What's The Problem With Teachers?

[bruceboy]

I have had some long term concerns about the quality of the teachers at my daughters' school and the checks that they go through before they are hired to teach. I thought the best place to get advice would be a teachers website so I found one and posted my concerns. From outset I was insulted and cursed at in foul base language and accused of being "anti-teacher". I honestly had no preconceptions of what teachers in Thailand were like; I didn't even know so many farangs worked as teachers in Thailand. After the recent news story I commented that everyone must now see my point as to why police checks are necessary and I was accused of being a closet paedophile and child pornographer. I have never been so insulted in my life.

Why was I the victim vicious personal attacks for absolutley no good reason? Why, as I have learnt the hard way, do teachers seem to have some massive insecurity complex? I've never had a bad word to say about the teaching profession and am mistified by the abuse and libel to which I have been subjected. I haven't lived in Thailand for long am I missing something?

[tijnebijn]

No you are not missing something .

The people on that forum you visited , probably thought you were flamer or

something . At least that's the only reason I can think of , for being so rude to you , which

is ridiculous .

On the other hand it could be that some of them do not have good qualifications to teach at all,

feeling insecure about that and the last they want is probably a police inquiry .

If you having nothing to hide nothing to worry about not ?

Just leave it behind you , there are many nice teachers on Tv who you can have a very

descent conversation with , no doubt !

[MrSquigle]

Seems they are all a little jittery and on edge of late.....maybe it's the spotlight...maybe it's not as many happy hour and free meal nights around town anymore.

[stevemiddie]

Seems they are all a little jittery and on edge of late

I doubt it.

For the OP............i would be interested to see the link for your original post on the Teachers Forum? Can,t seem to find it on here.

Forget that.................i just found your original post.

Seems like most of the advice was helpful? I certainly didn,t see any PERSONAL attacks as such. The MODS gave some good advice.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...t=0&start=0

Edited October 20, 2007 by stevemiddie

[Neeranam]

How much do you pay for your daughter's school?

I pay only 2,500 Baht a month for mine, so therefore don't expect foreign experts with education degrees.

If you want well qualified teacher go to the top international schools. If you can't aford it then stop moaning.

It's obvious that you have a big resentment against farang teachers, deal with it and stop whinging.

[bruceboy]

Seems they are all a little jittery and on edge of late

I doubt it.

For the OP............i would be interested to see the link for your original post on the Teachers Forum? Can,t seem to find it on here.

Forget that.................i just found your original post.

Seems like most of the advice was helpful? I certainly didn,t see any PERSONAL attacks as such. The MODS gave some good advice.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...t=0&start=0

You've got the wrong end of the stick. The MODS on this forum were great. I posted on another forum ( I wont mention the name)

[bruceboy]

How much do you pay for your daughter's school?

I pay only 2,500 Baht a month for mine, so therefore don't expect foreign experts with education degrees.

If you want well qualified teacher go to the top international schools. If you can't aford it then stop moaning.

It's obvious that you have a big resentment against farang teachers, deal with it and stop whinging.

This simply isn't true I don't know anything about the farang teaching world. I've never said anything about experts. I've never said anything about degrees. The only thing I feel strongly about is people commiting fruad by using a fake degree and people who see simple police checks as somekind of outragous requirement.

[tijnebijn]

Seems they are all a little jittery and on edge of late

I doubt it.

For the OP............i would be interested to see the link for your original post on the Teachers Forum? Can,t seem to find it on here.

Forget that.................i just found your original post.

Seems like most of the advice was helpful? I certainly didn,t see any PERSONAL attacks as such. The MODS gave some good advice.

<a href="http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...t=0&start=0" target="_blank">http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...t=0&start=0</a>

You've got the wrong end of the stick. The MODS on this forum were great. I posted on another forum ( I wont mention the name)

why not mention who says A , got to say B !

[stevemiddie]

Seems they are all a little jittery and on edge of late

I doubt it.

For the OP............i would be interested to see the link for your original post on the Teachers Forum? Can,t seem to find it on here.

Forget that.................i just found your original post.

Seems like most of the advice was helpful? I certainly didn,t see any PERSONAL attacks as such. The MODS gave some good advice.

<a href="http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...t=0&start=0" target="_blank">http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...t=0&start=0</a>

You've got the wrong end of the stick. The MODS on this forum were great. I posted on another forum ( I wont mention the name)

Your original opening topic did not make that clear. Perhaps the question you asked should have been directed at the other forum. If its the one i,m thinking about................that forum is full of immature people who don,t know any better anyway. Ignore them.

[bruceboy]

Just leave it behind you , there are many nice teachers on Tv who you can have a very

descent conversation with , no doubt !

You're right peaceblondie is a great poster and I bet he is a great teacher too.

People so paranoid as to accuse someone of being a child pornographer for asking a question about police checks is obviously extremely paranoid and best left alone.

[JetsetBkk]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...t=0&start=0

Interesting thread that. I've read only the first page but even in that one page there are some interesting replies, like:

"Your daughter is happy and learning something, stop worrying" - good grief! Whatever happened to 'standards'?

"Not your business if they're legal or not"

"If the teaching is sufficient why bother? Don't got on a crusade or anything. It won't help anyone's lives" - won't help the fake teachers, that's for sure.

"if you are REALLY worried about your daughters education, as you say you are, then you wouldnt have her educated in a Thai school" - implying that Thai schools are crap and readily employ English "teachers" who are no good. Brilliant!

I did especially like the first post from "walterego":

preperation

english

asia

australia

wether

especialy

countrys

apreciate

Go to the top of the class.

The only decent replies were from the two mods - IJWT and PB. The rest of you guys are your own worst enemies when trying to convince people why it's OK to teach English with a fake degree.

OK, I read the first post on the second page from Moonfruit:

"Astonishing to read the replies above either accepting the fake degree position with a 'mai pen rai, TIT' attitude, or even going so far as to say 'if the classes were ok, then theres nothing wrong.' Unbelievable."

Says it all.

[Scott]

As a teacher I can tell you that there are plenty of unqualified people (as well as quite a few qualified ones) in the profession. What surprises me is that some of the bad ones are bright enough to use a computer.

Your request is perfectly acceptable--to make sure that there are police checks. As I understand it, they are mandatory now. At least where I work, we must have them--as well as quite a bit of other documentation.

What will make a lot of teachers nervous, myself included, is the ability of people to bring into questions qualifications/police checks on individual teachers. It should be sufficient to know that there have been checks on all teachers. This would give reasonable protection against a 'witch hunt'.

Prior to the implementation of the new visa rules, there were a lot of unqualified teachers in the country. Some of these folks have been 'grandfathered' through the system and so they wouldn't have had police checks and may not meet the current standards of qualifications. A lot of these folks came to teach quite accidently and do not necessarily have the same committment or professionalism that most teachers would be expectd to have. Please understand, this is not the majority, but may be more vocal, in their insecurity than others.

If you are concerned, you might want to politely ask the Thai administration at the school what qualifications they demand of their teachers. Please remember that some teachers who have been there a number of years may not meet those qualifications, but experience should have provided them with an upgrade.

Best of luck to you and your child.

[Scott]

As a general rule, in order to get a visa and work permit, you have to show your qualifications, have them verified, and undergo a criminal records check. These rules were implemented to stop the problem of less than desirable people from teaching in Thailand. Basically, what you need to know is if the teacher has a work permit, if so this should have been done.

I don't think there's anything wrong with questioning the school about the system they have in place. I do have a problem with 'targeting' individual teachers, unless of course there is a specific reason, such as some inappropriate behavior that violates a law.

People need to know that their children are safe and by and large, the foreign teachers in most schools aren't left alone with students in an unsupervised setting very often.

Most people who are involved in molesting students spend considerable time 'grooming' their victims. This is what you need to watch out for.

[stevemiddie]

<a href="http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...t=0&start=0" target="_blank">http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...t=0&start=0</a>

The only decent replies were from the two mods - IJWT and PB. The rest of you guys are your own worst enemies when trying to convince people why it's OK to teach English with a fake degree.

OK, I read the first post on the second page from Moonfruit:

"Astonishing to read the replies above either accepting the fake degree position with a 'mai pen rai, TIT' attitude, or even going so far as to say 'if the classes were ok, then theres nothing wrong.' Unbelievable."

Says it all.

You were a bit selective there. Read my first post on Bruceboys original post.

"Some people take the view to leave alone. I disagree with them. I think you are quite right to have concerns.

A person that is prepared to commit a crime by using FAKE documents could easily be prepared to commit what other crimes? Who knows?

Point is he/she lied. Set out on a deliberate course to mislead the Thai authorities. He / she is lucky they are only deporting them.

Cases of this kind bring mistrust on all foreign teachers. Good riddance i say. "

You will find that all of the decent qualified teachers in Thailand resent the fakies and crims as much as anyone else.

The true International Schools do background checks and verification procedures .

A poster stated that EVERY paedo that is caught in Thailand " was an English Teacher " I won,t bother replying to that.

Procedures have tightened up considerably since these nutcases taught here. Its now virtually impossible to get a Non Imm B from the UK without having a police background check. I think the same applies to most EU countries and the USA now.

We should all strive to ensure these lunatics are weeded out but to simply state that MOST teachers here are fakies and criminals is quite simply.......wrong. IMHO

Edited October 21, 2007 by stevemiddie

[PeaceBlondie]

bruceboy is a concerned parent, and that's good. As such, I've had to deal with a female assistant principal who made Hispanic junior high boys remove their Virgen of Guadalupe t-shirts because she knew they weren't good Catholics; and at the same school I had to insist that my daughters' assistant principal suspend them rather than paddle them (he was raping girls in his office!). These principals each had the same two degrees in education as my fully qualified elder daughter, but didn't have her principles.

Even if you find that all the farang and Thai teachers really have the degrees they claim to have, your child could be getting a totally inadequate education.

[JetsetBkk]

<a href="http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...t=0&start=0" target="_blank">http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...t=0&start=0</a>

The only decent replies were from the two mods - IJWT and PB. The rest of you guys are your own worst enemies when trying to convince people why it's OK to teach English with a fake degree.

OK, I read the first post on the second page from Moonfruit:

"Astonishing to read the replies above either accepting the fake degree position with a 'mai pen rai, TIT' attitude, or even going so far as to say 'if the classes were ok, then theres nothing wrong.' Unbelievable."

Says it all.

You were a bit selective there. Read my first post on Bruceboys original post.

"Some people take the view to leave alone. I disagree with them. I think you are quite right to have concerns.

A person that is prepared to commit a crime by using FAKE documents could easily be prepared to commit what other crimes? Who knows?

Point is he/she lied. Set out on a deliberate course to mislead the Thai authorities. He / she is lucky they are only deporting them.

Cases of this kind bring mistrust on all foreign teachers. Good riddance i say. "

You will find that all of the decent qualified teachers in Thailand resent the fakies and crims as much as anyone else.

I stand corrected. Your post was also excellent.

[griser]

<a href="http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...t=0&start=0" target="_blank">http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...t=0&start=0</a>

The only decent replies were from the two mods - IJWT and PB. The rest of you guys are your own worst enemies when trying to convince people why it's OK to teach English with a fake degree.

OK, I read the first post on the second page from Moonfruit:

"Astonishing to read the replies above either accepting the fake degree position with a 'mai pen rai, TIT' attitude, or even going so far as to say 'if the classes were ok, then theres nothing wrong.' Unbelievable."

Says it all.

You were a bit selective there. Read my first post on Bruceboys original post.

"Some people take the view to leave alone. I disagree with them. I think you are quite right to have concerns.

A person that is prepared to commit a crime by using FAKE documents could easily be prepared to commit what other crimes? Who knows?

Point is he/she lied. Set out on a deliberate course to mislead the Thai authorities. He / she is lucky they are only deporting them.

Cases of this kind bring mistrust on all foreign teachers. Good riddance i say. "

You will find that all of the decent qualified teachers in Thailand resent the fakies and crims as much as anyone else.

I stand corrected. Your post was also excellent.

I think that you should indeed check your teachers credentials. however, If your paying anything under 200k baht a year your pretty much getting what you pay for. If you want a qualified teacher with a teaching degree then pay for it.

The wages paid to farang teachers in Thailand are the equivelant of a salary at Mcdonalds in the US. Given this pay rate the average parent shouldn't be too up-in-arms about qualifications IMHO.

Now on the subject of police checks, I absolutely agree they are essential. Too many bad apples in our ranks. if this is implemented the bad ones would eventually be weeded out and our reputation, such as it is, would slowly be restored

If you really want to make sure of the quality of the teaching in your kids school. Visit the school and ask to sit in on a class or two. Most teachers won't mind (but be ready to be asked to help with the english conversation!) ;-)

Greg

Edited October 21, 2007 by griser

[geriatrickid]

If you really want to make sure of the quality of the teaching in your kids school. Visit the school and ask to sit in on a class or two. Most teachers won't mind (but be ready to be asked to help with the english conversation!) ;-)

Greg

So true, and the easiest way to verify. Ask some of the uni grad students and they'll tell you they often sit in on a prospective prof's class to see how the prof interacts with the students. I did it for an organic chem class and it saved my sanity as I discovered that the proposed prof, while having a double doctorate, was a dud. (I was the luckiest kid in the world when I found the other prof that could take complex concepts and explain them for simpletons like me.)

Kids are an investment. Protect that investment. If you pay extra tuition, then you are a client and are entitled to the level and quality of service commensurate with that additional tuition.

[Loaded]

Bruceboy

I feel your concerns are genuine and why shouldn't a parent be concerned about who's teaching their kid. However, Thai education is not organised, financed or respected by its government in the way our education systems back home are. Therefore difficult to blame the effect (under-qualified teachers) but you should take this up with the cause (Thai MoE).

Edited October 22, 2007 by Loaded

[Thaiboxer]

It's true....teachers' salaries in Thailand are quite low unless you work for one of the real international schools (not the ones who just use the word "international" in their name). Real international schools generally recruit teachers from the country they represent via job fairs then send them over here. As you can imagine, these teachers have education degrees (many have a Master's) with some experience. If these schools do take somebody already in the country, which is very rare, the salary offered is much lower from what I've read.

Another thing to consider, is what type of social circle your kids will be involved in through their school years and after they graduate. Putting kids in a real international school may alienate them from their Thai environment which can be a burden if they plan on living/working here. If they're just here to study then head back home once daddy's project is finished, then it's ok.

[alaina]

There's no foolproof way to find a good teacher or even one that hasn't broken a few laws anywhere, not just in Thailand. The problem is that Thailand can attract a some people that want to stay for various, um, habitual reasons and they become teachers. They may have a bachelor's degree, but as you read on the "professor" forum, they don't always act like it. That being said, some teachers are able to maintain an active social life discreetly and behave like professionals at school.

Most teachers in private schools should have real degrees since the crackdown. Anybody that stayed on teaching with fakes after teachers were jailed for doing it should be loony enough to spot. It's a gray area whether or not teachers in government schools need degrees and for what many of those positions pay, so be it.

A degree in Education is no guarantee of a good teacher either, but it's the safest bet. (Yes, there are good teachers without, I know... let's not start that argument again.) What that degree says is that at some point the teacher decided to teach and took the time, money and effort to earn the qualification.

All bets are off if the people above the teachers can't run a school. Very few school owners and administrators have the personal and organizational skills to deal with a Western staff. Looking at teacher turnover may be an indication on how well the school is run.

[Ijustwannateach]

It has been awhile since we have had a thread that was such an excellent candidate for the exercise of rule #3 in the Teaching Subforum Guidelines.

3. It is inflammatory to refer to teachers in general or groups of teachers (by age, nationality, ethnicity, age, sexual preference, religion, or gender) in negative terms. It is also inflammatory to refer to the group of posters on this forum in negative terms. You may relate anecdotes about individual teachers who specifically deserve criticism in relation to some part of their identity as listed above, but such remarks should be carefully considered. The moderators reserve the right to determine if such statements about individual teachers remain on the forum.

The very title of this thread is treading on thin ice, and as it is little more than asking for a rehash of another thread (and the second rehash at that), I am closing the thread. I will be assigning penalties to those users who have broken rule #3 above. I would recommend that OP let this go unless he has actual real news to report on the matter; we will not continually rehearse his grievances about grievances here.

"S"