Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[Arkady]

After 4 years as a Thai citizen I finally got Siam Commercial Bank to change the nationality of my account today. I had previously made three unsuccessful attempts to get this done but was given run around being told to come back with more documents each time, including evidence from the district office that they had really registered me as a Thai citizen, only to be told at the end of the wild goose chase it was impossible to change a customer’s nationality to Thai. They could only suggest I closed the account and opened a new one as a Thai. This is refused to do and bided my time new faces appeared at the bank. 

 

It it took over an hour including several phone calls to head office but the new staff had a good attitude and didn’t show any signs of flagging or wanting to give up, as the previous lot did. At one point at the behest if head office they asked to see my passport, obviously expecting to see my “real” passport but I triumphantly produced my Thai passport. Then I was asked curiously if I used my Thai ID card for other business to do with credit cards or banks. So I told them I use it exclusively because I am Thai and that’s all I got and that they were the last hold outs of all my bank and brokerage accounts.

[GarryP]

9 minutes ago, Arkady said:

After 4 years as a Thai citizen I finally got Siam Commercial Bank to change the nationality of my account today. I had previously made three unsuccessful attempts to get this done but was given run around being told to come back with more documents each time, including evidence from the district office that they had really registered me as a Thai citizen, only to be told at the end of the wild goose chase it was impossible to change a customer’s nationality to Thai. They could only suggest I closed the account and opened a new one as a Thai. This is refused to do and bided my time new faces appeared at the bank. 

 

It it took over an hour including several phone calls to head office but the new staff had a good attitude and didn’t show any signs of flagging and wanting to give up, as the previous lot did.

Bangkok Bank was a cinch. They updated all the records and I kept the same account number. I don't recall having any difficulties with stuff like this. 

 

What I find interesting is the very different experiences we all have. The way different banks handle the situation, the way we are treated by different District Offices, etc.  

[Arkady]

43 minutes ago, GarryP said:

Bangkok Bank was a cinch. They updated all the records and I kept the same account number. I don't recall having any difficulties with stuff like this. 

 

What I find interesting is the very different experiences we all have. The way different banks handle the situation, the way we are treated by different District Offices, etc.  

The inconsistencies are stark but not really surprising in a country where each official prefers to reinvent the wheel in his own way, often at the expense of the public, rather than just use existing wheels.

 

For me Bangkok Bank was the second worst after SCB, requiring two visits in the first instance and then another visit after it turned they hadn’t effected the change at all, despite a huge amount of rigmarole and time wasted. KBANK was head and shoulders above the rest - two minutes using a smart card reader on ID card and no documents requested at all which left me stunned and incapable of speech at the counter. Krungsri and UOB were second equal. Both took about half an hour without angst or calls to HQ. My brokerage accounts were quite easy but all changed the language of mailings I receive to Thai, despite my requests not to do so, which means the copious mailings they still have to send in hard copy by law, get heaved straight into the bin, as everything is available in English online anyway.

 

If SCB had refused me again, I was going to empty the account bar a few baht with my ATM card and leave them with the stub and continuing administrative costs.

[Big Guns]

Sorry to hear your SCB woes. Mine was quite simple with SCB I showed the royal gazette, Thai ID, naturalisation certificate & housebook & my wife spoke to them to explain what I wanted & hey presto I had a Thai account ????

[GarryP]

3 hours ago, Arkady said:

The inconsistencies are stark but not really surprising in a country where each official prefers to reinvent the wheel in his own way, often at the expense of the public, rather than just use existing wheels.

 

For me Bangkok Bank was the second worst after SCB, requiring two visits in the first instance and then another visit after it turned they hadn’t effected the change at all, despite a huge amount of rigmarole and time wasted. KBANK was head and shoulders above the rest - two minutes using a smart card reader on ID card and no documents requested at all which left me stunned and incapable of speech at the counter. Krungsri and UOB were second equal. Both took about half an hour without angst or calls to HQ. My brokerage accounts were quite easy but all changed the language of mailings I receive to Thai, despite my requests not to do so, which means the copious mailings they still have to send in hard copy by law, get heaved straight into the bin, as everything is available in English online anyway.

 

If SCB had refused me again, I was going to empty the account bar a few baht with my ATM card and leave them with the stub and continuing administrative costs.

UOB was straightforward for me too. Not being a rich fellow I only have accounts with BBL and UOB. Credit cards were straight forward too as were mutual fund accounts. 

[samran]

4 hours ago, Arkady said:

After 4 years as a Thai citizen I finally got Siam Commercial Bank to change the nationality of my account today. I had previously made three unsuccessful attempts to get this done but was given run around being told to come back with more documents each time, including evidence from the district office that they had really registered me as a Thai citizen, only to be told at the end of the wild goose chase it was impossible to change a customer’s nationality to Thai. They could only suggest I closed the account and opened a new one as a Thai. This is refused to do and bided my time new faces appeared at the bank. 

 

It it took over an hour including several phone calls to head office but the new staff had a good attitude and didn’t show any signs of flagging or wanting to give up, as the previous lot did. At one point at the behest if head office they asked to see my passport, obviously expecting to see my “real” passport but I triumphantly produced my Thai passport. Then I was asked curiously if I used my Thai ID card for other business to do with credit cards or banks. So I told them I use it exclusively because I am Thai and that’s all I got and that they were the last hold outs of all my bank and brokerage accounts.

Any experience changing over your Thai DL?

 

My wife’s expires next month and from memory she used her yellow TB last time. Now she’s a citizen will there be an issue in having her ID number changed over on the DL?

[GarryP]

3 minutes ago, samran said:

Any experience changing over your Thai DL?

 

My wife’s expires next month and from memory she used her yellow TB last time. Now she’s a citizen will there be an issue in having her ID number changed over on the DL?

It was no problem for me at all. Copy of naturalization certificate (cant remember the proper title), copy of Royal Gazette, ID card, house registration and existing driving license. 

[Neeranam]

On 1/9/2019 at 2:00 PM, GarryP said:

Yes. At first I could not work it out, but your theory makes sense. When I applied, I was on the border of the points cut off so needed as many points as I could get from Thai language. Luckily, I am fluent in spoken Thai.  

I was on about 47 points, so they told me to learn the songs. I was surprised to find that the UK embassy verified my degree, so that got me over the 50. Actually, I had a post graduate diploma, which was translated to a master's, and this took me over the 50. 

[Kwarium]

On 10/31/2017 at 3:43 PM, samran said:

congrats! My wife sorted hers two years ago this week, as FB reminds me.

 

Did you go to immigration to get your current visa cancelled? I don't know if everyone does here, my wife did. It was a nearly all day experience!

Done on Christmas Day! 4.5 years from SB application to Thai ID.

 

I am confused about my current 1 year permission to stay now that I have a Thai ID. It seems we should get a ‘cancelled’ stamp on the Thai visa in our foreign passports. 

 

When I go to visit USA, do I leave Thailand on that passport? If not they would need to see a USA visa in my Thai passport, it seems. Or can we just show the USA passport when checking in?

 

Getting an exit stamp in the Thai passport is needed to prevent hassles when returning to TH on the new Thai passport, right? Ideally scanned through the automatic machines I’m sure.

Edited January 13, 2019 by Kwarium
Typo

[dbrenn]

10 hours ago, Kwarium said:

Done on Christmas Day! 4.5 years from SB application to Thai ID.

 

I am confused about my current 1 year permission to stay now that I have a Thai ID. It seems we should get a ‘cancelled’ stamp on the Thai visa in our foreign passports. 

 

When I go to visit USA, do I leave Thailand on that passport? If not they would need to see a USA visa in my Thai passport, it seems. Or can we just show the USA passport when checking in?

 

Getting an exit stamp in the Thai passport is needed to prevent hassles when returning to TH on the new Thai passport, right? Ideally scanned through the automatic machines I’m sure.

1. Use your Thai ID card and tabien bahn to apply for a Thai passport. The application process takes minutes and the new passport is issued in just a few days. 

2. Visit your local immigration office and show them your Thai ID and US passport l. They'll cancel your permission to stay in the US passport, which you no longer need as a Thai. The SB told me to do this, so do it just to make sure there are no loose ends.

3. Use your new Thai passport to leave Thailand and your original US passport to enter the US. No need for any US visa in your Thai passport.

4. In the way back, do the reverse. Leave the US on your US passport, swap in mid air and enter Thailand on your Thai passport.

 

Show both passports at the airline check in for both directions, so they let you board your flights with no visas.

 

Your Thai passport will work on the automatic gates at Suwannaphum for both arriving and departing, so no need to face immigration officers and answer their daft questions anymore. 

 

Congratulations, and enjoy the convenience of being Thai.

Edited January 14, 2019 by dbrenn

[Rugon]

44 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

3. Use your new Thai passport to leave Thailand and your original US passport to enter the US. No need for any US visa in your Thai passport.

4. In the way back, do the reverse. Leave the US on your US passport, swap in mid air and enter Thailand on your Thai passport.

Don't show the Thai immigration officers your US passport on the way out, or in. I've heard of dual citizens being apprehended for this as the immigration officers don't know the nationality law.

[dbrenn]

29 minutes ago, Rugon said:

Don't show the Thai immigration officers your US passport on the way out, or in. I've heard of dual citizens being apprehended for this as the immigration officers don't know the nationality law.

Right. The simple rule is to only use your Thai nationality while in Thailand. Under the Thai Nationality Act, naturalised Thais can actually lose their Thai citizenship for using their original nationality, so only use it when outside Thailand, and refuse to use it in Thailand even if asked to. 

[Neeranam]

59 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

Right. The simple rule is to only use your Thai nationality while in Thailand. Under the Thai Nationality Act, naturalised Thais can actually lose their Thai citizenship for using their original nationality, so only use it when outside Thailand, and refuse to use it in Thailand even if asked to. 

Interesting. What about naturalized US citizens, could they lose one of their nationalities if using their US status in Thailand? There's a lot of confusion about this issue.

[yankee99]

4 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Interesting. What about naturalized US citizens, could they lose one of their nationalities if using their US status in Thailand? There's a lot of confusion about this issue.

you wont lose your usa citizenship 

[dbrenn]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

Interesting. What about naturalized US citizens, could they lose one of their nationalities if using their US status in Thailand? There's a lot of confusion about this issue.

I was referring to Section 19 of the Thai Nationality Act, which describes ways in which people who have acquired Thai nationality via naturalisation can lose it again. An English translation appears below:

 

>>>>>>

Section 19. The Minister is empowered to revoke Thai nationality of a person who acquires Thai nationality by naturalization if it appears that:

(1) The naturalization was effected by concealment of facts or making any statement false in material particular;
(2) There is evidence to show that he still makes use of his former nationality;
(3) He commits any act prejudicial to the security or conflicting the interests of the State, or amounting to an insult to the nation;
(4) He commits any act contrary to public order or good morals;
(5) He has resided abroad without having a domicile in Thailand for more than five years;
(6) He still retains the nationality of the country at war with Thailand.
The revocation of Thai nationality under this Section may extend to children of a person whose Thai nationality is revoked, in case such children are not sui juris and acquire Thai nationality under Section 12 paragraph two. The Minister shall, after the order for revocation of Thai nationality has been given, submit the matter to the King.

<<<<<<

 

The implication is that if you 'use' your US citizenship in Thailand, you could lose your Thai citizenship. I'm not sure under what circumstances this law would be enforced, but why risk it - I never ever use my old nationality while in Thailand, even if asked by an official who has no right to ask.

 

[Neeranam]

18 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

19. The Minister is empowered to revoke Thai nationality of a person who acquires Thai nationality by naturalization if it appears that:

(1) The naturalization was effected by concealment of facts or making any statement false in material particular;
(2) There is evidence to show that he still makes use of his former nationality;

So, theoretically, the minister can revoke Thai citizenship if the person uses their US/UK passport for anything, anywhere.

I know this is highly unlikely, but there is a law.

[dbrenn]

37 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

So, theoretically, the minister can revoke Thai citizenship if the person uses their US/UK passport for anything, anywhere.

I know this is highly unlikely, but there is a law.

Theoretically, it would seem so. But it's easy to prove that you are using your former nationality if you do so in Thailand, and why do it when there's no need to? Much harder to prove if you only do it elsewhere. I'm guessing that this is one of those under-the-radsr things, but it's worth bearing in mind. 

Edited January 14, 2019 by dbrenn

[Neeranam]

17 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

Theoretically, it would seem so. But it's easy to prove that you are using your former nationality if you do so in Thailand, and why do it when there's no need to? Much harder to prove if you only do it elsewhere. I'm guessing that this is one of those under-the-radsr things, but it's worth bearing in mind. 

I agree.

When people ask me if me having dual citizenship is legal, I am not sure what to say.

I guess that there is a law saying I can't use my former one, so it is illegal.

[Kwarium]

8 hours ago, dbrenn said:

1. Use your Thai ID card and tabien bahn to apply for a Thai passport. The application process takes minutes and the new passport is issued in just a few days. 

2. Visit your local immigration office and show them your Thai ID and US passport l. They'll cancel your permission to stay in the US passport, which you no longer need as a Thai. The SB told me to do this, so do it just to make sure there are no loose ends.

3. Use your new Thai passport to leave Thailand and your original US passport to enter the US. No need for any US visa in your Thai passport.

4. In the way back, do the reverse. Leave the US on your US passport, swap in mid air and enter Thailand on your Thai passport.

 

Show both passports at the airline check in for both directions, so they let you board your flights with no visas.

 

Your Thai passport will work on the automatic gates at Suwannaphum for both arriving and departing, so no need to face immigration officers and answer their daft questions anymore. 

 

Congratulations, and enjoy the convenience of being Thai.

Thanks dbrenn, That answer is a classic example of why your thread deserves to be 300 pages long! Thank you!

 

I will go with the staff for my 90 day, but cancel the extension instead! 

 

Interesting chat on the whole dual citizenship thing! Best not to talk up having two passports too much it seems! I will take the advice to always keep it under wraps while in Thailand!

Edited January 14, 2019 by Kwarium

[samran]

6 minutes ago, Kwarium said:

Thanks dbrenn, That answer is a classic example of why your thread deserves to be 300 pages long! Thank you!

 

I will go with the staff for my 90 day, but cancel the extension instead! 

 

Interesting chat on the whole dual citizenship thing! Best not to talk up having two passports too much it seems! I will take the advice to always keep it under wraps while in Thailand!

My wife who became a Thai citizen a few years back went to the Dept of consular affairs in Chaengwattana to get her first Thai passport then headed over the road to Chaengwattana immigration to cancel her visa.

 

We arrived at the passport office at 10am and she was done in 30mins. 

 

I dropped her off at Chaengwattana immigration and she didn’t leave there till after 5 that evening. It was almost as if they wanted to give her one long final goodbye! 555

 

It can be a slow process to cancel the visa, but I hope things have changed. 

[Kwarium]

26 minutes ago, samran said:

My wife who became a Thai citizen a few years back went to the Dept of consular affairs in Chaengwattana to get her first Thai passport then headed over the road to Chaengwattana immigration to cancel her visa.

 

We arrived at the passport office at 10am and she was done in 30mins. 

 

I dropped her off at Chaengwattana immigration and she didn’t leave there till after 5 that evening. It was almost as if they wanted to give her one long final goodbye! 555

 

It can be a slow process to cancel the visa, but I hope things have changed. 

TIT! That’s nuts!

 

Hopefully my smaller imm. office will get it done quickly. I am no longer under their thumb and will not be waiting on them for hours! ????

 

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, Kwarium said:

TIT! That’s nuts!

 

Hopefully my smaller imm. office will get it done quickly. I am no longer under their thumb and will not be waiting on them for hours! ????

 

One of the main reasons for getting Thai citizenship. I can't wait to do this part of the process! Could you just leave the country and come in using your Thai passport, ignoring immigration?

[Kwarium]

14 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

One of the main reasons for getting Thai citizenship. I can't wait to do this part of the process! Could you just leave the country and come in using your Thai passport, ignoring immigration?

Yep, that’s the best part, especially the way things are going with Imm being in the news all the time!

 

It seems leaving works, but I would be coming in with an unused fresh clean passport! Should be fine if the machine reader accepts it! I’ll try for the cancellation first, and if it is unmanageable I’ll give em a mai-pen-rai and make a quick run for it with my passport of course.

 

 Good luck with your... waiting! ????

[Rugon]

15 hours ago, Kwarium said:

Yep, that’s the best part, especially the way things are going with Imm being in the news all the time!

 

It seems leaving works, but I would be coming in with an unused fresh clean passport! Should be fine if the machine reader accepts it! I’ll try for the cancellation first, and if it is unmanageable I’ll give em a mai-pen-rai and make a quick run for it with my passport of course.

 

 Good luck with your... waiting! ????

Thai immigration can't refuse a Thai citizen entry, even if they don't have a passport, but just an ID card.

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, Rugon said:

Thai immigration can't refuse a Thai citizen entry, even if they don't have a passport, but just an ID card.

Perhaps but you can be sure it would not be easy to do. It states a Thai cannot be denied entry in the constitution but you can be sure without a passport it would take a while before they allowed a person to enter the country.

[qualtrough]

It's been about 7 months since my NIA interview so I probably still have quite a wait for the MOI interview, but I have a couple of questions related to the latter:

 

1. Does the MOI contact you or the SB?

2. Does whoever contacts you do so by phone, mail, or email?

3. Do they attempt any follow-up if they fail to reach you the first time?

 

I would hate to contact them a year later only to hear "Oh, we tried to get in touch with you several times about an appointment. You need to start the process again...."

[GarryP]

24 minutes ago, qualtrough said:

It's been about 7 months since my NIA interview so I probably still have quite a wait for the MOI interview, but I have a couple of questions related to the latter:

 

1. Does the MOI contact you or the SB?

2. Does whoever contacts you do so by phone, mail, or email?

3. Do they attempt any follow-up if they fail to reach you the first time?

 

I would hate to contact them a year later only to hear "Oh, we tried to get in touch with you several times about an appointment. You need to start the process again...."

1. I was contacted by SB.

2. For my first interview with MOI I was contacted by phone and the letter did not arrive until after the interview. For the second interview, I learned about it when I called SB to follow up on something and dropped by to pick up a copy of the letter.  Had I not contacted SB, I may not have even learned about the interview until too late.

3. I don't know.   

[Rugon]

32 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Perhaps but you can be sure it would not be easy to do. It states a Thai cannot be denied entry in the constitution but you can be sure without a passport it would take a while before they allowed a person to enter the country.

No perhaps, it's the law.  Once my son did it, as he lost his Thai passport when travelling.   

[Rugon]

3 minutes ago, GarryP said:

1. I was contacted by SB.

2. For my first interview with MOI I was contacted by phone and the letter did not arrive until after the interview. For the second interview, I learned about it when I called SB to follow up on something and dropped by to pick up a copy of the letter.  Had I not contacted SB, I may not have even learned about the interview until too late.

3. I don't know.   

Are there 2 MOI interviews? I thought there was only one.

 

So the MOI sent the letter to the special branch?

 

[GarryP]

18 minutes ago, Rugon said:

Are there 2 MOI interviews? I thought there was only one.

 

So the MOI sent the letter to the special branch?

 

I was an exception in that I had two interviews with MOI. Nearly all applicants have only a single interview.