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bruceboy

Worried Parent

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A teacher at my daughters rural school has been caught with fake qualifications. He has been given two weeks to leave the country. However I am worried that other teachers at the school are working illegally and have not been though any of the checks now demanded by the Thai government. What can a concerned step father do to ensure no more criminal teachers find work at my daughters school? I have met with the Kru Yai to discuss this issue beofre but she seemed not to understand the laws and regulations that apply to foreign teachers.

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A teacher at my daughters rural school has been caught with fake qualifications. He has been given two weeks to leave the country. However I am worried that other teachers at the school are working illegally and have not been though any of the checks now demanded by the Thai government. What can a concerned step father do to ensure no more criminal teachers find work at my daughters school? I have met with the Kru Yai to discuss this issue beofre but she seemed not to understand the laws and regulations that apply to foreign teachers.

So, these "criminals" where teaching your daughter, you didn't know and everything was ok!!

Now the same people seem to have no qualifications and suddenly you're worried?

The Thai governments' requirement is a university degree, at least a BA of any kind.........of any kind. A bachelor in German is teaching your kid maybe English!!!!

Main point is: is your step daughter happy and is she learning something? If yes, stop worrying!!

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A teacher at my daughters rural school has been caught with fake qualifications. He has been given two weeks to leave the country. However I am worried that other teachers at the school are working illegally and have not been though any of the checks now demanded by the Thai government. What can a concerned step father do to ensure no more criminal teachers find work at my daughters school? I have met with the Kru Yai to discuss this issue beofre but she seemed not to understand the laws and regulations that apply to foreign teachers.

I understand you're worried about your daughter taught by unqualified and inexperienced teachers. However, I do not understand why you're worried whether they're employed at the school legally or illegally. It's the school's business not yours, I am afraid. But the big question that begs asking is, is your daughter gaining something out of the lesson? if your answer is yes, then, who cares...... TIT you know. And... background checks? hellooooooooooooo This Is Thailand.

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Let's be clear about our terms here. "Faking" qualifications- presenting yourself as having a degree of some type in support of a teacher's license in Thailand- constitutes a form of fraud and is penalised severely. It is still possible, however, to work legally as a teacher without even having a B.A. under certain circumstances if the schools accept you (for example, as a TEFL teacher).

OP, recently when teachers were caught with fake qualifications, they were punished quite heavily- thrown in jail, in fact. However, this punishment was applied inconsistently and it seems that other teachers from the same school guilty of the same crime were allowed to pay a fine (and, I believe, deported).

In theory, the schools themselves should have some liability- in fact, they are technically responsible for verifying that qualifications are real- and should also be heavily punished for *their* crimes. I think it would be entirely appropriate if someone in your school's staff were forced to resign to take responsibility, or if the school were fined heavily. However, this is Thailand, and that just isn't what schools are forced to do, so good luck with that.

Furthermore, being at a rural school, you should ask yourself (or maybe you should ask your school) just how much they are paying these foreign teachers. If you expect someone with a college degree to accept working in the countryside for 20K (as some of these jobs advertise) for very long, then I've got a bridge to sell you. It's a teacher's market out there right now, and you may need to convince your school they have to raise wages- either that, accept the present situation, or take your child out of the school (assuming there are any better options around). You could always do what many better-off rural Thai do and send your daughter to a boarding school in Bangkok or abroad.

"Steven"

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All concerned parents, guardians, etc., have concerns about who teaches their children. Fake credentials present a special problem, with 'teachers' pretending to be someone they are not. That does not prove, though, that he was a bad teacher, or a pervert, or a serial killer, etc.

Thailand probably doesn't have a law that's enforced, requiring teachers to have degrees, or criminal checks, etc. Thousands of teachers never get work permits especially when the schools refuse to get off their bum and help them get work permits! (personal pet peeve showing up there)

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A big thank you to Ijustwannateach and peaceblondie for getting my point. Of course I would prefer if the teachers at my daughter’s school all had degrees but realize with the pay and conditions in Thailand teachers face in Thailand this is not always realistic. What I strongly object to is people lying and committing fraud by submitting forged papers to the Thai government. This alone makes someone a criminal, idle44mins, but what really worries me is that if someone is committing fraud what other crimes have they committed in the past? No parent would want a someone with a history of violence or worse teaching their children. :o

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I rather think it's a long way from fraud to violence, especially if the school is complicit with the fraud and the fraud is accomplished to earn the charlatan the princely sum of 20-25K baht a month (when he must still do the actual work).

It's a continuing concern for everyone about the potential criminal backgrounds of BOTH Thai and foreign teachers in Thailand; you can read up on the confusion about what is being done regarding foreign teacher police checks in the two or three threads in the first one or two pages of threads in the teacher's room. But things are tightening in that regard.

Really, your only options are to trust the school or not, and if not to take your child out. Even the best bureaucracies have things falling through the cracks, and believe it or not- most of the murderers, pedophiles, and other crazies in Thailand are---- wait for it----- Thais.

"Steven"

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There's not much you can do, or should, rather. If the teaching is sufficient why bother? Don't got on a crusade or anything. It won't help anyone's lives in your situation, I believe.

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A teacher at my daughters rural school has been caught with fake qualifications. He has been given two weeks to leave the country.

Some people take the view to leave alone. I disagree with them. I think you are quite right to have concerns.

A person that is prepared to commit a crime by using FAKE documents could easily be prepared to commit what other crimes? Who knows?

Point is he/she lied. Set out on a deliberate course to mislead the Thai authorities. He / she is lucky they are only deporting them.

Cases of this kind bring mistrust on all foreign teachers. Good riddance i say.

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A teacher at my daughters rural school has been caught with fake qualifications. He has been given two weeks to leave the country. However I am worried that other teachers at the school are working illegally and have not been though any of the checks now demanded by the Thai government. What can a concerned step father do to ensure no more criminal teachers find work at my daughters school? I have met with the Kru Yai to discuss this issue beofre but she seemed not to understand the laws and regulations that apply to foreign teachers.

Before I begin my reply I will say that I dont really believe the OP. It sounds a bit far fetched to me. Possible, but unlikely to have happened. Anyhow, that said a rural teacher probabaly didnt need to have a degree to work at the school especially if it was a govenment school. The fact that he submitted a fake degree doesnt mean he was a criminal before hand. How do you know the school didnt encourage him to do this? Of course that doesnt mean his actions were right, as he knows the law im sure, but they may have asked him to submit it. And finally if you are REALLY worried about your daughters education, as you say you are, then you wouldnt have her educated in a Thai school, would you now? I'm sure there are far worse things going on at the school than a native speaker using a fake degree. Get real and open your eyes. Most of the Thai teachers at her school will have degrees that are worth as much as his fake one. As for the Thai teachers that are teaching your daughter English well i'm sure they are pretty useless too. Again his fake would be worth more than theirs. The questions you should be asking are, was he doing a good job? Were the students happy? etc etc. The need for a degree to teach in rural Thailand is complete doodoo. Infact, why anybody would need a degree to teach conversation is beyond me. Just a reasonable amount of common sense and a Tefl would suffice but thats be done to death. Most westerners wishing to teach have atleast that. As for the Thai teachers and common sense well thats another story of course! Concerned parent? Your concerns seem to be mis directed IMHO. But good luck with your daughters education. You probably doing a better job than the school.

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A teacher at my daughters rural school has been caught with fake qualifications. He has been given two weeks to leave the country. However I am worried that other teachers at the school are working illegally and have not been though any of the checks now demanded by the Thai government. What can a concerned step father do to ensure no more criminal teachers find work at my daughters school? I have met with the Kru Yai to discuss this issue beofre but she seemed not to understand the laws and regulations that apply to foreign teachers.

Before I begin my reply I will say that I dont really believe the OP. It sounds a bit far fetched to me. Possible, but unlikely to have happened. Anyhow, that said a rural teacher probabaly didnt need to have a degree to work at the school especially if it was a govenment school. The fact that he submitted a fake degree doesnt mean he was a criminal before hand. How do you know the school didnt encourage him to do this? Of course that doesnt mean his actions were right, as he knows the law im sure, but they may have asked him to submit it. And finally if you are REALLY worried about your daughters education, as you say you are, then you wouldnt have her educated in a Thai school, would you now? I'm sure there are far worse things going on at the school than a native speaker using a fake degree. Get real and open your eyes. Most of the Thai teachers at her school will have degrees that are worth as much as his fake one. As for the Thai teachers that are teaching your daughter English well i'm sure they are pretty useless too. Again his fake would be worth more than theirs. The questions you should be asking are, was he doing a good job? Were the students happy? etc etc. The need for a degree to teach in rural Thailand is complete doodoo. Infact, why anybody would need a degree to teach conversation is beyond me. Just a reasonable amount of common sense and a Tefl would suffice but thats be done to death. Most westerners wishing to teach have atleast that. As for the Thai teachers and common sense well thats another story of course! Concerned parent? Your concerns seem to be mis directed IMHO. But good luck with your daughters education. You probably doing a better job than the school.

Very good post.

Here are a few questions for the OP:

Was the teacher REALLY caught with fake qualifications or were the Thais involved exagerating?

How many other foriegn teachers at that school have fake qualifications (including the ones you might no know about)?

How many Thai teachers at that school have fake qualifications (you will never know)?

Is this teacher a good teacher who just does not have a degree, or is he a reall scum bag?

Would you rather have your kid being taught English by a farang with fake qualifications or a Thai with fake qualifications?

Would you rather have your kid being taught English by a farang with fake qualifications or by a hopeless Thai teacher with real qualifications?

You either need to take your kid out of this school and put your hand into your back pocket and pay high school fees for your kid to be taught by qualified teachers in an Intl school or just mind your own business and accept the fact that there is a shortage or english teachers and that you are the one who enrolled you kid in a school that can't afford to hire real, qualified teachers. Keep in mind it could have been the school that told this teacher to use fake qualifications and the school is just blaming the teacher now because that is how it works in Thailand. So do you want your kid to go to a school with no ethical standards as well?

Edited by aussiestyle1983

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I wouldn't worry too much about a teacher being caught with a fake degree here in Thailand. This type of "fraud" is not uncommon. Most of these teachers aren't serious criminals and your daughter's safety probably isn't in jeopardy.

I am not making light of fake creditials, but people need to understand that it is extremely easy to get a fake degree. Nothing sinister or difficult about it (or so I am told). No big amounts of money change hands etc. So we can't really put it into the same context as we do in Western countries.

Chances are other teachers at the school are now "on notice" about the situation and will either make a hasty exit or cover their backsides somehow. I would be curious as to how he got he got caught.

The other thing I don't understand is how some people think the schools are all "complicit" in the fake qualifications. The regulation on verification of degrees is relatively new. Prior to that time, I know the school I work at didn't routinely check degrees unless they had a reason too--such as the person just didn't appear to have the qualifications they presented; they received a MA within 2 months of getting a BA etc., Otherwise the general belief was that the person was honest. Occasionally, the MOE would request that we check because they saw a diploma from the same school that was designed quite differently.

I don't like the idea of investigating teachers. I am not a law enforcement official and I don't have the same resources they have. And I certainly don't have the legal expertise (or time) to take it to it's next level--court, jail, deportation etc.

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A big thank you to Ijustwannateach and peaceblondie for getting my point. Of course I would prefer if the teachers at my daughter’s school all had degrees but realize with the pay and conditions in Thailand teachers face in Thailand this is not always realistic. What I strongly object to is people lying and committing fraud by submitting forged papers to the Thai government. This alone makes someone a criminal, idle44mins, but what really worries me is that if someone is committing fraud what other crimes have they committed in the past? No parent would want a someone with a history of violence or worse teaching their children. :o

You're worried about the farang teacher? I teach my daughters English myself, a lot better than any well qualified teacher could do.

Do it yourself.

Also, I have a criminal past and done my time - should I be banished forever? Don't you believe in rehabilitation?

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There's certainly a wide array of offenses of various kinds in various countries. Technically speaking, in certain U.S. states, it's still an imprisonable offense to have consensual oral sex, even with your wife or husband. One would hope that the Thai government will take a common-sense attitude towards the police checks and target them more towards crimes of violence and crimes against children. It seems likely, though, that they will never tell us what the goalposts are and leave themselves free to hedge their bets.

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