Why Singapore?

[cdnvic]

By looking at the survey over in the other topic it appears that Singapore expats make up the largest non-Thailand expat group on the forum. What's the attraction to the place? The money? The tight law & order that makes the streets safe for all but chewing gum addicts? Cleanliness, and more modern infrastructure than the rest of the region? Or do you hate it there and can't wait to get out?

[keemapoot]

Jobs at high wages, not at Thailand depressed wages.

[cdnvic]

Jobs at high wages, not at Thailand depressed wages.

How well do they compare with wages in other trading centres such as Hong Kong, New York, London, or Shanghai?

[keemapoot]

Jobs at high wages, not at Thailand depressed wages.

How well do they compare with wages in other trading centres such as Hong Kong, New York, London, or Shanghai?

SG wages are about 20% lower than Hong Kong; 40% lower than NYC or London. Shanghai is variable. I guess Thailand wages would be about 70% lower than New York.

[youngkiwi]

The technology infrastructure is great in Singapore, plus the ease of conducting business with Singaporean companies. I love Singapore for short trips, but couldn't live there full-time.

[cdnvic]

I take it corruption isn't too bad there, what about the civil service, is it efficient or is it a slow bureaucracy like the rest of the region seems to be?

[fennielyn]

SG wages are about 20% lower than Hong Kong; 40% lower than NYC or London. Shanghai is variable. I guess Thailand wages would be about 70% lower than New York.

However, everything being relative, the cost of living in Singapore is about 30%-50% higher than in Thailand. But you're spot on about the salary difference.

One should also consider the intangible perks and benefits. You can never hope to find the quality of Thai food here as you can in Thailand, not even in the priciest Thai restaurants that claim to serve only *authentic* Thai fare; there's just that something that's missing. Not to mention the fact that one would have to fork out at least 700bt for a decent meal. Everyone's always raving about the variety of food to be found here, that much is true but the quality on the otherhand, is somewhat debatable and I ain't no food snob either. Having been brought up all my life on mom's homecooking and whatever can be found in food courts and hawker centers (our equivalent of street food but less tasty and pretty much identical all around) I have no qualms about eating whatever at wherever. Also, the atmosphere here is uhm...to put it delicately, more repressed and lttle emphasis or care is placed on finding fun and seeking enjoyment in whatever you do.

I think everyone is well aware of our infamous fines that are implemented for practically everything from flicking a ciggy butt onto the street, to not flusing the toilet to spitting, to littering (be it accidental or not), to smoking in non-designated areas OUTDOORS (the ban is already effective in all indoor venues including pubs/discos/clubs/bars but alfresco places like Starbucks, Coffee Bean and coffee shops are allocated a grand 20% of seating area for smokers which is a good and bad thing. One can finally smell their food/coffee again but smokers now find themselves stumbling over each other in the bid to score one of the 2 tables graciously allowed them and being shot withering stares if they so much as dare to approach a NON-smoking table; intent is enough to pronounce you guilty in our bloody judgemental eyes) and the list goes on. And then on some more.

Oh and how can anyone NOT have heard about our agressive baby campaigns (because God Forbid that we should let our impending greying population single-handedly bring about the fall of our still-young country) and get married ads? YES, we as a nation have to be urged, encouraged, cajoled and lured with a ripe carrot to hurry up and settle down and pop out a couple of babies. =p

Lest I be accused of being a Singapore-bashing, worshipper of the green-pastures-on-the-other-side, as some are surely wont to do (I can't please everyone, yo), there are things here that are pretty wonderful as well. Yes, really.

Like the fact that my apartment is 100% cockroach-free and anyone who knows me, knows that I can't be in the same room as one without screaming and bawling like a newborn or one about to be flayed alive. Shut up. =p The transportation system is one of the more efficient ones in this part of the world. The heat is not as debilitating. Taxis never try to rip you off ("you want go Sukhumvit? Now traffic jam, no meter, give you good price, 100bt" and that was from silom ) You're surrounded by lush green trees and mostly clean streets that are garbage-free.

The lack of a language barrier also make it so much easier for a newcomer (to Asia) to settle in and feel at home, I suppose. On the flip side, when you're not in a situation that forces you to learn the language in order to be understood or to survive, you tend to NOT want to make the effort coz seriously, why bother right? And even if the fancy does strike you, it's gonna be so much harder to pick it up because you realise, dam.n but almost everyone speaks English to you. Which is why I'm useless when it comes to my 2nd language. No, seriously, friends actually giggle when they hear me *try* to speak in anything other than my native tongue (what?), but hey, it's not like I had/have a chance to use it outside of the classroom alright?

So yea, I take the good with the bad (currently my download speed of an enviable kb/s, I know, <deleted> right?) but if given the choice would I want to get out/away from here to live in Thailand? Heck yea! Coz really, if there's even the vaguest chance, I would be so there.

[edited for the sake of brevity. I know, right?!]

Edited October 4, 2007 by fennielyn

[fennielyn]

I take it corruption isn't too bad there, what about the civil service, is it efficient or is it a slow bureaucracy like the rest of the region seems to be?

I think it would be safe to say that S'pore is one of the least corrupt countires in SEA and the red tape is significantly less than most parts of the region as well. Speed, productivity and efficiency is highly priced here so there shouldn't be too much trouble getting things done in most government bodies BUT beware the queues. We are a queue-loving and qeue-jumping people. You have been warned.

[thaiclan]

After living (and loving) in Thailand for 5 years I moved to Singapore. I hadn't really thought about it much before (doesn't really bother me) but I noticed in Singapore that it was great to see young Asian girls hanging out with other young Asian girls, dressed "normally" and having a good time. I found that rare in Thailand (especially in Pattaya) where most young Thai women are the arm of an overweight/old (often both) farang male and the others are just hanging to be picked up in their mini skirts and mini mouse shoes. I had just taken that view for granted and it was such a pleasant change to see the alternative everywhere I look. We have the "SPG's" (Singapore Party Girls, typically after the Angmoh wallet) and after 1 year here I can spot them, but a newbie from Thailand wouldn't spot them easily.

The wages are great for expats here and the standard of living is sky high. Safety is great, I can party til 5 or 6am in Clarque Quay and never once feel unsafe or insecure, plus there are so many other western young women here, there were very few of us in Thailand!

Downside is the country is too small and sometimes it feels I need to show my passport just to buy a bloody Burger King! Also their education system is over-pressured and assessment driven all delivered via rote-learning so even at senior positions you get not just "-in-the-box" thinking but with the lid firmly shut too! aka Thailand.

Hahah and I wish the Asian guy would drop the "metro sexual" look too. Its not flattering, manly or new anymore!

[Captain Chaos]

Local salaries are surprisingly low at career-entry levels. We have young folks working in my office for just a couple of thousand Sing a month. That's mid-level management salaries in Thailand (call it Bt 45k or so) but still waaaaaay lower than the west. Local people seem to tend to live with their families here for a very long time - certainly until they get married, and sometimes afterward! - I guess due to the cost of housing, which can be high

More senior people earn well - and international salary levels are certainly available here - that's why I moved to Sing from BKK However it ain't no hardship posting so the 'local plus' (cash only) deal is becoming more common and the 'full expat' gig with perks and allowances a little less so, certainly if you are hired when you are already in Asia.

Corruption - not the 'brown paper bag' variety so common in SEA, but there is alleged to be a lot of nepotism towards members of the ruling party and their families - just ask any taxi driver! That said, my observation is that most things here are done for the right reasons and seem to work ...

Education - yes, highly pressurized and again, my observation is that kids here are over-protected and not allowed to grow up getting a few bumps & bruises (and therefore experience) along the way. The result of that plus the government having such a strong say in people's lives here is that Singaporeans are very industrious and efficient - but they are hopelessly unimaginative and not good problem-solvers. This is good news for us - there will always be a need for a sprinkling of good quality expats, particularly amongst western-owned companies.

Final point - so long as you are earning enough and look likely to play by the rules, visas/ work permits are a doddle to get here. We also have several PR's in my office and again, it's hardly the ordeal that obtaining Thai PR can be.

I have no intention to retire here - but it is a good place to make money and still enjoy a (sort of) Asian lifestyle.

CC

Edited October 5, 2007 by Captain Chaos