To jab or not to jab? Here’s why the answer should always be yes

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

Perhaps we should wait until the science is in on that issue. I think the pro-vaxx lobby is also standing on the proposition if you get a vaccine, your probability of having health effects which disable you for months becomes vanishingly small.

You're that confident of the Sinovac (50% effective) vaccine?

 

[sawadee1947]

9 hours ago, timendres said:

My question is simple: which vaccine?

Even the Chinese stuff is better than dying 

[sawadee1947]

13 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

You're that confident of the Sinovac (50% effective) vaccine?

 

 

16 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Thailand appears to be mainly offering Sinovac, which is supposed to be a tad over 50% effective.

Using logic, an ability something many pro-vaxxers don't appear to have, if 100% of the population are vaccinated with 50% effective vaccine, essentially 50% of the population are still unprotected so your '75% immunity' can never happen.

Well, but you will save 50% lives. 

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

Your choice. However, IMO it is almost inevitable people who wish to travel internationally will have to furnish proof of vaccination before any airline will let them on board.

Interestingly enough this came up on a largely American forum in which I participate.

Apparently, there is no central database for COVID vaccination in the USA, your proof is a hand written scrap of paper any printer can produce.

CDC say not their responsibility to keep records, up to individual states (who mainly haven't bothered).

Same in the UK, most vaccination centers don't even give a certificate of vaccination.

 

So how would an airline check?

Blood test at the check-in desk is the only way I can see.

[richard_smith237]

20 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Thailand appears to be mainly offering Sinovac, which is supposed to be a tad over 50% effective.

Using logic, an ability something many pro-vaxxers don't appear to have, if 100% of the population are vaccinated with 50% effective vaccine, essentially 50% of the population are still unprotected so your '75% immunity' can never happen.

 

Your logic is flawed and you are over simplifying and more complex matter of herd immunity and highlights a lack of understanding. 

 

Sinovac protects 50% of people from contracting Covid-19

 

Sinovac protects 78% of people from having medium to severe symptoms (i.e. 28% of those who do contract Covid-19 has symptoms so mild they hardly notice it, their viral load is far less, they are contagious for a much more brief period of time - this aiding prevention of transmission compared to unvaccinated people)

 

Sinovac protects 100% of people from having serious symptoms (and death), people with serious symptoms are far more contagious, for a far longer period of time. Additionally, the more people there are with severe symptoms the greater the likelihood of antigenic drift (development of variants within a community). 

 

 

 

 

[Lacessit]

23 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

 

Using logic, an ability something many pro-vaxxers don't appear to have, if 100% of the population are vaccinated with 50% effective vaccine, essentially 50% of the population are still unprotected so your '75% immunity' can never happen.

LOL, can I infer from that anti-vaxxers have logic on their side? Here I was thinking it was conspicuous by its absence.

[richard_smith237]

8 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

 

Well, but you will save 50% lives. 

 

Incorrect - Sinovoc can protect 100% of lives. 

 

The efficacy of 50.4% (>70% in some areas with Sinovac) means that 50.4% of people who are exposed to SARS-CoV-2 do not contract Covid-19 at all. 

 

78% of people are protected form having serious symptoms.  i.e. 50% do not contract Covid-19 at all, an additional 28% test positive for carrying the SARS-CoV-2 virus, some of whom present with mild Covid-19 symptoms. 

 

The remaining 22% can suffer moderate symptoms, but none have severe or life threatening symptoms. 

 

(according to all reports so far). 

 

[starky]

28 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Thailand appears to be mainly offering Sinovac, which is supposed to be a tad over 50% effective.

Using logic, an ability something many pro-vaxxers don't appear to have, if 100% of the population are vaccinated with 50% effective vaccine, essentially 50% of the population are still unprotected so your '75% immunity' can never happen.

Logic? You wanna talk logic? You must be extracting the urine. Logic dictates any vaccine is still better than no vaccine especially in regards to mortality or long term serious effects f f s . 

[starky]

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Incorrect - Sinovoc can protect 100% of lives. 

 

The efficacy of 50.4% (>70% in some areas with Sinovac) means that 50.4% of people who are exposed to SARS-CoV-2 do not contract Covid-19 at all. 

 

78% of people are protected form having serious symptoms.  i.e. 50% do not contract Covid-19 at all, an additional 28% test positive for carrying the SARS-CoV-2 virus, some of whom present with mild Covid-19 symptoms. 

 

The remaining 22% can suffer moderate symptoms, but none have severe or life threatening symptoms. 

 

(according to all reports so far). 

 

Your wasting your breath. Conspiracy theorists just deflect change tact and find some other nonsense to support their confused narratives.

[richard_smith237]

11 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Interestingly enough this came up on a largely American forum in which I participate.

Apparently, there is no central database for COVID vaccination in the USA, your proof is a hand written scrap of paper any printer can produce.

CDC say not their responsibility to keep records, up to individual states (who mainly haven't bothered).

Same in the UK, most vaccination centers don't even give a certificate of vaccination.

 

So how would an airline check?

Blood test at the check-in desk is the only way I can see.

 

People can access their medical records !!!

 

IF proof of vaccination is required for international travel and someone doesn’t have proof of vaccination and wishes to travel the onus is on them to gain proof or be refused travel - thats how an airline would check !

 

 

Everyone I know in the UK who has been vaccinated has the certificate (small card) which of course can be lost. 

There is still digital proof on their medical records. 

 

 

 

 

[Lacessit]

24 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

You're that confident of the Sinovac (50% effective) vaccine?

 

I would much rather have a Western vaccine ( which the Russians and Chinese are trying to discredit with massive disinformation campaigns on social media ) than something that was developed by the same country that started the whole mess by covering up.

Having said that, I am confident Sinovac would give me a much better chance of surviving than staying unvaccinated, because I am in the most vulnerable age group. So yes, I would have it if no other option was available.

[Pesche]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

Your choice. However, IMO it is almost inevitable people who wish to travel internationally will have to furnish proof of vaccination before any airline will let them on board.

In other words you are willing to board a on brand new plane which has never been tested if it is even able to fly?

[johng]

16 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

Even the Chinese stuff is better than dying 

 

3500000  deaths out of a total world population of  7800000000  = 0.04487179487179487 %

[sawadee1947]

3 minutes ago, johng said:

 

3500000  deaths out of a total world population of  7800000000  = 0.04487179487179487 %

And your point is???? 

[Lacessit]

16 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Interestingly enough this came up on a largely American forum in which I participate.

Apparently, there is no central database for COVID vaccination in the USA, your proof is a hand written scrap of paper any printer can produce.

CDC say not their responsibility to keep records, up to individual states (who mainly haven't bothered).

Same in the UK, most vaccination centers don't even give a certificate of vaccination.

 

So how would an airline check?

Blood test at the check-in desk is the only way I can see.

I was talking about what could happen in the future, not now. Most international travellers have a vaccination card.

I suppose a blood test at the airline might benefit mankind, Jehovah's Witnesses and the like would have to stay where they are until lawyers helped out with discrimination lawsuits.

[johng]

Just now, sawadee1947 said:

And your point is???? 

The chance of dying of/with Covid is quite small.

[Lacessit]

8 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

No long term effects ??? Are you sure about that ??? we've been reading your arguments ????????

Ouch

[BritManToo]

Just now, Lacessit said:

I was talking about what could happen in the future, not now. Most international travellers have a vaccination card.

I suspect you and I will be long dead before most countries get their POV in order and verifiable.

[2 is 1]

6 hours ago, Catoni said:

Apparently Pfizer-BioNTech also has less side effects.  In my case just a bit of a sore upper arm muscle for a couple days. No big deal. The Tetanus vaccine and Shingrix vaccine gave me more of a sore upper arm muscle. 

How much sore your muscle get is also up to nurse who shoot that one! How deep in muscle put vaccine, how fast press piston et cetera. Not all come from what "liquid" they put there!

[BritManToo]

Just now, Lacessit said:

Ouch

Please don't quote people I have on 'ignore', I have no wish to read their nonsense.

[sawadee1947]

15 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Incorrect - Sinovoc can protect 100% of lives. 

 

The efficacy of 50.4% (>70% in some areas with Sinovac) means that 50.4% of people who are exposed to SARS-CoV-2 do not contract Covid-19 at all. 

 

78% of people are protected form having serious symptoms.  i.e. 50% do not contract Covid-19 at all, an additional 28% test positive for carrying the SARS-CoV-2 virus, some of whom present with mild Covid-19 symptoms. 

 

The remaining 22% can suffer moderate symptoms, but none have severe or life threatening symptoms. 

 

(according to all reports so far). 

 

Not quite right. It doesn't matter what percentage of life saving the Chinese vaccine will do. Fact is it will save lives. 

[sawadee1947]

5 minutes ago, johng said:

The chance of dying of/with Covid is quite small.

Really? I think you should watch some reports of India, hospitals in particular 

[AgentSmith]

9 hours ago, starky said:

At this point it doesn't matter. If you have the time, money, inclination and ability to choose good for you. For the rest of the world who has no choice we need to get everyone vaccinated as quickly as possible with what we have. Once we get into yearly boosters some vaccines will end up being clear winners and then we can huff and puff about what's best. 

   Now isn't that time, vaccinating everyone is.

  Im no virologist nor epidemiologist but nor are any of the self proclaimed experts of the last 14 months who want to argue effiacy and other things they have read on Dr. Google. Truth is any vaccine atm is more effective than no vaccine and until the real experts argue otherwise ill run with that.

Well said! The world just needs to be pricked asap period. No arguments, no discussion, no room for hesitation. Just efffing do it.

 

That said... I hope to be able to get one of the mRNA vaccines here in LOS. Moderna was just approved yesterday so fingers crossed. These vaccines have the highest efficacy of them all. It's true that basically all of them prevent hospitalization which is the main goal. But future mutations are a real danger as long as large parts of the world aren't vaccinated and then I'd rather start with the highest efficacy possible. Another advantage mRNA vaccines have over the more traditional types is the speed with which they can be adapted. They can be changed and mass produced in a matter of weeks and we very likely need that ability to protect the global population against this new virus. Also we probably need a booster every 6 months not once a year so I was told by a friend in this kind of research. They're already looking into vaccine 'cocktails' for multiple mutations. I'm also definitely not a virologist or epidemiologist but if I may use an IT term then I'm expecting rolling releases of the vaccine where people going for the half yearly booster always simply get the latest cocktail. If we manage to maintain that for the next few years and we can reach every human being on earth with this program (with preferably 80% of people in every region actually taking the vaccine) then I think we have a chance to beat this thing for good.

Edited May 14, 2021 by AgentSmith

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

Please don't quote people I have on 'ignore', I have no wish to read their nonsense.

Please don't tell me what I am supposed to post on TV, you are not a moderator.

I don't know your ignore list, and I don't have the time to read it.

[BritManToo]

^^^^^ You're on it now.

[riclag]

 I respect the right of others who prefer not to have a shot !

For myself , I have been taking a flu shot most of my adult life, on account of my respiratory conditions (acid reflux and asthma)  .

If I was without risk , I would still take the shot (anything but sinovac) as a preventive measure ! 

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by riclag

[Susco]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

Vaccines are effective to varying degrees against Covid-19 (the disease).

For example, Sinovac is 50.4% effective against contraction of Covid-19, it is 78% effective against contracting mild symptoms of Covid-19 and is 100% effective against contraction severe symptoms of Covid-19 (and death). 

 

BUT, the virus can still be ‘breathed in’ someone can still carry SARS-CoV-2 and effectively be ‘asymptomatic’

 

So since a very small percentage of infected people is symptomatic, and an ever smaller percentage dies, the vaccine is a waste of time.

 

Since ALL vaccines claim to be 100% effective against death, I wonder why we have read already several reports from all over the world, where vaccinated people have died after being vaccinated?

[AgentSmith]

4 minutes ago, Susco said:

 

So since a very small percentage of infected people is symptomatic, and an ever smaller percentage dies, the vaccine is a waste of time.

 

Since ALL vaccines claim to be 100% effective against death, I wonder why we have read already several reports from all over the world, where vaccinated people have died after being vaccinated?

Nonsense, vaccinated people haven't died and I highly doubt you can come up with even one reliable source for that claim. Please don't spread this social media nonsense. This vaccine protects 100% against death period. End of discussion. The rest is just misinformed bull poop.

Edited May 14, 2021 by AgentSmith

[Susco]

4 minutes ago, AgentSmith said:

Nonsense, vaccinated people haven't died and I highly doubt you can come up with even one reliable source for that claim. Please don't spread this social media nonsense. This vaccine protects 100% against death period. End of discussion. The rest is just misinformed bull poop.

 

Are you Richard Smith's agent?

 

There are plenty of CREDIBLE reports of it if you take the time to search for them.

 

Since you gonna deny them anyway, I can't even be bothered to do your homework.

[BestB]

To me it is not about get or not get but what would happen if I do not .

 

will I be allowed to fly ? Travel by public transport ? And so on or will I be singled out for not getting it .

 

it’s all nice to talk about choices but I am afraid it may not be a matter of choice when you have many restrictions should you chose not to get it