hioctane Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 8 hours ago, smedly said: these vaccines have been developed using very new science there are some experts that are claiming that rolling out such vaccines during the pandemic is a massive error, I don't know and the scary thing is that they don't know either - they think they do Sinovac uses old technology (inactivated virus) so you should be safe taking that one! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mises Posted April 1, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted April 1, 2021 The latest UK government data on adverse reactions from 09 December 2020 (AZ 04 January 2021) to 07 March 2021 from the Astra Zeneca and Pfizer vaccine can be found here: Coronavirus (COVID-19) vaccine adverse reactions Please note these are stated as ‘reactions to’ not ‘events following’ Adverse Reports Astra Zeneca Adverse Reports Pfizer AZ fatal 289 Pfizer fatal 237 Total 526 Number of people jabbed to 07 March about 24 million so about 1 death per 46,000 https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55274833 Total to 11 Feb was 323 out of around 14 million or 1 death in 43,000 so in the last month 203 fatal per 10 million jabs or 1 death per 49,000. Fatal outcomes are much the same despite younger and presumably healthier people being jabbed. This is worrying but 1 in 49,000 chance of dying is very low and we don’t know whether they did have existing health conditions. The chance of dying from COVID if you catch it is said to be 0.3% or 1 in 333, clearly a very much higher risk. But what are the chances of catching COVID? For this the best model was the case of the Diamond Princess cruise ship last February. There was no social distancing, no masks, no hand sanitiser etc. so transmission control was almost non-existent in an enclosed environment and yet only 19% of people, went down with the virus – 712 out of 3,711 with only around half of those displaying symptoms. Only 14 died. Yes, very sad for them and their families but that is 0.4% which is pretty similar to the 99.7% survival rate quoted so often. And cruise ship passengers are hardly spring chickens. Only 14% of the crew caught it and none died. So if we factor in the 19% chance of catching COVID then the risk of dying from COVID becomes 1 in 1,750 which is still a much higher risk than dying from the vaccine by a factor of about 28. For myself I would rather rely on my immune system bolstered by vitamin C and D than any rushed vaccine as I believe I have less chance of a bad reaction to COVID than a vaccine over the short term. Long term, who knows, the experts seem to not know or disagree. Each individual needs to make their own decision. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hioctane Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 3 minutes ago, Mises said: The latest UK government data on adverse reactions from 09 December 2020 (AZ 04 January 2021) to 07 March 2021 from the Astra Zeneca and Pfizer vaccine can be found here: Coronavirus (COVID-19) vaccine adverse reactions Please note these are stated as ‘reactions to’ not ‘events following’ Adverse Reports Astra Zeneca Adverse Reports Pfizer AZ fatal 289 Pfizer fatal 237 Total 526 Number of people jabbed to 07 March about 24 million so about 1 death per 46,000 https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55274833 Total to 11 Feb was 323 out of around 14 million or 1 death in 43,000 so in the last month 203 fatal per 10 million jabs or 1 death per 49,000. Fatal outcomes are much the same despite younger and presumably healthier people being jabbed. This is worrying but 1 in 49,000 chance of dying is very low and we don’t know whether they did have existing health conditions. The chance of dying from COVID if you catch it is said to be 0.3% or 1 in 333, clearly a very much higher risk. But what are the chances of catching COVID? For this the best model was the case of the Diamond Princess cruise ship last February. There was no social distancing, no masks, no hand sanitiser etc. so transmission control was almost non-existent in an enclosed environment and yet only 19% of people, went down with the virus – 712 out of 3,711 with only around half of those displaying symptoms. Only 14 died. Yes, very sad for them and their families but that is 0.4% which is pretty similar to the 99.7% survival rate quoted so often. And cruise ship passengers are hardly spring chickens. Only 14% of the crew caught it and none died. So if we factor in the 19% chance of catching COVID then the risk of dying from COVID becomes 1 in 1,750 which is still a much higher risk than dying from the vaccine by a factor of about 28. For myself I would rather rely on my immune system bolstered by vitamin C and D than any rushed vaccine as I believe I have less chance of a bad reaction to COVID than a vaccine over the short term. Long term, who knows, the experts seem to not know or disagree. Each individual needs to make their own decision. The issue is that 0.3% chance of dying is across ALL age and health groups. If you are older and/or have health conditions, your risk of death is significantly higher. You might wonder if you are at not at risk why should you take it? You risk spreading it to those that are not inoculated yet and/or those that refuse to take it and prolonging the pandemic. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yogavnture Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 With the chinese vaccine. no thanks 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenBravo Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 1 hour ago, IamNoone88 said: I will wait for the Gold Standard Moderna or Pfizer vaccine, thank you from a private hospital. Yes, me, too. Not interested in the AZ, Russian, or Chinese vaccines. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smedly Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 3 hours ago, wensiensheng said: They are doing under 60’s first. Says so in the article. That’s the “sorry but”. Nothing at all to do with macron or anyone else elsewhere in the world. that was my point - why ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smedly Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 29 minutes ago, hioctane said: Sinovac uses old technology (inactivated virus) so you should be safe taking that one! I'll pass thanks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainCarrot Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 1 hour ago, johnarth said: man I am feeling sheepish about this, what is going to happen in a few months time? Then I'd keep away from the Welsh (and the antipodeans) :) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertson468 Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, foreverlomsak said: Where did you dig up this "fact", only thing I've ever seen is annual boosters (like flu jabs) being muted as a possibility? More fake news from pacman an unqualified keyboard warrior! The adverse rumour about Astra was spread by Macron, (followed by Merkle) who has made such an outstanding nonesense of innoculations that he had to find someone else to blame. He is without doubt a first class idiot and I am convinced that the French People will not vote this Mummy's Boy back in power. Sadly he does not realise that most of the World can see right through his rediculous ploy. Edited April 1, 2021 by robertson468 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsari Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 15 hours ago, bkk6060 said: They are offering what seem to be the 2 most controversial vaccines Astrazeneca and Sinovac. Good luck to those expats in Phuket. Astra Zeneca is controversial as there has been signs of blood clotting . What is controversial about Sinovac ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mises Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 33 minutes ago, hioctane said: The issue is that 0.3% chance of dying is across ALL age and health groups. If you are older and/or have health conditions, your risk of death is significantly higher. You might wonder if you are at not at risk why should you take it? You risk spreading it to those that are not inoculated yet and/or those that refuse to take it and prolonging the pandemic. I agree your first point hence I stated each individual should make thier own decision. As I understand it none of the vaccines claim to stop you catching COVID, they claim to reduce the symptoms especially severe cases so your second point is not correct. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerolamo Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 14 hours ago, Rhacsyn said: As an ageing UK educated expat here and restricted from travelling to Dubai (where I have residency visa and access to vacvine) or even UK, I have to say it is good news for me. I will do my utmost to get vaccinated. Most people who get vaccines or medication during their lifetimes never ask where it comes from or for sure never realistically check the paperwork always included which discusses, amongst other things, potential side effects etc. Every medication has a potential for side effects but the numbers are tiny so why suddenly look so closely and be scared by the same tiny numbers involved in Covid 19 vaccines, a vaccine, which like other vaccines, has been proven to work. are you joking or is it serious ? You don't know the difference between a vaccine and a genetic technology ? What are you talking about ? The reality is not so simple as you seems to be able to thinking about it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjuk Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 I'm 71. Astra Zeneca for me please if I am given a choice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerolamo Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 9 hours ago, smedly said: these vaccines have been developed using very new science there are some experts that are claiming that rolling out such vaccines during the pandemic is a massive error, I don't know and the scary thing is that they don't know either - they think they do Mme Henrion Caude, who know better than you or me, or any other there, explain that this pretty new technology (that she is an eminent world wide recognized to be a specialist of the genetic things concerned) was done so quick that they remove 6 proceed step tests necessary to pretend to be safe. Not one, not two... SIX ! So, if you pretend (to much i think) to have some little knowledge around this concerned things, please, show us instead of spread fakes. Do not panic, people who panic easy are the one who make the boat sick to over charge the problem instead of provide any solutions. We can have opinions, but we can not pretend seriously that this opinion is upper than facts. These 6 proceed step missing are not an opinion though... this is fact. Hope you can split what is a fact and what is an opinion for you can see better and stop to denigrate people around. After said that, to think that it is a good idea to spread widely a new technology that has be poor tested, it is an opinion (that i can respect as you do what you want with YOUR life), but please, do not deny facts and spread fakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russel Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 If I really have to be vaccinated then I just want the Sputnik or nothing at all 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickmondo Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 15 hours ago, zzzzz said: and if ur over 60??? sorry but....... Vitamin D. lots of it. you will be fine 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerolamo Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 59 minutes ago, hioctane said: The issue is that 0.3% chance of dying is across ALL age and health groups. If you are older and/or have health conditions, your risk of death is significantly higher. You might wonder if you are at not at risk why should you take it? You risk spreading it to those that are not inoculated yet and/or those that refuse to take it and prolonging the pandemic. that's absolutely correct that after 70 years old and for those with excessive Cholesterol (or Diabetic) or very fragile ones, the risk increase considerably (i see it can goes up to 25% or mortality rate of the sick ones, not the infected ones... not the same). For your second part, it is definitely wrong, and, as said, a mystification and a misunderstand of the problem for many reasons. First, the virus mutated a lot (as other do usually) and no one can predict if the "vaccine" (even for the non-vaccine but genetic products) will be efficient for wide spectral mutated ones. Second, you can be vaccinated and spread the virus. The idea that a vaccinated one doesn't spread the concerned virus is half wrong. It is half true if (in the same time) everybody vaccinated and vaccines are efficient and virus only have a life in humans body. So actually, no one know exactly any of these 3 conditions. So how can you pretend something no one can provide any demonstration ? i will never be persuaded, i prefer to be convinced, and without proof and with low indication, i can not reasonably be convinced by any vaccine or genetic products quickly made. But... they have many products on the market now... feel free to to test them, but not enforce the other to follow you, please. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post stevenl Posted April 1, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted April 1, 2021 4 hours ago, pacman32 said: With such a small amount of deaths to Covid in Thailand why would you risk it? I know of 1 person for sure that has died from a blood clot after having the astra zeneca jab. But it's not being reported, he was only 32 years old too ???? Think carefully before you sign up to life long 4 times a year unsafe injections.. 'With such a small amount of deaths to Covid in Thailand why would you risk it? ' Thailand has been isolating, hence small number of deaths. But it will open up, exposing the people here to others. So in order to prevent the number of deaths to rise significantly the population, including expats, has to be vaccinated. That's why. 'I know of 1 person for sure that has died from a blood clot after having the astra zeneca jab. But it's not being reported, he was only 32 years old too' Scaremongering, deaths due to blood cloths are being reported, even more so if it can be assigned to the jabs.. "Think carefully before you sign up to life long 4 times a year unsafe injections.. " Totally and utterly nonsense. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerolamo Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 23 minutes ago, pjuk said: I'm 71. Astra Zeneca for me please if I am given a choice. to choose ? no money, no honey... Paracetamol, morning, and evening. We will cal you if we need to test something new and cheap. NEXT ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerolamo Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Mises said: The latest UK government data on adverse reactions from 09 December 2020 (AZ 04 January 2021) to 07 March 2021 from the Astra Zeneca and Pfizer vaccine can be found here: Coronavirus (COVID-19) vaccine adverse reactions Please note these are stated as ‘reactions to’ not ‘events following’ Adverse Reports Astra Zeneca Adverse Reports Pfizer AZ fatal 289 Pfizer fatal 237 Total 526 Number of people jabbed to 07 March about 24 million so about 1 death per 46,000 https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55274833 Total to 11 Feb was 323 out of around 14 million or 1 death in 43,000 so in the last month 203 fatal per 10 million jabs or 1 death per 49,000. Fatal outcomes are much the same despite younger and presumably healthier people being jabbed. This is worrying but 1 in 49,000 chance of dying is very low and we don’t know whether they did have existing health conditions. The chance of dying from COVID if you catch it is said to be 0.3% or 1 in 333, clearly a very much higher risk. But what are the chances of catching COVID? For this the best model was the case of the Diamond Princess cruise ship last February. There was no social distancing, no masks, no hand sanitiser etc. so transmission control was almost non-existent in an enclosed environment and yet only 19% of people, went down with the virus – 712 out of 3,711 with only around half of those displaying symptoms. Only 14 died. Yes, very sad for them and their families but that is 0.4% which is pretty similar to the 99.7% survival rate quoted so often. And cruise ship passengers are hardly spring chickens. Only 14% of the crew caught it and none died. So if we factor in the 19% chance of catching COVID then the risk of dying from COVID becomes 1 in 1,750 which is still a much higher risk than dying from the vaccine by a factor of about 28. For myself I would rather rely on my immune system bolstered by vitamin C and D than any rushed vaccine as I believe I have less chance of a bad reaction to COVID than a vaccine over the short term. Long term, who knows, the experts seem to not know or disagree. Each individual needs to make their own decision. i would like to order a test for show how many don't need any vaccine and are immune alone. There is many, but they don't speak about that... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebumbu Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 Sorry, I am holding out for Sputnik. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Happyman567 Posted April 1, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted April 1, 2021 2 hours ago, Patong2021 said: Garbage. You claim that your "friend" died of an AZ caused blood clot. Ok. Did the autopsy actually state this? You make claim, but you cannot back it up with fact can you. Maybe you just want to sabotage vaccine roll out, yes? Maybe there is a clotting issue associated with the Italian sourced doses. It is strange that in the UK where so many millions have been dosed it is not an issue. Other countries which have administered large numbers of doses have not reported any deaths. Canada has given out 500,000 AZ type vaccine doses from India with several hundred thousand within the 20 day risk period and has monitored closely, but no deaths. Where do you get 4 times a year for unsafe injections? None of the approved vaccines requires 4 doses. Thank you I will be getting my vaccine. Hey i want my life to go back to normal and take off those bloody face masks and i want to travel 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerolamo Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 1 minute ago, Happyman567 said: Thank you I will be getting my vaccine. Hey i want my life to go back to normal and take off those bloody face masks and i want to travel Do you said that you feel in a kind of blackmail position ? And that you will submit, even if you have zero risk due to full immune condition ? wow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli42 Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 3 hours ago, nchuckle said: Who exactly are those 'experts' saying vaccination is an error? Every single statistic both from the trials and where it’s been rolled are favorable (even the blood clotting). You do understand comparative risk - where the risks of being vaccinated are far less than the risks of the real alternative of catching Covid ? What is the risk of contracting and dying from Covid for those 60 and under? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dene16 Posted April 1, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted April 1, 2021 5 hours ago, pacman32 said: With such a small amount of deaths to Covid in Thailand why would you risk it? Think carefully before you sign up to life long 4 times a year unsafe injections.. It has the potential to flare up at any given time. Granted, Thailand is not a hot spot for the virus abut you only need to look at other countries where it has escalated at an unprecedented small period of time If we all listened to you penicillin would still be undiscovered and millions would be dying every year 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 7 minutes ago, chilli42 said: What is the risk of contracting and dying from Covid for those 60 and under? The risk of contracting is high, as is the risk of spreading it to others, including risk categories. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post paul545 Posted April 1, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted April 1, 2021 What a load of BS. All these wonderful armchair Drs posting their findings here on TV. Nothing unusual on here. They must be the EU advisors for AZ & other rumour mongers about how safe one vaccine is V another. All I know is the reinfection rate in the UK and more importantly the death rate is now down to below levels seen as far back as October. I’ve luckily had my dose and looking forward to the second one. I for one was not going to wait to see how effective they were against COVID. The facts speak for themselves on all the vaccines. More people die of COVID than those who die who have had a vaccine and even the ones who have died no one can prove it wasn’t a precondition that caused it an not the vaccine. 3 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli42 Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 3 minutes ago, stevenl said: The risk of contracting is high, as is the risk of spreading it to others, including risk categories. “High” is the temperature I cook bacon at and how I feel on returning from a night on the town. It just lacks a certain mathematical/scientific precision. It also does not seem an adequate definition of the risk of dying from Covid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herfiehandbag Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 10 hours ago, smedly said: these vaccines have been developed using very new science there are some experts that are claiming that rolling out such vaccines during the pandemic is a massive error, I don't know and the scary thing is that they don't know either - they think they do I am reminded of a statement heard many moons ago, at a time when short hair, shiny boots and green pullovers were "der rigeur". "Ex is something which has been, a spurt is what happens when you put a drip under pressure" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Russel Posted April 1, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted April 1, 2021 26 minutes ago, jerolamo said: i would like to order a test for show how many don't need any vaccine and are immune alone. There is many, but they don't speak about that... Yeah, but we are talking about the immediate reactions but what should worry us are the medium and long term ones of which nobody knows anything about Let's not forget that it acts in the cell's DNA and once our DNA has been altered there is no way to fix it, then you keep it for the rest of your life, But not only this: the altered DNA will be hand over to the future generations It won't be never deleted 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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