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eek

Unqualified Teachers

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As a student I dont want to attend a joking jovial class and learn nothing constructive.

But the Thais DO. hahaha Thais favor clowns over REAL teachers. TIT. Go figure...

:o

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As a student I dont want to attend a joking jovial class and learn nothing constructive.

But the Thais DO. hahaha Thais favor clowns over REAL teachers. TIT. Go figure...

:D

Isn't the customer always right? :o

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I was taught Japanese by a Japanese national. I do not know nor do I care what her qualifications were. She could do the job and I managed to learn. The proof is in the pudding.

Do I wish I had a mega qualified westerner teaching me instead ? No.

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It's very unfortunate that Thais value sanook (fun) over pretty much anything else with regards to teachers and schools. Also the status of having a white teacher is a big reason many schools will take on people with no qualifications. I've heard, read and seen countless European "teachers" who aren't fluent in English get teaching jobs just because Thais assume that because you're white, you speak English. Many schools if given the choice would choose a white farang over a qualified Philippine teacher just because of the look. It's sad but true and very depressing for this country. Philippine teachers, who generally speak a much superior level of English than many Thai English teachers, look like Thai people so schools are more willing to take on unqualified farang just for show. Thais are seemingly desperate to learn English but don't have any forethought about how to achieve a certain standard due to their priorities focusing on status, sanook and having a farang rather than actual teaching qualifications.

Garro's suggestion is not so far from what happens in some areas. I did a brief teaching stint for 3 months, I have a degree but no teaching qualifications, was getting 20 000 a month. If I had qualifications they would have paid me 30 000 and they were only paying the Philippine teacher 15 000. I got paid more supposedly because I'm a native speaker. I swear they just make up the rules as they go, at least in the villages! The government really needs to make education a priority to pull itself out of so many problems.

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I was taught Japanese by a Japanese national. I do not know nor do I care what her qualifications were. She could do the job and I managed to learn. The proof is in the pudding.

Do I wish I had a mega qualified westerner teaching me instead ? No.

Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, presumably you are not a child. You are old enough and mature enough to understand the teaching you are receiving. We are talking about educating children here...............presumably.

Your post is somewhat irrelevant.

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It's very unfortunate that Thais value sanook (fun) over pretty much anything else with regards to teachers and schools. ...... Thais are seemingly desperate to learn English but don't have any forethought about how to achieve a certain standard due to their priorities focusing on status, sanook and having a farang rather than actual teaching qualifications.
The standards are set by the MOE and often ignored. I highlighted the word seemingly because it only seems that the Thai education sector is desperate. Not at all as desperate as Japan and Korea, and guess which two countries have been Asian economic tigers for many decades?

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It's very unfortunate that Thais value sanook (fun) over pretty much anything else with regards to teachers and schools. ...... Thais are seemingly desperate to learn English but don't have any forethought about how to achieve a certain standard due to their priorities focusing on status, sanook and having a farang rather than actual teaching qualifications.
The standards are set by the MOE and often ignored. I highlighted the word seemingly because it only seems that the Thai education sector is desperate. Not at all as desperate as Japan and Korea, and guess which two countries have been Asian economic tigers for many decades?

Good point.

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Take a deep breath.

Practice doing this a little bit each day!

:o

signed,

A rock.

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In any case it makes for a good read and you seem to have a talent for writing!

Perhaps a "sleeping dictionary" would help with your language skills?

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He took a tefl course, but failed. He says its because he is somewhat illiterate and has dyslexia.

unfortunately even people who are severely dyslexic are finding jobs on the PGDE course to TEACH primary kids in the uk now. I stand for equal rights but this for me is a step too far. How can someone who is dyslexic teach young kids of 5 and up how to spell, read etc?

This one person I know was at uni last year and got extra time in her exams, for her course work, got a free laptop, got all kinds of taxpayers help and she didnt have a clue. But because of her "disability" she got guaranteed an interview place in teacher training above others, others who maybe had higher marks and abilities.

Is that right? To my mind no.

And to sum it up she got accepted.

I had the "honour" of being one of her spell checkers last year and not only was her spelling atrocious ( ok, it was because of her dyslexsia ) but her whole attitude was one of an 8year old, the reasoning of her essays were worse! She wouldnt stand up to a bunch of 1 year olds misbehaving yet alone 8 year olds. she will burst into tears and waste thousands of pounds of training, all in the eyes of PC.

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Eeek, get a life! You don't like a guy you met, so what? What is wrong with you that you must try to put down others? It sounds like an unatural resentment. Would the truth be that you can't get a job as your not a native speaker?

The best teachers in Thailand( for conversational English) that I met were not the best qualified ones. The ones with PhDs and MAs in Linguistics etc couldn't teach at all. The best ones were ex butchers, car mechanics amongst others. This is my honest experience of working in over 20 language schools, at least 10 Pratom/Mattyayom schools, 4 universities and a few other places.

A common misconception from people arriving in Thailand is that to be a good English teacher you must have a knowledge of grammar. I remember years ago at ECC, the woman said that my grammar test was the worst she'd ever seen. I usually learned grammar the night before I taught it.

Chill out - 'mai dtong serious' :o

Nicely said! I totally agree with you. Live and let live? It’s a shame we can’t all have this attitude! Some of us were not fortunate enough to have come from money? I wish when I was of a younger age my parents could have afforded to send me to university etc… My life would be totally different to what it is now? But I would dread to think that I would have ended up being a snob! Like some people are…

And yes I agree that because you can speak English doesn’t mean you can teach English? But come on… Look at the low paid rates unqualified teachers are actually paid over here? As stated above some of the best teachers are ex butchers, ex builders etc… And some of the best teachers have all of the relevant teaching qualifications… And you have to remember that their rate of pay is much greater than unqualified teachers! To my knowledge that is. To ask if a teacher is a good teacher or not? Ask and talk to the students that they teach! You can’t judge someone because they do not have the relevant qualifications. I myself have had many different jobs over the years and I was not qualified for any of them. But over time I got very experienced and ended up running certain departments, supervising and training other staff. So yes I agree that not every unqualified so called language teacher will be a good teacher, but some of those unqualified language teachers will given time be better teachers than those with qualifications! Because they will gain that experience? It is not just about qualifications, it’s also about personality and people skills also… It’s about that individual as a person…

A lot of westerners over here have Thai wives and also have children, their family is here… And maybe teaching is the only job that they are suitable for in this country? If the students are happy with their unqualified teacher and they feel like that they are achieving good standards from this person then let them be…? After all the students happiness is the most important! If they are not happy with their teacher then they will decide for themselves that they will look for another teacher or school… And then the school that has that sort of teacher where students are leaving on a regular basis should then decide that that teacher is not suitable to work at their school… So I agree as above, get a life! Or if you don’t have a girlfriend/ boyfriend then you should seriously think about finding your self one… And if you do have one then I feel for them I really do. And if any of my grammar is incorrect? Then I’m terribly sorry…

I,ll respond to this. Asking the students in Thailand is not an indication of a good teacher. Thai students will always vote for the one that they have the most fun with.........the best entertainer etc. This is not a good indication of a good teacher. Teachers educate. How they educate is always subjective.

As for butchers being good teachers? Maybe................i won,t dispute that. Do they understand the thought processes of young learners? I doubt it. That is one of the benefits of an educational degree. It should be taught.

Does a butcher realise that a 9 year old will only absorb the first 20 minutes of the class ( learning mode ) before switching off?

Does a builder understand how to manage an unruly class? Seating arrangements? Rows, groups, U shape etc? Why would a teacher do this? What would a builder do? Shout? Punish? Expel?

Educating children is a science................and not to be taken lightly.

I hate this thread. Teaching is a science only when it is rote memorization, teaching someone to think is what education is. Teaching a language is quite simply teaching someone to think in another language. Experience is a great teacher and I would take an experienced teacher or a talented one over a so called "qualified" one any day.

Some points if I may:

Point number one; Most of the time, Thailand is getting what they pay for. In other words not much and when they are lucky, a lot.

Point number two; I think I had 3 good teachers in 20 years of education. Life and experience are what we learn from teachers get to much credit. The love of learning and the willingness to do so are much more important to being able to, than if you have a good teacher or not.

Point number three; Qualifications aren't worth the paper they are written on, unless there are measurables to back them up, such as test scores. But in Thailand kids are encouraged to look at each others papers so they won't fail, so what good are the measuring devices? How is an education truly measured here other than the piece of paper that says one is qualified.

Point number four; the person who started this post never witnessed a class by the person he is so bothered about being an unqualified teacher, just maybe he is a good one, who knows? Not liking someones stories or personalty, doesn't mean he is a bad teacher. From the OPs posts frankly, I don't like him but I wouldn't say he was a crap teacher because of it.

Point number five; I don't doubt that having an educational degree is a good thing and I do think that there are things to be gained in a practical sense by receiving one. The fact is though Thailand can't afford to have only people who are that qualified teaching. Only some international schools pay anywhere near the western wage to a teacher and the rest are far short.

Point number five; Yes there is a big difference in what Thais get paid and what farang get paid. No, it is not totally fair but how many Thais are able to go to a western university to be educated as so many farangs did? The cost of a Thai university pales in comparison and the quality does as well. This coupled with the fact that there is already a shortage of western educated English teachers raises the price that is still very low. The price to live here if you are farang is also higher than if you are Thai. Compare it to Japan or Korea, where there is an even bigger shortage and Thailand gets a pretty good deal.

As for butchers being good teachers? Maybe................i won,t dispute that. Do they understand the thought processes of young learners? I doubt it. That is one of the benefits of an educational degree. It should be taught.

Why do you think a normal person can only understand a child by getting an education to do so? We were all children once and we all observe how children act, it isn't that hard to understand what they are thinking in most given situations. hel_l, Maria Montasori came up with a whole system on her own by observing and thinking about it.

Does a butcher realise that a 9 year old will only absorb the first 20 minutes of the class ( learning mode ) before switching off?

Is that really what you learned in school? So what do you do for the rest of the time? Did you question the "science" that was quoted when they "taught" you this "fact"? If the 20 minute thing is true, why are we with them so much longer? What mode comes after learning mode? stupidity mode? I see you a rote learner, nobody really has taught you to think or you would doubt what you were taught there.

Does a builder understand how to manage an unruly class? Seating arrangements? Rows, groups, U shape etc? Why would a teacher do this? What would a builder do? Shout? Punish? Expel?

Well at least a little I agree with you here, oh wait no I don't.

Why can't someone learn these things through being a teacher as opposed to going to school to become a teacher. And there are times and places where punishment and expelling might have a place.

Okay, now I will go back to reading the rest of the thread.

Peace

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I always find these qualified/unqualified threads interesting. The reason being is that I don't think that a B Ed is all its cracked up to be. Before anyone howls at me I might add that I actually did my teaching quals and taught for a number of years in the UK. The teaching course I attended (a PGCE which is I suppose is the equivalent - together with my BA - of a B Ed) was for the most part rubbish. Yes the first few weeks were about classroom teaching skills, creating lesson plans etc, which were all very interesting and useful but after that it just deteriorated into nonsense. I remember we spent a whole month learning educational acronyms - what the h*ll was that all about?

We didn't have this discussion about qualifications in the staffroom in the UK presumably because everyone had to be qualified or they didn't get the job. But I'd say that over 80% of the teachers were terrible (based on my classroom observations) but the school couldn't fire them. I was a school governor at a very large Comprehensive at the time and I remember the headmaster lamenting that he could get rid of teachers on almost any grounds apart from incompetence. The rule of thumb I used to see if a teacher was bad was to note how fervent they were about the teaching union.

To get to the nub of my post IMHO most Thais need conversational English. The Thai teachers ram grammar into them (very well as far as I can see) but they can't articulate properly which is where the native speakers come in. I think that there should be something along the lines of teaching assistants (like they are employing more and more in the UK) who deliver the conversational classes with qualified teachers creating the lesson plans and setting the assignments/exams. In that way the school could have one qualified teacher per school (on a reasonable wage) and a number of semi qualified assistant teachers. In rural areas they could even have one peripatetic teacher covering a number of schools (with the odd formal lesson) with say a number of semi retired farangs giving something to the community in the form of conversation classes in return for beer money and/or a visa.

Who loses? No-one as far as I can see.

Comments anyone?

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Wow, this thread was created around 9 months ago. What a bump!

However, i guess it is still a relevant topic.

Sadly I dont feel the points I made were clearly read, but I am not too worried about that. People often read what they will in something and jump to conclusions without taking the time to consider what is written (something which I occasionally do myself).

Good luck with this discussion. I hope it will prove to be rational, for those who wish to carry it on further.

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