Australian expat self funded retirees - non-resident tax laws & shares etc. How to structure investments?

[gearbox]

2 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

It's called, a bank.  ????

 

HSBC Singapore is popular with expats in Thailand.  

 

If the OP wants / needs to, he can buy some shares. 

 

If he gets the right advice, and moves his money the right way, he may even be able to receive an aged pension back in Australia.  

 

That sounds quite interesting, I'll have a look myself. In regards to the aged pension it would probably involve skipping the 50K overseas assets question in the tax return.

[LosLobo]

46 minutes ago, aussienam said:

I am in my early 50's at the moment and did not meet criteria for disability pension as exceeded the asset's test threshold.  

I think old age pension threshold is $300,000 in assets outside a primary residence.  I am assuming by that time (67 years old) I will still be over that (assets are calculated both in Australia and abroad). And to qualify for an old age pension we need to be in Australia for two full years before applying.  

Assets test threshold for Age Pension and Disability Pension is $482,500(lower threshold) and $800,250(higher threshold).

 

The pension is means tested by both assets and income and the one paying the least amount of pension is adopted.

 

Income thresholds are different to assets thresholds and are calculated by deeming financial assets.

[aussienam]

9 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

Assets test threshold for Age Pension and Disability Pension is $482,500(lower threshold) and $800,250(higher threshold).

 

The pension is means tested by both assets and income and the one paying the least amount of pension is adopted.

 

Income thresholds are different to assets thresholds and are calculated by deeming financial assets.

Thanks. I went to Centrelink Australia where I had an appointment and the officer determined I was not eligible as I exceeded the assets threshold. I have no primary residence so all assets are investment and income producing. 

I am still confused.  

[LosLobo]

11 minutes ago, aussienam said:

Thanks. I went to Centrelink Australia where I had an appointment and the officer determined I was not eligible as I exceeded the assets threshold. I have no primary residence so all assets are investment and income producing. 

I am still confused.  

If you calculate it yourself you will be not confused:

 

Centrelink Age Pension Calculator 20.7 (yourpension.com.au)

Edited May 1, 2021 by LosLobo

[Leaver]

24 minutes ago, aussienam said:

Thanks for the advice. This is truly extremely daunting now.  If I were to sell up all my shares and move my AUD to Singapore, then my biggest fear is then who can I trust there to reinvest my funds?  

I have yet to have found a decent financial adviser in Oz where I am may least familiar with a lifetime in that place and know the legal avenues for restitution (I have had two non-disclosure settlements paid to me from two 'financial advisers' who I threatened legal action against).  

Singapore - I wouldn't know where to start.  I really need my hand to be held all along with this as I am clueless. 

 

I am not comfortable with self managing a large portfolio of shares either.  I have managed funds holding the bulk as I have a nervous disposition and need fund managers making the decisions.  

 

I am in my early 50's at the moment and did not meet criteria for disability pension as exceeded the asset's test threshold.  

I think old age pension threshold is $300,000 in assets outside a primary residence.  I am assuming by that time (67 years old) I will still be over that (assets are calculated both in Australia and abroad). And to qualify for an old age pension we need to be in Australia for two full years before applying.  

 

I truly need advice and help as I can't do this alone.  Just too complex.  It's really ramped up my PTSD and depression.  

 

A lot of expats move their life saving to Thailand.  For me, Thailand is not stable enough, but Singapore is safe.  I would never recommend to anyone to move their life savings to Thailand.

 

HSBC is a global bank with a presence in Singapore.  It's a well established bank, it's not like a Thai bank.  You would simple transfer your money from a Singapore bank account into a Thai bank account, rather than from an Australian bank account.  

 

Singapore is a financial hub in Asia.  Your cash is safe there, and is backed up by proper rule of law, unlike Thailand..  Singapore also offers favourable taxation rates.

 

I'm simply saying, whilst you have something in Australia to tax, the tax department will tax it.  Move it offshore, the Australian tax department has nothing to tax from you.  Of course, I only suggest this if you really have no intention of ever permanently residing back in Australia.  

 

I note the Australian tax department taxation rates for non-residents are very high.  I am sure they are not aimed at your circumstances, but unfortunately, you are caught up in the net.  

 

I have a couple of Australian friends who returned home to serve their time to qualify for their aged pension.  They told me there is no way around that.  Maybe the rules will change in the next 15 years, as you near 67. 

 

There are many managed funds available to you in Singapore.  Obviously, HSBC have their own in house.  Here's a link.

 

https://www.hsbc.com.sg/wealth/

 

Which ever investment house you chose, fair chance is, there is an Australian working there, which may make you feel more comfortable.  

 

Once again, if Australia are going to tax your money because you moved out of Australia, move your money out as well.  

 

[Leaver]

50 minutes ago, gearbox said:

 

That sounds quite interesting, I'll have a look myself. In regards to the aged pension it would probably involve skipping the 50K overseas assets question in the tax return.

 

Maybe you lost all your money at a casino in Cambodia.  ????

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

It's called, a bank.  ????

 

HSBC Singapore is popular with expats in Thailand.  

 

If the OP wants / needs to, he can buy some shares. 

 

If he gets the right advice, and moves his money the right way, he may even be able to receive an aged pension back in Australia.  

I'm sure the OP is going to be happy with a 0.35% return for a 12 month term deposit with HSBC, that's what they are offering on their website.

He won't get a pension unless he is in Australia when he is eligible for one. That particular bit of bureaucratic b##tardry has caught out quite a few expats.

[Leaver]

1 hour ago, gearbox said:

 This is just a different test. There are 4 different tests and I think you need to satisfy only one, not all. Have a look here:

 

https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/Coming-to-Australia-or-going-overseas/In-detail/Residency/Examples-of-residents-and-foreign-residents/

• Residency – the resides test
• Residency – the domicile test
• Residency – the 183 day test
• Residency – the superannuation test.

 

https://www.ato.gov.au/uploadedFiles/Content/IND/Downloads/Occupation_guides/n75127-DE-5543_Residency-for-tax-purposes-factsheet_W.pdf

 

 

Unfortunately the cases don't cover nomads like me, but I think I'll pass the residency test. Think about this....If I perpetually travel around the world where my abode is? If I'm not a resident of Australia then where is my residency? Am I a stateless person?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I did see those extra residency tests.  They are quite comprehensive.

 

As I asked in another post, I am wondering for how long breaching the 183 day test can continue for.  

[Leaver]

8 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I'm sure the OP is going to be happy with a 0.35% return for a 12 month term deposit with HSBC, that's what they are offering on their website.

He won't get a pension unless he is in Australia when he is eligible for one. That particular bit of bureaucratic b##tardry has caught out quite a few expats.

 

The bank is just a place to park the cash after he has liquidated in Australia. 

 

He can then look for an investment house in Singapore, or opt for HSBC's in house investment service, for which I provided a link.  

 

Cash at bank should only be one part of a diversified investment portfolio.  

 

 

[wprime]

50 minutes ago, aussienam said:

 

"This is your big problem, if you're a non-resident this would be fully taxable with no CGT concession. Get rid of it and invest in equities if you become a non-resident.

 

 

Another reason to get rid of the investment property. Stick your wealth in assets that can easily be managed from abroad like equities not tied to Australian property. As a non-resident, equity investments with fully franked dividends make your tax returns very simple."

 

I did not want to invest in shares only and have always been told to diversify my investments, hence why I chose both property and shares.  I am not comfortable with investing nearly everything I have into shares/equities.  My risk tolerance has reduced, albeit needing risk for higher returns to offset the lower tier of wealth I have managed to accumulate. 

 

The non-resident capital gains tax rate really sux as there's no CGT discount of 50% and no tax-free threshold. But at least I would have rental income (albeit taxed at non-resident resident rate again with no tax-free threshold) and depreciation to offset tax liability. 

 

If I sold the property now I'd still face a loss due to extensive very expensive renovations/repairs I had to pay when I bought the property. 

And right in the middle of a property boom too.  And in an undetermined resident status too. I may flip from a resident to non-resident to resident again.  

 

At the least  I would still potentially make a Capital Gain of whatever profit I made from a future sale with possibly the deduction from that of a full non-resident rate capital gains tax @ 33-50%?

 

If you have a lot of depreciation to claim on that property then you want to keep your capital gains discount for as long as possible so I can see the appeal of staying as a taxable resident.

 

In such a case, another option would be to treat the property as your principle place of residence, basing yourself out of it (even if you spend most of your time o/s) for 1 year out of 6. This will be enough to both maintain taxable residency and also as a bonus, get you the full capital gains discount for being your PPOR (note if you've held it longer and rented it out without ever having lived in it  yet you might still be up for some capital gains tax for gains to date).

 

Obviously work out if the cost of not having it rented out for 1/6 years is worth getting the 100% capital gains tax exemption but considering how expensive Australian property has become, I would be very surprised if it didn't.

 

The real beauty of this is you can claim depreciation for 5/6 years, which ordinarily you'd have to pay back (at 50%) because it reduces the book value of your property increasing the CGT, but since you don't have to pay CGT on your PPOR, you pocket that amount.

[Lacessit]

17 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

I did see those extra residency tests.  They are quite comprehensive.

 

As I asked in another post, I am wondering for how long breaching the 183 day test can continue for.  

I would not be particularly concerned if they apply it to the current financial year, although the circumstances of COVID may be worth a letter to my Federal MP. Bureaucracies hate questions in Parliament.

It would be more concerning for many if the ATO decided to go retrospective.

[Lacessit]

18 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

The bank is just a place to park the cash after he has liquidated in Australia. 

 

He can then look for an investment house in Singapore, or opt for HSBC's in house investment service, for which I provided a link.  

 

Cash at bank should only be one part of a diversified investment portfolio.  

 

 

Don't disagree with that; however, I'd suggest the OP does not want to get burnt in Singapore as well as Oz.

Rule 1 of investing is don't invest in anything you don't understand, presumably you have a better knowledge of Singapore investments than the OP does.

[Leaver]

4 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I would not be particularly concerned if they apply it to the current financial year,

 

My comments are more directed at a long term tax minimising strategy, not just in the short term, due to covid.  

 

I did qualify this by saying, I only recommend this if the OP has no intention of residing in Australia again.  

[gearbox]

2 hours ago, gearbox said:

It would be the border crossing records,  they do get that data. They also get all overseas bank transfers, even with Transferwise, trust me on this. They don't have your credit card purchases although...not yet, otherwise they would pinpoint your location quite well. They do have the records of your overseas ATM withdrawals, so if you want to pretend you don't live in Thailand don't withdraw cash every 10 days from the ATM next to your house ????

 

ATO is also linked to DHS so your DHS activity is with them too.

 

When you travel outside Thailand try to get your passport stamped, as this is a record of your movements between countries.

 

They may also get data when you purchase substantial asset overseas, but that data sharing would be with a few countries only...I don't think Thailand makes it there.

 

There is a lot of big data analytical software deployed there, which gradually gets more data and better algorithms.

 

For example if you wire 500K to Thailand and they get records of your boarding passes going always to Bangkok, the analytics can raise a potential case for investigation which may require further ATO officer intervention.

 

How important is this for them I can only guess, probably there is plenty of other stuff on their plate.

 

 

I can't edit my post for some reason, so commenting on it...one thing I got wrong here is that the overseas ATM withdrawals are not reported to ATO.....not yet.

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, Leaver said:

 

My comments are more directed at a long term tax minimising strategy, not just in the short term, due to covid.  

 

I did qualify this by saying, I only recommend this if the OP has no intention of residing in Australia again.  

I have a residential address in Australia, and a financial interest in that property via a loan to my son. It's a gray area. I've been in Thailand since February 2020 due to COVID, all the borders were shut about a week after I got here.

As far as tax minimisation goes, the ATO can't tax me if I supplement my part OAP by running down my capital. Ironically, my OAP will increase as I do.

[gearbox]

37 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

I did see those extra residency tests.  They are quite comprehensive.

 

As I asked in another post, I am wondering for how long breaching the 183 day test can continue for.  

 

In the tax ruling 2 years is mostly mentioned, but IMO it doesn't matter as long as you pass the domicile test. If you look at the cases some of them are for absence of at least few years,  so you can be years out of the country.

 

My accountant in Sydney who takes care of my SMSF and company returns is a close friend and their office is quite knowledgeable in the residency matters. If there was something of concern she would have contacted me already.

[Will27]

2 hours ago, gearbox said:

It would be the border crossing records,  they do get that data. They also get all overseas bank transfers, even with Transferwise, trust me on this. They don't have your credit card purchases although...not yet, otherwise they would pinpoint your location quite well. They do have the records of your overseas ATM withdrawals, so if you want to pretend you don't live in Thailand don't withdraw cash every 10 days from the ATM next to your house ????

 

ATO is also linked to DHS so your DHS activity is with them too.

 

When you travel outside Thailand try to get your passport stamped, as this is a record of your movements between countries.

 

They may also get data when you purchase substantial asset overseas, but that data sharing would be with a few countries only...I don't think Thailand makes it there.

 

There is a lot of big data analytical software deployed there, which gradually gets more data and better algorithms.

 

For example if you wire 500K to Thailand and they get records of your boarding passes going always to Bangkok, the analytics can raise a potential case for investigation which may require further ATO officer intervention.

 

How important is this for them I can only guess, probably there is plenty of other stuff on their plate.

 

 

The ATO is not as daunting as you make out IMO.

A few things.

 

They (ATO) would only have records of your banking details if they were doing a full blown investigation on someone.

These records are not available at the push of a button.

They have to be requested in writing from financial institutions.

So unless you're being audited or investigated for tax evasion or fraud, you shouldn't have a problem.

 

The ATO doesn't have records of your international travel movement outside of Australia.

They obviously can see your movements in and out of Australia.

I'm pretty sure they don't have access to boarding passes either.

 

As far as audits are concerned, it can be a random audit or one done on your occupation.

 

A lot will also depend on your taxable income.

THE ATO aren't usually in the habit of auditing someone on say, $30 000 per year.

They generally have bigger fish to fry.

 

Still best to try and fly under the radar though.

[gearbox]

22 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

My comments are more directed at a long term tax minimising strategy, not just in the short term, due to covid.  

 

I did qualify this by saying, I only recommend this if the OP has no intention of residing in Australia again.  

 

If one is a resident and above 60,  the tax advantages in Australia are hard to beat unless making 6 digits and above. Say if the retiree has income of 50K outside pension (super), the tax on that is 12%, and if he or she draws 50K from super this is tax free.  So for income of 100K the tax is 6.3K,  hard to beat this anywhere with the same quality of assets.

[Leaver]

16 minutes ago, gearbox said:

 

In the tax ruling 2 years is mostly mentioned, but IMO it doesn't matter as long as you pass the domicile test. If you look at the cases some of them are for absence of at least few years,  so you can be years out of the country.

 

My accountant in Sydney who takes care of my SMSF and company returns is a close friend and their office is quite knowledgeable in the residency matters. If there was something of concern she would have contacted me already.

 

I don't wish to alarm you, but it would not be surprising if either you, or your accountant, receive a letter from your tax department in the future. 

 

It will most probably be a "please explain" letter as to why you are out of the country, consistently, for more than 6 months of the year.  Such a letter would most likely be automatically generated by the tax computer system, based on information communicated by the immigration computer system.  I would go as far as to say, it's not if, just when.  

 

Australia is not the only government chasing every tax dollar they can get.   You may or may not be able to pass the domicile test.  You, and your accountant, should be prepared, and possibly have a Plan B in place.  

[gearbox]

11 minutes ago, Will27 said:

The ATO is not as daunting as you make out IMO.

A few things.

 

They (ATO) would only have records of your banking details if they were doing a full blown investigation on someone.

These records are not available at the push of a button.

They have to be requested in writing from financial institutions.

So unless you're being audited or investigated for tax evasion or fraud, you shouldn't have a problem.

 

The ATO doesn't have records of your international travel movement outside of Australia.

They obviously can see your movements in and out of Australia.

I'm pretty sure they don't have access to boarding passes either.

 

As far as audits are concerned, it can be a random audit or one done on your occupation.

 

A lot will also depend on your taxable income.

THE ATO aren't usually in the habit of auditing someone on say, $30 000 per year.

They generally have bigger fish to fry.

 

Still best to try and fly under the radar though.

 

Your financial dealings with entities outside Australia are available at the push of the button.

 

https://www.kinglawyers.com.au/data-matching-ato-austrac-tax-lawyer/

 

ATO has access to your foreign transfers without any auditing or extra authorization. In fact your financial dealings with the outside world can trigger an audit.

 

For example you transfer 1 mil from Australia to Thailand via bank transfer, and have zero in "Foreign income" and "Foreign Assets" in your Australian tax return.  That looks suspicious, the interest are low everywhere but you would have probably earned some interest overseas and you are required to put it in your taxable income.

[gearbox]

4 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

I don't wish to alarm you, but it would not be surprising if either you, or your accountant, receive a letter from your tax department in the future. 

 

It will most probably be a "please explain" letter as to why you are out of the country, consistently, for more than 6 months of the year.  Such a letter would most likely be automatically generated by the tax computer system, based on information communicated by the immigration computer system.  I would go as far as to say, it's not if, just when.  

 

Australia is not the only government chasing every tax dollar they can get.   You may or may not be able to pass the domicile test.  You, and your accountant, should be prepared, and possibly have a Plan B in place.  

 

I'm ready to go back for more than half an year to reset the counter to zero,  have a few planned long trips there.

[Will27]

22 minutes ago, gearbox said:

 

Your financial dealings with entities outside Australia are available at the push of the button.

 

https://www.kinglawyers.com.au/data-matching-ato-austrac-tax-lawyer/

 

ATO has access to your foreign transfers without any auditing or extra authorization. In fact your financial dealings with the outside world can trigger an audit.

 

For example you transfer 1 mil from Australia to Thailand via bank transfer, and have zero in "Foreign income" and "Foreign Assets" in your Australian tax return.  That looks suspicious, the interest are low everywhere but you would have probably earned some interest overseas and you are required to put it in your taxable income.

I wasn't talking about overseas transactions.

I was talking generally about your banking records in Australia.

 

The ATO and Immigration have had access to Austrac for well over a decade, it's not new.

 

What I'm trying to say, is  that Joe Average won't have much to worry about unless they're doing something

shonky or are subject to an audit or investigation.

 

[aussienam]

1 hour ago, wprime said:

 

If you have a lot of depreciation to claim on that property then you want to keep your capital gains discount for as long as possible so I can see the appeal of staying as a taxable resident.

 

In such a case, another option would be to treat the property as your principle place of residence, basing yourself out of it (even if you spend most of your time o/s) for 1 year out of 6. This will be enough to both maintain taxable residency and also as a bonus, get you the full capital gains discount for being your PPOR (note if you've held it longer and rented it out without ever having lived in it  yet you might still be up for some capital gains tax for gains to date).

 

Obviously work out if the cost of not having it rented out for 1/6 years is worth getting the 100% capital gains tax exemption but considering how expensive Australian property has become, I would be very surprised if it didn't.

 

The real beauty of this is you can claim depreciation for 5/6 years, which ordinarily you'd have to pay back (at 50%) because it reduces the book value of your property increasing the CGT, but since you don't have to pay CGT on your PPOR, you pocket that amount.

Thanks wprime.  Yeah biggest mistake I ever made was taking advice of adviser to sell my small PPOP and invest into shares.  This was based off the removal of non-resident CGT exemption (and a false property 'crash' at time ringing alarm bells).  Biggest life regret.  

 

PPOR - 6 YEAR RULE ONLY FOR RESIDENTS

 

I note you mentioning remaining as a resident.  But also not sure if many people knew this?  - the Principle place of residence (PPOR) can no longer be sold CGT-free if you are deemed a non-resident, despite living in it for a period of time every 6 years.  And I am to believe there is no pro-rata for the period you lived in it as a resident (you could have lived in it all your life and sold it one year into becoming a non-resident). We can all thank Scott Morrison for that one.  I wonder if he saw a religious sign in a painting for that one, for more of us to suffer?

 

And the 6 year rule, when I did have a PPOR I was told by my adviser that there was no rule on how long you needed to stay before each 6-yearly period.  He claimed generally a few months each 6 years sufficed to keep it a PPOR (and proof of residency there at the time). 

 

A year living in my investment property (as I think you meant with 1/6 years not rented out) would be brutal as I have mainly relied on that rental income to live off.  It would mean hardship as I'd have to fork out costs on the rates and everything else.   

 

PRINCIPLE PLACE OF RESIDENCE - LOSE CERTAIN ENTITLEMENTS TO DEPRECIATION  AFTER RE-LEASING PROPERTY

 

I would also lose a fair amount of depreciation because of the tax laws that were also changed to exclude certain items from depreciation if the owner moves back into the property at any point after improvements were made to the property (like fixtures, furnishings etc). Even if moving back for a week it null and voids those depreciation items.   Depreciation on capital works is still okay at the point the property is rented out again.  

 

RESIDENT VS NON-RESIDENT ISSUE

 

It is yet another very difficult thing to decide on.   

Getting at least the 50% CGT exemption means I need to remain a resident up until the point of sale (whenever that would be as well is a huge unknown).  I would rather err on the side of caution of a scenario of a non-resident at point of sale, or at the best, a resident but then having to pay a non-resident CGT portion based on my period of non-residency and the remainder at resident 50% CGT free portion.  

 

I cannot envisage a life of trying to do everything to remain a resident of Australia at the cost of being able to live my life and rehabilitate from the things in Oz that caused my disabilities. I came to Thailand for respite and up until now that has been extended periods of stay in different places.  

 

And selling the property means I need to reinvest the settlement amount into something that can generate a similar income stream.  And preferably not more investments into high risk.  I am a nervous investor and have tinkered too much as it is to my detriment.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Leaver]

2 hours ago, Will27 said:

They (ATO) would only have records of your banking details if they were doing a full blown investigation on someone.

 

The OP told his bank he is a non resident.  That information would be passed on.

 

2 hours ago, Will27 said:

The ATO doesn't have records of your international travel movement outside of Australia.

 

True, unless it's an Interpol investigation, which is not applicable in this case.    

 

2 hours ago, Will27 said:

They obviously can see your movements in and out of Australia.

 

True, hence, the risk of the 183 days outside of Australia deeming one as a non resident.  

 

2 hours ago, Will27 said:

As far as audits are concerned, it can be a random audit or one done on your occupation.

 

 

Or one done because you flag up as being consistently outside of Australia for more than 183 days.  

 

2 hours ago, Will27 said:

HE ATO aren't usually in the habit of auditing someone on say, $30 000 per year.

 

False.  $3 million or $30,000 they don't care.  In fact, the small guys are the easiest targets.  They just pay.

 

2 hours ago, Will27 said:

Still best to try and fly under the radar though.

 

True, but how does one fly under the radar when the immigration records simply show they are constantly outside of Australia for more than 183 days?  

 

What would be the point of maintaining a domicle in Australia if one lives in Thailand full time?  It's a waste, and there is a high taxes to pay.

 

If one leaves Australia, maybe it's best they money leaves also.  

[Leaver]

2 hours ago, gearbox said:

 

I'm ready to go back for more than half an year to reset the counter to zero,  have a few planned long trips there.

 

It's 6 months a year, every year.  

[Leaver]

1 hour ago, Will27 said:

What I'm trying to say, is  that Joe Average won't have much to worry about unless they're doing something

shonky or are subject to an audit or investigation.

 

 

An audit can be triggered by the communication between the immigration computer system and the tax department computer system.  It would not be if, just when.  

 

It has nothing to do with criminal behaviour.  They would not be alleging any criminal behaviour, just simply, you are a non resident for taxation purposes, and you owe tax monies.  

 

The issue for the OP is, if the tax department catch you out on one year, they can, and most probably will, issue a bill for all previous years the OP has been outside of Australia for more than 183 days.  If you don't want to pay, take the government to Court.    

 

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

 

 

Australia is not the only government chasing every tax dollar they can get.   You may or may not be able to pass the domicile test.  You, and your accountant, should be prepared, and possibly have a Plan B in place.  

One would think the ATO should be chasing the likes of Murdoch and Google, but as someone else implied, we can't afford the lawyers.

A few years ago, I had a weird query from the ATO. They wanted to know if I had any bank accounts in Andorra. I had to look it up on Google to see where it was. I guess one of the tax fiends decided to fly a kite to see how many respondents sounded guilty.

[Leaver]

11 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

One would think the ATO should be chasing the likes of Murdoch and Google, but as someone else implied, we can't afford the lawyers.

A few years ago, I had a weird query from the ATO. They wanted to know if I had any bank accounts in Andorra. I had to look it up on Google to see where it was. I guess one of the tax fiends decided to fly a kite to see how many respondents sounded guilty.

 

It's like getting a speeding fine from traffic police.  The fine might be, say, 100 quid, but it might cost you 400 quid to fight it in court, with no guarantee of winning.

 

Tax departments are the same, unless it's a big test case.  

 

They can send the tax payer a bill and sit back and wait.  If the tax payer wishes to dispute the bill, the tax department may negotiate, but you will still pay because it's cheaper than going to Court.

 

If one is out of the country consistently for 183 days, there maybe no way to dispute your residency status other than going to Court with the government, and that will probably be more expensive than paying the tax bill.

 

This is why I have said, if the OP leaves Australia, maybe it's best their money leaves also.  It's not a big deal.  Many have moved their life saving to Thailand, but I would never recommend moving one's life saving to Thailand.  

[Will27]

58 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

The OP told his bank he is a non resident.  That information would be passed on.

 

 

True, unless it's an Interpol investigation, which is not applicable in this case.    

 

 

True, hence, the risk of the 183 days outside of Australia deeming one as a non resident.  

 

 

Or one done because you flag up as being consistently outside of Australia for more than 183 days.  

 

 

False.  $3 million or $30,000 they don't care.  In fact, the small guys are the easiest targets.  They just pay.

 

 

True, but how does one fly under the radar when the immigration records simply show they are constantly outside of Australia for more than 183 days?  

 

What would be the point of maintaining a domicle in Australia if one lives in Thailand full time?  It's a waste, and there is a high taxes to pay.

 

If one leaves Australia, maybe it's best they money leaves also.  

 

58 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

The OP told his bank he is a non resident.  That information would be passed on.

 

 

True, unless it's an Interpol investigation, which is not applicable in this case.    

 

 

True, hence, the risk of the 183 days outside of Australia deeming one as a non resident.  

 

 

Or one done because you flag up as being consistently outside of Australia for more than 183 days.  

 

 

False.  $3 million or $30,000 they don't care.  In fact, the small guys are the easiest targets.  They just pay.

 

 

True, but how does one fly under the radar when the immigration records simply show they are constantly outside of Australia for more than 183 days?  

 

What would be the point of maintaining a domicle in Australia if one lives in Thailand full time?  It's a waste, and there is a high taxes to pay.

 

If one leaves Australia, maybe it's best they money leaves also.  

I think you've got some stuff incorrect.

 

You don't get flagged for an audit for staying outside of Australia for more than 183 days. BTW, you seem to be obsessed with the 183 day rule.

 

You may get flagged for being out of the country for long periods of time.

I'm not sure if you know the difference between an amendment by the ATO and an audit.

 

I can tell you that the ATO doesn't waste time and resources auditing people on low incomes unless they're a target.

 

The vast majority or expats in Thailand would be considered non-residents but the ATO doesn't want to be seen as targeting pensioners.

 

Edited May 1, 2021 by Will27

[Will27]

48 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

It's 6 months a year, every year.  

It's been mentioned before, that is not correct.

There are other factors taken into account for residency purposes.