Denied teaching license waiver after teaching 8 years

[mikeinnara]

I have been teaching at the same secondary school for 8 years now. I have a BA in English Communications and an MA TESOL. I was informed that Khurusapha will not issue another waiver for me because 4 two-year waivers is the limit.

Is there any way I can stay at my current school? 

I understand that I could work at a university with my MA qualification and wouldn't need a teaching license but I'd prefer to stay at the high school if possible.

Thanks for your help!

[ubonjoe]

Moved to the Teaching in Thailand forum.

[Preacher]

You should have known that 4 was the limit. The waivers were intended to give you time to qualify, in essence get a degree in education. That is what you should do between now and the end of your waiver.

 

Have a look at doing a PGCE to qualify. Several threads about that.

[anthony0339]

Not only can you not legally stay at your school but you can’t legally work at any school now as a teacher. What did you think was going to happen? You

knew there was a limit to waivers but you did nothing to get get your license when you had the chance and now it’s too late. I would suggest applying for jobs at local NGOs. 

Edited April 11, 2021 by anthony0339

[new2here]

If you want to stay at the same high school (which i am assuming falls under Krusapah licensing jurisdiction) then you MUST get a proper license - there’s no legal workaround... that said, there have been threads about trying to “modify” your job title to something that might not require a licenses - but that, to me, isn’t a viable idea nor one that i would personally place a lot of faith in.

 

as noted, the idea behind the temporary 2yr waivers is to give you the time to get all your requirements completed so that you’re eligible for and receive a “permanent” license.

 

So, in my mind, unless you can somehow demonstrate to TCT that there is some reason that has prevented you from getting fully licensed — over the past eight (8) years — I personally doubt they’ll change their mind at this point. 

 

[ThLT]

You have a master's degree in TESOL, Teaching English to Speakers of Other Languages. Unless it strictly needs to be a MEd, you might qualify for the teacher's license. 

 

 

Edited April 11, 2021 by ThLT

[mike123ca]

Go and sign up with St. Robert's for the teaching diploma in education. Then ask Grace for a letter showing that you are working towards your education diploma and send it off to Krusaphat asking for another waiver.

[connda]

On 4/10/2021 at 2:06 PM, mikeinnara said:

I have been teaching at the same secondary school for 8 years now. I have a BA in English Communications and an MA TESOL. I was informed that Khurusapha will not issue another waiver for me because 4 two-year waivers is the limit.

In the middle of Covid with a teacher shortage.  That says it all about Thai education.  Consider teaching in the private sector.  Less hassles and probably better wages.

Edited April 11, 2021 by connda

[AUinAsia]

You might need to work at a language centre instead now. 

[Hanuman2547]

Perhaps you might want to apply to one of Thailand's many universities and teach there until you are able to satisfy the requirements to obtain a teaching license for primary and secondary schools.  

[Preacher]

18 hours ago, connda said:

In the middle of Covid with a teacher shortage.  That says it all about Thai education.  Consider teaching in the private sector.  Less hassles and probably better wages.

 Teaching in the private sector also requires a teaching license. Only some fomrs of schools are exempted, such as universities and language schools.

 

But because of a teacher shotage one should no longer require that one qualifies, despite being given 8 years to qualify? 

[ThLT]

2 hours ago, Hanuman2547 said:

Perhaps you might want to apply to one of Thailand's many universities and teach there until you are able to satisfy the requirements to obtain a teaching license for primary and secondary schools.  

 

A teacher's license/waiver isn't needed to teach at university?
Also, I think a master's isn't needed?

Edited April 12, 2021 by ThLT

[puchooay]

27 minutes ago, ThLT said:

 

A teacher's license/waiver isn't needed to teach at university?
Also, I think a master's isn't needed?

A teacher licence is not required to teach at university as they are not under the control of Teacher's Council of Thailand.

 

Some will require the teacher to be qualified to a higher standard than the course they are teaching. As an example, if one is teaching BSc or BA, one will be required to hold an MSc or MA. Some universities, such as Radjaphat universities are not so fussy and will take just about anyone. The jobs are usually not the greatest as there is a lot of weekend work.

[kynikoi]

On 4/11/2021 at 1:26 PM, ThLT said:

You have a master's degree in TESOL, Teaching English to Speakers of Other Languages. Unless it strictly needs to be a MEd, you might qualify for the teacher's license. 

 

 

 

The master's degree needs to have 'Education' as the subject of study.

 

Masters of Education

Education Technology

Teaching & Education

Physical Education

 

You're done.

 

With it goes your B visa.

 

Even if you go for a low brow pgce, often they will most likely require you to actively be employed and teaching to matriculate.

 

After you graduate you'll need to be employed K12 366 days to even apply for the full licence.

 

Toast.

 

To all those in a similar situation the actual max waiver # is three. This teacher was able to pull four because he'd taught at the same school the entire time period. This is the only instance I've ever known four to be handed out carte blanche. Be advised!

[kynikoi]

On 4/11/2021 at 2:53 PM, mike123ca said:

Go and sign up with St. Robert's for the teaching diploma in education. Then ask Grace for a letter showing that you are working towards your education diploma and send it off to Krusaphat asking for another waiver.

This is the OPs best shot. If he doesn't get the waiver at least he won't have to listen to their 'professors'.

[ThLT]

16 hours ago, kynikoi said:

 

The master's degree needs to have 'Education' as the subject of study.

 

Masters of Education

Education Technology

Teaching & Education

Physical Education

 

You're done.

...

 

That sucks, especially in this situation. A Master's in TESOL (Teaching English to Speakers of Other Languages) is directly about teaching/education, and also directly about teaching English. The OP probably even got the MA  from a reputable in-person university.

 

Edited April 13, 2021 by ThLT

[Preacher]

On 4/13/2021 at 12:33 PM, ThLT said:

 

That sucks, especially in this situation. A Master's in TESOL (Teaching English to Speakers of Other Languages) is directly about teaching/education, and also directly about teaching English. The OP probably even got the MA  from a reputable in-person university.

 

Then get a letter from the university explaining that with this masters one is allowed to teach such and such students. 

[mikeinnara]

Thanks everyone for those replies. Yes, I was aware throughout the past 8 years that the waivers are to give me to time get my education diploma and that at any time I could be denied a new waiver. 4 years ago I made the decision to go for an MA TESOL knowing full well that with that degree I would NOT qualify for a teacher's license.

It just happens that with current circumstances I would prefer not switching jobs if at all possible but it looks as if staying at the secondary school isn't an option anymore. I guess I'll be knocking on the local university's doors.

Anyone here with experience switching from a secondary school to a university? Was it difficult?

[thequietman]

17 hours ago, mikeinnara said:

Anyone here with experience switching from a secondary school to a university? Was it difficult?

Much easier and less stress.

 

Go for it & put all that TCT nonsense behind you. 

 

Good luck.

[kynikoi]

23 hours ago, mikeinnara said:

Thanks everyone for those replies. Yes, I was aware throughout the past 8 years that the waivers are to give me to time get my education diploma and that at any time I could be denied a new waiver. 4 years ago I made the decision to go for an MA TESOL knowing full well that with that degree I would NOT qualify for a teacher's license.

It just happens that with current circumstances I would prefer not switching jobs if at all possible but it looks as if staying at the secondary school isn't an option anymore. I guess I'll be knocking on the local university's doors.

Anyone here with experience switching from a secondary school to a university? Was it difficult?

 

I interviewed with Chula CULI. Dropped my resume off and some months later had a call out of the blue. Perhaps almost six months.

 

Definitely more serious mindset which was perfect for me.

 

I made it through the first interview and the grammar test. All downhill. The process halted because I had to return to see my parents. Non refundable tickets booked and paid. Chula has a policy new teachers cannot take leave until after four months. I was to restart the process on my return but I'm fine where I'm at.

 

The job looked pretty decent, the money quite good but I was told by a friend all that big money might not arrive for years as you need to build your course load. I could in fact have been making far less than my current job. At my age it wasn't worth the sacrifice but damn I wanted to work at Chula.

 

Srinkarinwirot advertises often on Ajarn. The wages are mediocre yet up but I suspect you'd be doing a lot of side work gratis. Was in discussion with this university a few years back as well. It was typical horrible university wages. They were thinking of combining two jobs to double compensation for me but that was like 25 contact hours (insane) and they realized they'd get no free grad thesis editing if I was working those hours so talks fell apart.

 

Silpakorn has been advertising a few jobs recently on Ajarn.

 

KMUTT has job/s running now on Ajarn. Good up and coming school. Lat Krabang advertises every so often. Thonburi is the best of the three academically.

 

I really don't see any difference in the application process assuming you've been teaching at good schools and preferably Mor' plai. Better yet M5-6. Best M6. Good schools, students.

 

I wouldn't bother with anything below the top 10-15 universities myself (top 7 for me). Rajabaht, that's just a waste of a life.

Edited April 15, 2021 by kynikoi

[simon43]

On 4/15/2021 at 9:54 AM, thequietman said:

Much easier and less stress.

 

Go for it & put all that TCT nonsense behind you. 

 

Good luck.

Even better, put in-class teaching behind you and teach online.  Better money and minimal stress ????  The best decision I made several years ago.

[thequietman]

3 hours ago, simon43 said:

Even better, put in-class teaching behind you and teach online.  Better money and minimal stress ????  The best decision I made several years ago.

Doing the same, but continuing the class work as well.

 

Taking the easy Uni money and when that runs out - full time online. ????

[thequietman]

On 4/15/2021 at 3:41 PM, kynikoi said:

Rajabaht, that's just a waste of a life.

If it's the only Uni in your province, then that is what's available.

 

As long as I don't have to deal with Krusapa again, all the better.

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

You just need to apply for the 5 year license. It doesn't sound like you've done so yet, and have actually had your MA TESOL refused.

 

Google "seetefl tct teaching license" and go to that link. They do a pretty good dissection of the TCT license requirements. Among these they list, “Have a degree in another field and a graduate diploma in teaching profession with 1 year of course study”. Sounds like that'd be your MA TESOL.

 

They say they got this from the TCT site. Nothing is mentioned about that "education must be in the name" some are mentioning. In fact, there's an MA TESOL from a uni in Chiang Mai that is TCT approved.

 

As mentioned, I'd get that letter from your university describing what your MA TESOL is, that it's indeed part of the teaching profession, that it was at least a year of study, the research, practice teaching, and evaluations you had to undergo, and that it qualifies you to teach English at university.

[kynikoi]

18 hours ago, thequietman said:

If it's the only Uni in your province, then that is what's available.

 

There are these things that are called trains, planes and automobiles. They can move you from one place to another. Been around for 100+ years check into it.

 

Married and wife working? She'll make 50% more and instead of begging for a job in Nakon Nowhere she should find something in a few days.

 

18 hours ago, thequietman said:

As long as I don't have to deal with Krusapa again, all the better.

 

I've changed schools a number of times, four waivers, licensed processed. Zero issues. Must be you, your university and or paperwork.

 

Better to make less than 20k when (assuming competence and a modicum of ambition) you could be making 60k. Alrighty then.

 

 

[kynikoi]

15 hours ago, CrunchWrapSupreme said:

Nothing is mentioned about that "education must be in the name" some are mentioning.

 

What the TCT is looking for is teachers to complete courses in pedagogy. This is very understandable for those teaching prathom. In US above elementary school teachers will do their single subject and then teaching courses on top of that to sit exams and complete licensure.

 

MA TESOL is just a rung above a Delta. 16-18 credits of intensive ESL/EFL plus presumably a paper.

 

Personally, I have never known anyone to obtain a license based on such a degree.

 

Possible? Sure. But undoubtedly the university must be on their list of approved institutions. Non starter.

Edited April 19, 2021 by kynikoi

[ThLT]

2 hours ago, kynikoi said:

What the TCT is looking for is teachers to complete courses in pedagogy. This is very understandable for those teaching prathom. In US above elementary school teachers will do their single subject and then teaching courses on top of that to sit exams and complete licensure.

 

MA TESOL is just a rung above a Delta. 16-18 credits of intensive ESL/EFL plus presumably a paper.

 

Personally, I have never known anyone to obtain a license based on such a degree.

 

Possible? Sure. But undoubtedly the university must be on their list of approved institutions. Non starter.

 

Do you work at TCT? What are your sources? 

[kynikoi]

1 hour ago, ThLT said:

 

Do you work at TCT? What are your sources? 

 

I was with the school admin or hod when obtaining each of my waivers as well as other teachers. Instead of sitting around playing on my phone like all the other teachers I was helping, listening and learning.

 

Further, I did my license preparation and application entirely by myself. Had to go twice in fact because I applied year+ on contract (needs to be year+ on wp). Both times I spoke directly with a lovely and quite attractive woman who works on the backside doing checks and approvals. I asked a number of questions, many which pop up here often.

 

His degree might work assuming the university is on the TCTs list. Doubt it. If not, imo no chance whatsoever.

 

Technically, the TCT wants an Education based diploma or degree. Pedagogy! The study of child development and techniques that will equip you for competence in the classroom.

 

That's the precise standard. The others sort of slip through the cracks and they realize foreigners have additional options so are somewhat flexible. That's about the extent of their randomness.

 

TCT isn't arbitrary. Teacher's like to to think it is ~ but it's not. The only time things get iffy is when you've burned through waivers, questionable degree or university, paperwork isn't good or correct, timing is not correct.

 

The TCT wants to approve everyone. It's just trying to uphold standards. If you're application sucks, oh well. You had five+ years. It's not immigration looking for a bone to pick.

Edited April 19, 2021 by kynikoi

[ThLT]

47 minutes ago, kynikoi said:

 

I was with the school admin or hod when obtaining each of my waivers as well as other teachers. Instead of sitting around playing on my phone like all the other teachers I was helping, listening and learning.

 

Further, I did my license preparation and application entirely by myself. Had to go twice in fact because I applied year+ on contract (needs to be year+ on wp). Both times I spoke directly with a lovely and quite attractive woman who works on the backside doing checks and approvals. I asked a number of questions, many which pop up here often.

 

His degree might work assuming the university is on the TCTs list. Doubt it. If not, imo no chance whatsoever.

 

Technically, the TCT wants an Education based diploma or degree. Pedagogy! The study of child development and techniques that will equip you for competence in the classroom.

 

That's the precise standard. The others sort of slip through the cracks and they realize foreigners have additional options so are somewhat flexible. That's about the extent of their randomness.

 

TCT isn't arbitrary. Teacher's like to to think it is ~ but it's not. The only time things get iffy is when you've burned through waivers, questionable degree or university, paperwork isn't good or correct, timing is not correct.

 

The TCT wants to approve everyone. It's just trying to uphold standards. If you're application sucks, oh well. You had five+ years. It's not immigration looking for a bone to pick.

 

Thanks, that's good to know.

 

I think teachers should have the required training, however, one could say TCT/Thailand is strict with their standards, considering the state of English in Thailand. Many teachers teaching English are Thai and can barely speak English, salaries are low compared to other countries, not many foreigners wanting to teach in Thailand, etc.

 

Thailand is ranked 20/24 in English in Asia—it needs all the help it can get. Kicking out a teacher from the teaching profession in Thailand—with 4+ years of experience... to replace him/her with a fresh backpacker teacher doesn't help.

[kynikoi]

1 hour ago, ThLT said:

Thailand is strict with their standards, considering the state of English in Thailand. Many teachers teaching English are Thai and can barely speak English,

 

I agree with everything you've stated.

 

Nevertheless, you will find most established teachers have an Ed degree at minimum and take professional development courses annually. Is it largely ticking boxes? Yes.

 

Are foreign teachers held to a higher standard? Probably. But why would they want foreigners to work in their system that were at minimum as good or better?

 

The older teachers countrywide have often graduated from some dire rajabaht. Had zero possibilities to hone listening skills other than a cassette player at best. Speaking? Much the same. Where were these old teachers going to pick up such skills? Pronunciation, public speaking, reading? Writing stylistically speaking!?

 

So, it's grammar and that for me is great. Grammar should be taught in L1 imo and frees me up to do more interesting stuff.

 

Many university students have decent English skills. Unfortunately, the pay is abysmal for teachers. Upshot, most jobs pay poorly in Thailand. Maybe there will be a rethink.

 

I've met dozens of teachers that are C1 and dozens more solid B2s. Not great and students need tutoring.

 

I've had students with amazing IELTS and SATs. If you teach at failed schools you are going to have a very negative impression of the system. Students in the top 25 secondaries are doing alright. 

 

Teach in good schools. Don't blame the system. You can do whatever you want in your own classroom. Be that teacher, that spark and inspiration. If you're waiting on the Thai system to change that's going to be a long wait.