94 Year Old Father Moving to Thailand

[donnacha]

Surely ER

3 minutes ago, Ebumbu said:

 

Yes, Elite is the way to go, but the price tag is going to be a very hard sell.

Sorry if I have missed some previous posts on this, by why not simply deposit $26k in a Thai bank and get a retirement visa?

If it turns out that Thailand is not a good fit for your father you can simply take the money back at any time.

Also worth mentioning that you can pay an agent to handle the application and avoid the need to deposit any money.

 

[Ebumbu]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Its good that he already has Capitol One. I don’t have either but both are very frequently mentioned as good deals for expats. It's always good sometimes vital to have backups. Things can go south with US financial institutions when you're living abroad. 

 

Well, wouldn't FDIC step in immediately, so no risk there, if under $200k in any one account? My understanding is that when an FDIC bank fails, regulators take over within a day. What am I missing? He has like 10 banks. Child of the Great Depression. 

 

[Captain Monday]

For now could he handle ASQ? At his age can he get 1 year covid-19 coverage of $100,000 USD minimum?

 

In ASQ you can watch TV 24/7 and there are many nice hotels but It involves caring for yourself (answering door for food, toilet,  ) in a room completely isolated. I have only heard of married couples/kids allowed to share.  Maybe wait. Then get the 5 year Elite and bring over. If his care needs increase transition to one of the homes. What is the minimum age I'm getting tired of all this bother.....

[Ebumbu]

1 minute ago, donnacha said:

Surely ER

Sorry if I have missed some previous posts on this, by why not simply deposit $26k in a Thai bank and get a retirement visa?

If it turns out that Thailand is not a good fit for your father you can simply take the money back at any time.

Also worth mentioning that you can pay an agent to handle the application and avoid the need to deposit any money.

 

 

No Immigrations visits each year. Pretty sure they'd do the 90-day report for an extra fee. Another resource to call if unexpected issues arise. VIP treatment and generally less hassles, I guess. 

 

[Captain Monday]

8 minutes ago, donnacha said:

Surely ER

Sorry if I have missed some previous posts on this, by why not simply deposit $26k in a Thai bank and get a retirement visa?

If it turns out that Thailand is not a good fit for your father you can simply take the money back at any time.

Also worth mentioning that you can pay an agent to handle the application and avoid the need to deposit any money.

 

There is a risk in case insurance is mandated. I think ELITE due to the expense would be the last to have a health insurance requirement mandated. 

[donnacha]

1 minute ago, Ebumbu said:

 

No Immigrations visits each year. Pretty sure they'd do the 90-day report for an extra fee.

 

Why not do the 90-day report online?
 

2 minutes ago, Ebumbu said:

Another resource to call if unexpected issues arise. VIP treatment and generally less hassles, I guess.

That is not what they do. The visa is called "elite" but there is no actual elite treatment. They are not going to be there to deal with "issues".

Unless there is some sort of insurance requirement for the retirement extensions, the Elite visa only really makes sense for people under the age of 50 who are not eligible for the retirement extensions.

Presume that there is a 50% chance that your father may demand to go home within 3 months. A five-year Elite visa would be a crazy purchase.

 

[donnacha]

Just now, Captain Monday said:

There is a risk in case insurance is mandated.

But is it mandated?

[Captain Monday]

3 minutes ago, donnacha said:

But is it mandated?

I have the O-A from Usa. I think you can still come here on a tourist or exempt and transition to an O without a yearlyhealth insurance requirement. How long will that last? I hope for the best and plan for the worst. 

[Ebumbu]

2 minutes ago, donnacha said:

Why not do the 90-day report online?
 

That is not what they do. The visa is called "elite" but there is no actual elite treatment. They are not going to be there to deal with "issues".

Unless there is some sort of insurance requirement for the retirement extensions, the Elite visa only really makes sense for people under the age of 50 who are not eligible for the retirement extensions.

Presume that there is a 50% chance that your father may demand to go home within 3 months. A five-year Elite visa would be a crazy purchase.

 

 

Fair. I didn't know that. It's not worth $15k to avoid once a year immigration visits. 

 

So far, the best visa option sounds like coming over as a tourist and switching to type O for retirement with an agent after arrival. Agree? He pops 800k in a bank upon arrival, ASAP. I'd rather not have the agent deposit their money because I think it increases risks. No need in this case. 

 

Or, according to Ubon Joe, type O can be gotten in the US now. I like that. Seems like I need to circumvent the insurance requirement due to age. OK. I think this is going to take many months, so Covid emergency will hopefully be resolved by the time he's on a plane -- if he chooses to take me up on my offer. 

 

In his state, there are ZERO appointments available for a vaccine shots. I tried online with the 20 closest locations to his home. USA is a nightmare, man. 

 

 

[donnacha]

1 minute ago, Captain Monday said:

I have the O-A from Usa. I think you can still come here on a tourist or exempt and transition to an O without a yearlyhealth insurance requirement. How long will that last? I hope for the best and plan for the worst. 

Sure, but I think plans regarding a 94 year old should stick to what the rules are today. If the rules change, and his father is still alive, they can deal with it then.

 

[Jingthing]

18 minutes ago, Ebumbu said:

 

Well, wouldn't FDIC step in immediately, so no risk there, if under $200k in any one account? My understanding is that when an FDIC bank fails, regulators take over within a day. What am I missing? He has like 10 banks. Child of the Great Depression. 

 

You misunderstood me.

I was mainly referring to US financial institutions severing banking relationships once they realize the client is living abroad.

 

[Ebumbu]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

You misunderstood me.

I was mainly referring to US financial institutions severing banking relationships once they realize the client is living abroad.

 

 

Is it against the rules to live abroad and have a US account? I have three US bank accounts. Never had an issue. I don't understand this risk as you describe it. 

 

What would cause a bank to sever relations with a large depositor who gets low interest and does all banking online? No sarcasm intended. 

 

 

[donnacha]

1 minute ago, Ebumbu said:

I'd rather not have the agent deposit their money because I think it increases risks.

The agent doesn't deposit any money. They pay a fee to an immigration officer to ignore that requirement.
 

3 minutes ago, Ebumbu said:

In his state, there are ZERO appointments available for a vaccine shots. I tried online with the 20 closest locations to his home. USA is a nightmare, man.

 
The USA may be behind the most advanced countries such as Israel and the UK, but it is miles ahead of the EU. If you cannot get a vaccine appointment in your home state, catch a flight to Florida, the governor down there has been doing a great job.

In any case, Thailand has not yet dropped the quarantine and testing requirements. If your father decides to come, aim for the summer when those expensive requirements will be dropped in favor of a vaccination requirement.

 

[donnacha]

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I was mainly referring to US financial institutions severing banking relationships once they realize the client is living abroad.

Can you give any example of any Western bank doing such a thing?

[Captain Monday]

With ELITE you still have to get another stamp yearly.

I think one must go to their office in BKK to do it.

I never extended it because of frequent entries but some members actually misinterpreted this and ended up on long overstays!

 

[lopburi3]

Just now, Ebumbu said:

 

Is it against the rules to live abroad and have a US account? I have three US bank accounts. Never had an issue. I don't understand this risk as you describe it. 

 

What would cause a bank to sever relations with a large depositor who gets low interest and does all banking online? No sarcasm intended. 

 

 

Money laundering regulations from Federal Government.  Many on this forum and elsewhere have had accounts ended when it was found they no longer lived in the US of A.  Banks cover there ...

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Ebumbu said:

 

Is it against the rules to live abroad and have a US account? I have three US bank accounts. Never had an issue. I don't understand this risk as you describe it. 

 

What would cause a bank to sever relations with a large depositor who gets low interest and does all banking online? No sarcasm intended. 

 

 

Its called the know your customer mandate. You've been lucky. Its a known fact that many  U.S  financial institutions are hostile to expats. Also if he does have a problem he won't be in a position any longer to appear in person at a branch to resolve it. This is a side off topic discussion. Like I said its good that he has a Capitol One account but even that isn't fool proof as far as expat issues.

 

[donnacha]

1 minute ago, lopburi3 said:

Money laundering regulations from Federal Government.  Many on this forum and elsewhere have had accounts ended when it was found they no longer lived in the US of A.  Banks cover there ...

I'm sorry but, even as a non-resident, I have over a dozen US bank accounts. Where you happen to live is irrelevant once you have established your identity.

Perhaps accounts are suspended if you fail to let them know that you have changed address, but roughly 50% of US bank accounts belong to non-resident, non-citizens.

 

[Ebumbu]

1 minute ago, lopburi3 said:

Money laundering regulations from Federal Government.  Many on this forum and elsewhere have had accounts ended when it was found they no longer lived in the US of A.  Banks cover there ...

 

How can one reduce or eliminate this risk? 

 

Do you get it back when you are a 94-year-old non criminal?  First time hearing this. It sounds insane. 

 

 

[Captain Monday]

6 minutes ago, donnacha said:

Can you give any example of any Western bank doing such a thing?

I had various issues with BofA and Wells Fargo over the years. Never with Schwab. One thing, thanks to covid-19 I have a solid US address now. Costs me in condo fees but probably dont want to give it up.

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, Captain Monday said:

With ELITE you still have to get another stamp yearly.

I think one must go to their office in BKK to do it.

I never extended it because of frequent entries but some members actually misinterpreted this and ended up on long overstays!

 

I think you can do your Elite annual extensions yourself at your local immigration office. At this time with no insurance requirements and always no financial requirement.

The Elite company only does services like 90 day reports for Bangkok area expats.

I suppose he could pay a local agent to do.a hand hold service for the annuals.

[lopburi3]

2 minutes ago, Ebumbu said:

 

How can one reduce or eliminate this risk? 

 

Do you get it back when you are a 94-year-old non criminal?  First time hearing this. It sounds insane. 

 

 

Nothing is taken - just they may request you remove funds and close accounts - that is why you want to have more than one bank account active just in case.  With his failing mental ability online access may indeed prove to be an issue in itself.

[Jingthing]

Just now, Captain Monday said:

I had various issues with BofA and Wells Fargo over the years. Never with Schwab. One thing, thanks to covid-19 I have a solid US address now. Costs me in condo fees but probably dont want to give it up.

Yes many people including me maintain faux US residences including phone numbers to placate the US financial institutions. But that can backfire as they change their security protocols. Such as always logging in from abroad, always using ATMs abroad, needing pass codes sent to US mobile number and whatever they come up with next.

[Ebumbu]

3 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Nothing is taken - just they may request you remove funds and close accounts - that is why you want to have more than one bank account active just in case.  With his failing mental ability online access may indeed prove to be an issue in itself.

 

I see. I'm planning on two encrypted laptops. One for him and one for me. I am backup in case passwords are forgotten or his laptop is lost. Whether he accepts that remains to be seen. And, I'd need to show him how to use mobile banking. Many challenges. But, with good will and love, practical issues can be overcome. If he stays in the US, he is facing involuntary guardianship, sooner or later. Possibly sooner. 

 

 

[mtls2005]

1 hour ago, Ebumbu said:

If you are aware of a process that works, I'd be grateful if you shared it.

 

Step #1: Obtain an independent professional assessment of your father's current condtion. This involves medical, pyschological, legal, estate and financial assessments. With those one can proceed with a couple of options.

 

Again, you're not the first to face this challenge. Dragging an aged parent half-way around the world? Maybe you're the first consider this option. Without an initimate knowledge of your father's condition I'd say this might border on the sketchy side?

[Jingthing]

26 minutes ago, Ebumbu said:

 

How can one reduce or eliminate this risk? 

 

Do you get it back when you are a 94-year-old non criminal?  First time hearing this. It sounds insane. 

 

 

Have backups! Consider maintaining a fake U.S. identify. He could also switch to an expat friendly firm like State Department Federal Credit Union. If he's a veteran there is a military oriented credit union  that is expat friendly. But don't have too many backups either as then things get too complicated.

 

[Ebumbu]

3 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

 

Step #1: Obtain an independent professional assessment of your father's current condtion. This involves medical, pyschological, legal, estate and financial assessments. With those one can proceed with a couple of options.

 

Again, you're not the first to face this challenge. Dragging an aged parent half-way around the world? Maybe you're the first consider this option. Without an initimate knowledge of your father's condition I'd say this might border on the sketchy side?

 

Working on #1. He does not trust lawyers. He does trust doctors. I'm looking for a local psychologist or psychologist for an assessment. Got father's consent on that last night. 

 

#2. You don't know me or my family and you are entitled to your opinion, based on nothing. 

[balo]

If I have a chance to die of old age in Thailand I would take it, it can't be any worse than a nursery home in the west.  

 

[Sheryl]

I've followed this thread closely as I may be in a similar situation in coming years (though hopefully minus the dementia aspect).

 

To get an OA visa he would have to meet health insurance requirements. About the only possibility for that would be Cigna Global expat policy or Close Care (NOT Cigna US!)  and they would have to be willing to sign the "Foreign Insurance Certificate" which they might or might not do. If they did, he would only be able to get the original visa and not any in-country extensions as that requires a Thailand-issued policy which cannot be gotten over age 75. So I definitely do nto recommend O-A visa for him.

 

A non-O visa for retirement (not O-A!) is a better option, will not require insurance for in-country extension but ever since COVID the Embassy in US has been requiring it for issuing the initial visa.  So you would still need to get an international policy and one that will sign the FIC. But would not face insurance requirement for an in-country extensions.

 

A non-O as your dependent as suggested by @UbonJoe is the best option but I am not sure the Thai Embassy in US currently issues these as since COVID I do not see it mentioned on their web page, only dependents of Thai nationals. Perhaps contact the Embassy or your nearest Consulate and ask?

 

Re bank accounts, I have accounts with 2 banks both clearly listing my Thai address and no problems. It helps to have a bank that is expat-friendly. If your father was ever in military service I recommend USAA.

 

I also recommend that you get a power of attorney on all his bank accounts, investments etc. I have this for my elderly aunt & uncle with USAA, and no problem managing their affairs , calling USAA on their behalf etc. Set all this up now while he is able to cooperate and give consent and make sure they are powers of attorney in immediate effect not contingent on future disability or loss of faculties. I would suggest a POA with each financial institution (most of them have their own forms for this) plus a single general POA. 

 

Please ignore all the folks telling you it is the wrong thing to bring him here.  For an oldster who is still active then indeed the adjustment to a foreign country can be traumatic and isolating. But at over 90 with dementia, his  world is going to be the home and he will be better off living with family than he would be living alone or in an institution (assuming those are the options - if there are family in US he could stay with that changes the equation).

[Ebumbu]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

I've followed this thread closely as I may be in a similar situation in coming years (though hopefully minus the dementia aspect).

 

To get an OA visa he would have to meet health insurance requirements. About the only possibility for that would be Cigna Global expat policy or Close Care (NOT Cigna US!)  and they would have to be willing to sign the "Foreign Insurance Certificate" which they might or might not do. If they did, he would only be able to get the original visa and not any in-country extensions as that requires a Thailand-issued policy which cannot be gotten over age 75. So I definitely do nto recommend O-A visa for him.

 

A non-O visa for retirement (not O-A!) is a better option, will not require insurance for in-country extension but ever since COVID the Embassy in US has been requiring it for issuing the initial visa.  So you would still need to get an international policy and one that will sign the FIC. But would not face insurance requirement for an in-country extensions.

 

A non-O as your dependent as suggested by @UbonJoe is the best option but I am not sure the Thai Embassy in US currently issues these as since COVID I do not see it mentioned on their web page, only dependents of Thai nationals. Perhaps contact the Embassy or your nearest Consulate and ask?

 

Re bank accounts, I have accounts with 2 banks both clearly listing my Thai address and no problems. It helps to have a bank that is expat-friendly. If your father was ever in military service I recommend USAA.

 

I also recommend that you get a power of attorney on all his bank accounts, investments etc. I have this for my elderly aunt & uncle with USAA, and no problem managing their affairs , calling USAA on their behalf etc. Set all this up now while he is able to cooperate and give consent and make sure they are powers of attorney in immediate effect not contingent on future disability or loss of faculties. I would suggest a POA with each financial institution (most of them have their own forms for this) plus a single general POA. 

 

Please ignore all the folks telling you it is the wrong thing to bring him here.  For an oldster who is still active then indeed the adjustment to a foreign country can be traumatic and isolating. But at over 90 with dementia, his  world is going to be the home and he will be better off living with family than he would be living alone or in an institution (assuming those are the options - if there are family in US he could stay with that changes the equation).

 

I appreciate your kindness.