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bruceboy

Worried Parent

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Astonishing to read the replies above either accepting the fake degree position with a 'mai pen rai, TIT' attitude, or even going so far as to say 'if the classes were ok, then theres nothing wrong.' Unbelievable.

If you dicovered that your financial advisor/Doctor was working with false credentials would the reaction and reasoning be the same?

Children, and my daughter in particular (obviously!) are our future, like the cliche says. As they spend more time in school than with their parents, then we are entrusting the better part of their education to those teachers. We are basically entrusting their future lives to those same teachers to some degree. I know that i will only entrust the education of my daughter to truly qualified and gifted teachers. Indeed, she goes to a cheaper school here in Bangkok because after grilling the teachers, and observing classes from the exterior of the classroom i found the standard of teaching to be much greater than the very beautiful (facility wise) and better equipped school that is 100m from our home.

Bottom line here is that our kids are special, and i want only special (read qualified in educational practices, enthusiastic, honest and caring) people to be around me daughter. Im sure other parents feel the same.

So, for those guys posting above (maybe the fake qualification topic hit a nerve??) i think that might outline the OP's feelings somewhat for you.

For other parents concerned, i suggest you do the same as i and subtly grill your kids teachers. They are freely available whenever you need to meet them, and getting into personal conversation after/while discussing your kids latest homework can reveal much.

Thanks for the support. I, by chance, bumped into one of the young teachers at the school. He was polite and obviously reasonably educated; he mentioned in passing his time at university. I mentioned the fate of his former colleague and he said one of the other teachers was an obvious fraudster; 58 and a retired lorry driver . In the UK only around 5% of his (and my) generation went to university so to claim to have attained a degree and pursued career as a bloody trucker is obsurd! I intend to persue this matter. All the Dads out there will understand where I am coming from.

Rember that if this guy is the criminal you're making him out to be you could be attacked in a form or revenge or even killed! You don't relly know this guy or even the full story (you never will know the full story being a farang yourself) so your plan might backfire. Rather than being a sticky beak, I'd just re-locate your kid to a different school. The school could have told him to get false certificates and you would and will never know this (unless you believe in Santa Calause and think a Thai would tell you.) I for one would rather have my kid educated by one teacher with fake credentials than in a dodgy school where most likely many of the kids teachers would end up being fakes. You are in Thailand, not your home country, so you have to realise the differences and understand that this is a common thing. If every parent did what you are doing there would not be half of the English teachers in Thailand today cause most of the degreed teachers are teaching in other countries, leaving the sexpats, people with Thai family and the few who love Thaialnd to teach in Thailand. Anyway, I hope your plan backfires and please let us know if it does (If you're still alive to do so :o ).

Edited by aussiestyle1983

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Thanks for the support. I, by chance, bumped into one of the young teachers at the school. He was polite and obviously reasonably educated; he mentioned in passing his time at university. I mentioned the fate of his former colleague and he said one of the other teachers was an obvious fraudster; 58 and a retired lorry driver . In the UK only around 5% of his (and my) generation went to university so to claim to have attained a degree and pursued career as a bloody trucker is obsurd! I intend to persue this matter. All the Dads out there will understand where I am coming from.

What you do is your choice i guess. I would be a little bit hesitant about pursuing something on the say so of one individual. He may have an axe to grind and is just " pressing your buttons"

What makes it so obvious he is a fraudster? I,m inclined to state that i know some long-distance truck drivers made some great money. Horses for courses. You do what you are happiest doing. The fact he drove a truck for a living does not make him a fraudster. IMHO

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I'm a former janitor's helper, fast food cooker, dishwasher-waiter (at age 49!), etc. I also have a BA, a TEFL cert, and have had professional qualifications in two other fields. You do not know who this guy is, and unless you've seen him teach, and know how to judge his teaching, you don't know what kind of a teacher he is. bruceboy, I'm a father of six, and don't know where you're coming from, unless your mind is filthier than mine is.

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I'm a former janitor's helper, fast food cooker, dishwasher-waiter (at age 49!), etc. I also have a BA, a TEFL cert, and have had professional qualifications in two other fields. You do not know who this guy is, and unless you've seen him teach, and know how to judge his teaching, you don't know what kind of a teacher he is. bruceboy, I'm a father of six, and don't know where you're coming from, unless your mind is filthier than mine is.

I am not on a crusade against any one individual. I just wish to know if my step daughter is being taught by someone who is commiting fraud against the Royal Thai Government. If a person is lying to the school and their colleagues and commiting fraud they have no place in education.

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I'm a former janitor's helper, fast food cooker, dishwasher-waiter (at age 49!), etc. I also have a BA, a TEFL cert, and have had professional qualifications in two other fields. You do not know who this guy is, and unless you've seen him teach, and know how to judge his teaching, you don't know what kind of a teacher he is. bruceboy, I'm a father of six, and don't know where you're coming from, unless your mind is filthier than mine is.

I am not on a crusade against any one individual. I just wish to know if my step daughter is being taught by someone who is commiting fraud against the Royal Thai Government. If a person is lying to the school and their colleagues and commiting fraud they have no place in education.

Thats has to be the joke of the day! Well done!

The Royal (corrupt) Thai Governemnt commits fraud against itself. This is thaivisa.com and after reading that, I no longer think you are living in Thailand, or you wouldn't have made such a stupid comment. As Thais would say "This is Thailand" and as Farangs would say "When in Rome." You obviously haven't learn much during your time here, I think you had better go back to school yourself :o

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I'm a former janitor's helper, fast food cooker, dishwasher-waiter (at age 49!), etc. I also have a BA, a TEFL cert, and have had professional qualifications in two other fields. You do not know who this guy is, and unless you've seen him teach, and know how to judge his teaching, you don't know what kind of a teacher he is. bruceboy, I'm a father of six, and don't know where you're coming from, unless your mind is filthier than mine is.

I am not on a crusade against any one individual. I just wish to know if my step daughter is being taught by someone who is commiting fraud against the Royal Thai Government. If a person is lying to the school and their colleagues and commiting fraud they have no place in education.

You had better gather a small army together because if that's your goal, you had better check the thai teachers as well!

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bruceboy, if this man is indeed lying about his credentials, everybody in the teaching field in Thailand - well, maybe 95% of the farang TEFLers, anyway - agree it's a terribly immoral thing to do. However, the THAI government school may have asked him to lie about his qualifications! I worked in a province once with a guy who pretended to have some sort of British paper, but he never presented it. He taught successfully, although not brilliantly.

All governments lie - yours, mine, theirs, every government lies, cheats, steals, kills. Don't worry about it.

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Good point PB. I was asked to submit a false doccument by my school, I just told them no. I said I dont have a degree and I wouldn't work on false qualifications. They ended up getting me a WP anyway without a degree. I proably should have found a better school, but I realised that I will proably be asked to do the same thing at most schools that would be prepared to accept me anyway. I am glad I worked at that school but if I never tried just because the school asked me to do a bad thing, I most likely would have never ended up working in LOS.

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aussiestyle, I hope we're not being too harsh on bruceboy here; he is trying to do what he understands is best, as a concerned parent. I'm not condoning any lawbreaking; it's immoral to lie about having credentials you don't have for an important job like teaching.

Sorry for the way we said it, bruceboy. You have legitimate concerns.

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Astonishing to read the replies above either accepting the fake degree position with a \'mai pen rai, TIT\' attitude, or even going so far as to say \'if the classes were ok, then theres nothing wrong.\' Unbelievable.

If you dicovered that your financial advisor/Doctor was working with false credentials would the reaction and reasoning be the same?

Children, and my daughter in particular (obviously!) are our future, like the cliche says. As they spend more time in school than with their parents, then we are entrusting the better part of their education to those teachers. We are basically entrusting their future lives to those same teachers to some degree. I know that i will only entrust the education of my daughter to truly qualified and gifted teachers. Indeed, she goes to a cheaper school here in Bangkok because after grilling the teachers, and observing classes from the exterior of the classroom i found the standard of teaching to be much greater than the very beautiful (facility wise) and better equipped school that is 100m from our home.

Bottom line here is that our kids are special, and i want only special (read qualified in educational practices, enthusiastic, honest and caring) people to be around me daughter. Im sure other parents feel the same.

So, for those guys posting above (maybe the fake qualification topic hit a nerve??) i think that might outline the OP\'s feelings somewhat for you.

For other parents concerned, i suggest you do the same as i and subtly grill your kids teachers. They are freely available whenever you need to meet them, and getting into personal conversation after/while discussing your kids latest homework can reveal much.

I dont condone anyone for using a fake degree and if they are caught then they deserve to have the book thrown at them because they are breaking the law. But you are in a dreamworld if you think your daughter is getting a quality education at her Thai school from quality educated Thai teachers, especially the Thai English teachers. You actually have to be working at a school to really appreciate what goes on and much of it is quite laughable, corrupt, uncaring with little enthusiasm unless money is to be made. This IS Thailand and this IS the way it is for most students at school. A caring teacher using a fake to stay in the country is better than a abuser with a real degree. The one teacher i knew using a fake only did so to be legal and I think many teachers were forced down that route and not because they were criminals. To me If you really care you would educate your daughter outside of Thailand but you choose to stay for what ever reasons you do and like so many other parents you are trying to do the best for your daughter in an extemely flawed education system. Take a reality check!

MOST schools being the keywords here. Not ALL Thai schools are the same. Indeed, some Thai schools are superior. This is the same in every country. In my home country, i wouldn't send my kids to school in any of our local schools. They suck. however, those concerned parents dont say, "oh well, this is Bradford so its normal." They look for alternatives, even though that may mean driving a few miles to a better rated school.

Nobody is saying anything about abusers here. Its a simple fact that as a parent, we want our kids to at least get a decent education from qualified individuals in a safe environment. Again, this is not Thailand specific. Its the same the world over. Those who say, 'TIT" have their heads buried in the sand. Degreed teachers are not coming to Thailand to work because of low salary and conditions? Thats fair enough. If there weren't so many clowns around who aren't qualified, willing to take up those underpaid jobs then it wouldn't be happening so much would it? Blaming the Thai government doesn't really cut the mustard either. Otherwise, we might as well all live by the 'when in Rome' theory.

You say if i really cared i would not educate my kids in Thailand. Well, in that respect, you are very correct. That's why my eldest is being educated in Singapore. Actually her choice once she reached Secondary school age. I would have been happy for her to attend one of a few select schools here. My youngest will have that choice too, but only when she is wise enough to make that decision herself. I have a feeling she will choose Thailand as she was born here.

I look for the best for my kids, whatever it is, and i'm afraid your comments don't instill much confidence as to the quality of education provided.

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To be perfectly honest, (and i'm really gonna get flamed here i think) some of the replies here have been, as i've said before, astonishing, especially from so called educators.

I don't know how to quote multiple times, so will just bullet point.

1) Somebody said that if you pursue a teacher you may end up dead. Isn't that the same in any country? What a ridiculous comment. You think Larry the lorry driver is connected enough to get Somchai the hit man on board for a farang hit? It seems that you dont have much understanding of Thailand yourself.

2) Aussie 1983. The Royal Thai Government is the body to whom you pay your taxes (hopefully). again, do you really want to live by the mottow 'When in Rome' or do you have your own set of standards and morals that you wish to live by? Your obviously a young guy, judging by your handle, (Im not much older myself!) but i do NOT, ever accept, when it comes to my kids welfare that This is Thailand. I accept it in every other facet of my life. I embrace it as its refreshing still for me after being here for the last 5 years. However, TIT is Thailand doesn'twash for my kids. You also say that this is common. It may be common, but that does not mean that it is the norm, or the required standard.

I do look forward to following this thread as there are good things being posted! And for those who comment that we stay here because we love Thailand, that isn't necessarily true. We stay here because both my wife and i have business interests in Asia (sounds very grand but really isn't!) and we are contracted to base here.

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To be perfectly honest, (and i'm really gonna get flamed here i think) some of the replies here have been, as i've said before, astonishing, especially from so called educators.

I don't know how to quote multiple times, so will just bullet point.

1) Somebody said that if you pursue a teacher you may end up dead. Isn't that the same in any country? What a ridiculous comment. You think Larry the lorry driver is connected enough to get Somchai the hit man on board for a farang hit? It seems that you dont have much understanding of Thailand yourself.

2) Aussie 1983. The Royal Thai Government is the body to whom you pay your taxes (hopefully). again, do you really want to live by the mottow 'When in Rome' or do you have your own set of standards and morals that you wish to live by? Your obviously a young guy, judging by your handle, (Im not much older myself!) but i do NOT, ever accept, when it comes to my kids welfare that This is Thailand. I accept it in every other facet of my life. I embrace it as its refreshing still for me after being here for the last 5 years. However, TIT is Thailand doesn'twash for my kids. You also say that this is common. It may be common, but that does not mean that it is the norm, or the required standard.

I do look forward to following this thread as there are good things being posted! And for those who comment that we stay here because we love Thailand, that isn't necessarily true. We stay here because both my wife and i have business interests in Asia (sounds very grand but really isn't!) and we are contracted to base here.

To respond to your comments;

1) You missed the point. Of course someone can come after you in ANY country. I never said they couldn't. I just said they were more likely to do it here in Thailand, especially since it's MORE COMMON and CHEAPER to do in Thailand. How many times do we hear of all the tiny problems that have resulted in murders here in LOS, compared to the west or in other countries. If it were the same situation in a western country I wouldn't have even come to that conclusion, because it is highly unlikely, but here in Thailand it is quite easy to conclude that revenge or even a murder could happen as a result of this because it happens more often.

2) You get what you pay for. There's no point in people complaining about their kids being educated by liers (allthough it is wrong, moraly incorrect, and whatever you want to say) that have used fake qualifications to get the job if the parents are cheap charlies (either by force or choice) and put their kids in a crappy school. If you want a better quality education for your kids, put your hand in your back pocket or zip your lips and just accept the fact that your kid is getting the level of education that you could afford to pay for them. Getting rid of one dodgy teacher wont improve the school, especially if the school is now aware the teacher is dodgy and still lets him work there.

If this teacher loses his job, most likely he deserves to. On the other hand, another dodgy school will pick him up and the school that got rid of him will hire another dodgy teacher. It will cause less problems for everyone, yourself included if your just re-loacte you kid and spend a bit more money on it's education.

Edited by aussiestyle1983

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To be perfectly honest, (and i'm really gonna get flamed here i think) some of the replies here have been, as i've said before, astonishing, especially from so called educators.

I don't know how to quote multiple times, so will just bullet point.

1) Somebody said that if you pursue a teacher you may end up dead. Isn't that the same in any country? What a ridiculous comment. You think Larry the lorry driver is connected enough to get Somchai the hit man on board for a farang hit? It seems that you dont have much understanding of Thailand yourself.

2) Aussie 1983. The Royal Thai Government is the body to whom you pay your taxes (hopefully). again, do you really want to live by the mottow 'When in Rome' or do you have your own set of standards and morals that you wish to live by? Your obviously a young guy, judging by your handle, (Im not much older myself!) but i do NOT, ever accept, when it comes to my kids welfare that This is Thailand. I accept it in every other facet of my life. I embrace it as its refreshing still for me after being here for the last 5 years. However, TIT is Thailand doesn'twash for my kids. You also say that this is common. It may be common, but that does not mean that it is the norm, or the required standard.

I do look forward to following this thread as there are good things being posted! And for those who comment that we stay here because we love Thailand, that isn't necessarily true. We stay here because both my wife and i have business interests in Asia (sounds very grand but really isn't!) and we are contracted to base here.

To respond to your comments;

1) You missed the point. Of course someone can come after you in ANY country. I never said they couldn't. I just said they were more likely to do it here in Thailand, especially since it's MORE COMMON and CHEAPER to do in Thailand. How many times do we hear of all the tiny problems that have resulted in murders here in LOS, compared to the west or in other countries. If it were the same situation in a western country I wouldn't have even come to that conclusion, because it is highly unlikely, but here in Thailand it is quite easy to conclude that revenge or even a murder could happen as a result of this because it happens more often.

2) You get what you pay for. There's no point in people complaining about their kids being educated by liers (allthough it is wrong, moraly incorrect, and whatever you want to say) that have used fake qualifications to get the job if the parents are cheap charlies (either by force or choice) and put their kids in a crappy school. If you want a better quality education for your kids, put your hand in your back pocket or zip your lips and just accept the fact that your kid is getting the level of education that you could afford to pay for them.

If this teacher loses his job, most likely he deserves to. On the other hand, another dodgy school will pick him up and the school that got rid of him will hire another dodgy teacher. It will cause less problems for everyone, yourself included if you just re-loacte you kid and spend a bit more money on it's education.

Are you an educator Aussie? The Australian education system is supposedly the best in the world right now. Particularly the state of Victoria.

Cheap Charlie? Good Thai schools actually cost similar to International schools. You obviously didn't read my post very well.

This thread is about a teacher being unqualified, and you are either condoning that as TIT, or dismissing it. Thats plain wrong. May i ask if you are a parent as well as a teacher by the way?

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To be perfectly honest, (and i'm really gonna get flamed here i think) some of the replies here have been, as i've said before, astonishing, especially from so called educators.

I don't know how to quote multiple times, so will just bullet point.

1) Somebody said that if you pursue a teacher you may end up dead. Isn't that the same in any country? What a ridiculous comment. You think Larry the lorry driver is connected enough to get Somchai the hit man on board for a farang hit? It seems that you dont have much understanding of Thailand yourself.

2) Aussie 1983. The Royal Thai Government is the body to whom you pay your taxes (hopefully). again, do you really want to live by the mottow 'When in Rome' or do you have your own set of standards and morals that you wish to live by? Your obviously a young guy, judging by your handle, (Im not much older myself!) but i do NOT, ever accept, when it comes to my kids welfare that This is Thailand. I accept it in every other facet of my life. I embrace it as its refreshing still for me after being here for the last 5 years. However, TIT is Thailand doesn'twash for my kids. You also say that this is common. It may be common, but that does not mean that it is the norm, or the required standard.

I do look forward to following this thread as there are good things being posted! And for those who comment that we stay here because we love Thailand, that isn't necessarily true. We stay here because both my wife and i have business interests in Asia (sounds very grand but really isn't!) and we are contracted to base here.

To respond to your comments;

1) You missed the point. Of course someone can come after you in ANY country. I never said they couldn't. I just said they were more likely to do it here in Thailand, especially since it's MORE COMMON and CHEAPER to do in Thailand. How many times do we hear of all the tiny problems that have resulted in murders here in LOS, compared to the west or in other countries. If it were the same situation in a western country I wouldn't have even come to that conclusion, because it is highly unlikely, but here in Thailand it is quite easy to conclude that revenge or even a murder could happen as a result of this because it happens more often.

2) You get what you pay for. There's no point in people complaining about their kids being educated by liers (allthough it is wrong, moraly incorrect, and whatever you want to say) that have used fake qualifications to get the job if the parents are cheap charlies (either by force or choice) and put their kids in a crappy school. If you want a better quality education for your kids, put your hand in your back pocket or zip your lips and just accept the fact that your kid is getting the level of education that you could afford to pay for them.

If this teacher loses his job, most likely he deserves to. On the other hand, another dodgy school will pick him up and the school that got rid of him will hire another dodgy teacher. It will cause less problems for everyone, yourself included if you just re-loacte you kid and spend a bit more money on it's education.

Are you an educator Aussie? The Australian education system is supposedly the best in the world right now. Particularly the state of Victoria.

Cheap Charlie? Good Thai schools actually cost similar to International schools. You obviously didn't read my post very well.

This thread is about a teacher being unqualified, and you are either condoning that as TIT, or dismissing it. Thats plain wrong. May i ask if you are a parent as well as a teacher by the way?

I was an English teacher in Thailand, but I quit my job last month after 2 years of teaching at the same school to return home to earn a degree. I would never be a teacher in Australia so you don't have to worry about my arrogant attitude destroying the reputation of the Australian education system, which I believe is not a good as you make out to be.

To answer your other question, no I am not a parent and I never intend to be one. I have realised that the world is not a nice place to raise a family anymore and with terrorism and other trends, I would not like to bring kids into this crappy world. To me, rasing a family is a "novilty of the past."

I understand where you're comming from and allthough I'm not a parent and will hopefully never be one, I do understand you point. However, if I was a parent, I would never educate my child in Thaialnd. I accept the TIT attitude and accept what happens in Thailand, so if I don't like it, I would move on. I don't think it's my right to make problems for others that have done something that many others do, regardless of how morally incorrect it is.

Edited by aussiestyle1983

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When all's said and done, you can't expect your child to get any kind of decent education at a rural school in Thailand. Anyone who cares that much about this will put their child's needs ahead of their own and allow the child the chance to become equipped for life beyond the neighbour's rice fields. That means giving up the relaxed village lifestyle, and accepting that although you may like it, everyone else under the age of 30 wants a way out, and that will, in time, be your child, too. Or would you rather leave them in the same boat, without the luxury of having the choice you did?

Village life is great for children up to a certain age, but however cliched it is, the best thing you can give your child is a good education.

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