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Restaurant chains that don't use MSG or too much salt?


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The reason that MSG gets a bad rap with some people is that there was a very shoddily-conducted experiment in the 60s where they injected absolutely monstrous doses into rats, and the rats didn't fare so well (they were injecting 25g of MSG per kilo of body weight). But since then, no studies have been able to prove that it is toxic in any way, but the rumours still live on in some educationally-challenged people. When you consume MSG, as soon as it hits your bloodstream it dissociates into a positively charged sodium ion, and a negatively charged ion of glutamic acid, an amino acid. Both of which are already in your body.

 

MSG contains about 66% less sodium than table salt. It's not a "neurotoxin". Your nervous system uses that glutamate as a neurotransmitter, and every cell in your body needs sodium to survive. Some people, however, have already decided that it's the work of the devil and is toxic, but that's up to them I suppose. These people probably think that the Earth is flat and that vaccines make you autistic.

 

There are millions of restaurants, supermarkets and take-away places selling food containing fairly large amounts of MSG day-in and day-out. People are NOT going into comas because of it. MSG is added to a vast array of foods, do you really think this would be permitted if there were any studies proving it to be toxic?

 

Most people in Asian countries eat a reasonable dose of MSG every single day, and yet East Asian countries have some of the longest life-expectancies in the world. I'm sure that there are some websites spouting off about MSG and advising people not to eat it, but I can guarantee that the people writing this guff are eating MSG daily, they just don't know it.

Edited by BenDeCosta
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7 hours ago, BenDeCosta said:

 

Please explain what the difference is between these two "different" MSGs.

 

The name MSG is a specific chemical name, monosodium glutamate, if there was any difference then the chemical name would be different.

 

Those are just names, the industry can call them with whatever name just to fool people like you.

 

So natural leather and artificial leather both have the same name 'leather', does it mean they are the same? LOL

 

If the same chemical components are also in tomato, mushroom and what not like you claim, why do you need to buy another product called MSG from Ajinomoto which you couldn't answer earlier. 

 

Look I don't want to argue with people like you anymore. If you want to believe in big pharmaceutical companies or rich organizations like Ajinomoto who can influence media, so be it.

 

But don't tell us how we and lots of other people felt were all 'illusions' after taking that MSG.

 

Thirst is a sign that it is a neurotoxin and need to be flushed out by our body which we don't get by eating tomato etc. There are thousands of research (not influenced by Ajinomoto) that shows it is a neurotoxin, you do know how to google , don't you? 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 4/11/2021 at 7:21 PM, Ombra said:

Thank you. That's a surprise, though, because I would have thought that such a popular chain would use MSG. The missus will be very happy to know that we can eat in MK Suki.

He didn't say that MK doesn't use salt or MSG!  

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4 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

He didn't say that MK doesn't use salt or MSG!  

You're right. I made an inference based on a careless reading of what I thought was a response to my question.

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On 4/12/2021 at 11:29 PM, EricTh said:

 

LOL. You must be reading those Ajinomoto 'research' defending their toxic products.

 

Natural MSG and artificial MSG are two different things just like artificial leather and natural leather are two different things. I can list a thousand of others natural versus artificial products that are 'supposedly' the same.

 

This is the type of crooked argument used to fool people.

If they are the really the same substance, then why do they need to produce a special product and call it MSG? 

 

We can just eat tomato, mushroom for the same 'kick' then? See how weak your logic is here....

 

Whenever I eat tomato, mushrooms and 'thousands more' of natural MSG, I don't feel any of the headaches, thirst and lethargy that I felt with taking artificial MSG. How do you explain this?

 

Are you calling me a liar, this is a real life account from another retiree that I met at immigration who said he will go into coma if he takes MSG. Just because you haven't heard doesn't mean it's not true.

 

So don't try to convince someone like the Thread Starter and million others that what we are feeling are just 'illusion' or 'harmless'.

 

 

Thank You Eric.......

 

For the 1,000,000 th time Natural MGS and MSG made in a lab are a different as night and day......

 

Most all added MSG in food is man made MSG, and its NASTY NASTY stuff.....
 

Eating man made MSG over years and years and years it has a horrible effect on people heath whether they know it or not.....

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10 hours ago, redwood1 said:

For the 1,000,000 th time Natural MGS and MSG made in a lab are a different as night and day......

 

So, could you clarify what these differences are, when they are both the same chemical compound and have the same chemical name?

 

I genuinely interested to know.

 

The "MSG made in a lab" that you refer to is actually produced through the fermentation of molasses in a factory, a natural and normal process. It is not synthesised in a lab at all. 

 

The kind of misinformation being spouted in this thread is precisely why so many people wrongly believe that MSG is dangerous.

 

If you take any medications, I think you'll find that many are 100% synthetic, yet I bet you still take them. Because they work. Your body cannot tell if a molecule has been synthesised in a lab or is coming from a natural source. 

 

 

Edited by BenDeCosta
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12 hours ago, adexbe said:

You can be sure that any franchise selling industrial food must be healthy !

5555...

can't stop laughing !

 

 

 

Who mentioned "industrial food"? We were talking about a flavour-enhancer that is used in almost every home kitchen and restaurant across Asia, and is found in almost every processed food around the world. People are not going into comas from eating it.

 

Of course, pre-processed foods will be less healthy than freshly-cooked food using authentic, locally-grown natural and organic ingredients because they will contain more preservatives and the vitamins in the food will have potentially degraded over time. But even these foods will probably have MSG in them.

 

But there's a big difference here. A McDonald's meal is not especially healthy, however, if consumed in moderation it can be a part of a healthy and varied diet. But in of itself, the meal is not "dangerous" and to suggest as such is quite frankly outrageous.

 

I would like to postulate that the people who are saying that MSG is dangerous are eating it everyday but they don't know it. How can a compound consisting of a sodium ion and an amino acid ion be toxic? These thing are in your body already.

 

Like I said before, these people are likely "flat-earthers", or people who were deprived of oxygen during their birth.

 

Billions of people eat MSG every day around the world. And many of them seem to be living very long lives despite this.

 

 

 

Edited by BenDeCosta
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11 hours ago, BenDeCosta said:

 

Who mentioned "industrial food"? We were talking about a flavour-enhancer that is used in almost every home kitchen and restaurant across Asia, and is found in almost every processed food around the world. People are not going into comas from eating it.

 

Of course, pre-processed foods will be less healthy than freshly-cooked food using authentic, locally-grown natural and organic ingredients because they will contain more preservatives and the vitamins in the food will have potentially degraded over time. But even these foods will probably have MSG in them.

 

But there's a big difference here. A McDonald's meal is not especially healthy, however, if consumed in moderation it can be a part of a healthy and varied diet. But in of itself, the meal is not "dangerous" and to suggest as such is quite frankly outrageous.

 

I would like to postulate that the people who are saying that MSG is dangerous are eating it everyday but they don't know it. How can a compound consisting of a sodium ion and an amino acid ion be toxic? These thing are in your body already.

 

Like I said before, these people are likely "flat-earthers", or people who were deprived of oxygen during their birth.

 

Billions of people eat MSG every day around the world. And many of them seem to be living very long lives despite this.

 

 

 

 

Sir.... You are correct no one is dropping dead on the spot from eating MSG.....The negative effects build slowly over many years........There must be millions of posts on the internet of people saying MSG affects them badly........Are they all trolls?......Not hardly..........

 

MSG is just the poster child for the bad things they put in food that ruin peoples health.......There are lots more........And fast food has loads of bad things in it......

Google can show that in 5 minutes....

 

Anther one is GMO Soy......That is terrible for health and is put in EVERYTHING....It a food conspiracy I tell you....

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1 hour ago, redwood1 said:

Anther one is GMO Soy......That is terrible for health and is put in EVERYTHING....It a food conspiracy I tell you....

 

And palm oil, which seems to find it's way into many foods.

 

A Google search can show anything you want it to. Someone who has studied science will appraise the source of information before believing it. Some people believe everything they read.

 

Would you believe this: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/alien-donald-trump-b222208.html

 

There are many people who have just decided that they like the idea of MSG being dangerous and mounds of scientific evidence won't change their minds, yet these people are unwittingly eating it every day but because they don't know about it, it doesn't cause them any harm.

Edited by BenDeCosta
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On 4/15/2021 at 9:53 AM, LosLobo said:

All MSG is the same, Ajinomoto in Thailand makes MSG from the natural fermentation  of natural sugar cane and natural cassava.

 

I generally serve all my food with lashings of MSG for that unique umami flavour.

 

Here is an interesting article about MSG!

 

If MSG is so bad for you, why doesn't everyone in Asia have a headache? | Food | The Guardian

Interesting article, thanks.

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Here are some reasonably reliable sources of information that confirm that MSG is safe and that the "reactions" some people claim to experience after eating it have not been able to be reproduced in a clinical setting:

 

https://www.fda.gov/food/food-additives-petitions/questions-and-answers-monosodium-glutamate-msg

https://www.foodstandards.gov.au/consumer/additives/msg/Pages/default.aspx

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-msg-got-a-bad-rap-flawed-science-and-xenophobia/

 

"When it comes to MSG, the false connections are fairly innocuous for most people but may still cause unnecessary discomfort for some, either because they are experiencing the nocebo effect or depriving themselves of deliciousness. We all make choices about how we eat; for some people, those decisions are based on supporting local economies, avoiding meat for the humane treatment of animals, or simply wanting to know what goes into their bodies. There’s no right or wrong, but it’s worth understanding the origins of those choices. In the case of MSG, they appear to have been less about science and more about the culture and politics of the day."

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On 4/13/2021 at 5:22 PM, EricTh said:

 

Those are just names, the industry can call them with whatever name just to fool people like you.

 

So natural leather and artificial leather both have the same name 'leather', does it mean they are the same? LOL

 

If the same chemical components are also in tomato, mushroom and what not like you claim, why do you need to buy another product called MSG from Ajinomoto which you couldn't answer earlier. 

 

Look I don't want to argue with people like you anymore. If you want to believe in big pharmaceutical companies or rich organizations like Ajinomoto who can influence media, so be it.

 

But don't tell us how we and lots of other people felt were all 'illusions' after taking that MSG.

 

Thirst is a sign that it is a neurotoxin and need to be flushed out by our body which we don't get by eating tomato etc. There are thousands of research (not influenced by Ajinomoto) that shows it is a neurotoxin, you do know how to google , don't you? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow! Talk about a word play and a misunderstanding of basic chemistry?!

 

MSG is the chemical name!

 

And it isn't about research from big companies like Ajinomoto.

 

MSG was first extracted from seaweed by Japanese university researchers. Like BenDeCosta has been trying to tell you it does exist naturally in all kinds of food types as a glutamic acid, that is not a claim it is a fact!

 

MSG is just the sodium form (ie. the crystallized salt form) of that glutamic acid.

 

It's like extracting salt from seawater. Salt exists in seawater as a soluble. It is pretty much useless for culinary purposes in that form. So we extract it and allow it to crystallize.

 

Furthermore, your labeling of MSG as a 'bad' neurotoxin is somewhat disingenuous. Glutamic acid is a natural neurotransmitter. Its job is to send signals to other cells. And even though it is classed as a neurotoxin it is essential to normal bodily function. It is only when taken in excessive doses does it become dangerous.

 

But that is where most people misunderstand research science?! Large doses of anything can be lethal. Did you know that drinking water in excessive amounts can lead to death?! Large doses of sunlight causes cancer although sunlight is essential to life as we know it!

 

All this is basic high school/college level science.

 

You don't need tons of 'google research' to know that MSG:

 

1. is a chemical compound;

2. it is the sodium form of the naturally occurring glutamic acid;

3. glutamic acid is a natural neurotransmitter and though classed as a 'neurotoxin' it is actually essential for the body;

4. excessive amounts can be dangerous;

5. but excessive amounts of anything, even water and sunlight, can be dangerous.

6. some people can be allergic or have a lower level of tolerance to it, just like some people can be allergic even to water and sunlight.

 

I think someone needs to go back to school and this time sit at the front of the class and pay attention?!

 

 

Edited by kamma
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If you drink enough water, you will get hyponatraemia and die. Therefore by some people's logic, water is "dangerous".

If you eat enough bananas, you get hyperkalaemia which interferes with your hearts ability to beat and you will die. Therefore, by some people's logic, bananas are "dangerous".

If you eat enough salt, you'll get hypernatraemia and die, therefore, by some people's logic, salt is "dangerous".

 

Likewise, if you eat too much MSG, and we are talking vast, vast amounts, it will negatively affect you.

 

However, a teaspoon of MSG in your gaeng kiao waan will not hurt you, and it will not put you into a coma or other such rubbish. Almost every single person on the planet will be consuming MSG in some amount every single day. This scaremongering by people who don't have a basic understanding of science is why this myth is perpetuated.   

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21 minutes ago, BenDeCosta said:

If you drink enough water, you will get hyponatraemia and die. Therefore by some people's logic, water is "dangerous".

If you eat enough bananas, you get hyperkalaemia which interferes with your hearts ability to beat and you will die. Therefore, by some people's logic, bananas are "dangerous".

If you eat enough salt, you'll get hypernatraemia and die, therefore, by some people's logic, salt is "dangerous".

 

Likewise, if you eat too much MSG, and we are talking vast, vast amounts, it will negatively affect you.

 

However, a teaspoon of MSG in your gaeng kiao waan will not hurt you, and it will not put you into a coma or other such rubbish. Almost every single person on the planet will be consuming MSG in some amount every single day. This scaremongering by people who don't have a basic understanding of science is why this myth is perpetuated.   

 

Absolutely true.

 

Sadly most people's idea of 'research' is to just read the headlines.

 

'..oh MSG is a neurotoxin and neurotoxins are bad...therefore MSG is bad...'?!

 

In fact even Wikipedia's topic on Neurotoxins has at the end of its very first paragraph...

 

'...Some substances such as nitric oxide and glutamate are in fact essential for proper function of the body and only exert neurotoxic effects at excessive concentrations.'

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurotoxin#Mechanisms_of_activity

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On 4/12/2021 at 9:15 PM, BenDeCosta said:

 

 

used to be known as "Chinese Restaurant Syndrome", it's not an allergy but the body's reaction to a large dose. 

 

 

Here is an interesting story about “Chinese Restaurant Syndrome” extracted from:

 

  https://peterattiamd.com/should-we-still-be-worried-about-msg/

 

This is an excellent article by Dr. Peter Attia MD and confirms everything you have been saying about MSG.

 

“It’s a strange story about how public media picked up and ran with questionable information. The NPR podcast This American Life dedicated part of an episode to the account. In 1968, a Letter to the Editor warning readers about “Chinese Restaurant Syndrome” (CRS) appeared in the New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM). You may know about CRS. Maybe you’ve experienced it yourself ...

 

The letter was signed by a physician and Chinese immigrant named Dr. Robert Ho Man Kwok, who claimed to feel numbness and palpitations after eating in Chinese restaurants in the US, speculated that MSG was the cause, and called for further research. ….

 

Nonetheless, one of the replies to the original letter speculated that it was a joke, and regardless, it took on a life of its own thereafter.

 

The most practical way to determine the reaction to Kwok’s letter decades later was to dig through old print journals, and several researchers who searched found numerous reply letters in subsequent issues. They found that some letters were clearly tongue-in-cheek, and most seemed to be part of a lighthearted NEJM tradition in which letters to the editor jokingly described quotidian symptoms using excessively technical medical terminology. Though most of the response letters in NEJM were no doubt meant to be humorous, the joke was completely lost on the media, which dutifully reported on this new “health concern.” Six weeks after its publication, the New York Times ran an article on this so-called “Chinese restaurant syndrome,” including interviews with defensive Chinese restaurant owners. Several major newspapers quoted from one of the satirical response letters to the NEJM as if it were a scientific document. The article did not mention that MSG is also widely used in many foods associated with the west rather than China, such as flavored potato chips, parmesan cheese, frozen dinners, and fast food. The inconsistency—symptoms occur after eating “Chinese” restaurant food with added MSG, but not in others—further suggests the entire argument is devoid of merit.”

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27 minutes ago, ellobo said:

 

Here is an interesting story about “Chinese Restaurant Syndrome” extracted from:

 

  https://peterattiamd.com/should-we-still-be-worried-about-msg/

 

This is an excellent article by Dr. Peter Attia MD and confirms everything you have been saying about MSG.

 

“It’s a strange story about how public media picked up and ran with questionable information. The NPR podcast This American Life dedicated part of an episode to the account. In 1968, a Letter to the Editor warning readers about “Chinese Restaurant Syndrome” (CRS) appeared in the New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM). You may know about CRS. Maybe you’ve experienced it yourself ...

 

The letter was signed by a physician and Chinese immigrant named Dr. Robert Ho Man Kwok, who claimed to feel numbness and palpitations after eating in Chinese restaurants in the US, speculated that MSG was the cause, and called for further research. ….

 

Nonetheless, one of the replies to the original letter speculated that it was a joke, and regardless, it took on a life of its own thereafter.

 

The most practical way to determine the reaction to Kwok’s letter decades later was to dig through old print journals, and several researchers who searched found numerous reply letters in subsequent issues. They found that some letters were clearly tongue-in-cheek, and most seemed to be part of a lighthearted NEJM tradition in which letters to the editor jokingly described quotidian symptoms using excessively technical medical terminology. Though most of the response letters in NEJM were no doubt meant to be humorous, the joke was completely lost on the media, which dutifully reported on this new “health concern.” Six weeks after its publication, the New York Times ran an article on this so-called “Chinese restaurant syndrome,” including interviews with defensive Chinese restaurant owners. Several major newspapers quoted from one of the satirical response letters to the NEJM as if it were a scientific document. The article did not mention that MSG is also widely used in many foods associated with the west rather than China, such as flavored potato chips, parmesan cheese, frozen dinners, and fast food. The inconsistency—symptoms occur after eating “Chinese” restaurant food with added MSG, but not in others—further suggests the entire argument is devoid of merit.”

Sir if your so sure MSG is great stuff why dont you start putting in on all your food instead of salt.......In a few weeks you might just get MSG sickness ......

 

MSG is nasty stuff.....I have been MSG sick loads of times...

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I thought the subject of MSG had been done to death a few years ago on a thread here.

 

I did find some research papers on it and posted them at the time and to précis them: – MSG in and of itself is not dangerous, although there are people who have allergic-type reactions to MSG, especially if it is overused.

 

Unfortunately I am one of those people, however it is worthwhile remembering that there are people in this world who are allergic to all sorts of things, like wheat, milk, peanuts and so on.

 

So no big deal unless you are one of those people who does have a reaction to it.

 

Simple really.
 

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2 hours ago, redwood1 said:

Sir if your so sure MSG is great stuff why dont you start putting in on all your food instead of salt.......In a few weeks you might just get MSG sickness ......

 

I don't see where anyone is saying MSG is great stuff.

 

2 hours ago, redwood1 said:

MSG is nasty stuff.....I have been MSG sick loads of times...

 

I understand that the cure for this is a tin-foil hat.  Might improve your reading ability also.    😀

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5 hours ago, redwood1 said:

Sir if your so sure MSG is great stuff why dont you start putting in on all your food instead of salt.......In a few weeks you might just get MSG sickness ......

 

MSG is nasty stuff.....I have been MSG sick loads of times...

 

Absolute rubbish. Maybe find out what MSG actually is, and go and read some of the scientific studies? Is that so difficult?

 

I use MSG every day, as do most Thais (and other Asian people), and have never had an issue with it. Most Thais DO eat MSG in every meal, as do billions around the world.

 

Stop scaremongering please. You're eating it every day too. You just don't know it.

 

What is "MSG sick"? Is that when someone who knows doesn't even have a basic grasp of science blames how they feel on their ingestion of a sodium salt of an amino acid which already exists in their body? Preposterous.

 

Stop perpetuating the myth that a harmless food additive is dangerous.

 

"Oh I met someone who said that he'd go into a coma if he ate MSG" - well this just highlights how poorly educated you are and little else. I could go around telling people that I can't drink water because it would put me into a coma, I'm sure that some idiot would believe it and post it on here without doing any research.

 

MSG is not "nasty stuff", it's a naturally occurring compound that is found in almost everything you eat. Stop being ignorant, do some research and try educating yourself before talking such rot.

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17 minutes ago, BenDeCosta said:

 

Absolute rubbish. Maybe find out what MSG actually is, and go and read some of the scientific studies? Is that so difficult?

 

I use MSG every day, as do most Thais (and other Asian people), and have never had an issue with it. Most Thais DO eat MSG in every meal, as do billions around the world.

 

Stop scaremongering please. You're eating it every day too. You just don't know it.

 

What is "MSG sick"? Is that when someone who knows doesn't even have a basic grasp of science blames how they feel on their ingestion of a sodium salt of an amino acid which already exists in their body? Preposterous.

 

Stop perpetuating the myth that a harmless food additive is dangerous.

 

"Oh I met someone who said that he'd go into a coma if he ate MSG" - well this just highlights how poorly educated you are and little else. I could go around telling people that I can't drink water because it would put me into a coma, I'm sure that some idiot would believe it and post it on here without doing any research.

 

MSG is not "nasty stuff", it's a naturally occurring compound that is found in almost everything you eat. Stop being ignorant, do some research and try educating yourself before talking such rot.

 

Here’s how food companies sneak MSG into foods

 

They keep changing the name of MSG

 

  • Glutamic Acid (E 620)2
  • Glutamate (E 620)
  • Monosodium Glutamate (E 621)
  • Monopotassium Glutamate (E 622)
  • Calcium Glutamate (E 623)
  • Monoammonium Glutamate (E 624)
  • Magnesium Glutamate (E 625)
  • Natrium Glutamate
  • Yeast Extract
  • Anything hydrolyzed
  • Any hydrolyzed protein
  • Calcium Caseinate
  • Sodium Caseinate
  • Yeast Food
  • Yeast Nutrient
  • Autolyzed Yeast
  • Gelatin
  • Textured Protein
  • Soy Protein Isolate
  • Whey Protein Isolate
  • Anything :protein
  • Vetsin
  • Ajinomoto

 

If food companies were proud of using MSG they would just call it MSG on the label...But they are not proud to use MSG so they try and be sneaky because they know its bad......

 

It can cause adverse reactions in people, including chest pain, flushing, and sweating. It's also reportedly caused numbness or burning near the mouth and facial pressure or swelling.

 

 

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26 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

 

Here’s how food companies sneak MSG into foods

 

They keep changing the name of MSG

 

  • Glutamic Acid (E 620)2
  • Glutamate (E 620)
  • Monosodium Glutamate (E 621)
  • Monopotassium Glutamate (E 622)
  • Calcium Glutamate (E 623)
  • Monoammonium Glutamate (E 624)
  • Magnesium Glutamate (E 625)
  • Natrium Glutamate
  • Yeast Extract
  • Anything hydrolyzed
  • Any hydrolyzed protein
  • Calcium Caseinate
  • Sodium Caseinate
  • Yeast Food
  • Yeast Nutrient
  • Autolyzed Yeast
  • Gelatin
  • Textured Protein
  • Soy Protein Isolate
  • Whey Protein Isolate
  • Anything :protein
  • Vetsin
  • Ajinomoto

 

If food companies were proud of using MSG they would just call it MSG on the label...But they are not proud to use MSG so they try and be sneaky because they know its bad......

 

It can cause adverse reactions in people, including chest pain, flushing, and sweating. It's also reportedly caused numbness or burning near the mouth and facial pressure or swelling. 

 

 

 

The only thing on your list that is MSG, or monosodium glutamate, is MSG (E621). Ajinomoto is a brand name of MSG, but they produce other things so it could be anything. Monocalcium glutamate would be MCG. This is just more stupidity. Some of those things contain MSG, but then so would tomatoes, mushrooms, yeast, potatoes, any kind of meat, sauces, seasonings, the list is endless. Glutamate is ambiguous and could be any salt of glutamate. 

 

If it had ever been proven to be dangerous, it would not be allowed in food, but it hasn't so you'll find MSG in food in every country in the world.

 

Therefore, by your flawed logic, any food that was listed as containing tomatoes would be trying to sneak MSG into your diet. Go away, do some reading and stop perpetuating rubbish.

 

Nobody is changing the name of MSG, and no-one is trying to sneak it into your food. Companies use it to enhance the flavour of their products with something that doesn't cause any harm unless you're eating hundreds of grams a day.

 

 

 

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