Tv Member Highlights British Embassy Deficiencies.

[the scouser]

A victory for the individual!

Illegitimate Children has a two-year-old daughter born in Thailand who, although not a British citizen through entitlement, had a rock solid claim to registration as such. He duly turned up at the British embassy in Bangkok to apply, only to be shown the door because the consular officer maintained that as his daughter was then over a year old she had missed the boat. In order to substantiate this claim she directed IC to the embassy website which states (though hopefully not for much longer):-

British Fathers, who are not married, can now apply to register children who are born abroad prior 1 July 2006, with the Home Office. It must be noted this is discretionary. All applications must be received within the first 12 months of the child’s birth.

From his own research, IC established that this guidance is not only misleading, but legally incorrect, and, knowing that he was to shortly visit the UK, decided to make the application directly to the Borders and Immigration Agency (BIA) in the UK.

IC was aware that as his daughter was still in Thailand, there was always a risk that the BIA would reject the application as invalid, and sure enough the inevitable telephone call arrived: “Terribly sorry, but you’re going to have to make this application via the embassy in Bangkok.”

IC stood his ground and explained that the embassy had already declined to accept the application, so he could have no faith that it would now be duly processed. He also highlighted the website guidance. Phone calls ensued and the matter wound its way up the BIA’s chain of command, when they relented. As a consequence of the British embassy’s incorrect advice and refusal to accept the original application, IC’s daughter’s registration certificate is to be issued without further ado. Additionally, the BIA’s Nationality Group has undertaken to contact the embassy in order to demand that their website accurately reflects the law (and hopefully train their staff, too).

There is no telling how many people may have previously been dissuaded from seeking registration for their children because of the embassy’s inaccurate advice, but they should bear in mind that for discretionary registration the only requirement is that the applicant be a minor.

Hats go off to the BIA Nationality Group in Liverpool, in particular the caseworker who put IC’s case to her management (she’ll shortly be receiving a glowing letter of commendation) and isn’t it refreshing to find a government department that perceives itself to be there to offer assistance and not to frustrate.

Mind you, what else do you expect from a bunch of Scousers?

Scouse.

[taxexile]

congratulations to IC , and to all those who helped him right the wrong.

as one who has had to fight the fight with national health service bureaucracy until i have been blue in the face , it is always satisfying to see "the little man" stand his corner and come out triumphant.

well done.

the sooner that "public servants" realise that that is exactly what they are , and nothing more , the better it will be for those who need , rely and put their trust in their service.

Edited August 24, 2007 by the scouser

[Mossfinn]

A post in the Families forum

Another poster on this thread was enquiring about time limits.

Well done and Good luck to the little man against beauracracy.

Moss

[Thanyaburi Mac]

A victory for the indivdual!

Illegitimate Children has a two-year-old daughter born in Thailand who, although not a British citizen through entitlement, had a rock solid claim to registration as such. He duly turned up at the British embassy in Bangkok to apply, only to be shown the door because the consular officer maintained that as his daughter was then over a year old she had missed the boat. In order to substantiate this claim she directed CF to the embassy website which states (though hopefully not for much longer):-

British Fathers, who are not married, can now apply to register children who are born abroad prior 1 July 2006, with the Home Office. It must be noted this is discretionary. All applications must be received within the first 12 months of the child's birth.

From his own research, IC established that this guidance is not only misleading, but legally incorrect, and, knowing that he was to shortly visit the UK, decided to make the application directly to the Borders and Immigration Agency (BIA) in the UK.

IC was aware that as his daughter was still in Thailand, there was always a risk that the BIA would reject the application as invalid, and sure enough the inevitable telephone call arrived: "Terribly sorry, but you're going to have to make this application via the embassy in Bangkok."

IC stood his ground and explained that the embassy had already declined to accept the application, so he could have no faith that it would now be duly processed. He also highlighted the website guidance. Phone calls ensued and the matter wound its way up the BIA's chain of command, when they relented. As a consequence of the British embassy's incorrect advice and refusal to accept the original application, IC's daughter's registration certificate is to be issued without further ado. Additionally, the BIA's Nationality Group has undertaken to contact the embassy in order to demand that their website accurately reflects the law (and hopefully train their staff, too).

There is no telling how many people may have previously been dissuaded from seeking registration for their children because of the embassy's inaccurate advice, but they should bear in mind that for discretionary registration the only requirement is that the applicant be a minor.

Hats go off to the BIA Nationality Group in Liverpool, in particular the caseworker who put IC's case to her management (she'll shortly be receiving a glowing letter of commendation) and isn't it refreshing to find a government department that perceives itself to be there to offer assistance and not to frustrate.

Mind you, what else do you expect from a bunch of Scousers?

Scouse.

Would seem to me that this is well worth publishing in the BKK Post, the Nation, Chiang Mai Mail, Pattaya Mail, Pattaya Today, and Phuket Whatever It Is newspapers.  Who knows how many kids have been disadvantaged by the Embassy's incorrect statement.

Mac

A Yank

[IllegitimateChildren]

H'i All BRITS that need help on the subject of getting their iilegitmate child/children registered as a British Citizen.

I can confirm, all written above by The Scouser is 100% correct.

My event with the British Embassy in BKK was fraught with despair as my heart sunk; only due to their total incompetence and the lack of knowledge of the British Law relating to registering children as British Nationals.

I can tell you all now, their website and the info they give is INCORRECT so don't read it and think you have lost before you have began.

If you want to register your children even if they are UNDER 18 years of age the process is there, but they just don't know it.

From the date of my return to the UK (without offspring) it took just under 1 month to get British Citizenship for my daughter.

I can't wait to walk into the British Embassy in BKK with my daughters UK registration certificate to get her BRITISH PASSPORT and show them how wrong they were.

Any of you out there who need help on this matter PM me or "the scouser" and we will tell you who how it was done and who you need to help you.

I would like to thank Davies Khan and "the scouser" for their help in this matter for minimal cost to help me get my daughters British Citizenship under British Law as she is intitled too. (but not according to the staff in the Embassy in BKK)

Note: I have just been informed that the UK Embassy in BKK are being instructed from the UK office to re'word their website and state the truth about child registration. Hopefully they will get it right this time.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A victory for the indivdual!

Illegitimate Children has a two-year-old daughter born in Thailand who, although not a British citizen through entitlement, had a rock solid claim to registration as such. He duly turned up at the British embassy in Bangkok to apply, only to be shown the door because the consular officer maintained that as his daughter was then over a year old she had missed the boat. In order to substantiate this claim she directed IC to the embassy website which states (though hopefully not for much longer):-

British Fathers, who are not married, can now apply to register children who are born abroad prior 1 July 2006, with the Home Office. It must be noted this is discretionary. All applications must be received within the first 12 months of the child's birth.

From his own research, IC established that this guidance is not only misleading, but legally incorrect, and, knowing that he was to shortly visit the UK, decided to make the application directly to the Borders and Immigration Agency (BIA) in the UK.

IC was aware that as his daughter was still in Thailand, there was always a risk that the BIA would reject the application as invalid, and sure enough the inevitable telephone call arrived: "Terribly sorry, but you're going to have to make this application via the embassy in Bangkok."

IC stood his ground and explained that the embassy had already declined to accept the application, so he could have no faith that it would now be duly processed. He also highlighted the website guidance. Phone calls ensued and the matter wound its way up the BIA's chain of command, when they relented. As a consequence of the British embassy's incorrect advice and refusal to accept the original application, IC's daughter's registration certificate is to be issued without further ado. Additionally, the BIA's Nationality Group has undertaken to contact the embassy in order to demand that their website accurately reflects the law (and hopefully train their staff, too).

There is no telling how many people may have previously been dissuaded from seeking registration for their children because of the embassy's inaccurate advice, but they should bear in mind that for discretionary registration the only requirement is that the applicant be a minor.

Hats go off to the BIA Nationality Group in Liverpool, in particular the caseworker who put IC's case to her management (she'll shortly be receiving a glowing letter of commendation) and isn't it refreshing to find a government department that perceives itself to be there to offer assistance and not to frustrate.

Mind you, what else do you expect from a bunch of Scousers?

Scouse.

Edited August 24, 2007 by Wolfie
Removed surplus [size] tags - congrats BTW!

[Jersey_UK]

Well done!

[Freddie212]

I had 2 illegitamate kids and because of the 12 month statement I thought id missed the boat so I thought the only way round it was to marry,which I have and now have the kids passports,and one :wife:

[Jai Dee]

Congratulations IC and well done Scouse.

Hope to catch up with you and your family when you're back in town.

[mrrpie]

I must be the exception then, because my kids were both registered with the Home Office through the Embassy last year - and they were both more than 12 months old. No problem with the Embassy taking the applications and they could not have been more helpful (apart from the wait for the interview)....

[Freddie212]

I must be the exception then, because my kids were both registered with the Home Office through the Embassy last year - and they were both more than 12 months old. No problem with the Embassy taking the applications and they could not have been more helpful (apart from the wait for the interview)....

where you married when you regesterd your children? I had no probs once I was married.

[IllegitimateChildren]

Info, for those who have PMd me, sorry for the delay in replying. I have now just sent the info you need via the messager system here on TV

GOOD LUCK

[gregchambers]

Freddie, if u get married then the rules change, for those not wed but with British father the child has to be under 18 but nothing is guaranteed in the UK where applications are referred. I think this all came out of sex discrimination laws from Euroland - ie British mothers could always get their kids citizenship.

Any Brit with no current UK connections and not married got their illegit offspring UK passports outta Bkk embassy?

Anyone know if the kids get British citizenship can their unmarried mother then follow them on over even without the support of their British father (ie Brit father got them citizenship and they went to stay witb Thai relatives already in the UK, could the Thai mother get other there on basis of kids now being British)

[the scouser]

I see that as a consequence of this case they've now amended the embassy website, removing the stipulation that registration as a British citizen has to be sought within twelve months of the child's birth:-

British Fathers, who are not married, can now apply to register children who are born abroad prior 1 July 2006, with the Home Office. It must be noted this is discretionary. Those applying should expect to receive a decision in approximately 4 months. The fee for this will be £400 payable in Thai Baht plus a Consular forwarding fee of Baht 4,248. Please ask us for form MN1 or obtain it from the Border and Immigration Agency.

Hopefully, the embassy will now accept any application for registration without question, providing that the child is a minor.

Scouse.

[Mossfinn]

I see that as a consequence of this case they've now amended the embassy website, removing the stipulation that registration as a British citizen has to be sought within twelve months of the child's birth:-

British Fathers, who are not married, can now apply to register children who are born abroad prior 1 July 2006, with the Home Office. It must be noted this is discretionary. Those applying should expect to receive a decision in approximately 4 months. The fee for this will be £400 payable in Thai Baht plus a Consular forwarding fee of Baht 4,248. Please ask us for form MN1 or obtain it from the Border and Immigration Agency.

Hopefully, the embassy will now accept any application for registration without question, providing that the child is a minor.

Scouse.

Can't say as I like the discretionary part Scouse, does that mean they can still turn it down on a whim or do they need cast iron reasons, or if in doubt, turn it down hoping a higher court will decide for them?

Moss

Edited August 27, 2007 by Mossfinn

[the scouser]

Where the father is a British citizen otherwise than by descent which, I would suggest, is more often than not the case in relation to applications likely to be submitted through the embassy in Bangkok, the decision is discretionary. However, the Borders and Immigration Agency has a policy statement which says:-

,so although it's discretionary, providing that the criteria are fulfilled, the child will be registered as a British citizen. Indeed, it would be perverse to have a situation whereby those born outside of the UK illegitimately to a British father on or after 1 July 2006 are automatically British, yet those born before this can't even register.

However, to be an absolute pedant, the guidance on the embassy website is still erroneous as there are different sections of the British nationality Act 1981 under which a child can be registered as a British citizen, and some are by entitlement; i.e. there is no element of discretion involved.

Scouse.

[Mossfinn]

Thanks for the clarification Scouse, I just think the term, 'Discretionary', can be interpreted in all manor of obtuse reasoning's.

Moss

[IllegitimateChildren]

Info, for those who have PMd me, Sorry for the delay in replying. I have now just sent the info you need via the messager system here on TV, So please log on and read your message.

[mark51mark]

H'i All BRITS that need help on the subject of getting their iilegitmate child/children registered as a British Citizen.

I can confirm, all written above by The Scouser is 100% correct.

My event with the British Embassy in BKK was fraught with despair as my heart sunk; only due to their total incompetence and the lack of knowledge of the British Law relating to registering children as British Nationals.

I can tell you all now, their website and the info they give is INCORRECT so don't read it and think you have lost before you have began.

If you want to register your children even if they are UNDER 18 years of age the process is there, but they just don't know it.

From the date of my return to the UK (without offspring) it took just under 1 month to get British Citizenship for my daughter.

I can't wait to walk into the British Embassy in BKK with my daughters UK registration certificate to get her BRITISH PASSPORT and show them how wrong they were.

Any of you out there who need help on this matter PM me or "the scouser" and we will tell you who how it was done and who you need to help you.

I would like to thank Davies Khan and "the scouser" for their help in this matter for minimal cost to help me get my daughters British Citizenship under British Law as she is intitled too. (but not according to the staff in the Embassy in BKK)

Note: I have just been informed that the UK Embassy in BKK are being instructed from the UK office to re'word their website and state the truth about child registration. Hopefully they will get it right this time.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A victory for the indivdual!

Illegitimate Children has a two-year-old daughter born in Thailand who, although not a British citizen through entitlement, had a rock solid claim to registration as such. He duly turned up at the British embassy in Bangkok to apply, only to be shown the door because the consular officer maintained that as his daughter was then over a year old she had missed the boat. In order to substantiate this claim she directed IC to the embassy website which states (though hopefully not for much longer):-

British Fathers, who are not married, can now apply to register children who are born abroad prior 1 July 2006, with the Home Office. It must be noted this is discretionary. All applications must be received within the first 12 months of the child's birth.

From his own research, IC established that this guidance is not only misleading, but legally incorrect, and, knowing that he was to shortly visit the UK, decided to make the application directly to the Borders and Immigration Agency (BIA) in the UK.

IC was aware that as his daughter was still in Thailand, there was always a risk that the BIA would reject the application as invalid, and sure enough the inevitable telephone call arrived: "Terribly sorry, but you're going to have to make this application via the embassy in Bangkok."

IC stood his ground and explained that the embassy had already declined to accept the application, so he could have no faith that it would now be duly processed. He also highlighted the website guidance. Phone calls ensued and the matter wound its way up the BIA's chain of command, when they relented. As a consequence of the British embassy's incorrect advice and refusal to accept the original application, IC's daughter's registration certificate is to be issued without further ado. Additionally, the BIA's Nationality Group has undertaken to contact the embassy in order to demand that their website accurately reflects the law (and hopefully train their staff, too).

There is no telling how many people may have previously been dissuaded from seeking registration for their children because of the embassy's inaccurate advice, but they should bear in mind that for discretionary registration the only requirement is that the applicant be a minor.

Hats go off to the BIA Nationality Group in Liverpool, in particular the caseworker who put IC's case to her management (she'll shortly be receiving a glowing letter of commendation) and isn't it refreshing to find a government department that perceives itself to be there to offer assistance and not to frustrate.

Mind you, what else do you expect from a bunch of Scousers?

Scouse.

[mark51mark]

Where the father is a British citizen otherwise than by descent which, I would suggest, is more often than not the case in relation to applications likely to be submitted through the embassy in Bangkok, the decision is discretionary. However, the Borders and Immigration Agency has a policy statement which says:-

,so although it's discretionary, providing that the criteria are fulfilled, the child will be registered as a British citizen. Indeed, it would be perverse to have a situation whereby those born outside of the UK illegitimately to a British father on or after 1 July 2006 are automatically British, yet those born before this can't even register.

However, to be an absolute pedant, the guidance on the embassy website is still erroneous as there are different sections of the British nationality Act 1981 under which a child can be registered as a British citizen, and some are by entitlement; i.e. there is no element of discretion involved.

Scouse.

great work

[seaneee]

The staff at the embassy in Bangkok seem to revel in making peoples lives a misery by their interpretation of the law.

Thank god for people like SCOUSER and downtrodden people who are prepared to take the fight to them.

IC, my best wishes from the bottom of my heart. 1-0 to the downtrodden.

[mark51mark]

well in lad, great work. got a daughter who'll be 1 next week, havnt seen her in the flesh yet,[ came outta work this year],[no dosh], going back to see them in november, were not married, i want my daughter to have dual citenzship, and was worried i'd have to marry the gf. . .[ if you'd seen her photo you'd know why], but i want to try and get the two of them over here [merseyside] asap. and to be honest the more i look into this visa business the more its doing me head in. but first things first, is it easier for me to get her registered here or over there, is it cheaper, here or there. what forms do i have to get and from where. if u can help with any of these, i'd really appreciate it. and thanks anyway for the work youve already done.

[7by7]

As this topic is 3 years old and the offending words have long been removed from the embassy website, I see no point in reviving it.