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dbrenn

Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

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My husband called the number Samran posted today and they referred him to the website www.sb.police.go.th (in Thai) and told him to go and see our local special branch in Suratthani. I'm sure he probably said more than that, but we haven't had time to have a proper chat about it yet. Hoping to start the yellow Tabien Baan process on Friday.

Bwaaah haaa haaa!!! The circle begins anew!

OK, we tried Special Branch in Surat Thani, Provincial level and Amphur level, and neither office even knew it was his job. Nice man (provincial), but clueless. You need to make sure with the bangkok guy which office you are supposed to see. And perhaps get some instructions for him too.

GOOD LUCK!!

my advice, now you have the number naomisri, take it with you and when you are talking to the guy at Surat SB who is supposedly the go to person on this, call up BKK and get the two sides chatting.

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My husband called the number Samran posted today and they referred him to the website www.sb.police.go.th (in Thai) and told him to go and see our local special branch in Suratthani. I'm sure he probably said more than that, but we haven't had time to have a proper chat about it yet. Hoping to start the yellow Tabien Baan process on Friday.

Bwaaah haaa haaa!!! The circle begins anew!

OK, we tried Special Branch in Surat Thani, Provincial level and Amphur level, and neither office even knew it was his job. Nice man (provincial), but clueless. You need to make sure with the bangkok guy which office you are supposed to see. And perhaps get some instructions for him too.

GOOD LUCK!!

my advice, now you have the number naomisri, take it with you and when you are talking to the guy at Surat SB who is supposedly the go to person on this, call up BKK and get the two sides chatting.

That's what I was hoping to do, we did something similar in Bangkok Bank a while ago when we were trying to get a joint account with cards. We also have a lawyer friend in Surat who may be able to find out the right contacts for us - who knows he might even know the person. Will let you know the outcome SBK as soon as we get anywhere (relax in that case, it could be a while...!)

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Just an FYI for anyone thinking of making an issue, there are numerous reasons why anyone would want to obtain thai citizenship, whatever their reasons it is not anyones business to to slag then off or to post negitivity. This thread is not he place to spout off about issue you may have with Thailand or to quesiton other peoples choice to go for PR or citizenship.

Just in case anyone was thinking of trying to put a downer on this thread :o

.........................................................

BOO, jai-yen-yen

I don't think 'macaroni man' tried to be any cynical.

May be HE just curious, so do I.

WHY ?

My daughter was born in BKK . She came to the US at 6 mos old. Never been back since. She is an adult now.

Long ago, every five years, I was the one did everything to maintain her Thai passport. For renewing or getting new one, I did it all.

Last year she was telling me that she doesn't want to continue with this ritual. She sees no point of holding two passports (US and TH). All these years she had accumulated 3 TH passport but never use them once ( all three were blanked pages).

She's been using the US/ pp on all overseas travel.

I try to convince her to keep TH / pp , but so far no luck.

BOO, may be you can give me some tips how to convince her to see the benefits of having TH/ pp.

I hope it doesn't take too much time out of your convenience.

Thanks in advance.

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Losing Thai citizenship or gaining Thai citizenship?

If you were born 'Thai', but emigrated permanently to the US, and have no family in Thailand, then there seems little justifcation for retaining a Thai passport, other than for 'patriotic' reasons.

But if you are a foreign immigrant in Thailand, with family here, then the opposite arguement applies. Obtaining Thai citizenship is an assurance that your family will not be split up due to the 'moving goal-post' policy on longterm visas by various Thai governments.

Maybe it's a difficult decision to make if your existing nationality does not allow the holding of dual nationality.

For my family, I am very happy that my young Thai son is automatically eligible to a UK passport. He is Thai, but will have a big advantage over his colleagues when he starts job-hunting, (in many years). If he's fluent in Thai and English, and can freely travel/live in Thailand and any EU country, thern that's got to be good.

As for me, I'm working towards PR and then Thai citizenship, because I want to ensure that my retirement is not disturbed by longterm visa problems. But everyone has their own reason for seeking/not seeking Thai citizenship.

Simon

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Just an FYI for anyone thinking of making an issue, there are numerous reasons why anyone would want to obtain thai citizenship, whatever their reasons it is not anyones business to to slag then off or to post negitivity. This thread is not he place to spout off about issue you may have with Thailand or to quesiton other peoples choice to go for PR or citizenship.

Just in case anyone was thinking of trying to put a downer on this thread :o

.........................................................

BOO, jai-yen-yen

I don't think 'macaroni man' tried to be any cynical.

May be HE just curious, so do I.

WHY ?

My daughter was born in BKK . She came to the US at 6 mos old. Never been back since. She is an adult now.

Long ago, every five years, I was the one did everything to maintain her Thai passport. For renewing or getting new one, I did it all.

Last year she was telling me that she doesn't want to continue with this ritual. She sees no point of holding two passports (US and TH). All these years she had accumulated 3 TH passport but never use them once ( all three were blanked pages).

She's been using the US/ pp on all overseas travel.

I try to convince her to keep TH / pp , but so far no luck.

BOO, may be you can give me some tips how to convince her to see the benefits of having TH/ pp.

I hope it doesn't take too much time out of your convenience.

Thanks in advance.

Tinkerbell,

I'm in a similar position to your daughter, having Thai and Australian passports.

The first thing to remember is that your daughter will always be a Thai citizen, unless she chooses to formally renounce it. As such, she doesn't need to hold a valid Thai passport to prove that she is Thai. A copy of her birth certificate is sufficient.

As such, if you don't choose to renew the passport (or she doesn't) then no great loss, as she can always apply for a new one at a time when she thinks she may actually need it. Even though I am half Thai, I am happy to admit that the Thai passport isn't good for much except for travelling around some south east asian countries (where there easier visa rules for Thais vs Americans), and of course, if she chooses to spend an extended length of time in Thailand, to move and live here.

Otherwise, I wouldn't go out of my way to get a Thai PP if she isn't going to use it. She will always be eligble to get one whenever she feels like she will need it

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Thought I would post the translation a friend did for me of the documents required to apply for citizenship in the case of a woman married to a man with Thai citizenship.

There is a bit at the top that she hasn't translated which I'm assuming sets out the criteria for application, there is mention of the in excess of 15,000 baht for salary required?? Perhaps someone can do a better translation?

Forgive me if I have missed anything out, the original is on the special branch police website www.sb.police.go.th so go check it out there for better accuracy.

She simplified these things too so recheck for the names of the exact forms etc. My husband seems to be the busiest soul on the earth lately, but I will pin him down tomorrow on his day off and get him to read it properly.

1. Copy of marriage certificate (I would recommend making a good few copies, I presume this means you should have a translation certified by the Thai Gov in case of marriage outside Thailand.)

2. Copy of passport including visa.

3. Copy of Tabien Baan

4. 12 photos 2 inch size (not sure whether this is across or down)

5. Copy of birth certificate

6. For those married to members of the civil service, police army etc. Copy of papers (book?) to show husbands record of employment.

7. Work document/guarantee. I think this means evidence of husband's employment record.

8. Tax papers - she hasn't said for how many years this needs to be shown.

9. Evidence to show husband is Thai national

10. Copy of birth certificate of husband

11. Copy of husband's ID card

12. Copy of military document to show army service/exemption

13. Present Tabien Baan

14. Copy of husband's ID card

15. Death certificate (copy?) of Mother or Father in the case that they are deceased and not from Thailand (I think). Not sure if this is for husband or wife - sounds weird, anyone translate again??

16. Copy of ID card of the husband's parent or death certificate in the instance that they are deceased.

Apparently there is no mention of other proof of good character and such, perhaps this will be requested after the application is submitted?

Lastly it says if you are in Bangkok report to the there, if not you must report in your area, then it says something about applying if you are outside Thailand, which I didn't realise was an option until now. Then the number supplied to call is 0-2252-5961

Edited by naomisri

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quoted......."If you were born 'Thai', but emigrated permanently to the US, and have no family in Thailand, then there seems little justifcation for retaining a Thai passport, other than for 'patriotic' reasons.

But if you are a foreign immigrant in Thailand, with family here, then the opposite arguement applies. Obtaining Thai citizenship is an assurance that your family will not be split up due to the 'moving goal-post' policy on longterm visas by various Thai governments. "

...............................................................................

Thanks SIMON43,

The first paragraph is like my daughter's case. She never been back to TL since she left at 6 mos old. Does not know anyone in TL , except fews cousins ( who came to the US to further their study). She does not speak Thai either.

The second paragraph fits my profile. I was born, raised and educated in BKK. That's the reason I take my annual trip back to home country to see family members and childhood friends.

Why I still keep renewing hers and mine TH/ pp ?

Years ago a Thai from other State had a nightmare for trying to renew his TH/pp. He was like me, born, raised and educated in TL. After few years in US, he gained his citizenship and has been using US/ pp for almost 3 decades, forgot all about his TH/pp.

So when he planed to retire and move back to live in TL, he applied for a new TH/pp, he was in a real shock when the Thai Embassy told him that after a long period, the embassy moves all the records into ' Death Department'. That means he has to go back to TL to get all the vital documents to prove he is really that person and still alive. His parents were gone, some relatives who close to him are too old or sick (not much help). He went after some classmates who scater around the country.

No, I see myself couldn't go through like him. I rather to pay $50 and a little unconvenient every 5 years. As a matter of fact, I just flew to New York Thai Consulate last month to get a new pp since they require your fingerprints.

SIMON43, what you said is quite agreeable. may be my daughter doesn't really need to have 2 pps. after all. It's only me who needs to keep it ups to date.

Best regards and thanks again

Tink.

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quoted.......

"Tinkerbell,

I'm in a similar position to your daughter, having Thai and Australian passports.

The first thing to remember is that your daughter will always be a Thai citizen, unless she chooses to formally renounce it. As such, she doesn't need to hold a valid Thai passport to prove that she is Thai. A copy of her birth certificate is sufficient.

As such, if you don't choose to renew the passport (or she doesn't) then no great loss, as she can always apply for a new one at a time when she thinks she may actually need it. Even though I am half Thai, I am happy to admit that the Thai passport isn't good for much except for travelling around some south east asian countries (where there easier visa rules for Thais vs Americans), and of course, if she chooses to spend an extended length of time in Thailand, to move and live here.

Otherwise, I wouldn't go out of my way to get a Thai PP if she isn't going to use it. She will always be eligble to get one whenever she feels like she will need it ...."

...............................................................................

Samran, thanks for the words of encouraging.

Yes, she was born at Bangkok Christian Hospital in BKK. And I registered her birth at Umphuer Bang-Rak. She keeps birth certificate with her. I ask her to take good care this important document.

Her TH/pp dues on Mar. '08, most likely I'm just going to let her does whatever pleases her. The Embassy requires you to apply in person since fingerprints is mandated. It's not very convenient for her at all. The ride to the airport is almost 3 hrs plus the flight to NY is close to 3 hr. All whatever done in those years was no problem since we lived in NY at that time.

I'm doing the same, using TH/pp traveling around neighboring countries. Using US/pp travel to the rest of the countries in Europe, North & Central America, Africa and the Caribbean under 30 days no visa.

Best Regards and Thanks again.

Tink

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I have only just stumbled on this thread and it fills a real gap on a topic that it is hard to find reliable information on. Congratulations to Dbrenn for his orginal post and getting his Thai citizenship. Also thanks to him and others, particularly Samran, for the follow up. I have a couple of questions which I hope some one can shed light on.

Does Special Branch investigate tax payments and employment before the last three years' returns required? I heard a horror story that I can't verify of some one who applied outside Bangkok and had been living in Thailand without working for two or three years after getting his PR because he lost his job. Then he got another job and applied for citizenship after he had accumulated another three years' tax returns. The police in the province he applied allegedly accused him of working illegally without paying taxes during his unemployed period and he had to pay hefty back taxes on the income that was arbitrarily assessed for him and never heard anything more about his application. This story may be exaggerated or he may have some enemies in that province or both. However, I wonder if it would be a problem in Bangkok for some one like myself to apply who was not working for a few years after getting PR and then went back to work for at least three years.

Does your employer have to be a substantial company? I remember meeting a police general at Immigration years ago who explained to me that applications for PR from people employed by 2 million baht companies were routinely rejected by Immigration at that time, as they had an internal guideline of minimum paid-up capital of 5 million baht which was not publicised. I wonder if there is any similar invisible barrier to male applicants working for small businesses when applying for nationality. Special Branch assured me this was not the case but maybe they also have special internal guidelines that are not revealed to casual callers.

Finally, does any one have an idea of a magic number that is acceptable as minimum salary? As Dbrenn has said they are probably not too interested in an applicant who has paid tax only on the rock bottom salary of 80,000 baht for three years, even less so in some one being paid the minimum of 30,000 baht on the basis of havingThai dependents.

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If the Thai husband has been living overseas and not paying Thai tax, would overseas tax records be sufficient to show his income? We will be leaving Thailand and moving to Australia to work for a few years before coming back to Thailand. When we do return I hope our income from investments in Australia will mean that he (we) won't have to work again here.

Edited by Goinghomesoon

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If the Thai husband has been living overseas and not paying Thai tax, would overseas tax records be sufficient to show his income? We will be leaving Thailand and moving to Australia to work for a few years before coming back to Thailand. When we do return I hope our income from investments in Australia will mean that he (we) won't have to work again here.

I'd assume they would have to.

On the instruction leaflet that I have from the DSI, it is possible for a foreign female married to a Thai male to apply from the Thai embassy in the country in which they live.

Technically speaking, the form asks the husband to sumbit a tax retrun form Por Nor Dor 90 (for people with various sources of income including cash) or Por Ngor Dor 91 (income from salary). It also asks for you to sumbit evidence showing your hsuband earns more than 15,000 K per month - ie a letter from his company/employer etc.

Now, on the basis of my dealings with them to date, if you haven't got a certain piece of paper due to the fact that it is impossible to have that particular piece of paper, they tend to waive the rule or accept an alternative.

Case in point (for me) was the need for my Australian father (ie father of the Thai husband) to show his Thai alien book. This was a problem for me as my father has never resided in Thailand, and doesn't qualify for an alien book. Based on phone conversation, a copy of his Australian passport was acceptable.

My wife and I haven't actually submitted her application yet. We are still short of a few bits of documentation (eg I only did my tax return 3 days ago) and we are still need to get her a yellow Tabieen Baan. Once we have done it ourselves, we will report back....

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Be very careful about lodging applications and moving abroad as Thai embassies have nothing to do with the citizenship process. We had also seen otherwise on the documentation but the reality is they don't and I can assure you it's nothing to do with embassy staff being obtuse or difficult (at least in regard to citizenship applications) as my husband worked there. The fact is, the process is totally controled by the police department and the Interior Ministry. To have furthered the application I lodged a year beofre moving abroad, we would have been obliged to return to Bangkok at extremely short notice for the final Interior Ministry interview. Although we had advised the Special Branch officer who was handling our case that we'd be abroad, such a notification was received by our house minder two days before the interview was scheduled and we called the office to remind them that we weren't there, enquired whether someone at the embassy could conduct on behalf of IM and were told not.

The risk of not responding to two such notices is that your application is trashed on the assumption you're no longer interested. Even if you are here, I'd advise using the telephone to chase and check on the interview. I was called in for an interview within 2 months of notifiying my return but didn't get the letter until after the event as it had been delivered registered, no one was home to get it and the registration card was overlooked until it was too late. We called until we got thru to someone who scheduled me into the next group, a month or so later, and I got my rather useful ID card some months later.

Edited by chatette

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Thats soooo awsome inshallah i too will get it, Its my country Thailand and i want the world to know! I would love to sing the anthem god you guys are insane lol, but there is no need to bow to any kind of buddhist thing correct such as a statue :o

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just to revive this thread for a short while.

Submitted the application for my wife to apply for thai citizenship. List of documents include:

- Wifes PP - photocopy of all used pages.

- Our Australian wedding certificate translated and certified (or if you have it your Thai one if married in LOS).

- Wifes yellow tabieen baan.

- Husbands blue tabieen baan.

- Certification of family certificate from the Ampur

- Salary letter from my employer showing I earn +15K per month.

- Husband will will need to show the company certificates shareholders etc of the employer, or if he is self employed, details of his company.

- A copy of my tax return for 2007 (PND 90 or 91 depending on which one you needed to fill in) The tax department should make a copy for you, and then stamp it with an offical 'true copy' stamp, as they need to keep the orginal.

- The little yellow receipt showing tax return was submitted for 2007.

- Husbands parents details. ID, tabieen baan, or if decesased, the relevant death certs.

-For us, our daughters birth certificate (women who are married with a child have to be married one year before application, no children you have to be married 3 years).

- My ID card, and my passport with copies of all used pages (if I have one).

- My military exemption certificate.

- 12 photos of me and my wife seperately (4x6)

- 2 photos of any child you have

- 5 baht application fee.

Basic questions as to where you met, how long you've lived together etc are all asked. My wifes Thai is lousy, so I did all the talking. And that is one thing you note when you apply for a foreign female married to a thai male. The application is less about her, and more about the husbands standing, income etc etc. Most of the documentation in the application was about me (the husband) not my wife who essentially, only had to verify her ID and that she was married lawfully to me.

4 witnesses that vouch for you are also needed. We had one ex minister, his wife, a former deputy govenor who is now a consultant at the Ministry of Interior and a ML lined up. We were told 'such important people won't be needed' and that 'normal' people can vouch for you. So my mum ended up being a referee, and to save these other peoples time, I'll get a few mates to come on down next week to police HQ to sign that they know me and that I'm legit.

All of the documentation is now off to wherever it goes for verfication. If there are any problems, they'll get back to you in the next 60 days after application. If not, it goes to the Ministry of Interior, where it gets signed, doesn't get signed, or gathers dust until the minister can be arsed to sign it (who knows - he may be busy. His son may have not shot someone again and not be hiding in Malaysia).

So there you go.

Also, they've changed the rules for men married to a Thai. Unfortunately, the old 3 years on to get PR + 5 years on PR before you can get to the citizenship stage is back on the books. I'll post the new rules for males as soon as I can get to a scanner.

The offices where you apply are very quiet. We went twice before actually applying. Once to confirm what we needed exactly, the second time to check the paperwork, the third to apply formally. We were there for about 3 hours this morning, all up, and an extra 2 hours on top during the previous visits.

A few observations:

The guys and gals there don't have much to do, and were incredibly helpful to us at least. The application office is small with about 7 staff. I suspect that though (and I hate to say this) it is because my wife is Farang we were treated well. We had three couples come in during our total of 5 hours there. One burmese/Thai couple and one single Bengali or perhaps Indian bloke who speaks better Thai than most Thai's. They were treated in a pretty curt manner. What appeared to be a third generation Thai Sikh (sp?) fellow walked in, with his bride from India, and they were treated alot better however. But apart from that, no one else. Having said that though, we came in with all our ducks lined up in a row documents wise, and they were able to deal with us properly. None of the other couples we saw had much on them apart from questions....

I saw a few applications being processed. One Japanese fellow, and one Britsh lady of Chinese descent.

Importantly, I found out that the new government has already approved some applications this year, which was relief to hear. We were told '6 months'. Lets see if that is true!

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'My wifes Thai is lousy, so I did all the talking.'

'Also, they've changed the rules for men married to a Thai. Unfortunately, the old 3 years on to get PR + 5 years on PR before you can get to the citizenship stage is back on the books. I'll post the new rules for males as soon as I can get to a scanner.'

Thanks for posting Samran and the best of luck with your wifes application.

Picked these two quotes above out of your post.

Shame that there is not a level playing field for foreign men isn't it?

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