a Republican and you want your party to remain relevant and have a future, the party will have to ditch Trump. More and more Republicans are seeing this. People are leaving the party in droves.

[Credo]

1 hour ago, Paul Henry said:

To say there is no evidence of Trumps crooked actions is ludicrous. His own personal lawyer who was privy to the cheating and lies has sworn under oath that Trump was over valuing his assets for the banks and under stating them for the tax and insurance purposes. That is evidence enough to start an investigation and possible legal action. Also lets not forget the campaign finance violations in relation to his adulterous liaisons with porn stars. Proof has been presented look at the checks he signed if in doubt.

I suspect they have their eyes on something else that will be easier to prove.  The undervaluing/overvaluing is not going to be easy to prove.  Usually, there is an appraisal or some other basis for it.   It gets murky.   Values change.   My home's value during the recession was very low; now it's very high.  

The same is true with insuring a place.  Insurance companies will generally not insure something for greater than its value, but will for less than the value.   

It gets really murky and messy and hard to prove.   

I suspect they will look at a number of things, but I suspect they have their eyes on something a little more concrete and easier to prove.  

 

[welovesundaysatspace]

17 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

You Dems. are trying everything to stop him from running in 2024.What next are you going to hit him over the head with the kitchen sink?

Imagine “potentially running for president in future” would give individuals immunity against being investigated and prosecuted. All those small and big frauds like Trump would have the time of their life. 

[Caldera]

Excellent news, nobody is above the law and the prosecutor evidently needs access to the traitor ex president's tax records to see if there are any irregularities that point to criminal wrongdoing.

 

As far as I'm concerned, he can scream "witch hunt" all the way to prison, which is where his incredible journey is set to end. What a life, what a story!

[cmarshall]

47 minutes ago, KarenBravo said:

 

It was a 7-2 vote.

 

Today's vote in the SC to allow the DA's subpoenas was 9-0 against Trump.

[Sujo]

41 minutes ago, Credo said:

I suspect they have their eyes on something else that will be easier to prove.  The undervaluing/overvaluing is not going to be easy to prove.  Usually, there is an appraisal or some other basis for it.   It gets murky.   Values change.   My home's value during the recession was very low; now it's very high.  

The same is true with insuring a place.  Insurance companies will generally not insure something for greater than its value, but will for less than the value.   

It gets really murky and messy and hard to prove.   

I suspect they will look at a number of things, but I suspect they have their eyes on something a little more concrete and easier to prove.  

 

 

I think it would need to be a substantial difference in the valuation of the properties between getting loans and paying tax.

 

Probably the payments to mcdougall and stormy, to see if those payments were classed as legal fees.

 

maybe also the $70k for his haircuts for a year. Maybe ivankas pay for being a consultant to him.

 

Lots of cans of worms.

[Sujo]

2 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

 

Today's vote in the SC to allow the DA's subpoenas was 9-0 against Trump.

And it was a one sentence decision, like the last time he got one at the supreme court. Seems even they cant be bothered to give him the time of day.

[Thai Dan]

1 hour ago, vandeventer said:

You Dems. are trying everything to stop him from running in 2024.What next are you going to hit him over the head with the kitchen sink?

Most investigated President in history.  Nothing found.  The IRS has first responsibility to find wrongdoing in tax filings.  IF, and only if, they find irregularities, they turn their findings over to the DOJ, who will then take the investigation forward if, and only if, they believe they can convict.  None of that is happening here.  What is happening here is a New York AG looking at his business dealings, for whatever reasons.  Capone and all the rest were being investigated by the DOJ with assistance from FBI.  Not a New York AG.

 

The Dems have never had their own trees shaken so badly, and they have never been threatened with having their own cash cows shut down like this President did.  Therefore they don't want this guy back in office, ever!  But you guys go ahead and believe....

 

In the absence of evidence rising to what the media would have you believe, they/you throw hookers and hi/low valuation estimates out there and say Off With His Head.  Laughable, really.  Worst case: he gets hit with some penalties for erroneous valuations and has to pay some back taxes.  But since they haven't found anything in 5 years, I wouldn't hold my breath on any of it.

 

Of course, that's just my opinion.  Your mileage may vary.

[Stargeezr]

Aww poor Donny, well I do hope he will be a poor guy in the future. Karma!

   I think he will look great in an orange jump suit.  and prison bars for scenery,

oh what a nice future for Donny.  

Geezer

[tilaceer]

56 minutes ago, Thai Dan said:

Most investigated President in history.  Nothing found.  The IRS has first responsibility to find wrongdoing in tax filings.  IF, and only if, they find irregularities, they turn their findings over to the DOJ, who will then take the investigation forward if, and only if, they believe they can convict.  None of that is happening here.  What is happening here is a New York AG looking at his business dealings, for whatever reasons.  Capone and all the rest were being investigated by the DOJ with assistance from FBI.  Not a New York AG.

 

The Dems have never had their own trees shaken so badly, and they have never been threatened with having their own cash cows shut down like this President did.  Therefore they don't want this guy back in office, ever!  But you guys go ahead and believe....

 

In the absence of evidence rising to what the media would have you believe, they/you throw hookers and hi/low valuation estimates out there and say Off With His Head.  Laughable, really.  Worst case: he gets hit with some penalties for erroneous valuations and has to pay some back taxes.  But since they haven't found anything in 5 years, I wouldn't hold my breath on any of it.

 

Of course, that's just my opinion.  Your mileage may vary.

Most investigated because he is the most corrupt.
Nothing found ? Investigations are still ongoing !
Please provide information on any investigations that have since concluded and exonerated him.

IRS has the first responsibility ?

 

"The United States Attorney’s Office may initiate or decline prosecution of direct referral matters without first obtaining Tax Division approval, but in all other tax matters may initiate proceedings only after the Tax Division authorizes prosecution.
In New York, there are multiple agencies that investigate tax fraud claims. Statewide, the Attorney General’s office uses the Criminal Enforcement and Financial Crimes Bureau to investigate and prosecute these crimes. More locally, it is the individual police departments and district attorney’s offices who will investigate and prosecute. In Manhattan, the Investigation Division is primarily responsible for looking into white collar crimes.'

 

You are 100% correct. The rest is opinion, therefore cannot be argued.

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Thai Dan said:

Most investigated President in history.  Nothing found.  The IRS has first responsibility to find wrongdoing in tax filings.  IF, and only if, they find irregularities, they turn their findings over to the DOJ, who will then take the investigation forward if, and only if, they believe they can convict.  None of that is happening here.  What is happening here is a New York AG looking at his business dealings, for whatever reasons.  Capone and all the rest were being investigated by the DOJ with assistance from FBI.  Not a New York AG.

 

The Dems have never had their own trees shaken so badly, and they have never been threatened with having their own cash cows shut down like this President did.  Therefore they don't want this guy back in office, ever!  But you guys go ahead and believe....

 

In the absence of evidence rising to what the media would have you believe, they/you throw hookers and hi/low valuation estimates out there and say Off With His Head.  Laughable, really.  Worst case: he gets hit with some penalties for erroneous valuations and has to pay some back taxes.  But since they haven't found anything in 5 years, I wouldn't hold my breath on any of it.

 

Of course, that's just my opinion.  Your mileage may vary.

Nice try. It's not that they didn't find anything. The Mueller report specifically said it didn't clear Trump of Obstruction of Justice charges and cited several examples to back that up.

AS for other charges, do you understand that as President, Trump was immune to prosecution? And that he refused to turn over evidence to investigators and held them at bay for the length of his term?

And even if they had accumulated enough evidence to warrant a prosecution, nothing could have come of it until his term was over.

Edited February 23, 2021 by placeholder

[bendejo]

13 minutes ago, placeholder said:

The Mueller report specifically said it didn't clear Trump of Obstruction of Justice charges and cited several examples to back that up.

 

Anticipating the uncensored version of the report will be released, soon.

 

[Bluespunk]

5 hours ago, Credo said:

Hopefully, he'll write a book while in jail, "The Art of the Steal."

 

I thought that was to be the title of his whining account of the election he lost by a landslide...

[Eric Loh]

Trump may have created some catchy slogans but he sure got one nicely done for himself; “lock him up”. 

[Mavideol]

we have been waiting for over 4 years.... it's the longest tax audit in history  555

 

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpometer/

Donald Trump

“I’m under a routine audit and it'll be released, and as soon as the audit is finished it will be released."

All of the Trump-O-Meter

[Mavideol]

he has been repeating it since 2016

Trump pledges to release his taxes, again, but does not say when.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/22/us/politics/trump-tax-returns.html

[Mavideol]

19 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Trump may have created some catchy slogans but he sure got one nicely done for himself; “lock him up”. 

that's long over due

[Mavideol]

7 hours ago, simple1 said:

Finally! Based on the family track record I've always though trump organisation was involved with money laundering for corrupt Russians in the US, along with other criminal activities. Will be fascinating to read the outcomes of the investigation. Hopefully I'm incorrect with my assumptions, would be sad that millions of US citizens were duped to vote a criminal into Office.

hopefully you are correct and that may open the eyes of millions of his brain washed followers

[FritsSikkink]

7 hours ago, Credo said:

The investigation needs to be based on some credible reason.  They cannot just ask for the tax records and then go on a fishing expedition to see 'what they can find.'   

 

Unless the IRS is behind it, and it doesn't appear that they are, then they must have a credible reason based on reasonable suspicion.   

 

 

They do:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trumps-tax-returns-arent-the-only-crucial-records-prosecutors-will-get/ar-BB1dV8Wy?ocid=spartanntp

 

[Neeranam]

7 hours ago, simple1 said:

Finally! Based on the family track record I've always though trump organisation was involved with money laundering for corrupt Russians in the US, along with other criminal activities. Will be fascinating to read the outcomes of the investigation. Hopefully I'm incorrect with my assumptions, would be sad that millions of US citizens were duped to vote a criminal into Office.

IMHO, one could say that ALL developers/building companies in NYC  have to deal with organized crime organizations like the mob. 

[Mavideol]

7 hours ago, candide said:

That's the kind of thread about Trump that I like! ????

x 2  ????

[FritsSikkink]

3 hours ago, Credo said:

I suspect they have their eyes on something else that will be easier to prove.  The undervaluing/overvaluing is not going to be easy to prove.  Usually, there is an appraisal or some other basis for it.   It gets murky.   Values change.   My home's value during the recession was very low; now it's very high.  

The same is true with insuring a place.  Insurance companies will generally not insure something for greater than its value, but will for less than the value.   

It gets really murky and messy and hard to prove.   

I suspect they will look at a number of things, but I suspect they have their eyes on something a little more concrete and easier to prove.  

 

Not hard to prove at all

[Neeranam]

4 hours ago, Paul Henry said:

His own personal lawyer who was privy to the cheating and lies

Do you have any proof that Trump lied?

[Mavideol]

6 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

Please let him go to prison, please, please, pretty please with lots of sugar on top! 

he wouldn't survive 24 hours there..... please, please give him the orange suit

[Berkshire]

1 minute ago, Mavideol said:

hopefully you are correct and that may open the eyes of millions of his brain washed followers

These brainwashed followers of his will believe anything Trump says.  Even after Trump is unceremoniously shipped off to prison, he will claim miscarriage of justice and his minions will send him money.  Maybe in time they'll figure out that they were conned, but Trump will siphon every last dime from his cult followers.  You might say they deserve each other.

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Do you have any proof that Trump lied?

There's already plenty of evidence that show a pattern of trump claiming higher valuations of properties to banks and lower valuations to the tax authorities.

[Mavideol]

4 hours ago, Saddic said:

This was the only way they could get Al Capone...  No one escapes the IRS...

that's correct and there is a saying about that that goes something like that..... one can kill somebody in plain daylight in 5th avenue (or in California like OJ did) and with a good lawyer get away with it but owing and not paying  to the IRS one can get 10 years in jail

[heybruce]

7 hours ago, Credo said:

The investigation needs to be based on some credible reason.  They cannot just ask for the tax records and then go on a fishing expedition to see 'what they can find.'   

 

Unless the IRS is behind it, and it doesn't appear that they are, then they must have a credible reason based on reasonable suspicion.  

Did you read the article?  Your argument was tried and failed:

 

"The Supreme Court in July rejected those arguments but said Trump could raise other subpoena objections. Trump's lawyers then told lower courts the subpoena was overly broad and amounted to political harassment. U.S. District Judge Victor Marrero in August and the New York-based 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in October rejected those claims."

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, Thai Dan said:

Most investigated President in history.  Nothing found.  The IRS has first responsibility to find wrongdoing in tax filings.  IF, and only if, they find irregularities, they turn their findings over to the DOJ, who will then take the investigation forward if, and only if, they believe they can convict.  None of that is happening here.  What is happening here is a New York AG looking at his business dealings, for whatever reasons.  Capone and all the rest were being investigated by the DOJ with assistance from FBI.  Not a New York AG.

 

The Dems have never had their own trees shaken so badly, and they have never been threatened with having their own cash cows shut down like this President did.  Therefore they don't want this guy back in office, ever!  But you guys go ahead and believe....

 

In the absence of evidence rising to what the media would have you believe, they/you throw hookers and hi/low valuation estimates out there and say Off With His Head.  Laughable, really.  Worst case: he gets hit with some penalties for erroneous valuations and has to pay some back taxes.  But since they haven't found anything in 5 years, I wouldn't hold my breath on any of it.

 

Of course, that's just my opinion.  Your mileage may vary.

"Most investigated President in history."?

 

Really?  Are you old enough to remember the Whitewater investigation?  When the initial investigation couldn't find any criminal activities by the Clintons, Kenneth Starr was given carte blanche to spend as much time and money as necessary to dig up any kind of dirt on either the President or his wife.  That's how Bill Clinton was impeached for lying about a BJ.  Think about that; an investigation into a real estate deal led to the President being interrogated about a BJ.

 

Can you imagine what might have been found if Mueller had been given unlimited time, money and scope of investigation?  Can you imagine how long Trump would have lasted if he'd had to testify without lying to Congress?