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Thailand lures the rich as tourism revival hope fades


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17 hours ago, Thailand said:

Might be a good idea to look to those long termers already here putting billions in to the economy.

That is something that is tangible not pie in the sky.

 

but... what if they don't like the ones they have? It's like they're tired of the woman they married, so they're fantasizing about getting a trophy wife

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Might be a good idea to look to those long termers already here putting billions in to the economy. That is something that is tangible not pie in the sky.  

Thailand lures the rich with yet another big, juicy nuthin' burger.   If they wanna attract anybody, they need to get their population vaccinated so they can do away with the quarantine.  Un

Nobody's coming, give it up already.    

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16 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

This guy worked for JP Morgan so is no dummy.

Unfortunately, his superiors mostly seem to be when it comes to economic matters.

I like his ideas but do not generally see much being changed.

If anything, the retirement type Visa may be adjusted but i bet he will suggest it is only for high dollar retirees.  Probably need a much larger lump sum in the bank or much higher monthly income to qualify.

The low monthly pensioners I doubt will see any changes as that is not the group he appears to be focusing on.

I never see typical foreigners being able to buy land.  Possibly,  at some price point like minimum 30 million b and up.

 

Regarding:"I never see typical foreigners being able to buy land. ".

In my opinion it would be disastrous to allow rich foreigners to buy land in Thailand.
It will completely unbalance everything, the price of land will rocket and locals will be unable to buy land.

In Spain, during Franco's regime, only Spaniards could own land and prices were reasonable and stable.
When foreigners were allowed to buy land, the locals got greedy and land prices rocketed, to the point where even rich foreigners are no longer smiling.

The way to get more retirees is simple, make it easy for them.
Look at the big picture not the small one.
I appreciate that just because you're married to a Thai shouldn't just open up everything without restriction.
But there seems to be a difference between the rules applied to a foreign female married to a Thai person and a foreign man married to a Thai person.
Maybe they should have a qualifying period so if you have been married for a number of years and lived in Thailand, then get rid of the TM 30 and the 90 day reports. What would really help would be a foreigners ID card initially valid for five years and and then renewed at 10 years.
This could be a married Visa and would give the ability to work if required because at the moment a retiree on a retired Visa is not allowed to work even for charity.
This is exactly what Spain have done for my wife so it would be nice if Thailand reciprocated for me and others in my position.

One of the worst things about living permanently in Thailand is the chance that you are unable to renew your extension.
Currently it takes two visits to immigration, the first, if everything is in order, gets you a month in Thailand.
At the second visit, if everything is in order, you get the remaining 11 months.
At any point due to any crisis or other, the authorities may just decide you can no longer reside in Thailand, this is really not acceptable.
Married retirees most often sell everything in their home country and invest everything in Thailand.
If they are no longer welcome to stay, what can they do.
Perhaps most of their wealth has been moved into London property and expensive items like cars and motorbikes et cetera.
The threat of a family being torn apart in this way is stressful.
A situation best avoided and this alone could be a good reason that many reasonably well off foreigners refused to retire in Thailand.

Thailand has always been suspicious of foreigners and would rather not have them, but they need them.
I first saw Thailand 50 years ago and in rural parts the people were not familiar with foreigners.
We were a curiosity but in those days we were welcome.
Those days have gone, foreigners are no longer a curiosity, they are a cash cow and barely tolerated.
We have to be careful what we tolerate, because we are teaching them how to treat us.
There is nothing under our control that can make any difference when in Thailand.
All we can do is stay out Thailand, if we stay out long enough and our numbers dwindle, maybe then things will have to change.
But I'm not holding my breath.
In Thailand change is not embraced, it is applied only when it's absolutely forced so to do.
What a shame.

 

 

 

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I seem to recall that a few years ago there was a woman with TAT that thought it would be a good idea to expand the Pokemon Hunting game and make it a little more specific to Thailand.

Why are they not reviving this little gem, surely this would attract the rich in droves.

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17 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

This guy worked for JP Morgan so is no dummy.

Unfortunately, his superiors mostly seem to be when it comes to economic matters.

I like his ideas but do not generally see much being changed.

If anything, the retirement type Visa may be adjusted but i bet he will suggest it is only for high dollar retirees.  Probably need a much larger lump sum in the bank or much higher monthly income to qualify.

The low monthly pensioners I doubt will see any changes as that is not the group he appears to be focusing on.

I never see typical foreigners being able to buy land.  Possibly,  at some price point like minimum 30 million b and up.

 

You mean J P Morgan has no dummies employed ? After all it's an American company.......

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His task force is aiming to attract high-net-worth individuals – the same kind that wealth managers and investment bankers target – including an estimated 200 million retirees worldwide living off their pensions or savings.

90% of which will be managing on 1500 GBP/USD/EUR or less p. month. So it's millionnaires and billionaires and an army of Cheap Charlies. Bit of a contradiction.

 

Anyway, as long as travelling's such a hassle due to the raging pandemic & quarantine requirements, nobody will book a trip, as pointed out on pg. one already.

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20 hours ago, webfact said:

New long-stay visa scheme will aim at the same high-net-worth individuals targeted by investment banks and wealth managers

 

So they're still laboring under the assumption that such individuals grow on trees?

 

Talk about your magical thinking. 🤣

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Thailand has lost its charm. In the 60s and 70s it was an interesting and cheap place in Asia to visit.

   Now it is not so cheap to stay at, as the price of meals in restaurants have risen a lot, and the price

if guest houses, or Hotels are not as cheap.  It is still cheaper than Europe for some things, but once

you have seen the sights and museums a few times, Thailand is just an Asian country.  TAT and the

dreamy government can try woo the rich, but good luck, as most of them are not rich because they are

stupid.   As some posters have said, maybe try to give your long stay expats a better deal and in the 

future, Thailand may get more long stay expats. Something to think about Prayut, TAT and others who

actually have a bit of power to change things in Thailand.

Geezer

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12 hours ago, rumak said:

 

not bad, LL .     An exposé is a film or piece of writing which reveals the truth about a situation or person

 

looking forward to one on :    from hansum all night man........  to where has all my pension gone 



Ahh yes my own gripping (to me anyway) saga of mid 20s early retiree flush with cash, a clifftop villa, and the energy to party till 6am and go home with multiple birds of a night, 5 or 6 nights a week... To almost ready for my geezer visa, bald head, a house in the country and a couple of dogs.. 

 

Not quite the Hogarths Rakes Progress but not a million miles from it.. 🤣

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9 hours ago, Nickelbeer said:

They don't seem to understand that Europe is generally where the "rich" tend to retire, if they leave the United States. They can live most anywhere they want to. The wealthy, whether American or British, have no compelling reason to leave their home country. Most of them can travel until they tire of it. The failure of the Thai government to understand that Thailand is a "low cost of living" haven for those with normal incomes, is one of the mysteries of Thai reasoning.


Agree.. The real rich probably have multiple homes, somewhere sunny and with clear legal infrastructure, which is a base for thier frequent travel to exotic and exciting places. Its the modest wealth they might attract now at best (I also think they are missing a huge trick for online workers, which wouldnt need much imagination at all to capitalize on, but hey).. 

The sad fact for Thailand is they were the poster child of exotic and exciting, back in the 80s and 90s.. And then gradually slid down the ranks as it became passe and sold out to mass tourism.. You cant wish yourself into a 5 star destination, it takes good governance, social order and control, civic investment and social responsibility. There was a time (when I was new !!) mid late 90s and even early 2000 I actually thought they might manage it, but the propensity for me first-ism and greed of the tourism industry sold itself out. 

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1 hour ago, kynikoi said:

On it's face this is absurd.

 

Thailand offers nothing to wealthy people. In fact, most wealthy Thai try and leave.

 

First, given the handling of the covid crisis, the bungling aside... is this somewhere that you would have faith cares for you at least as much as the least of its citizens? No. In fact, the past months have given us a number of prejudiced statements often bordering jingoism.

 

Next, the roads are absolutely deadly and the country is by and large unsafe due to carelessness, indifference and nneglect. Deadly.

 

Legal recourse for which there is none. Buy a house and the land title bad? Some mafia type simply claims title to your villa and land then pays the courts off? Sorry, you lose. Build a house and contractor cheated you? Oh well. Purchase a boat and can't get it through customs? Purchase furnishings and can't get them through customs?

 

There is no exemption on duty for personal belongings to this country for rretirees. That a home does not make.

 

Getting totally ripped off on some scam? No recourse even for Thais.

 

Poor medical services throughout the nation. Four tiered medical services common. Private hospitals given carte blanche to rip off sick patients. No recourse.

 

Pollution levels are setting world records throughout the nation. There is absolutely zero interest in addressing the issue. THIS is a huge issue for wealthy people.

 

I suspect most of the wealthy Thailand hopes to attract are over fifty. Medical insurance is an outright scam. Further, it often comes with exclusions, high deductibles and the companies will cut you after claims. It is very difficult to get in country insurance at 70 and impossible at 80.

 

All expatriates know the hassles, inconsistencies and headaches of Thai immigration. This is one area that could be improved easily because none of it needs to exist. The only trouble is that the Thai bureaucracy is so insensitive, uncaring and uneducated in Thai immigration law that they will never be able to not be discourteous, insensitive and even knowledgeable. The grabbing hand will never cease to look for anything it can pull to it's breast.

 

Thailand has utterly failed in producing a visa cum residence any expatriate can feel comfortable and secure. It should be granting permanent residency to thousands annually and citizenship to hundreds. Retirement visas should come with high end government guaranteed insurance from private hospitals to ward off the scams.

 

The government itself has really been a huge question mark and this actually goes back to Taksin and the turn of the century. Nevertheless, it is very difficult to see wealthy people from western countries approving of the shenanigans of the past decade. The authoritarian posture of the government aside, its ministers have made several anti foreign remarks that are extremely unwelcoming.

 

Even Thais complain about the paperwork in the nation but it's additionally onerous for foreigners. What's more it's actually PAPERwork.

 

Thailand has lost its appeal and draw. Everyone that has seen it and done it. The only people left are the Chinese faux middle class and single male Indians. It's done. There are simply too many negatives in home countries coupled with negatives here to make it enjoyable to live. That's commoners.

 

There is an absolute dearth of coastal property, few marinas, no real live aboard facilities.

 

The grabbing hand of Thailand will figure out some way to tax income.

 

Wealthy people have friends that are not wealthy. These expat friends will provide a litany of problems in living here. This will be far more a factor then the Thai dreamers believe. In fact, I'm certain it's not occurred to them at all. They need to fix what they have.

 

Phuket and Samui are known to be difficult to live having to navigate the scam real estate industry as well as the daily hassles. Of course, wealthy people have money to lift themselves above the fray but there will always exist an underlying greed and hassle.

 

Thailand has a great cuisine. I live on it. Others may choose not to. The government seems to tax foreign foodstuffs to the stratosphere. Moreover, it is simply impossible to get high quality foods that in the west are quite reasonably priced.

 

Education at every level is an abject and absolute failure. It sadly shows everywhere from the Big Box Store to highest levels of government.

 

Nothing moves ahead unless someone gets paid.

 

Murder island has quieted but do we remember that?

 

There are perhaps a dozen or so more serious issues that will stymie attracting wealthy to Thailand.

 

While I'm far from wealthy I do have a few friends and family members that are well off. They have well furnished waterfront homes, boats and jetskis, cleaning and gardeners, eat better than one could ever here (and I love Thai food). I know many who live in Florida on golf courses. They don't drive to the club they make a call then putter on over to the first tee in their own golf carts. When younger their children attend private or very good public schools. Finally, they have Medicare and supplemental insurance.

 

Wealthy people might not have an especially high concern for the average Thai pleb but when you decide to live in another country by choice one does want the best for it's citizenry.

 

The fact is Thailand is looking far more like the Philippines or Cambodia these days than Singapore or New Zealand.

 

Thailand will be able to syphon off wealthy Asians with nowhere else to turn. Maybe that is the focus. A conduit to hide wealth and simply be a little bit better than the mess they're running away from.

 

Thais are struggling and it's not that LOS any longer.

 

So. Many. Truths. !!!

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Thailand is now down to 18th on the index of the most desirable countries for retirement but continues to live in Lala Land about attracting rich retirees. A couple of weeks ago, a government financial genius was talking about attracting 1 million retirees who could spend at least THB100K each per month, despite the fact that Thailand had only 80,000 foreign retirees prior to COVID.

They need to take a Wakeup pill and face the cold light of dawn. They could easily get a million retirees but whose only source of income is a government pension of say THB40K per month. And what's the downside to that? By my reckoning that's THB480,000 x 1,000,000, coming into the Thai economy in foreign currency each year, with every Baht of it spent in Thailand. And the government wouldn't need to lift a finger to collect it - it could be paid directly into Thai bank accounts.

Message to Thai government - stop daydreaming. You don't need financial whizz-kids to point you in the right direction when a little common sense would suffice.

 

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2 hours ago, kynikoi said:

Thailand offers nothing to wealthy people.

 

I don't think this is exactly true. Thailand has its own unique vibe and is relatively easy to settle into. I don't think it's ideal as a single location, but as part of a dual or multi-city rotation? Definitely has appeal.

 

2 hours ago, kynikoi said:

I suspect most of the wealthy Thailand hopes to attract are over fifty.

 

This might be more of the problem. Gov may be targeting the wrong demographic.

 

I think Thailand appeals most to relatively affluent under-40s because (i) it offers a high quality of life at low cost, allowing high earners to enjoy life while stacking; and (ii) has plenty to explore, and is in close enough in proximity to a ton of other high-interest destinations that there's always plenty to do.

 

Conversely if I were a rich senior and looking for a home in the region, Singapore looks waay more appealing than Thailand does. Although Thailand's appeal does shoot up a bit with the uncertainty in Hong Kong.

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3 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

 

Not quite the Hogarths Rakes Progress

 

See ,   once in a while we TV  readers,  after being bored to death with the usual topics and replies ( no names !  lol )  ............... can be awakened with some tidbit that sends the mind and feet scrambling to get to the library.    oh,  i forgot.    We got GOOOOOOGLE.

 

and so it seems that wealth and depravity has existed for............... well,  probably forever 555

 

I hope there is another life,    as i have already requested that next time I want to be born to some bloody rich parents.   An only child if possible !

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We can't get 40 million normal tourists so let's go for 10 million rich ones and we'll get the same money for less work.

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On 5/5/2021 at 6:25 AM, colinneil said:

Dont they ever get tired of spouting that silly bloody nonsense?

Rich tourists/ poor tourists will not be coming for a long time yet, time to get that fact out in the open.

Which is exactly why they want to try and lure them back. 

If it's going to work, and to what degree is debatable. Personally, I don't think it is going to hurt. 

And any time you can do anything that cant hurt but could help, I think is worth doing. 

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On 5/5/2021 at 11:09 PM, Albert Zweistein said:

You mean J P Morgan has no dummies employed ? After all it's an American company.......

That does not sound like a very bright comment to me. Do you work for an American company? 

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Usually referring to people that have 30+ million baht.

 

What do you do with millions in Thailand, get an expensive condo in Bangkok and just sit there? Buy a villa in Kamala and order take out?

 

The lifestyle is just not there for the wealthy.

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On 5/5/2021 at 10:11 AM, impulse said:

Thailand lures the rich with yet another big, juicy nuthin' burger.

 

If they wanna attract anybody, they need to get their population vaccinated so they can do away with the quarantine.  Until the quarantine requirement goes away, nothing will work.

 

Nah. I'd go like a shot if they did away with the 800,000 baht requirement ( replace it with a decent health insurance policy requirement ) for extensions, and an easy one year visa, extendable without all the BS they have added in the past, 90 day notifications etc.

I don't care if I have to quarantine for 2 weeks, as it's no big deal if I'm staying for a year, or longer.

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55 minutes ago, DerbyDan said:

What do you do with millions in Thailand, get an expensive condo in Bangkok and just sit there? Buy a villa in Kamala and order take out?

 

The lifestyle is just not there for the wealthy.

 

Assuming normal life (post-Covid), what do you do with millions in any other city that's different from what you do in Bangkok?

 

The idea that Thailand has no inherent appeal for wealthy tourists - especially on shorter term holidays - is ridiculous and I have no idea why so many forumers here seem to believe this.

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22 minutes ago, The Cipher said:

 

Assuming normal life (post-Covid), what do you do with millions in any other city that's different from what you do in Bangkok?

 

The idea that Thailand has no inherent appeal for wealthy tourists - especially on shorter term holidays - is ridiculous and I have no idea why so many forumers here seem to believe this.

 

Mostly cultural stuff, plays, concerts, art museums, things with class.

 

I lived years in Bangkok. It's just a big sweaty city, mostly bars and drinking.

 

If I was in Paris I could sit at classy outdoor cafes during the day, attend cultural events, art museums, there would be a "scene" there I could break into and make associates and friends.

 

In Bangkok I was just sitting at bars, people did not have much class, it felt low end. In higher end nightlife people were basically unapproachable, especially if the were Thai. Some of the problem could be me and other places are more comfortable.

 

I don't have millions, but I can test the lifestyle out once in awhile. It just did not seem to click in Thailand.

 

I never tried high end island stuff though, yachting etc, maybe there is a scene there that's different then the city. 

 

Lived in Chiang Mai for years, nothing there much for the wealthy to do unless you just want to live like a local, which is ok for some wealthy people, just a rarity.

 

What do you think there is to do there that would appeal to the wealthy long term other then expensive bars and restaurants?

Edited by DerbyDan
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When I first visited Thailand in the 80s, it was beautiful. Quiet, clean, and uniquely different. And to experience it, you had to come here.

 

These days though Thailand is noisy, dirty, and no different to any other low to mid ranking industrial country.

 

You don't have to travel half way around the world to sit in traffic fumes across from a McDonalds while the people around you play with their phones. If they are so minded, pretty much anyone can do that at home.

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58 minutes ago, The Cipher said:

 

Assuming normal life (post-Covid), what do you do with millions in any other city that's different from what you do in Bangkok?

 

The idea that Thailand has no inherent appeal for wealthy tourists - especially on shorter term holidays - is ridiculous and I have no idea why so many forumers here seem to believe this.

 

Ahhh, the optimism of a newbie. Refreshing.

 

Thailand has limited appeal for the wealthy, but it's not in Bangkok. Besides a few overpriced and underwhelming restaurants and clubs, Bangkok just a gritty, vibrant city of traffic, shopping malls and dirty red-light districts. Nothing for well heeled foreigners, especially those with families.

 

The islands and the beachfront Villas, personal staff, boats, island hopping, diving, Thai Chef and food and warm climate can be appealing for a week or so, and give a wonderful impression of Thailand, and many wealthy foreigners own such Villas in Phuket or Samui and come for 2 weeks during Christmas and rent the Villa out the remaining time. They are hardly long-term residents by definition.

 

Thailand just isn't a long-term residence for wealthy people. They expect more and will be bored silly.

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24 minutes ago, DerbyDan said:

Mostly cultural stuff, plays, concerts, art museums, things with class.

 

If I was in Paris I could sit at classy outdoor cafes during the day, attend cultural events, art museums, there would be a "scene" there.

 

So that's fair. If frequent traditionally high culture activities are your jam then I'd agree that Bangkok isn't the place to be.

 

My point was more that Thailand has its niche, and that 'the wealthy' are not the homogeneous group that it sometimes sounds like the forum characterizes them as.

 

Watching a talented opera singer hit their notes? Has experiential value. Stumbling out of a dingy Thai after-hours at 4am? Also has experiential value. And isn't that one of the best perks of wealth? - The ability to create your own tapestry of custom experiences.

 

And Thailand has a lot more appeal than it's bars too. I think if the government can accurately identify the location's true unique value proposition, there is a pitch to be made to tourists of all stripes - including the wealthy.  Do I think that they'll actually fnd and make that pitch? Not really lol.

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8 minutes ago, DLock said:

Ahhh, the optimism of a newbie. Refreshing.

 

Not sure if I just got shade thrown at me 😛

 

10 minutes ago, DLock said:

Thailand has limited appeal for the wealthy, but it's not in Bangkok. Besides a few overpriced and underwhelming restaurants and clubs, Bangkok just a gritty, vibrant city of traffic, shopping malls and dirty red-light districts. Nothing for well heeled foreigners, especially those with families.

 

The islands and the beachfront Villas, personal staff, boats, island hopping, diving, Thai Chef and food and warm climate can be appealing for a week or so, and give a wonderful impression of Thailand, and many wealthy foreigners own such Villas in Phuket or Samui and come for 2 weeks during Christmas and rent the Villa out the remaining time

 

Actually I agree with part of this. I don't think this is a great place for folks with families. I definitely wouldn't want my kids growing up here beyond age 7 or so.

 

Also agree that Thailand is not ideal as a full-time destination for the wealthy without the ability to take frequent trips abroad. Although I'd argue that I have yet to find a city that has enough on its own where I don't feel bored after a few months, so I'm not sure that's just a Thailand problem.

 

I've said elsewhere on here that I think Thailand - and Bangkok specifically - is best as a part-of-the-year residence for wealthy under 40s who are still in 'kill mode'. Because it offers the ability to live a 'work hard play hard' lifestyle at fantastic value for money, meaning that those folks can live a high-quality life while maximizing wealth accumulation at the same time.

 

For seniors though, or folks with families, I imagine that a lot of the things that make Bangkok appealingly 'quirky, vibrant, and exciting' for young people quickly turn into annoyances. Those folks might be better off basing elsewhere and doing the short-term luxury island retreat thing that you outlined in your post.

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, The Cipher said:

I've said elsewhere on here that I think Thailand - and Bangkok specifically - is best as a part-of-the-year residence for wealthy under 40s who are still in 'kill mode'. Because it offers the ability to live a 'work hard play hard' lifestyle at fantastic value for money.

 

It's up to you Missur Bond (stop folding, stop folding, stop folding...)

Edited by DerbyDan
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