Jump to content
BANGKOK
Sign in to follow this  
Maizefarmer

9 Arrested In California For Plot Against Laos Government

Recommended Posts

Oh my god.

When do these people realize that the war is over? I cannot stand those insurgencies - nobody gains, and it makes life or normal people intolerable. Expect a new round of persecution of Hmong in Laos. :o

Sure. We should have said the same in 1940 : "the war is over. So why bother ?"

It's not an insurgency. It's simply "resistance" against a gvt of killers, mafioso style with a touch of stalinism, who continue to hunt down Hmong people, even now.

However, I agree with you, the war is over, indeed. The US have had already betrayed and abandoned Hmong and freedom fighthers (useless tools, and rather embarassing, after the pull back from Vietnam in 70's).

So, it's just another betrayal.

There will be probably other.

It's a shame.

Hardly a word of truth in here.

While it's true that Lao Hmong continue to be persecuted in Laos. it has nothing to do with America or the war. They are persecuted because of their birth rate in comparison to the Lao people and many refuse to "come in" to become Village people" and become "Lao" as the Lao PDR would wish. The operations of would be insurgency groups are separate from this, as their aim is to seek economic influence in Lao through gaining their own autonomous state. Their aims put the lives of remaining Lao mong further at risk. America has taken in The Lao Hming of the Vietnam War period and their offspring and their offsprings offspring. If they didn't take more it's because the IOM and UNHCR didn't see fit to register more as legitimate refugees.

I will say this however. It is true the US has betrayed and abandoned the Vietnamese Montagnard people, who were their allies during the war. This betrayal can be put down to the efforts of one man, Senator John Kerry, who blocked proposals which were unanimously supported in the US Congress, which would have aided them. It's mystery to me why he did this, but there was internet talk that his family made a lot of money in Vietnamese commercial ventures. You can Google it if you wish to know more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007-06/...ent_6199121.htm

The group allegedly discussed an initial 100,000-dollar purchase of weapons and is accused of creating an operational plan for an armed insurgency to overthrow the Laos government.

100 000?

And in the US?

Hmm, how stupid are these guys?

Even though we know US is a major weapons producer/exporter, there are other cheaper sources.

Key words as prices, local law enforcement (infiltration), and logistics should play a big part of any (dodgy) operation.

Seems very amateurish.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
While it's true that Lao Hmong continue to be persecuted in Laos. it has nothing to do with America or the war. They are persecuted because of their birth rate in comparison to the Lao people and many refuse to "come in" to become Village people" and become "Lao" as the Lao PDR would wish. The operations of would be insurgency groups are separate from this, as their aim is to seek economic influence in Lao through gaining their own autonomous state....

Probably the biggest reason that the Hmong have suffered from Chinese, Vietnamese, Burmese, Thai and Lao governments is in bold in the above poster's excellent summary.

Somehow, the Hmong have been able to resist assimilation into their host cultures for centuries. As you can imagine, it earns the ire and distrust of the host culture--thus bringing oppression down upon their heads. Even in the USA, the great "melting pot," the Hmong have been one of the slowest immigrant groups to "melt." The conflict between Mid-west farmers and hunters who've come up against Hmong traditional practices has literally involved life-and-death struggles. One has to admire their ability to hold on to their culture, despite the fact that it is the source of most of their woes in all of their host countries.

Edited by toptuan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Oh my god.

When do these people realize that the war is over? I cannot stand those insurgencies - nobody gains, and it makes life or normal people intolerable. Expect a new round of persecution of Hmong in Laos. :o

Sure. We should have said the same in 1940 : "the war is over. So why bother ?"

It's not an insurgency. It's simply "resistance" against a gvt of killers, mafioso style with a touch of stalinism, who continue to hunt down Hmong people, even now.

However, I agree with you, the war is over, indeed. The US have had already betrayed and abandoned Hmong and freedom fighthers (useless tools, and rather embarassing, after the pull back from Vietnam in 70's).

So, it's just another betrayal.

There will be probably other.

It's a shame.

There is nothing romantic about the Hmong insurgency. In lack of strength and proper leadership they lay bombs in populated markets and ambush civilian transport, and engage in protection rackets. I had once the opportunity to watch promotion videos of their activities trying to get funding from some very shady organisations - it was horrific.

I can only emphasize with lannarebirth's posts here - the closer you get to these sort of insurgencies, the uglier it gets. And one comes away with the sad impression that these groups are no better than the governments they are fighting against.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thought this might be of interest, as they were arranging to ship the arms through Bangkok and onto the Lao Border.

An Ex Hmong General and CIA operative has been busted in the USA for a fairly involved plot to overthrow the Lao Government.

He's been arrested along with many others and charged with violating the federal neutrality act. :o

http://www.sacbee.com/101/story/206120.html

JYJ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They should take him to a holding cell in Cuba and hold him as an international terrorist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OVERTHROW PLOT

Laos lauds US move to stop coup

Welcomes prosecution of Gen Vang Pao, eight others allegedly planning to oust Vientiane's communist rulers

Laos yesterday welcomed US action against high-profile dissident Hmong lea-der Vang Pao and eight other Hmong who have been arrested on charges of plotting to overthrow the communist government in Vientiane.

"We praise the US government as this group committed wrongdoing against the Lao government, which has good relations with the US," Laos' Foreign Ministry spokesman Yong Chanthalangsy told The Nation yesterday.

Yong was in Bangkok on a one-day visit to meet with senior military officers at the Supreme Command to discuss the arrest of the exiled Hmong leader, as well as border security issues.

Vang Pao, 77, a former general in the Royal Lao Army, helped the US Central Intelli-gence Agency in the "secret war" against the communist Pathet Lao before the fall of Vientiane in 1975. He was resettled in the US later in 1975 after fleeing to Thailand.

Vang Pao and eight others were charged in a US federal court yesterday.

Also charged was former California National Guardsman Lt Col Harrison Ulrich Jack, a 1968 West Point military academy graduate who was involved in covert operations during the Vietnam War. Jack acted as an arms broker and organiser in the plot, according to a criminal complaint filed in the US District Court.

"We're looking at conspiracy to murder thousands and thousands of people at one time," Assistant US Attorney Bob Twiss said in federal court on Monday. He said thousands of co-conspirators remained at large.

The criminal complaint said Vang Pao and the other Hmong defendants formed a committee "to evaluate the feasibility of conducting a military expedition or enterprise to engage in the overthrow of the existing government of Laos by violent means including murder, assaults on both military and civilian officials of Laos and destruction of buildings and property".

As recently as May, people acting on behalf of the committee were gathering intelligence about military installations and government buildings in the Lao capital of Vientiane, accor-ding to prosecutors.

Since January, the Hmong leaders and Jack had inspected shipments of military equipment that were to be purchased and shipped to Thailand on June 12 and 19, the complaint alleged.

During a news conference after the defendants' court appearance, prosecutors displayed photographs of the equipment and weapons in-volved in the alleged plot. They showed a light anti-tank rocket system, a Stinger missile, Claymore mines and an AK-47 assault rifle.

The defendants also attempted to recruit a mercenary force that included former members of the US Special Forces.

US magistrate Judge Kim-berly J Mueller ordered all nine defendants to be held in custody until separate hearings later this week.

Thai Foreign Ministry spokesman Tharit Charungvat said the Thai government "acknowledged" the charges against Vang Pao and his associates and added that Thai security agencies would investigate whether any arms smuggling via Thailand to Laos was planned.

"Thailand has a clear policy not to allow any party to use our territory as a launching pad against our neighbours," Tharit said.

Thailand currently shelters about 7,800 Hmong, some of whom claim they are descendants or close associates of the CIA's "secret" fighters in the Lao theatre of the Vietnam conflict, or those who fled from Laos after the war. Many Hmong in Thailand say they also hope to resettle in third countries.

About 3,000 destitute Hmong - a handful of whom may be lightly armed - are said to be on the run in the mountainous jungles of northern Laos amid an ongoing assault by government soldiers. The Lao government dismisses reports about the group.

Yong, a spokesman for the Hmong in Thailand, said his people were the "victims of trafficking syndicates". There were no active dissident groups in Laos, he said.

"The arrest of Vang Pao and his group might not have a direct impact on Laos, as we have nothing to do with them, but it is good news for the Hmong because traffickers will no longer have an excuse to lure [them] to Thailand to seek resettlement in the US with Vang Pao," Yong said.

The two countries [Thailand and Laos] shared a "common agreement" to deport the Hmong in Thailand to Laos, Yong said.

Vang Pao went to the United States in 1975 and has been credited by thousands of Hmong refugees with helping them build new lives in the US.

In April a dispute erupted in Madison, Wisconsin over a proposal to name a new elementary school after him. The move was intended to recognise the area's large Hmong population but dissenters said a school should not bear the name of a figure with such a violent history.

In 2002 the city of Madison dropped a plan to name a park in Vang Pao's honour after a University of Wisconsin-Madison professor cited numerous published sources alleging that Vang Pao had ordered executions of his own followers, of enemy prisoners of war and of his political enemies. A spokesman for Vang Pao and his followers denied the charges at the time.

Source: The Nation - 06 June 2007

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so 9 people were going to stage a coup? sounds a bit difficult. it was probably a bunch of friend sitting around getting drunk and talking out of their asses. the intrusive US government with their 'homeland security' was probably sitting under the table listening to the drunken rants and thought 'holy smokes batman... their is going to be a coup'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
" the federal Neutrality Act"

Pick me up off the floor!!!!!!! The US have one!!!!!!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perhaps this should be in the Thailand News Clippings forum. I can't post there. Should it more properly belong in some other forum, I trust that it will be moved there...

http://www.sacbee.com/102/story/205438.html (and more articles at www.sacbee.com - Sacramento, CA)

Ten charged with plotting to overthrow Laos government

By Denny Walsh and Ryan Lillis - Bee Staff Writers

Last Updated 3:48 pm PDT Monday, June 4, 2007

Ten men -- including a prominent Hmong general who commanded the CIA's army fighting communists during the Vietnam War -- were charged in federal court in Sacramento on Monday with plotting to overthrow the government of Laos.

The men, including Harrison Ulrich Jack, a 1968 graduate of West Point who now lives in Woodland and operates a consulting firm, allegedly conspired to to obtain hundreds of AK-47s, Stinger missiles, anti-tank missiles, mines, rockets and C-4 explosive, as well as smoke grenades, to overthrow the Laotian government.

The charges stem from a six-month investigation, dubbed "Operation Tarnished Eagle," that included a series of meetings with undercover federal agents during which the plotters allegedly discussed moving weapons into safe houses in Thailand and Laos.

The defendants include Vang Pao, who is considered among the most respected Hmong leaders in the United States and who has vowed for more than 20 years to lead his followers back to Laos.

Pao, who splits his time between homes in Minnesota and the Fresno area, is accused with the eight others of violating the United States' neutrality act by plotting on American soil to invade a foreign country.

Jack, a former American infantry officer who retired in 1977 as a lieutenant colonel in the California National Guard, allegedly approached defense contractors seeking munitions for the plot, according to a criminal complaint unsealed a short time ago, and some of the suspects sought out former Army Special Forces and Navy Seal veterans to serve as mercenaries.

Jack allegedly took part in the plot at the same time he was being appointed as Yolo County's ombudsman, a $90-an-hour post designed to help county employees who are having problems with their supervisors. That appointment was announced March 22 and noted that Jack had recently "established the Hmong Emergency Relief Organization (HERO), a nonprofit organization committed to support of the Hmong community here and abroad."

The complaint charges that since January the suspects have inspected a wide variety of weapons, including AK-47s, Stinger missiles and Claymore mines. The group allegedly purchased "an initial installment of 125 AK-47 machine guns, 20,000 rounds of ammunition, and crates of smoke grenades for a purchase price of $100,000, to be delivered in Bangkok, Thailand, on June 12, 2007," the complaint says.

A $50,000 payment was to be made June 11, with the balance to be handed over the next day, when the weapons were to be received, the complaint says. A third payment of $50,000 was to cover the purchase of some Stinger missiles, the government contends.

Jack allegedly met and spoke with an undercover federal agent several times to discuss weapons procurement, and had budgeted $9.8 million for the desired munitions, the complaint alleges. The money was to come from "contributions from community leaders through the clan leadership," the complaint says.

Various discussions of the plot allegedly took place at Sacramento-area bars and restaurants, Doubletree and Hilton hotels in Sacramento and the parking lot of a K-Mart near Highway 99 in Stockton, the complaint says.

In May, the complaint says, the suspects had "intelligence operatives" in place in Vientiane, Laos, "conducting surveillance of military and government facilities in downtown Vientiane."

The suspects also "issued an operations plan to a contractor to conduct a military strike in downtown Vientiane," the complaint says, "against specifically identified military and civilian government personnel and buildings."

The suspects told their mercenary force "to reduce (the targets) to rubble, and make them look like the results of the attack upon the World Trace Center in New York on Sept. 11, 2001," the complaint says.

McGregor Scott, the U.S. attorney for the Eastern District based in Sacramento, is scheduled to discuss the case at a 3 p.m. press conference today with Michael J. Sullivan, the acting director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, and Drew Parenti, special agent in charge of Sacramento's FBI office.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Perhaps this should be in the Thailand News Clippings forum. I can't post there. Should it more properly belong in some other forum, I trust that it will be moved there...

Good idea.

/Moved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Next they will be asking tony Po to lead it - oops he is dead.

The young bucks here won't know who Tony ("Tony Po") Poshepny was -- a CIA wild man who "helped" with the H'mong "resistance" in Laos during the Vietnam War period.

You'd have to be a wild man to live with the H'mong. Do a google search if you're interested. Fascinating character.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Next they will be asking tony Po to lead it - oops he is dead.

The young bucks here won't know who Tony ("Tony Po") Poshepny was -- a CIA wild man who "helped" with the H'mong "resistance" in Laos during the Vietnam War period.

You'd have to be a wild man to live with the H'mong. Do a google search if you're interested. Fascinating character.

Fascinating definitely, but in a somewhat horrid way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Then there was another CIA character -- "Bull" somebody I think -- who moved with Vang Pao to Montana right after the war. As I recall "Bull" (I can't remember if that's his correct nickname or not) was from Montana where Vang Pao first settled in the U.S. because of him.

His nickname could have been "Daug" or "Dog".

At any rate he died mysteriously in Bangkok about 10 years ago in his hotel room. People wondered what he was up to back in SE Asia

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...