Strong disincentive for many or most expats to get tested for Covid-19

[nickmondo]

3 minutes ago, nickmondo said:

i think you will find that the 1 million is only if you pop your clogs.

i have this policy.

i will re read the policy docs to confirm about the 1 million

 

** Illness with coma or serious disease caused by coronavirus (COVID-19) infection or brain death and nervous system failure or end-stage illness which is a serious illness that doctors conclude. There is no cure for the cure and / or cause death mainly due to coronavirus infection. Maximum coverage of 500,000 - 1,000,000 baht (depending on the coverage plan)

[nickmondo]

On 4/18/2021 at 9:18 PM, Sheryl said:

You can get 100K cover for asymptomatic/mild COVID care/1 million baht cover for severe COVID  for less than 1,000 baht premium a year

 

https://www.roojai.com/en/covid/

 

That's just one policy, there are many others as well

 

I have excellent general health insurance which covers COVID but off course would not cover  being isolated in a hotel with asymptomatic or mild infections so thinking of getting this.

 

Need to get clarification that the medical expense cover would include field hospital/hotel facility for care of people with COVID as the policy wording pre-dates those being established but I think it would.

** Illness with coma or serious disease caused by coronavirus (COVID-19) infection or brain death and nervous system failure or end-stage illness which is a serious illness that doctors conclude. There is no cure for the cure and / or cause death mainly due to coronavirus infection. Maximum coverage of 500,000 - 1,000,000 baht (depending on the coverage plan)

[Sheryl]

10 hours ago, pixelaoffy said:

Not worth paper it's written in then. This company liable for millions of baht. And could go out of business

 

I very much doubt that such a large and diversified major insurance company will go out of business.

 

Dhipaya is a huge business and this is just a small sideline for them, their products also include lkife insurance, car insurance etc.

 

They may however stop issuing these specific policies if they determine that they are likely to take a loss on them.

[Sheryl]

14 minutes ago, nickmondo said:

** Illness with coma or serious disease caused by coronavirus (COVID-19) infection or brain death and nervous system failure or end-stage illness which is a serious illness that doctors conclude. There is no cure for the cure and / or cause death mainly due to coronavirus infection. Maximum coverage of 500,000 - 1,000,000 baht (depending on the coverage plan)

 

As I explained before, there are 2 tiers of cover.

 

*Any illnesses such as coma, brain and nervous system damage or disorders, terminal illness, and or death, as a direct result of the Coronavirus, determined by a physician.
Maximum insurance coverage 500,000 - 1,000,000 THB (depending on the plan)

 

AND

 

**Medical corona treatment from infections (Coronavirus (COVID-19)) both In-Patient-Department (IPD) and Out-Patient-Department (OPD) cases
Maximum insurance coverage for medical expenses 50,000 - 100,000 THB/year (depending on the plan)"

 

I have confirmed that this includes asympotomatic cases.

 

 

 

 

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, charliebadenhop said:

From what I have been told more than once-

 

If you go to give blood, you will get a free Covid test prior to giving your blood.

 

I don't think this is true. No reason for it, the disease is not blood borne.

 

You will get tested for anemia, though.

[Sheryl]

28 minutes ago, nickmondo said:

i think you will find that the 1 million is only if you pop your clogs.

i have this policy.

i will re read the policy docs to confirm about the 1 million

 

 

It will cover medical care if you develop severe complications e.g. are on a vent. Whether you die or not. You would not be likley to run up a bill that high otherwise anyhow.

 

But you could run up more than that in a worse case scenario.

[Pawpal]

Thanks for the information, Sheryl.
One more question: April International Insurance recently sent out emails saying it covers Covid. If so, why the need for a policy with Roojai?

 

[Saltire]

On 4/19/2021 at 4:59 AM, Crossy said:

I just got the 850 Baht policy, I still intend avoiding testing at all costs.

 

If I actually get sick my main health policy will cough, but like @BananaBandit it's the enforced hosptalisation for an asymptomatic +ve test that would be the killer.

 

Without access to any vaccine there's not a lot else to do ???? 

I got the same 850 B policy in December 2020 mainly as my UK general policy pretty much told me I would not be cvered for covid related issues. I have the big 3 pre-existing conditions so, covid apart, am pretty sure with the current situation they will drop me on pretty much any claim.

 

Don't you just hate insurance companies?

 

 

[NoshowJones]

On 4/18/2021 at 5:57 PM, scubascuba3 said:

Have they confirmed how much falang will be fleeced for these field hospitals?

Another reason for just keeping enough money for your living expenses here, and the rest in your own country. What you haven't got they can't take.

[billd766]

21 hours ago, Disparate Dan said:

Apparently the virus ruins your sense of smell. As long as you can still smell your own f@rts, you're safe.......... cheapest test available.

Not to mention the sense of taste also. If you can taste Chilli sauce, Tabasco etc you are fairly safe.

 

If you can still smell pla ra from 20 metres and taste the above you should be pretty much safe. ????

[NoshowJones]

22 hours ago, tgw said:

 

don't worry, for asymptomatic farang moneybags, they will convert hotels into field hospitals in no time and charge 100k

and if you don't have that 100k?? Put you in jail? Take your passport? Who has the authority to take your passport against your will? Is it not the property of your country's government? I am not saying one way or the other, just asking.

[NoshowJones]

20 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

This is not correct.

 

These policies have 2 tiers for medical costs: one for serious effects of COVID and one for "ordinary" medical care - in or outpatient.  "Ordinary" medical care for COVID in Thailand includes being in an isolation facility, even if asymptomatic as that is the standard of care here, and all Thai insurers know this.

 

There have been a number of foreigners admitted to hospitals with asymptomatic COVID whose Thai-issued COVID policies have paid in full.

 

As previously mentioned, foreign issued general medical policies could potentially have an issue over the medivcal necessity for hospitalization.

I myself have this 850Bt insurance, but the fact is, no insurance company will pay out any claims if they can avoid it. That's why they have all that legal jargon on their policies. Why do you think the small print is small?

[Caldera]

The OP is spot on, but I think in reality it's even far worse, because there's a strong disincentive for most regular (I.e. non-privileged working class) Thais to get tested as well. Loss of income, the stigma and inconvenience caused for others, ...

 

Not a good situation at all. 

[Pawpal]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

It will cover medical care if you develop severe complications e.g. are on a vent. Whether you die or not. You would not be likley to run up a bill that high otherwise anyhow.

 

But you could run up more than that in a worse case scenario.

Thanks for the information, Sheryl.
One more question: April International Insurance recently sent out emails saying it covers Covid. If so, why the need for a policy with Roojai?

[Fairynuff]

4 hours ago, KKr said:

Logically speaking, if the Government deems it necessary to confine an individual, who is legally residing in the country, for having an ailment, would it not be appropriate that the same Government bears the cost of protecting the local population ?

The answer is in the name of the country.

[BKKBike09]

Another potential issue with testing positive and being hospitalised is surely that an insurer could subsequently try to exclude future treatments for a whole range of conditions - lung, gastric, sensory issues etc - on grounds that they were caused by a 'pre-existing condition', ie past Covid infection. I wouldn't want "hospitalised 10 days with Covid" on my medical notes when I had not required hospitalisation.

 

I bet "have you ever tested positive for Covid" will become a standard question asked on insurance applications. That alone could be a reason for not wanting a test.  

[Crossy]

3 hours ago, Pawpal said:

Thanks for the information, Sheryl.
One more question: April International Insurance recently sent out emails saying it covers Covid. If so, why the need for a policy with Roojai?

 

Do verify that they cover for ASYMPTOMATIC hospitalisation after a +ve test. I asked April that question and they said that I am NOT covered unless showing symptoms and requiring treatment, hence my getting the Roojai policy.

[Susco]

3 hours ago, billd766 said:

If you can still smell pla ra from 20 metres and taste the above you should be pretty much safe. 

 

Even a dead man can smell pla ra from 20 meters

Edited April 20, 2021 by Susco

[sandyf]

On 4/18/2021 at 5:02 AM, scubascuba3 said:

Those with insurance will go get tested etc those without will avoid due to mandatory fleecing of farang that will follow.

Normally my consultation with the cardiologist is 100 baht, today I saw the cardiologist and the dermatologist, still 100 baht.

You are buying your fleece from the wrong shop.

[sandyf]

On 4/19/2021 at 12:14 PM, billd766 said:

I quite like the idea of field hospitals as they can be quickly built or adapted, the bit that concerns me the most is where will the staff and equipment come from to operate them?

 

Ranging from 24/7 doctors, nurses and orderlies right down to the cleaners, kitchen staff and the people who will do the laundry etc.

 

It would not be a good plan to take them from existing hospitals as that would leave them short handed as well.

I was at the hospital this morning Bill, Hematology, Dermatology and Cardiology, not a lot different to any other time during the pandemic. Entry was a bit more controlled as it has been each time the restrictions have tightened. The dermatologist however was wearing 3 face masks, that's a first. Everything was relatively quiet so all credit to the government using field hospitals to keep the covid patients away from hospitals.

Bang Saen is a government hospital and this was the waiting room for Internal medicine about 9.30 this morning. Maybe for some "overwhelmed" has taken on a new meaning.

[tethered goat]

Maybe it is just i am too naive but i cant help feeling that this is not a normal health problem it is a pandemic,and different rules should apply. It is easy to understand that foreigners pay for their own health problems in the foreign country they are residing, but this is not their own health problem it is everybodies and should be treated as such.

 

The second wave in Thailand was caused by for the most part  by legal and illegal migrant workers from neighboring countries.Were they made to pay for their treatment ? Of course not. So why are legal residents with foreign passports being forced to pay for treatment for a virus that they have contracted, for the most part ,through no fault of their own.The third wave being blamed on failed leadership and dithering .

 

I would love to hear from anyone who knows how foreign residents are being treated in other countries.Many European countries have very good social security systems if you are working but what about if you are not in the social security system etc.I am aware that some of you may have water tight insurance policies but that is not always possible.I am in my 70s healthy no existing conditions ,but there are no policies  out there that make any sense financially.As for the covid i took out the pathetic 850 baht policy that is mentioned in this thread thinking its better than nothing but having now time to think through the possible scenarios its barely better than nothing.As i said before maybe i'm just too naive to think there is any logic in what i just said

 

 

 

 

[Crossy]

A whole bunch of inflamatory and off topic posts have gone walkabout!

 

Let's try to keep it civil shall we.

[RubbaJohnny]

4 hours ago, BKKBike09 said:

Another potential issue with testing positive and being hospitalised is surely that an insurer could subsequently try to exclude future treatments for a whole range of conditions - lung, gastric, sensory issues etc - on grounds that they were caused by a 'pre-existing condition', ie past Covid infection. I wouldn't want "hospitalised 10 days with Covid" on my medical notes when I had not required hospitalisation.

 

I bet "have you ever tested positive for Covid" will become a standard question asked on insurance applications. That alone could be a reason for not wanting a test.  

 

An excellent point that is yet another reason sane normally responsible both Thai and foreign may avoid. I am not sure what the perfect solution is, but pretty sure it won't involve a "hub" being placed with hundreds of others and staff who travel in and out seems less desireable than staying at home.

 

[loong]

This Roojai policy seems very cheap.

As has already been mentioned, the 1 million Baht cover is very limited.

Quote

conditions:

1. Coma
2. Brain death or neurological failure
3. Terminal illness

 

The 100,000 Baht cover.

Quote

If the insured is admitted to a hospital or clinic either as an inpatient or outpatient suffering from Coronavirus Infection during the insurance period, the company will pay the actual medical expenses but not more than the sum insured as specified in the insurance policy table to the insured.

Note the word actual. This suggests to me that room cost will not be covered and that could well be the major cost for mild sufferers who are forced to stay in a hospital/hospitel.

[connda]

On 4/18/2021 at 2:10 PM, Crossy said:

My health insurer have told me that they will NOT cover anything for an asymptomatic +ve test.

Well, if you test positive and have insurance and you're not sick, then act like you are.  Simple. 
Anyway, if they stick you in one of the new Covid concentration camps, you'll probably get sick anyway due to being exposed to high viral loads from people who really are sick.  Hopefully the hospitals become overloaded due to packing them with the asymptomatic and they finally stop being stupid and allow the asymptomatic to home quarantine unless they actually need hospitalization.  They are going to destroy Thailand's hospital's ability to function and it's will be the fault of the government and their short-sighted policies.

[connda]

7 hours ago, sandyf said:

Normally my consultation with the cardiologist is 100 baht, today I saw the cardiologist and the dermatologist, still 100 baht.

You are buying your fleece from the wrong shop.

Amazing how many expats will only go to a private hospital as they think that they are superior to government hospitals.  Ok, the fancy rooms are nicer by your paying through the nose for Hi-so treatment.  A private room in the government hospital is affordable.  I don't think they can force you into a private hospital.  I'd put my passport where it couldn't be found and flat out tell them I'm not paying.  Government hospital only. 
"We need you give us passport."
No ????
"We no can treat you then."
Good.  Send me to a government hospital.

Edited April 20, 2021 by connda

[connda]

13 hours ago, Na Fan said:

Forcibly instituionalized? With no symptoms?

 

<deleted>.

 

Yeah, all Thailand needs to do is bump the "cycle count" on the PCR test to produce more false positive.  Cha-Ching as the hospitals have a field day with the care and feeding of asymptomatic expats at a premium price.
This is what concerns me in reality - there is no global, WHO/CDC recommended, Gold-Standard, standardized cycle count for PCR tests.  This is a research tool being used as a diagnostic.  Without standards, as it's creator Kary stated, "If they can find this virus in you at all – and with PCR, if you do it well, you can find almost anything in anybody.”, "PCR is just a process that allows you to make a whole lot of something out of something. It doesn’t tell you that you are sick, or that the thing that you ended up with was going to hurt you or anything like that."
PCR amplifies immeasurable amounts of viral matter so that it can be measured.  The more cycles the more amplification.
The WHO/CDC and other health organizations should have collaborated on this and issued a specific "standard" of cycle counts to use for diagnostic purposes as opposed to amplifying viral material for research.  Up the cycle count to a high enough threshold and as Mullis said,  "... you can find almost anything in anybody.”
The WHO recognized this and issued a statement suggesting that cycle count be lowered, but it still did not issue guideline for establishing global PCR cycle count standards.  It is needed.
Imho, standardizing PCR cycle counts is imperative to keep from overflowing hospitals with false-positive (asymptomatic) patients due to excess cycle count (amplification). 

[connda]

On 4/18/2021 at 4:25 PM, overherebc said:

Having just been shown a video of one of the multi bed facilities that are being used I will be going no further than my front gate until I can get get a vac' shot. Don't care which one.

The problem being even with the vaccination is that you can still pop positive on a PCR test and still be forcefully institutionalized.  The vaccines are an a panacea and I haven't read any manufacturer claim that their vaccines prevent Covid.  If a manufacture is claiming that their vaccines prevent humans from contracting SARS-Cov-2, fire me a link.  I'd be interested in reading their statements.  From my reading they claim that the vaccines can ameliorate the symptoms should you contract SARS-Cov-2, i.e., you probably won't end seriously ill or up on a vent or dying.
Believing you are bullet-proof because you have had a vaccine is probably not a good bet.

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by connda

[hugocnx]

On 4/18/2021 at 4:39 AM, tgw said:

I'm not sure what happens to work permit holders if they test positive.

My guess is that they would send me to a private hospital with a huge bill to pay.

 

My course of action would be to stay at home and avoid any tests under all circumstances, even if I suspect being infected.

 

I am actually still registered under Thai healthcare scheme at a hospital, I wonder if they would send me there, would I have a choice in the matter?

 

In any case, that would be an unnecessary risk, best thing is to just wait it out at home with the occasional trip for food.

Yes, my idea too. Had a cold/flue whatever you want to name it. Going for a PCR test?

Who's so scared to do that? Most probably you end up in the stream that sucks you down into the Covid scene with a lot of trouble for you. Not me, I know my body and besides that Covid is now titled the flue and look at the recent morbidity data. No excess mortality, not more than other years if only minor differences that occur from year to year. Check it out, inform yourself.

[soi3eddie]

On 4/19/2021 at 12:30 AM, ExpatOilWorker said:

Not true in all cases. I know of one expat, with mild symptoms,  he is currently in home quarantine, with his wife, after a positive test.

 

A Thai in my BKK condo was tested positive on 14th April. No hospital beds so home quarantined until beds available. Notification on 19th April that Ambulance had taken them away to hospital. F that! If I was feeling symptons I would stay home and isolate until after 14 days at minimum unless seriously unwell. Forget going to get tested as that would be a fast track to full butt hurt and maximum expense as a farang. Insurance or not.