Do You Need A Bachelor's Level Degree To Teach In Thailand?

[youwant2nome]

I might be asking this question in the wrong forum but I will get it a shot. Which Embassy is the easiest to get a Non-Immigrant B visa?

[Loaded]

tell me the country and I'll pm you. best not to make it too public as we don't want a clamp down on friendly consulates.

[Scott]

Basically there are 3 hurdles to overcome:

1. The visa to stay in Thailand. If you have Non-immigrant O or any other visa which allows to stay in the Kingdom, a lot of schools will hire you, with/without degree, TEFL etc. In my experience it's not the schools that all concerned about qualifications. They are interested in having teachers, preferably white faces. If they circumvent the normal regulations they will do so. Also, the chances of getting caught are reasonably slim.

2. Then there is getting the MOE to issue the letter for the non-immigrant B visa. Whatever paperwork is submitted, if they issue the letter that you can take to a embassy/consulate, chances are you'll get the non-immigrant B visa. Conversely, if you can get some other company, entity to put you on the "payroll", you can probably teach.

3. The next step is MOL, which will need the original documents to issue the Work Permit.

For us, the "brick wall", if you like, is the MOE, which just won't approve anyone without a degree, as well as the other documents: Police Clearance, Verification of Degree (or letter requesting the verification) etc. In the next couple of months, I will let you know how cooperative the MOL is because we will have a new group of teachers getting WP under the "new" regulations. Since the MOE has been pretty strict, I am guessing that the Labor Ministry will be no problem.

Like most countries, there are going to regional variations and interpretation of the rules. Unlike a lot of countries, there is a patronage system in place, and I am sure that there are some people that no one is going to say "no" to.

[varun]

To keep it really simple,

you don't NEED a Bachelor degree to teach in Thailand.

The thing is, it makes a big difference between having a WP

and staying inland for upto a year at a time rather than doing the monthly VOA.

This inconvenience will no doubt, get to you at some point of time.

School-wise, some maybe strict and ask for qualifications whereas some will hire you regardless.

Depends on your luck.

Whatever you do, stay away from the bullshit life experience degrees and/or worse, fake degrees.

Having no degree at all is way better than having a fake one.

Lying and forging definitely don't go down well w/ the immigration here.

You'll face possible fine / deportation or even imprisonment.

[WapiJohn]

To keep it really simple,

you don't NEED a Bachelor degree to teach in Thailand.

The thing is, it makes a big difference between having a WP

and staying inland for upto a year at a time rather than doing the monthly VOA.

This inconvenience will no doubt, get to you at some point of time.

School-wise, some maybe strict and ask for qualifications whereas some will hire you regardless.

Depends on your luck.

Whatever you do, stay away from the bullshit life experience degrees and/or worse, fake degrees.

Having no degree at all is way better than having a fake one.

Lying and forging definitely don't go down well w/ the immigration here.

You'll face possible fine / deportation or even imprisonment.

My school has just hired 2 native speakers neither of them has a degree and one does not even have a TEFL etc.

Both now have their B visas and work permits.

So NO you do not have to have a degree to teach in a government school in Thailand, but you do need a good Thai to challenge the system and do all the paperwork for you.

If you are completely honest with the school regarding your qualifications ( or lack of them ), they will go out of their way to help you.

Edited June 23, 2007 by WapiJohn

[DragonQuest]

agreed.

[Loaded]

ahmen!

and so here endeth the degree/no degree discourse...maybe

[Ijustwannateach]

I'm amazed it went so well- or maybe not; we've become quite a mature bunch here in the Teacher's Room... I love you guys...

[stevemiddie]

... I love you guys... :D

Steady now....

[mopenyang]

I'm amazed it went so well- or maybe not; we've become quite a mature bunch here in the Teacher's Room... I love you guys... :D

I agree.

It is refreshing to find a board where you can actually have a discussion of this sort that is not permitted to turn into a battle royal complete with name-calling, insults and such.

[PeaceBlondie]

I'm amazed it went so well- or maybe not; we've become quite a mature bunch here in the Teacher's Room... I love you guys... :D

I agree.

It is refreshing to find a board where you can actually have a discussion of this sort that is not permitted to turn into a battle royal complete with name-calling, insults and such.

Thanks, mopenyang. That's what we're trying to have. This teacher's forum will never have a million hits a day, but other than my sarcasm, folks don't get away with much.

[happymanme]

I know quite a few teachers in Chiang Mai without degrees working legally. pm me if you want more details of where and how. All have obtained work permits legally.

Without a work permit I have only heard of 1 teacher in the last 10 years who had a problem because they weren't legal. This was also recently discussed on ajarn and other senior long-term teachers agreed - 1 in the last 10 years in the whole of Thailand (and that was in Pattaya!!!) Not bad considering there must be thousands working here without work permits.

People telling you that you'll be arrested, hanged and quartered create unsubstantiated rumours on the internet that do no benefit anyone here.

A few teachers were arrested earlier in the year for use FAKE documents to obtain work permits. Never do this and it's completely unnnecessary.

hi loaded can you let me know about legal work permits with out degrees please thanks thanks

Edited June 26, 2007 by happymanme

[DragonQuest]

does anyone love me?^^

[Loaded]

I know quite a few teachers in Chiang Mai without degrees working legally. pm me if you want more details of where and how. All have obtained work permits legally.

Without a work permit I have only heard of 1 teacher in the last 10 years who had a problem because they weren't legal. This was also recently discussed on ajarn and other senior long-term teachers agreed - 1 in the last 10 years in the whole of Thailand (and that was in Pattaya!!!) Not bad considering there must be thousands working here without work permits.

People telling you that you'll be arrested, hanged and quartered create unsubstantiated rumours on the internet that do no benefit anyone here.

A few teachers were arrested earlier in the year for use FAKE documents to obtain work permits. Never do this and it's completely unnnecessary.

hi loaded can you let me know about legal work permits with out degrees please thanks thanks

Government Schools and Universities (Rajabahts, Rajmangklas), especially in the provinces, don't seem to have a problem obtaining wps for degree-less teachers. However, this is conditional upon whether they want to hire you or not.

Anywhere in Issan seems capable of obtaining a wp for just about anyone.

The loophole used by many private schools (employed as an instructor not teacher) seems to be closed/closing, but I know of a new one that some schools are starting to use: set up a foundation and employ them as volunteers.

It's also a lot easier for language schools to obtain as they are classified diffferently to schools within the formal education system. Saying that few will bother obtaining a wp for you as their teachers seem very happy working on non-imm or tourist visas and paid cash.

Edited June 26, 2007 by Loaded

[Shoho]

I am from Trenton, New Jersey, and a PhD candidate from Yale.

What if you have the qualifications like I do, would there be an appropriate job for me outside of English teaching, my areas are Political Science / International Relations.

[Scott]

SoHo: Your qualifications would make you an ideal candidate for teaching at a University. If you can't do that then either a bilingual or international school. They have subject teachers where you teach a subject that your qualified in. For example, at my school, you would probably be teaching upper level social studies.

You might want to make sure that you don't get a job teaching English conversation unless you really want to do that sort of work. There are a lot of people with training in it and they can often run circles around more highly educated people who can't quite get their heads around teaching finer grammatical points. I, for one, can often get completely lost while trying to explain grammar. I usually have to ask one of our other teachers, who usually explains it quickly and succinctly--even though I am much better "educated" that they are!

[maximus86]

yeah, let me know. PM me

[Antimony]

To all of you saying that a BA is not a must for a teaching job --- obviously that only applies to white people right? or native-English speakers at least? I did a lot of research before coming here and lost all hope. Please tell me I made the right decision not to seek a teaching job!!!

Been here for 3 months, staying for another 3 months, then going back to university to continue my studies.

[garro]

This place really amazes me sometimes. I have met hundreds of teachers in Thailand over the years and not one would advise teaching here without a degree - yet you come on here and it is a completely different story. I personally feel that you are taking a big risk coming to Thailand to teach without a degree. Plenty of people seem willing to encourage you to do it but they won't be there when your struggling in an illegal dead-end job with no way out.

Edited October 17, 2008 by garro

[aussiestyle1983]

To all of you saying that a BA is not a must for a teaching job --- obviously that only applies to white people right? or native-English speakers at least? I did a lot of research before coming here and lost all hope. Please tell me I made the right decision not to seek a teaching job!!!

Been here for 3 months, staying for another 3 months, then going back to university to continue my studies.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a lot of Asians actually have whiter skin than farangs! I assume you are referring to Western, native English speaking people as 'White People'.

[Antimony]

Um... white = caucasians.

We dont call fair skinned Asians "white".

[aussiestyle1983]

Um... white = caucasians.

We dont call fair skinned Asians "white".

We dont call them black either

Notice the 'asian' in 'caucasian'. Does anyone know the origin of this word and how it came into being?

I was once called a 'white boy' to my face by a South Korean smart ass at an old job. I just laughed in his face and held up a white sheet of paper and said 'which one of us has a skin tone similar to this white sheet of paper?'. He did not reply, from that day on, whenever he called me white boy, I called him the 'paper boy'. He eventually got sacked for discrimination for calling the wrong person 'white boy'. He tried to get me sacked for discrimination as well, but the boss just laughed with me and said something along the lines of 'you know, as well as I, that calling someone 'paper boy' is not discrimination'.

[garro]

Um... white = caucasians.

We dont call fair skinned Asians "white".

We dont call them black either

Notice the 'asian' in 'caucasian'. Does anyone know the origin of this word and how it came into being?

Apparently caucasian comes from the word 'Caucasus' which is a mountain near the black sea. So Caucasians are people who came from the European side of the Caucasus mountain - so nothing really to do with Asian.

Edited October 17, 2008 by garro

[PeaceBlondie]

I may be breaking garro's general rule, of advising non-native speakers. But I have known this eastern European immigrant for a year, and he is stuck in Thailand, with the ability to teach English for maybe 200 baht an hour, part time. He is taking a course with one of our sponsors (which I did not advise specifically). He has the right visa, and can probably earn back his fees in several months. Oh, he has no degree. But it might work for him, here. Never say never.

[Scott]

Skin color is a problem. It took time to get our director to recognize the passport as the key to whether or not a person could be considered a native speaker.

Regardless of where they are from, where I work they need a degree to get the clearance from the MOE for the WP.

I think it will take sometime before we know how thinks will all shake down. It may be that the rules will be ignored, or maybe not. I think for people who are well set, it's OK to come and find a job without a degree, if they can. People who are pulling up stakes and moving here TO WORK, without a degree just might find themselves up a creek without a paddle. I know a few people in that situation and it remains to be seen what will happen to them. Currently they don't have the money for a ticket back home.

The current economic crisis may make it much easier for the recruitment of degreed teachers as well. There are going to be plenty of unemployed, underemployed folks who might decide that SE Asia is better than the problems they face at home.

[Antimony]

aussiestyle: I think "white boy" is cute. But it definitely depends on how it's said.

Good for you for stickin up to your guns.

garro: Geez dude, relax. I didnt come here for the sole purposes of teaching. If I cant get a teaching job, it's ok. It's fine. More time for shopping & spa treatments!

PeaceBlondie: I've met some non-native English speakers who teach here. One's Mexican, the other is Arab.

Their English, not so great. If I was from Moldova, I'd have better chances of getting hired.

Edited October 17, 2008 by Antimony

[Scott]

Your right about different nationalities. Where I work, if you aren't Asian, then you are sort of considered to be a native speaker. The MOE, however, is a little sharper than some parents, they do require people who come from countries where English isn't the first language to pass an English Language Proficiency Exam.

[Antimony]

Your right about different nationalities. Where I work, if you aren't Asian, then you are sort of considered to be a native speaker. The MOE, however, is a little sharper than some parents, they do require people who come from countries where English isn't the first language to pass an English Language Proficiency Exam.

Exactly! Thank you.

[aussiestyle1983]

I agree. Most of the Thai employers look at the country of birth rather than the nationality. I had a good Aussie mate, who held 4 PHd degrees and was born in KL, but had lived in Australia for over 40 years, well, he got treated like shit because he looked as Chinese as you can despite actually being Australian.

[Loaded]

In Chiang Mai VareeChiangmai School employ a black American teacher, Prince Royal's College employ British/American black teachers and Dara Academy employ a black American teacher. All this 'white middle-class caucasian people telling black people Thais are racist' <deleted> really annoys me. Thais think white skin is beautiful (that's not racist) and they know a black teacher from America is American. Sure an Issan farmer may not know there's no difference but educated Thai parents who send their kids to the schools we teach at do. If they are looking down on a black teacher, they are probably looking down on every farang.