Jingthing Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Oy vey. I need this kind of fun like a hole in my head! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badbanker Posted October 14, 2007 Author Share Posted October 14, 2007 I want to clarify some things here for all as there seems to be a bit of misunderstanding. First thing: Yes you are right, you may be lucky when you front up and ask for your clearance to leave the country! You have still broken the law, and this doesn't go down well with some of the Immigration Police as they feel it is a slap in the face for immigration law and want to detain you further just for the heck of it! Second thing: The immigration police actually get a clearance from the airline before they take you to the airport to deport you! An officer escorts in a very nice manner and takes you to check in. The check in counter staff ask about your reason for deportation and if it is just and overstay they will say yes. Most of the countries that fit the 30 day visa exemption group can fly to Hong Kong and stay overnight and then return to Thailand without any problem. No you are not blackbanned and if you have not exceeded the 180 rule I imagine you will be let back in. My advice is for you is to get a visa in an embassy and then return. Third thing: Things must have changed as the majority of people of African decent staying in the IDC leave through several airport connections. I know the man that does the arranging for then. Biggest problem for them is to get the money to pay for the passport and ticket to return home. I know several that have flown home to Ghana through Egypt and South Africa! Fourth thing: As I said in my original post. The IDC is not all that bad and substantially better that any Thai jail. They have a system that allows a person to be visited every day and food of almost any sort may be brought in and after inspection given directly to the prisoner. Cash money can be held by the prisoner and with discretion a cellphone can also be kept in your cell. Fifth thing: No the Thai government doesn't give loans to anyone to finance your return home. There are several refugee agencies that do have money and after 6 months in the IDC, if it can be verified that you are who you say you are they will foot the ticket and have you on a plane to get home. Most embassies will also arrange to contact your family or in a worst case loan you the money and give you a one way passport with one page in it to allow your return to your country of birth. There are a number of people in the IDC that have been there for 6 + years! They don't want to leave and do not have any desire to return to their home country. Most of them are wanted in their home country on serious charges and have not admitted to a name. Several of them are mentally ill and a couple have feigned mental illness. One of them is trying to get Thai nationality after 10 years of detention. Frankly I think his chances are extremly small and he may just die there. The IDC staff for all of their problems do a good job with the resources they are given! They are always extremely kind and very very cooperative for almost anything I ask for. Yet it is a far from perfect environment for someone to enjoy his vacation in Thailand. "I need this kind of fun like a hole in my head!" You are right Jingthing! If you come here get a visa and make sure you stay legal or I may see you there! Badbanker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulmercke Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Some of the people I've known previously to get themselves into a massive overstay problem often with no passport: - have had chronic alcohol or drug problems - or have simply run out of money with no-one left to help them - either here or in their home country - and have been unable to support themselves because of their addiction or lack of employment skills - education - inclination - desire - whatever - - or have simply burnt themselves out because of BKK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llothar Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 If i'm ready to pay 20K Baht and i'm on my way to the airport i would always be worried to stay in a hotel or even Kaosan buesthouse in Bangkok. In the past just one hotel was not checking my passport and my visa because they were just to busy. Will they report guests to the thai police or will they just refuse your check-in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestro Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 ...never seen anyone in court for an overstay, be fined over 3,000 baht... There was one case, reported here, where the court sentenced an overstayer to a fine of 15,000 Baht but from your report I now understand that the court-ordered fine is usually only 3,000 Baht. -- Maestro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badbanker Posted October 14, 2007 Author Share Posted October 14, 2007 (edited) ...never seen anyone in court for an overstay, be fined over 3,000 baht... There was one case, reported here, where the court sentenced an overstayer to a fine of 15,000 Baht but from your report I now understand that the court-ordered fine is usually only 3,000 Baht. -- Maestro Maestro I respect your input to this board immensly but I have been in Bangna Court house 3 times this year. On each occassion I was also the court translator! My 3 friends were given a 3,000 baht fine and this was discounted by 200 baht for each day in police detention. I went to pay this fine and I can get you a copy of this document if you wish. I think it also depends on which court you go to for your deportation order! Thonburi is not a court commonly used for deportation hearings but Bangna for some strange reason is. It always takes literally 2 mins to finish the case. We go in the Judge asks the guy if his name is Mr. Smith. I translate this and Mr. Smith says it is. They then ask Mr. Smith if he realises he has overstayed his visa. After translation and he says yes, the judge says you are in breach of immigration law and because of this, I fine you 3,000 baht minus 200 baht per day for each day you have been in Police Detention. Case closed! I then go upstairs to the clerk and pay the money and get a receipt and then come down and give it to the police officer who then takes my man back to the police car to be sent back to the lockup and then to the IDC. BB Edited October 14, 2007 by Badbanker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer5050 Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 I always try to stay legal as I stay usally 30 to 60 days right now as i still need to take care of bussi ness intrrest in the US. But when I am in LOS i usally dont carry me Pastport on me just a copy in my pocket. I know you are supposed to carry it on you. But how important is this . I dont carry it usally because I dont want to lose it . My ? is will the police take the copy if they check this , I a have never been checked and I have been coming back anf forth for 8 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 As long as you have a copy or other Thai photo ID you will normally be OK. There were a few pub busts under a former Interior Minister where police demanded to see passports before releasing foreigners but have not heard of any such actions since that time. That said I usually carry passport myself as my drivers photo is about 37 years old and although I might think it looks like me; suspect others might not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badbanker Posted October 14, 2007 Author Share Posted October 14, 2007 (edited) In 20 years of being here I have never once been asked for an ID! I am wondering if the sudden spate of overstay interest is, because there are a growing number of people that are tired of trying to stay here legally and wonder if the other option is all that bad! There are some that would say it isn't, but I wouldn't trade my comforts and freedom, for the IDC for anything. Actually the Sarawat at the IDC would probably say to me "go and get yourself out of Dodge" if I ever did overstay and got caught! The crack down on visa runners and genuine people wanting to stay long term in Thailand is already having a serious effect on many of my friends. Eventually this is going to translate into new visa regulations or a lack of revenue for many! This is the worst exodus I have seen in 20 years! BB Edited October 14, 2007 by Badbanker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guderian Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Hi badbanker, and anyone else reading this. This information is interesting, and although it doesn't directly affect me, I have a question. This is a purely theoretical question, I'm totally 100% within the rules and intend to stay that way. But as you know in the LoS, many other things may cause problems… The question is as follows: what happens if you are arrested for overstay (or anything else for that matter) with regard to necessary medication whilst languishing in the cells? I have a complicated chronic medical condition that requires me to take a specialised medicine every 12 hours which is, (i) not available in Thailand, and (ii) is very expensive. That medicine causes side effects which have to be counteracted by other medicines, one of which again cannot be obtained here (as with the first medicine mentioned, I have checked availability at the Bangkok Hospital), and is also extortionately priced. Can you take your own medications into the monkey house with you? If not, what do they do, as I really cannot imagine Thai police, whether of the immigration ilk or any other sort, happily paying my medicine bills? I can hardly afford them myself! I just wanted to ask this out of curiosity. From your regular visits to the IDC you must occasionally come across someone with something like my medical situation. Thanks for any insights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Sanford Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Thai police paying medicine bills? nope that aint going to happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Thailand can be very brutal that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer5050 Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Thanks am I right in my understanding a copy of my US passsport and a US drivers license would most likley be ok if I get checked . And like I said I know you are supposed to keep it with You. But i dont want it(passport ) to get loast or pickpocketed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badbanker Posted October 14, 2007 Author Share Posted October 14, 2007 Hi badbanker, and anyone else reading this. This information is interesting, and although it doesn't directly affect me, I have a question. This is a purely theoretical question, I'm totally 100% within the rules and intend to stay that way. But as you know in the LoS, many other things may cause problems… The question is as follows: what happens if you are arrested for overstay (or anything else for that matter) with regard to necessary medication whilst languishing in the cells? I have a complicated chronic medical condition that requires me to take a specialised medicine every 12 hours which is, (i) not available in Thailand, and (ii) is very expensive. That medicine causes side effects which have to be counteracted by other medicines, one of which again cannot be obtained here (as with the first medicine mentioned, I have checked availability at the Bangkok Hospital), and is also extortionately priced. Can you take your own medications into the monkey house with you? If not, what do they do, as I really cannot imagine Thai police, whether of the immigration ilk or any other sort, happily paying my medicine bills? I can hardly afford them myself! I just wanted to ask this out of curiosity. From your regular visits to the IDC you must occasionally come across someone with something like my medical situation. Thanks for any insights. There is a full clinic with a nurse and doctor in attendance at the IDC. Sadly this facility would not be able to cope with your medical requirements. Every morning at 9am there is a nurse that goes round every cell to check on the condition of each detainee. If you require medication you can ask to see the doctor at 10am. As in any institution there are people that want to take advantage of the system and so till they know you, it is difficult to get what you need. Yes they will happily allow you to take you medication with you and keep it in a cell. In a case such as this your embassy would need to be EXTREMELY heavily involved to ensure your needs are met. I do know of a number of cases of Patients that are regularly taken out of the IDC to the Police Hospital for further more complex treatment. Embassies can come and go at will to the IDC with little or no restriction before 10am and after 1pm Monday to Friday. The Sarawat once told me he really feals sorry for all the people in the IDC as they are not criminals just overstayers and it is his duty to get them repatriated to their home country. This is the attitude I have sensed on a number of occassions at the IDC! BB PS There are also several hundred North Korean refugees waiting for repatriation at any one time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hgvneil Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 Great topic,very interesting,but i will still try and steer clear of the IDC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PadThaiGuy Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 Thailand can be very brutal that way. Death of Royal in Thai Jail. http://travelwirenews.com/eTN/14AUG2006.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnieB Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 i would hope not as we really don't need lawbreaking foreigners residing here in los. it makes all of us that abide by the laws here look bad. unfortunately, i have heard that like the op states, usually, a visa overstay is not a black-listing offense. unless there was some other hanky panky going on during the overstay (e.g., pedophilia or other criminal activity). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guderian Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 Death of Royal in Thai Jail.http://travelwirenews.com/eTN/14AUG2006.htm PadThaiGuy, Thank you for posting that, but it doesn't make me feel in the least bit comfortable ! I was taking a holiday in the UK last year when this happened, and so missed it. I'm very surprised that it didn't make bigger headlines outside Thailand. But it seems to answer my question. If a Prince with good connections can die from a lack of something cheap and basic like insulin in a Thai prison, then a spell inside here is simply going to be a death sentence for some people like myself. This really makes me wonder if I am doing the right/sensible thing, retiring to Thailand? I don't imagine for one second that prisons in The Philippines or Cambodia would be any better of course, but at least in those countries there is probably a lot more scope for paying the police off and avoiding incarceration in the event of trouble. It's not that I am planning on doing anything criminal, but I have lived in Pattaya for 3 years and I have seen how easy it is to get into trouble through no fault of your own. And that's in a relatively tourist-friendly town. Do you know why he was put into the Bangkok Remand Prison instead of the IDC? Again, thanks for the informative link. There is a full clinic with a nurse and doctor in attendance at the IDC. Sadly this facility would not be able to cope with your medical requirements. Every morning at 9am there is a nurse that goes round every cell to check on the condition of each detainee. If you require medication you can ask to see the doctor at 10am. As in any institution there are people that want to take advantage of the system and so till they know you, it is difficult to get what you need. Yes they will happily allow you to take you medication with you and keep it in a cell. In a case such as this your embassy would need to be EXTREMELY heavily involved to ensure your needs are met. I do know of a number of cases of Patients that are regularly taken out of the IDC to the Police Hospital for further more complex treatment. Embassies can come and go at will to the IDC with little or no restriction before 10am and after 1pm Monday to Friday. The Sarawat once told me he really feals sorry for all the people in the IDC as they are not criminals just overstayers and it is his duty to get them repatriated to their home country. This is the attitude I have sensed on a number of occassions at the IDC! BB PS There are also several hundred North Korean refugees waiting for repatriation at any one time! BB, Thanks for the information. Although it's clearly a place to be avoided, the IDC sounds like it is fairly humane, presumably because simple overstay is not a criminal offence? So the Prince in the story linked to by PadThaiGuy above was perhaps sent to his death in the Bangkok Remand Prison rather than to the IDC because he tried to forge the dates on his entry permit, which I guess IS a criminal offence? If that's correct, then people who may get into an overstay situation should be aware of it, and not be tempted to try and do anything foolish with their entry permit. Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mesohappy314 Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Thailand can be very brutal that way. Death of Royal in Thai Jail. http://travelwirenews.com/eTN/14AUG2006.htm "Concerned that he would again missed his flight, he made the innocent mistake of forging his entry card document. " Hmm... Fair and balanced just like Fox news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midasthailand Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Badbanker, firstly thank you for your OP, very informative and I'm sure quite useful to any TV members that are in the overstay situation. I would like to commend you for your charitable nature, you are clearly a prince among men for helping those less fortunate than yourself. If there were more expats like you in Thailand perhaps the Immigration department wouldn't feel the need to make it harder for us to come to the LOS. Anyway, that's my Zacs worth, good on you mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fauxie Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 So... Oh, it's not that bad. Really, you're treated excellently. But don't go there unless you'd enjoy the company of some big, burly sweaty criminals. Who are treated well and aren't that bad. But still, don't overstay, it's not worth it. Being treated well, that is, which they are. But don't overstay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunderland Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 I heard of a guy that was put into IDC where he was raped and got HIV. You heard wrong. It was a gay in the CID who was into rapping and got hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ifonlyalabama Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 Badbanker thank you for your really useful information. The most disconcerting part to me was that you have seen people arrive at IDC with 20,000 baht and their airplane ticket in their hand. As this is basically what I'm planning to do after now overstaying for 2 months. I've already been to the immigration centre with a letter saying that I was hospital for 1 month of that, but they had no time for it and said to pay the fine at the airport. (Then my overstay was compounded because the next country I am going to took another 3 weeks to give me a visa (usually takes 24 hours)) I understand to keep my head low and be humble and just pay the fine. My question is am I better to do this at the immigration office in bangkok before I go, or at the airport, do you know? Many thanks in advance, I'm really anxious about it all!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strap Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 Try your best to get to the AIRPORT smile and tell them you have a small overstay at the immigration counter , they usually will just bring you over to the office and let you pay the fine and be on your way. The worst thing you could do is go to immigration office as you would still be illegal until you depart from the airport, I don't think they will give you a visa extension now or you would have gotten one already. just keep your head down till you leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badbanker Posted May 5, 2008 Author Share Posted May 5, 2008 (edited) Small overstays are not an issue and can be dealt with at the airport simply! The big issue is here is that with a BIG overstay (more than 60 days) you will need to get a clearance and a exit stamp before you leave the country. Yes this can be done at the airport and yes it can be easy most times. If you go to Suan Plu and take an immigration lawyer or an influential person with you, you are some what in control of the process and can ensure that the process turns out the way you want it to! The Immigration Police can and do run background checks on big overstayers to see if there are any OTHER cases that pertain to you and need to be dealt with before you leave! I suggest you get your exit stamp before you go to the airport. They will only give you an exit stamp until midnight on the same day you want to leave. So if you want to get on a plane up till midnight you could do that. Of course as long as you clear immigration before midnight of the day of the clerance you should also be OK. This is for people that have a 1 or 2 am flight. Good luck! Badbanker Edited May 5, 2008 by Badbanker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ifonlyalabama Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 I'm so grateful for the swift replies. Thank you so much. I was pretty anxious as my visa expired on 5 March!! So I hopped to it and booked flights to leave today, hoping that they would equate 5 March-5 May as being roughly 60 days (and not more). I couldn't go to the immigration office because it's a public holiday. As it turns out I have now checked in and passed through immigration. The immigration desk stamped my departure card and didn't mention going to an overstay office. Did he mistake my 5 Mar for a 5 May?? I still have my departure card and have to go through hand luggage checks etc. At what stage do they take your departure card off you? Have I just been incredibly lucky?? Or if I don't say anything, am I running the risk of REALLY pissing them off if they notice? Or could it be logged against me for future trips to Thailand? Please help - I don't know what to do and time's short!! Thanks and eternal gratitude!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 The airline staff take your departure card when you enter the gate, they are unlikely to notice (or worry about) your overstay. I suppose that if immigration notice on a future entry there could be problems, honestly not something I've thought about. Perhaps a new passport would be a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krub Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 (edited) I don't think it is a problem. Maybe make sure that on a future visit you do not go over the 90 days within 180 The departure card is stamped from today's that is all the airlines staff will check. Pray that your flight is not cancelled and you have to go through immigration again and leave tomorrow Good luck ! Edited May 5, 2008 by Krub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstumbo Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 90 days in 6 months is only when you enter on a visa exempt entry. If you have a visa, you can come in any time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badbanker Posted May 5, 2008 Author Share Posted May 5, 2008 I think ifonlyalabama has another problem! That is the immigration computer system will get you one day and then I think you will have a very high probability of going to the IDC while they sort out and investigate why you where allowed to leave and not pay the 20k to immigration. They can think in many way about what really happened! Of course if you don't plan on coming bank to Thailand then just forget it! BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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