Help and Advice on the Road to Thai Citizenship

[jaiyenyen]

Hi.

I've decided to apply to become a Thai citizen. Tomorrow morning, I intend going to the Royal Thai Police HQ to get the checklist of requirements.

My wife is Thai, so I don't need advice on Permanent Residence. I'm just looking for any tips from people married to a Thai, that have gained citizenship in the past, or who are going through the process at the moment.

I've done a search on here but nothing really came up.

 

[ubonjoe]

This ongoing topic has lots of info in it.

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/121353-story-of-my-thai-citizenship-application/

Look at the last few pages for recent experiences.

Also this document has info on the requirements. 

Guidelines and documents required for application for Thai citizenship by naturalization77.51 kB · 310 downloads  

 

[jaiyenyen]

Thanks Ubon.

 

I was sure I'd read something on TV about it, but couldn't find it in the search.

[problemfarang]

my suggestion would be to read the requirements carefully, because you dont need to do some of them. Of course all up to your score. Every item in the list has a score. And total of 50 from 100 will give you the citizenship. For example; if you are already 50 the last 2 items in the list are singing the national anthem and the royal song.. Well if you are already 50 just skip them. That both total is 10 points (5+5). I would skipped them because its like there will be 30 thai people listening to you. Scary for me. But of course you can skip other items which you dont want to do or cant.

 

Another thing is at the police station they will give you a form to fill in, that will be in thai. thats to check if you can read and write thai. Also there will be another thai written exam in the future about Thailand and the monarchy too. I think its around 10 points (read + write thai). i cannot remember the points for the written exam but should be around 10 again. 

 

good luck

[jaiyenyen]

Thanks for your advice problemfarang.

The Thai language part could be tricky for me. My Thai is pretty basic. I can say a few phrases but I couldn't hold a conversation beyond a couple of sentences. Reading and writing? Nothing.

As I understand it, the Language part isn't important, and you don't have to sing the songs if you are married to a Thai. Is this correct?

[problemfarang]

51 minutes ago, jaiyenyen said:

Thanks for your advice problemfarang.

The Thai language part could be tricky for me. My Thai is pretty basic. I can say a few phrases but I couldn't hold a conversation beyond a couple of sentences. Reading and writing? Nothing.

As I understand it, the Language part isn't important, and you don't have to sing the songs if you are married to a Thai. Is this correct?

 

Hi again,

I heard that too, i mean no singing if your married to a thai. But if you read the item list, its still there even if your married to a thai. So, im not 100% sure. 

About reading, writing and speaking thai.. Well they all have points. 5 per each. But these tests wont happen like soon.. so actually you can practice your speaking. for example i can speak fluent thai and esan but no hope about writing and reading. the whole process will take probably 3 years. In this 3 years now im not sure but i believe they will give you kinda special visa telling your applied for citizenship and all you need to do is 90 days. (UbonJoe knows better probably about this visa)

 

Let me give you the scoring which is currently:

 

*40-50 age is 10 points / 30-40 5pts. / 50-60 8pts.

*BA degree 8 points / Master 10pts / phd 15 pts. / technical college 2 pts

*40K-50K income 15 pts. / 50K-60K 20 pts. / 

*having a yellow book for 5 years 5-10pts. (up to your residency situation) / 10 years 20pts.

*speaking and understanding thai 8 pts.

*speaking and understanding thai and sing national anthem and royal anthem 10 pts.

*speaking and understanding thai and sing national anthem and royal anthem and read thai 13 pts.

*speaking and understanding thai and sing national anthem and royal anthem and read thai and write 15 pts.

*personality: this is how you look, how you thai salute them when you enter the interview, etc. Up yo 5 points..

*knowledge of thailand (this is the written multiple choice and writing test about thailand in thai questions like, how many cities in thailand? how many proviences, who was the 10th rama? etc.

1-5 correct answers 5 pts /6-8 answers 8 pts. / 9-10 answers 10 pts. 

 

well total is 100 and all you need is 50. Im failed with the score 46. Couldnt read, sing the anthems, write. So my total was 46. If i could read or write or sing.. any one of them.. i would get more than 50. then later i met a lawyer who told me i can be a thai if i pay 2million baht... well, i said no of course. Also later i heard that you dont need to SING but can read it like a poem reading. If you tell them like your sick or cannot sing but you know and can read it like a poem, but this is something i heard so not sure.. when you think it make sense though.. 

 

 

Good luck

 

 

 

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by problemfarang

[EricTh]

6 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

This ongoing topic has lots of info in it.

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/121353-story-of-my-thai-citizenship-application/

Look at the last few pages for recent experiences.

Also this document has info on the requirements. 

Guidelines and documents required for application for Thai citizenship by naturalization77.51 kB · 310 downloads  

 

What about getting permanent residency but not citizenship. Is there such an option?

[jaiyenyen]

48 minutes ago, problemfarang said:

i believe they will give you kinda special visa telling your applied for citizenship and all you need to do is 90 days. (UbonJoe knows better probably about this visa)

I've not heard of this before. Ubon Joe? Do you have any information on this special visa?

I'm on a Non Imm 'O' extended on the basis of marriage.

[problemfarang]

@jaiyenyen Sorry i did some edits on my post.. maybe you can read again.. thanks

[EricTh]

12 minutes ago, problemfarang said:

 

Hi again,

I heard that too, i mean no singing if your married to a thai. But if you read the item list, its still there even if your married to a thai. So, im not 100% sure. 

About reading, writing and speaking thai.. Well they all have points. 5 per each. But these tests wont happen like soon.. so actually you can practice your speaking. for example i can speak fluent thai and esan but no hope about writing and reading. the whole process will take probably 3 years. In this 3 years now im not sure but i believe they will give you kinda special visa telling your applied for citizenship and all you need to do is 90 days. (UbonJoe knows better probably about this visa)

 

Let me give you the scoring which is currently:

 

*40-50 age is 10 points / 30-40 5pts. / 50-60 8pts.

*BA degree 8 points / Master 10pts / phd 15 pts. / technical college 2 pts

*40K-50K income 15 pts. / 50K-60K 20 pts. / 

*having a yellow book for 5 years 5-10pts. (up to your residency situation) / 10 years 20pts.

*speaking and understanding thai 8 pts.

*speaking and understanding thai and sing national anthem and royal anthem 10 pts.

*speaking and understanding thai and sing national anthem and royal anthem and read thai 13 pts.

*speaking and understanding thai and sing national anthem and royal anthem and read thai and write 15 pts.

*personality: this is how you look, how you thai salute them when you enter the interview, etc. Up yo 5 points..

*knowledge of thailand (this is the written multiple choice and writing test about thailand in thai questions like, how many cities in thailand? how many proviences, who was the 10th rama? etc.

1-5 correct answers 5 pts /6-8 answers 8 pts. / 9-10 answers 10 pts. 

 

well total is 100 and all you need is 50. Im failed with he score 46. Couldnt read, sing the anthems, write. So my total was 46. If i could read or write or sing.. any one of them.. i would get more than 50. then later i met a lawyer who told me i can be a thai if i pay 2million baht... well, i said no of course.

 

 

 

Do you have any income in Thailand to get the points?

 

I don't think I've a problem with singing Thai songs as I like to sing anyway.

 

Which was the toughest for you?

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by EricTh

[problemfarang]

1 minute ago, EricTh said:

 

Do you have any income in Thailand?

 

I don't think I've a problem with singing Thai songs as I like to sing anyway.

 

Which was the toughest for you?

 

hi,

yes im working in thailand for a military company and yes have income.

for me the most difficult part was singing. well.. i know its funny but i jsut cannot sing any song. And there are 30 random thai people sitting in front of you and they give you a mic and suddenly music starts... 555555 was a full nightmare for me 555

i failed with the score of 46. i cannot sing.. cannot write and read thai. But i can speak fluently both Thai and Esan

Edited May 4, 2021 by problemfarang

[ubonjoe]

40 minutes ago, jaiyenyen said:

I've not heard of this before. Ubon Joe? Do you have any information on this special visa?

I'm on a Non Imm 'O' extended on the basis of marriage.

There is not special extension after applying for citizenship. You have to keep getting the extension based upon marriage until citizenship is granted.

For a permanent residency application there 6 months extensions that can be applied for.

[timendres]

1 hour ago, jaiyenyen said:

Thanks for your advice problemfarang.

The Thai language part could be tricky for me. My Thai is pretty basic. I can say a few phrases but I couldn't hold a conversation beyond a couple of sentences. Reading and writing? Nothing.

As I understand it, the Language part isn't important, and you don't have to sing the songs if you are married to a Thai. Is this correct?

 

Inquired with an agent once, and they basically told me that not being relatively fluent in Thai conversation would effectively fail me. Reading and writing was a bonus. Since I can speak, read and write Thai, they indicated this would be a real advantage. They referred to the point system, but stated that this one element was more important than just getting the necessary points. The agent strongly recommended foregoing the citizenship and focusing on a permanent residency. I did neither. The PR has no real value to me, and the citizenship looked too involved for too little value. Wondering if others have any more concrete evidence regarding spoken Thai fluency.

Edited May 4, 2021 by timendres

[ubonjoe]

44 minutes ago, EricTh said:

What about getting permanent residency but not citizenship. Is there such an option?

Permanent residency can be applied for but it costs a lot more that citizenship. After it is approved the certificate for it costs around 93k baht if married to a Thai. It is double that if not married.

[EricTh]

2 hours ago, problemfarang said:

hi,

yes im working in thailand for a military company and yes have income.

for me the most difficult part was singing. well.. i know its funny but i jsut cannot sing any song. And there are 30 random thai people sitting in front of you and they give you a mic and suddenly music starts... 555555 was a full nightmare for me 555

i failed with the score of 46. i cannot sing.. cannot write and read thai. But i can speak fluently both Thai and Esan

 

I wish I could get points for working in Thailand but I can't get any in that area.

 

What is the level of reading and writing Thai required? Is it at lower intermediate level or high advanced level?

 

Is there an oral test for Thai language as well?

Edited May 4, 2021 by EricTh

[EricTh]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Permanent residency can be applied for but it costs a lot more that citizenship. After it is approved the certificate for it costs around 93k baht if married to a Thai. It is double that if not married.

 

Is there any application fee prior to that? What are the requirements?

 

[ubonjoe]

10 minutes ago, EricTh said:

 

Is there any application fee prior to that? What are the requirements?

 

The fee or the application is 7,600 baht.

Requirements are here. Permanent Residency Requirements June 2019.pdf

[problemfarang]

2 hours ago, EricTh said:

 

I wish I could get points for working in Thailand but I can't get any in that area.

 

What is the level of reading and writing Thai required? Is it at lower intermediate level or high advanced level?

 

Is there an oral test for Thai language as well?

 

sorry about that ????

 

well, first they start with basic, asking you to introduce yourself and tell a lil about yourself.. Then they ask some questions, why you want to be a thai, do you often do donations... etc. if your thai is ok, they let you go in 5 min. If not they ask more questions... 

 

for the level.. I would say they are looking for somethin between intermediate level and high level. 

[Neeranam]

5 hours ago, problemfarang said:

hi,

yes im working in thailand for a military company and yes have income.

for me the most difficult part was singing. well.. i know its funny but i jsut cannot sing any song. And there are 30 random thai people sitting in front of you and they give you a mic and suddenly music starts... 555555 was a full nightmare for me 555

i failed with the score of 46. i cannot sing.. cannot write and read thai. But i can speak fluently both Thai and Esan

Was this at the interview at the Ministry of Interior? 

I thought they didn't interview applicants with less than 50 points. 

[Neeranam]

6 hours ago, jaiyenyen said:

As I understand it, the Language part isn't important, and you don't have to sing the songs if you are married to a Thai. Is this correct?

That's true if you have over 50 points.

They asked me to sing the song as I was borderline points. However, I got extra points when I showed my PG degree, so got off with singing it.

[Neeranam]

You don't have to speak Thai, your wife can translate. 

[jack71]

16 hours ago, timendres said:

The agent strongly recommended foregoing the citizenship and focusing on a permanent residency

I dont understand whats the difference between the 2 options. Advantages/ dis-ad of both option?

[Neeranam]

22 minutes ago, jack71 said:

I dont understand whats the difference between the 2 options. Advantages/ dis-ad of both option?

Citizenship has many more benefits, obviously. Like owning a business or land, for example. 

[Stevemercer]

This is an interesting discussion. I always assumed I could not get citizenship because one had to work and pay taxes (that is probably for permanent residency). Based on the point system in an earlier post, I would get over 50 points without speaking or writing Thai.

 

Citizenship would be an advantage to me simply for tax reasons. My superannuation is taxed in my home country at 33%. Under the Thai/Aust tax agreement I would only pay tax at the Thai rate if I was a Thai citizen.

 

 Has anyone got citizenship without speaking fluent Thai?

[problemfarang]

12 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Was this at the interview at the Ministry of Interior? 

I thought they didn't interview applicants with less than 50 points. 

 

They do interview. Because the interview also adds score to you. Singing and interview were not in the same day for me. When they invited me again for the singing part i told them i cannot sing and gave them my reason. They told just to be there in any case. I went there and i waited my turn with other 4 people. 2 of them also couldnt sing + me. 1 sang it and actually he did a good job. 

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, problemfarang said:

 

They do interview. Because the interview also adds score to you. Singing and interview were not in the same day for me. When they invited me again for the singing part i told them i cannot sing and gave them my reason. They told just to be there in any case. I went there and i waited my turn with other 4 people. 2 of them also couldnt sing + me. 1 sang it and actually he did a good job. 

You went for an appointment with the MOI on a seperate day to sing the songs? 

How long ago was this? 

SB police told me that anyone with under 50 points would not be accepted.

[Neeranam]

11 minutes ago, Stevemercer said:

Has anyone got citizenship without speaking fluent Thai?

Yes, many. 

[problemfarang]

5 minutes ago, Stevemercer said:

This is an interesting discussion. I always assumed I could not get citizenship because one had to work and pay taxes (that is probably for permanent residency). Based on the point system in an earlier post, I would get over 50 points without speaking or writing Thai.

 

Citizenship would be an advantage to me simply for tax reasons. My superannuation is taxed in my home country at 33%. Under the Thai/Aust tax agreement I would only pay tax at the Thai rate if I was a Thai citizen.

 

 Has anyone got citizenship without speaking fluent Thai?

 

Well everything is up to the points you get for sure.. But its also the decision of a committee around 5 people. I would imagine they wont let you pass without speaking at least daily level of thai language. Well tbh i wouldnt. I think thats why language part has high scores if you checked my scoring list, its 8 pts by itself.

[Freddy42OZ]

18 hours ago, problemfarang said:

 

Let me give you the scoring which is currently:

 

*40-50 age is 10 points / 30-40 5pts. / 50-60 8pts.

*BA degree 8 points / Master 10pts / phd 15 pts. / technical college 2 pts

 

*40K-50K income 15 pts. / 50K-60K 20 pts. / 

 

*having a yellow book for 5 years 5-10pts. (up to your residency situation) / 10 years 20pts.

*speaking and understanding thai 8 pts.

*speaking and understanding thai and sing national anthem and royal anthem 10 pts.

*speaking and understanding thai and sing national anthem and royal anthem and read thai 13 pts.

*speaking and understanding thai and sing national anthem and royal anthem and read thai and write 15 pts.

*personality: this is how you look, how you thai salute them when you enter the interview, etc. Up yo 5 points..

*knowledge of thailand (this is the written multiple choice and writing test about thailand in thai questions like, how many cities in thailand? how many proviences, who was the 10th rama? etc.

1-5 correct answers 5 pts /6-8 answers 8 pts. / 9-10 answers 10 pts. 

 

well total is 100 and all you need is 50. Im failed with the score 46. Couldnt read, sing the anthems, write. So my total was 46. If i could read or write or sing.. any one of them.. i would get more than 50. then later i met a lawyer who told me i can be a thai if i pay 2million baht... well, i said no of course. Also later i heard that you dont need to SING but can read it like a poem reading. If you tell them like your sick or cannot sing but you know and can read it like a poem, but this is something i heard so not sure.. when you think it make sense though.. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting.  

I wonder if they'd look at someone differently if they had a business here employing lots of people and generating in excess of a million baht a month?  
 

 

[problemfarang]

Just now, Neeranam said:

You went for an appointment with the MOI on a seperate day to sing the songs? 

How long ago was this? 

SB police told me that anyone with under 50 points would not be accepted.

 

yes, my interview and the singing part were not in the same day. If i remember correctly I already had 47 points at that time (thats what they told me) And they said they will do the singing in 3-4 days they need to arrange few things before the anthem part. and he told me i can get more than 50 for sure, which he has no idea about i have no intentions to sing the anthems. 

there was 3 days between interview and anthems. This was i think 4-5 yrs ago