Taxing/re-registering a chopper (non-standard motorcycle)

[Tapster]

The attached photo is my chopper.

It is mainly custom but in the green book it's registered as a Honda NT 650; the only Honda parts are the engine, the front of the frame and the wheels.

 

In the past, when I had it re-taxed, I was told that it could never be taken to the Dept of Land Transport because it was too non-standard. I believed them and so I'd pay approx 4,000 THB a year for tax, to a shady guy who knew another shady guy at the DLT.

 

Fast forward five years to 2021. I now want to sell the bike.

I haven't had the bike taxed in 5 years (naughty me) and I'm told by the shady guy that this means I'll need a completely new green book.

I'm told by a different shady guy that 5 years without tax means that I never have to get the bike taxed again as it's free if you go 5 years without tax ... this sounds very unlikely but I've now heard it twice.

 

It seems reasonable that the DLT would have a problem with the lack of original parts; they wouldn't pass my wife's scooter because it had a non-standard exhaust.

But what's with needing a new green book?? And do I really have to take the word of shady guys who are now asking for 9,000 THB for the bike to be taxed up-to-date.

 

Can anyone please tell me what's the score with non-standard bikes?   ????

[johng]

21 minutes ago, Tapster said:

Can anyone please tell me what's the score with non-standard bikes? 

 

I believe you are totally at the mercy of the "shady guy at the DLT"  for yearly "registration"   

you probably have a "grey" green book  quite "dodgy"

keep it until it dies or confiscated by the plod please don't sell it to some unsuspecting person thinking they can register and own it themself...if sold to use on private property/off road or museum then ok that's a different matter.

[Tapster]

@johng

 

Thanks for the opinion.

 

The green book is real. It has all my details in it and the details of the German guy I bought it from , etc. etc., down the line.

 

Right now, I can't find a shady guy I can trust! (Ah, Thailand!)

 

My previous, reliable shady guy has disappeared.

 

So, you don't know anything about the 'can't take the bike to DLT' issue, or the 'don't have to pay road tax after 5 years' non-payment' issue?

 

????

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, Tapster said:

Can anyone please tell me what's the score with non-standard bikes?   ????

 

 

You have been played..

Don't listen to clowns on TV.

 

Please go to your local DLT with the green book you can sort with them no worries at all, if the engine number and frame number on your bike are the same in the green book you do not have a problem.

 

From experience with the bike I have now after being told a load of rubbish here on TV I ended up having no problem at all at DLT.

[Tapster]

@Kwasaki

 

That sounds like good news. I really want to believe you!

I'd like to go to the DLT myself. I've dealt with them successfully several times.

 

What about the undeniable facts that my bike doesn't have a speedo, odometer or petrol gauge and that it does have a very loud exhaust?

 

How can DLT ignore all that if they complained about my wife's non-standard exhaust, on her PCX-150?

 

????

 

 

[johng]

11 minutes ago, Tapster said:

can't take the bike to DLT' issue

 

You can't take it to the DLT because its a "grey" green book  IE:  if they run it through the computer it won't be found in their database and there will be  some "plomplems"

[Kwasaki]

9 minutes ago, johng said:

 

You can't take it to the DLT because its a "grey" green book  IE:  if they run it through the computer it won't be found in their database and there will be  some "plomplems"

It's modified old bike a Honda NT 650 thats be customised.

If the VIN and engine numbers are in the greed book then the DLT just sort it out and you pay out to get it sorted that's what did.

What have you done.  

[Kwasaki]

30 minutes ago, Tapster said:

@Kwasaki

 

That sounds like good news. I really want to believe you!

I'd like to go to the DLT myself. I've dealt with them successfully several times.

 

What about the undeniable facts that my bike doesn't have a speedo, odometer or petrol gauge and that it does have a very loud exhaust?

 

How can DLT ignore all that if they complained about my wife's non-standard exhaust, on her PCX-150?

 

????

The loud exhaust may be a problem but easy to solve.

DLT was only interested on vin and engines numbers with my bike they didn't start it up.

Begs the question has the bike ever been Taxed for road and had CTPL govt insurance if so I cannot see a problem if the details in the book are the same on the bike.

Get Honda NT 650 sticker made up and stick it on side of the fuel tank , DLT people know nowt about old bikes.

Our DLT was great the guy checking my bike numbers didn't have a clue what my bike was..

[canthai55]

As with all things in LOS each DLT has their own procedures.

Even tho' the green book has the correct VIN it may well have been issued to another bike, and the details changed. This has happened before.

My Dyna when first inspected way back when had a non standard headlight, as well as exhaust. Took a 'Fixer' to smooth the away.

After that always took it to private inspection stations for the yearly hoop jumping.

 

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

Use an authorized DLT Agent...... they are everywhere.

If Green Book issued / updated by DLT it will be cleared on their data base.

New Owner takes Green Book, Bill of Sale (in thai), Seller ID to change Owner Name

They wont want to look at the vehicle

DLT were very good in my case of Car Changes for Blue Book / Owner / Location / Plate 

100 baht “fee” for all DLT paperwork

BUT that was for a fully legit taxed car bought from govt. civil servant.......no insurance or bank case....

We Tax / Inspect / Insure it religiously every year - 

Surely you MUST complete / update this activity in your name BEFORE putting up for sale......

 

there are licensed DLT Agents that can do all this for you, for owner convenience, not to evade DLT.

because my thai lady does this all direct with DLT I dont know any agent details.

Local Bike Shops will know the local (authorized) DLT Agents...... or be one themselves.......they are known to be “flexible” in all DLT matters, for reasonable consideration .....

 

 

 

[Tapster]

@WhiteBuffaloATM

 

You are busy tonight! I have just responded to a helpful post of yours on an immigration thread of mine.

Thank you!

 

Yes, I intend to sort out this tax before I sell it. Not only will I get more money but I don't think many buyers would want to take on such a Machiavellian retaxing method, especially after 5 years.

 

I think I'm going to go to one of the govt.-approved testing garages and get an idea of how easy it will be when I go to DLT. I'm sure they'll tell me how things stand. 

 

Trouble is, I've already given 3,200 THB to my shady guy to start this process. I will never get that back, but by-passing him might be cheaper in the long run. He's the second guy who's said the I need a new green book after so many years. That doesn't sound right, does it?

[Tapster]

@Kwasaki

 

I'm warming to the idea of taking it to the DLT myself. I am getting sick and tired of being at the mercy of dodgy guys!

Thank for all the advice. 

[jackdd]

15 minutes ago, Tapster said:

I'm warming to the idea of taking it to the DLT myself.

Don't listen to the clowns here on TV, if you go to the DLT yourself you won't be able to do it.

They won't even transfer the owner of a vehicle if it has a tidy tail or an aftermarket exhaust, the chance with your bike is basically zero.

After not paying tax for more than 3 years you have to get a new green book and new license plates (and pay the outstanding tax plus interest on it, and you could be fined up to 1000THB)

 

You need somebody who knows the guys at the DLT and can arrange it for a fee.

Here what happens after not paying tax for three years, just use Google translate: https://auto.mthai.com/news/tips/57517.html

Edited May 15, 2021 by jackdd

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

yes mate but I’m saying use a DLT Agent so you dont need to go to DLT HQ yourself .....

those testing garages will include or know such Agent ........

just added some more thoughts on that Imm. case as I also know of a quite different but equally serious Imm.- case , together with a temporary “solution” which might somehow apply in your case.

yes busy here tonight, trying to help out but only from my direct personal experience or knowledge ...

(watching Live Premier League Football in between posts at present......)

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

agree with jackdd above DLT post on this.......

[Tapster]

@jackdd

 

"Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right: here I am, stuck on Thai Visa with you!"

 

It was all going so well!

 

Having translated the article you attached, it seems that my bike's registration has definitely been suspended. This means that I may need a new green book and new number plates; then pay the outstanding tax and a small fine.

The need for a new green book is something that two Thai guys have already told me. It seems they were correct. The guy who is helping me at the moment has my green book and the number plate. I wondered why he needed the plate, but it now makes sense, if I need a new plate, for the re-registration.

 

Argh! 

I'm very grateful for your input. It wildly differs from that offered by other posters, but you have backed it up with a source, and that is compelling.

 

Right now, I'm thinking I might be better off going with the shady Thai guys and their DLT contacts. At least I'll have a bike that I can sell, so long as the buyer is willing to continue the honorable tradition of dealing under-the-counter with the locals.

 

Looking forward to any follow-up posts.  I'm off for a beer.

Thanks!!

 

 

[johng]

10 hours ago, Tapster said:

Looking forward to any follow-up posts.

 

Also looking forward to your follow up posts after taking the bike to be "inspected" at the  DLT.

[Tapster]

 

 

If you read my last post, you'll see that I'm going with the shady guy to whom I've already paid 3,200 THB.

 

The Thai language post above confirms what two Thai bike guys have already told me, to wit:

 

• I probably do need a new green book 
   
• My bike is no longer registered, so I can't sell it legitimately
   
• I also need to return the number plate to DLT, for replacement
   

The bottom line is that I haven't been lied to by 'shady operators'. I doubt that I could sort this out myself, so I'm going to see what my current contact can do.

 

All I wanted here, was an indication of what was the correct law on the subject, and how I should proceed. It seems that I have that. I don't speak Thai, so I'm certainly not going to try and negotiate this complex area of vehicle law!

 

Thank you, everyone, for your opinions. If I get time I'll post the outcome of my tale.

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, Tapster said:

 

 

If you read my last post, you'll see that I'm going with the shady guy to whom I've already paid 3,200 THB.

 

The Thai language post above confirms what two Thai bike guys have already told me, to wit:

 

• I probably do need a new green book 
   
• My bike is no longer registered, so I can't sell it legitimately
   
• I also need to return the number plate to DLT, for replacement
   

The bottom line is that I haven't been lied to by 'shady operators'. I doubt that I could sort this out myself, so I'm going to see what my current contact can do.

 

All I wanted here, was an indication of what was the correct law on the subject, and how I should proceed. It seems that I have that. I don't speak Thai, so I'm certainly not going to try and negotiate this complex area of vehicle law!

 

Thank you, everyone, for your opinions. If I get time I'll post the outcome of my tale.

If you don't go to the DLT you will never know, my DLT was very helpful don't know about your DLT, getting my bike sorted was no problem after being told by big bike Honda it was obsolete and here aswell by people saying I couldn't re-registered etc etc etc and that it was scrap.

 

Many here think they know it all, I  have experienced the fact law or no law they talk BS here,  this is Thailand and people can be helpful.  

 

Edited May 16, 2021 by Kwasaki

[Tapster]

@Kwasaki

 

I hear you, man, I really do.

 

Thing is, I have already committed 3,200 THB that I will never see again, to my Thai guy.

The loss-of-face to my guy if I tell him that I'm now doing it on my own, will result in fireworks. I have experienced him once before when he thought he'd lost face; he was like a little boy throwing a tantrum, except that this little boy is well connected.

 

Then there's the possibility that all the non-standard parts (or lack of parts!) will send DLT into fits!

Over the years, I have been told many times that my bike must never see the inside of an official testing station.

 

If I was starting from scratch, and hadn't committed any money, I'd follow your advice, because I like doing sh*t like this on my own.

 

This thread has confirmed that I'm not being totally lied to, so I'll go with my guy and we'll see what happens. Spoke to him today and he seems keen to get it all finished this week. Sounds good to me!   ????

[Kwasaki]

32 minutes ago, Tapster said:

@Kwasaki

 

I hear you, man, I really do.

 

Thing is, I have already committed 3,200 THB that I will never see again, to my Thai guy.

The loss-of-face to my guy if I tell him that I'm now doing it on my own, will result in fireworks. I have experienced him once before when he thought he'd lost face; he was like a little boy throwing a tantrum, except that this little boy is well connected.

 

Then there's the possibility that all the non-standard parts (or lack of parts!) will send DLT into fits!

Over the years, I have been told many times that my bike must never see the inside of an official testing station.

 

If I was starting from scratch, and hadn't committed any money, I'd follow your advice, because I like doing sh*t like this on my own.

 

This thread has confirmed that I'm not being totally lied to, so I'll go with my guy and we'll see what happens. Spoke to him today and he seems keen to get it all finished this week. Sounds good to me!   ????

OK up to you but I never stood for that with my bikes Thai previous owner, the DLT would of sorted him out. 

I now own my 27 year old bike and it's all legally sorted out by DLT with a new book with all the alterations that were required, after there inspection, got a new number plate for my province and everything good thanks to my DLT. 

[jackdd]

17 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

I now own my 27 year old bike and it's all legally sorted out by DLT with a new book with all the alterations that were required, after there inspection, got a new number plate for my province and everything good thanks to my DLT. 

Which severe modifications did you do on your bike?

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

Which severe modifications did you do on your bike?

My bike has mods, alterations and many replacements because it's old but nothing severe, the chopped bike a neighbour has I would say is severe and has a green book, road worthy and has been taxed and insured over the years, and it's been no problem because the engine number & frame number are the same as in the green book.

Colour change has not been a problem with the bike as it still has some of the original colour, that is my experience of yearly bike inspections of where I live. 

 

My bike has a story but briefly no-one at our DLT had a problem with my bike because all they we're interested in and did was check the green book with frame & eng numbers.

The bike had been off the road for nearly 7 years all they asked was what color do you want in the new green book because it was not the same in the old one.  

I said I just keep it the colour it is now and pointed out the bike has a different front from original year and the OEM exhaust is not available anymore so it has after market one. 

They said it doesn't matter.

 

[Tapster]

Thank you, everyone, for your thoughts and opinions.

 

Here's what happened:

 

I had a strong feeling, from previous experience, that I shouldn't go near the DLT, for reasons I have detailed above.

 

I was right!

 

I turned up with my Thai 'adviser'. He did nothing, and a gaggle of four inspectors looked over my bike for 20 minutes. I was charged a mere 10 THB for the inspection and then told, by a very polite inspector, that my bike did not correspond to the details in my Green Book. Sure, the engine was a Honda, but there were so many non-standard parts that they couldn't licence/register it.

 

My 'adviser' was a little bit embarrassed, and his unsmiling friend, the contact I'd paid for from the DLT, remained unsmiling and unhelpful.

 

I was allowed to drive home, even cheered by the inspectors for having such a cool bike, but I was told (in a happy and smiley, totally Thai way) that:

• I can ride the bike but I should avoid the police.
• I no longer have to pay annual road tax.
• The Green Book is now non-transferable; they stamped every page to say so.
• I can sell the bike, but the new owner cannot register it in their own name, however they can have a bill of sale to prove that it's theirs.
• If I'd paid my road tax every year, I'd have avoided all this trouble. (This begs the question: how could I have paid my tax without appearing at the DLT every time, which would have created the problems I'm describing.)

Takeaways:

•  If you have a non-standard bike, pay your tax every year, via a 'dodgy' Thai guy,  so you don't get noticed or have to go to the DLT.
• Don't believe any BS you are told about anything: take a Thai friend/contact to the DLT first, and find out what would happen in your, hypothetical, circumstances, mentioning no names. 

[jackdd]

35 minutes ago, Tapster said:

If I'd paid my road tax every year, I'd have avoided all this trouble. (This begs the question: how could I have paid my tax without appearing at the DLT every time, which would have created the problems I'm describing.)

The DLT isn't interested in seeing your bike if you are just paying your tax.

If a bike is older than 5 years you have to get a certificate from a "ตรอ" shop certifying that your bike is road worthy, but they are more flexible (for a fee) than the DLT. And if one shop doesn't want to issue you this certificate you can just go to another, there are no negative consequences if they turn you down. You do this until one of them issues you this certificate, then you get the compulsory insurance and pay the tax (you can buy the insurance from them, and for a small fee they also offer to take your green book to the DLT for you)

 

When transferring the owner you can't avoid a check at the DLT, and then it can go down the way it just went for you.

Edited May 29, 2021 by jackdd

[canthai55]

13 hours ago, Tapster said:

 (This begs the question: how could I have paid my tax without appearing at the DLT every time, which would have created the problems I'm describing.)

You were told in this thread how to do this.

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by canthai55

[johng]

19 hours ago, Tapster said:

• I can ride the bike but I should avoid the police.
• I no longer have to pay annual road tax.
• The Green Book is now non-transferable; they stamped every page to say so.
• I can sell the bike, but the new owner cannot register it in their own name, however they can have a bill of sale to prove that it's theirs.
• If I'd paid my road tax every year, I'd have avoided all this trouble. (This begs the question: how could I have paid my tax without appearing at the DLT every time, which would have created the problems I'm describing.)

 

Well what did I say ?

On 5/15/2021 at 6:39 PM, johng said:

you probably have a "grey" green book  quite "dodgy"

keep it until it dies or confiscated by the plod please don't sell it to some unsuspecting person thinking they can register and own it themself...if sold to use on private property/off road or museum then ok that's a different matter.

 

and

 

On 5/15/2021 at 8:11 PM, johng said:

You can't take it to the DLT because its a "grey" green book  IE:  if they run it through the computer it won't be found in their database and there will be  some "plomplems"

 

You could have had the bike inspected, pay road tax and insurance at one of the "inspection centres"   not at the DLT.

The "green book"  would still have been a "grey book"  meaning that  although it is an official looking book the details on it  do not match the records in the DLT database   some "jiggery pokery" had been done to achieve the green book .

 

You can sell it but the new owner will not be able to register it in their name and legally drive it on the road  same as you are not really legally on the road   hence the   "I should avoid the police"     when they see it has no tax sticker they can/will ask to see the green book and then the "plomplems" start.

 

[canthai55]

Plus - if you are ever in an accident, your fault or not, and they find out your were riding an illegal bike on the road, who do you think will bear the brunt of this ?

Insurance companies have people on salary to check these details before they pay out a claim.