sriracha john Posted February 14, 2008 Author Share Posted February 14, 2008 AEC wants 47 indicted The Assets Examination Commission (AEC) yesterday voted 8-0 to lodge an indictment against 47 people who initiated the controversial two- and three-digit lottery. The AEC indictment would be directly lodged with the Supreme Court's Tribunal for Political Office Holders within one or two weeks, spokesman Sak Korsaengrueng said yesterday after a two-hour meeting. AEC member Udom Fuengfung, the lead investigator in the lottery case, had earlier said the AEC had complete jurisdiction to investigate the lottery case and can directly indict those responsible on its own. Udom was countering the Office of Attorney General's statement on Monday that the AEC did not have complete jurisdiction over the lottery case and needed OAG's assistance. - The Nation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted March 9, 2008 Author Share Posted March 9, 2008 AEC to sue Thaksin in lottery case today The Assets Examination Committee (AEC) is expected today to sue former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and 46 fellow defendants over abuse-of-power and graft charges relating to the government's decision in 2003 to introduce the two- and three-digit lotteries. If found guilty, Thaksin, his Cabinet and senior lottery officials are liable to pay a combined 6.9 Billion Baht in damages. They will also face a jail term of more than two decades each for more than 16 indictments under the Criminal Code and relevant laws on corruption, excise, lottery and fiscal management. The case is expected to be lodged with the Supreme Court's Criminal Tribunal for Office Holders for a fast-track review for corruption. The Law Society of Thailand will represent the plaintiff after the AEC decided to bypass the Office of the Attorney-General due to differences on two legal opinions relating to the investigative report and defendants. After filing the plaintiff writ, the AEC plans to send a memorandum alerting Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej to the implications of the pending litigation. Three incumbent Cabinet members were involved in the 2003 lottery decision and face trial: Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister Surapong Suebwonglee, Labour Minister Uraiwan Thienthong and Deputy Transport Minister Anurak Jureemas. The gist of the litigation will centre on a plaintiff argument that Thaksin and other defendants intentionally conspired to misread relevant provisions in order to produce a wrongful decision for the new lottery. Even though the revenues from the lotteries were meant for charities and for the subsidisation of police work, the channelling of funds is not the issue. The illegal means by which they are generated, however, is. The plaintiff further contends that the defendants have violated relevant provisions in appropriating the lottery revenues. - The Nation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted March 9, 2008 Author Share Posted March 9, 2008 (edited) Finance Minister to be charged in lottery legalisation case BANGKOK - Finance Minister Surapong Suebwonglee and two other ministers will be charged on March 10 at the Supreme Court in relation to the 2 and 3 digit lottery legalisation case, according to a source at the Assets Examination Committee (AEC). A total of 47 people including three current ministers as well as ministers in the previous government of Thaksin Shinawatra will be charged with malfeasance. Aside from Surapong, the two other current ministers are Labour Minister Uraiwan Thianthong and Deputy Transport Minister Anurak Jureemart. The three ministers also served in the Thaksin government. Other defendants-to-be are senior government officials attached to the Government Lottery Office and other related agencies. In its Monday meeting, the AEC sub-committee in charge of the lottery legalization probe will also consider sending a notification to prime minister Samak Sundaravej informing him three of his ministers will be charged in court. - TNA Edited March 9, 2008 by sriracha john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted March 10, 2008 Author Share Posted March 10, 2008 Lottery losers The Assets Scrutiny Committee on Monday recommended the indictment of 47 people, including three cabinet ministers in the present government, for alleged mismanagement of the two-and three-digit lottery. ASC member Sak Korsangruang confirmed that a team of legal experts was preparing to hand over documents in the case to the court. "It is now up to the Supreme Court whether or not to accept the case," Sak said, adding that the PM was not notified before the case was filed. The accused include Finance Minister and Deputy Prime Minister Surapong Suebwonglee, Labour Minister Uraiwan Thienthong and Deputy Transport Minister Anurak Jureemart. Others include former cabinet ministers of the Thaksin Shinawatra government and officials of the Government Lottery Office (GLO). Continued here: http://www.bangkokpost.net/topstories/tops...s.php?id=126413 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
younghusband Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 In other developments, the AEC resolved to seek an indictment itself against the entire Thaksin Shinawatra cabinet for passing an "unlawful" resolution in 2003 to legalise the two-and-three lottery scheme, and for "unlawfully" approving the spending of its profits, according to AEC spokesman Sak Korsaengreung. He said the decision was made after the anti-graft body and the Office of the Attorney-General remained at odds over some issues regarding the case. - MCOT The lottery case was the most absurd charge against Thaksin and is an indication of the desperation of the old guard to find a charge that would stick.What's slightly surprising is that this ludicrous charge still has apparent life in it.Perhaps it's just like a gecko's thrashing but discarded tail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 (edited) a bit of a waste of time this thread really, Khun Noppadon Pattama has informed us all that Mr T is off back to London after the court hearing so Mr T has to be inocent Edited March 10, 2008 by gjones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 The lottery case was the most absurd charge against Thaksin I understand the Cabinet broke a couple of laws when they established it. Why is that absurd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted March 10, 2008 Author Share Posted March 10, 2008 (edited) Uraiwan Thienthong Labor Minister says lottery case will not impede her work The Labor Minister, Mrs. Uraiwan Thienthong (wife of TRT Non-Banned #1 Sanoh), who is also one of the three Cabinet members who are involving in the legal lottery case, says she is still performing her duty as the Labor Minister. She says she will be dismissed only if the court determines that she is guilty. At the same time, a member fo the Assets Scrutiny Committee (ASC), Mr. Sak Korsaengruang, says his committee will hold another meeting on the legal lottery case after it has filed a lawsuit against Mrs. Uraiwan and two other Cabinet members, namely Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister Surapong Suebwonglee and Deputy Minister of Transport Anurak Jureemart. According to the National Counter Corruption Commission (NCC)'s regulation, the three Cabinet members have to stop their duties immediately after the court has accepted to consider their cases. *which, despite Uraiwan's claim, is NOT after a guilt determination* - ThaiNews Edited March 10, 2008 by sriracha john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 It will be a major coup if they manage to remove Surapong from his position at the Finance Ministry. >>> I guess now I will be accused of supporting the coups and military junta in Burma, but what the hel_l... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted March 10, 2008 Author Share Posted March 10, 2008 If he's removed, would they replace the Finance Minister doctor with the Deputy Finance Minster nurse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveromagnino Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 If he's removed, would they replace the Finance Minister doctor with the Deputy Finance Minster nurse? probably more qualified than any of the finance ministers from TRT before or ideas suggested by PPP. Mingkwan???? wasn't that their other plan? The lottery was not legally introduced, the rights to sell tickets was completely non transparent and no one know where any of the money went but the rumour is it was used for giveaways to selected TRT voting areas. Probably most of this is minor compared to the other dodgy TRT deals, but if they can nail these guys on this, then good on them. No bans though, we don't need matyrs. We need the cash. And we need these f&*kers to actually be scared to rip us off like they did last time they were in power. CTX anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted March 10, 2008 Author Share Posted March 10, 2008 Ex-PM Thaksin faces new Thailand graft charges BANGKOK - Thai graftbusters filed new corruption charges against former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra on Monday, accusing him and other top officials of illegal use of funds from a state lottery. The Asset Scrutiny Committee also charged Thaksin, 46 cabinet ministers and other top officials for wrongly approving and operating the lottery from 2003 to 2006. The charges were filed at the Supreme Court which can take up to 45 days to decide whether it will hear the case, ASC lawyer Sitichoke Sicharoen told reporters. If the court accepted the case, Finance Minister Surapong Suebwonglee and two junior ministers, three of the 47 named in the graft charge, would be required by law to step aside while the trial is conducted, an ASC spokesman said. The ASC asked the court to order Thaksin and some other ministers to pay 15 billion baht in compensation to the state, Sitichoke said. Thaksin, who returned to Thailand last month and insists his political career is over, denied any wrongdoing. "I am not worried. I did nothing wrong," Thaksin told reporters. After his ouster, Thaksin was accused by the coupmakers of presiding over rampant corruption during his five years in power, but he and his family have faced few formal charges. Thaksin will appear in court on Wednesday to face corruption charges related to his wife's purchase of a prime piece of land in Bangkok from the Bank of Thailand. Thaksin said he would leave Thailand on Thursday for a three-week overseas trip focusing on the English Premier League's Manchester City soccer club, which he bought while in exile. Upon his return to Thailand, Thaksin was immediately granted bail by the Supreme Court which stated he could travel overseas, but had to seek permission first. The ASC has also frozen nearly $2 billion of Thaksin's assets in Thailand, citing allegations of graft and abuse of power. Although a democratically-elected civilian government has taken power after a December general election, the ASC is obligated under Thai law to work until June. - Reuters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man River Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 The lottery case was the most absurd charge against Thaksin I understand the Cabinet broke a couple of laws when they established it. Why is that absurd? Because it is absurd. If they are down to arguing technicalities against Thaksin, and that is what it looks like, then the part of the coup pertaining to fighting corruption was a dismal failure. Were the proceeds of the lottery used illegally? No. The channeling of funds is not the issue. Anything else is a technicality at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted March 10, 2008 Author Share Posted March 10, 2008 (edited) Circumventing Parliament doesn't sound so absurd to want hold someone accountable... and a bit more than a technicality, because if any massive government program involving billions and billions can be implemented by simply issuing a Cabinet decree, that spells trouble... Indictments sought for former Thaksin cabinet members over lottery BANGKOK - Thailand's Assets Examination Committee (AEC) on Monday filed a criminal lawsuit against deposed prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and 46 other people, including three members of the present government for alleged malfeasance concerning the two- and three-digit lottery. A team of lawyers for the AEC handed in 150-pages of indictment documents and related evidence in more than 40 boxes to the Supreme Court. *once again, no small wonder these cases take time to assemble* The lawsuit details the case regarding the then Thaksin cabinet resolution in 2003 approving the digital lottery and implementing the scheme without parliamentary approval. - TNA ============================================================================= New charges filed against Thaksin in Thailand The charges center on a procedural issue, claiming that Thaksin and his cabinet legalized an underground lottery with a decree, when they should have sought parliamentary approval, Udom said. - AFP ============================================================================== because when you do that... you can end up with 13 Billion Baht in suspect expeditures... AEC to Take Thaksin and Cronies to Court over Lottery Scandal Involvement The Thaksin government introduced the new lottery scheme on July 8, 2003, claiming that such move would help eliminate private underground lottery operations. However, the decision concluded by Thaksin and forty-six other ousted Cabinet members and officials of the Government Lottery Office to legalize the two-and-three digit lotteries was concluded by investigators to have violated the Government Lottery Office Act. The investigators team reportedly, was looking into irregularities found in the group’s 13 billion baht spending acquired from generated revenues by the scheme, along with damages to the state caused by the scheme’s tax-free nature. - Thailand Outlook Edited March 10, 2008 by sriracha john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man River Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Circumventing Parliament doesn't sound so absurd to want hold someone accountable... and a bit more than a technicality, because if any massive government program involving billions and billions can be implemented by simply issuing a Cabinet decree, that spells trouble... They were parliament. Hence, it is going to be difficult to prove that they circumvented themselves. This is just another unproven accusation about a so called illegal lottery where the most motivated accusers can't find any proof of money stolen. Really, at the end of the day if proved guilty, it should be for more than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
younghusband Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Circumventing Parliament doesn't sound so absurd to want hold someone accountable... and a bit more than a technicality, because if any massive government program involving billions and billions can be implemented by simply issuing a Cabinet decree, that spells trouble... They were parliament. Hence, it is going to be difficult to prove that they circumvented themselves. This is just another unproven accusation about a so called illegal lottery where the most motivated accusers can't find any proof of money stolen. Really, at the end of the day if proved guilty, it should be for more than this. It's a hopeless task I'm afraid.These anti-Thaksin obsessives left logic and reason behind a long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbowman1993 Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Circumventing Parliament doesn't sound so absurd to want hold someone accountable... and a bit more than a technicality, because if any massive government program involving billions and billions can be implemented by simply issuing a Cabinet decree, that spells trouble... They were parliament. Hence, it is going to be difficult to prove that they circumvented themselves. This is just another unproven accusation about a so called illegal lottery where the most motivated accusers can't find any proof of money stolen. Really, at the end of the day if proved guilty, it should be for more than this. It's a hopeless task I'm afraid.These anti-Thaksin obsessives left logic and reason behind a long time ago. Kill em all, let God sort em out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted March 10, 2008 Author Share Posted March 10, 2008 Circumventing Parliament doesn't sound so absurd to want hold someone accountable... and a bit more than a technicality, because if any massive government program involving billions and billions can be implemented by simply issuing a Cabinet decree, that spells trouble... They were parliament. Hence, it is going to be difficult to prove that they circumvented themselves. This is just another unproven accusation about a so called illegal lottery where the most motivated accusers can't find any proof of money stolen. Really, at the end of the day if proved guilty, it should be for more than this. I know things got a bit murky during the Thaksin era, but I still recall that Parliament is a separate entity from the Cabinet. As for unproven, yes, at this point it is... that's why they have a court case... to determine guilt or innocence. As for proof, how about we wait and see what's all in the 40 boxes, eh?... The Assets Examination Committee yesterday filed corruption charges in the Supreme Court against ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra and former Cabinet ministers, in connection with the two and three digit lottery scandal. The Nation ===================================================================== Court Complaint Lodged Over Thai Lottery BANGKOK, Thailand — An anti-corruption body set up to investigate the activities of ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra's government filed a court complaint against him, his former Cabinet and other officials Monday alleging abuse of power in implementing a government lottery. The targets of the suit are accused of malfeasance for allegedly mismanaging and illegally spending money gained from the lottery scheme initiated by Thaksin's government. - Associated Press Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 The Cabinet broke the law, the Lottery Act. What is so absurd about that? They didn't take it to the parlament, they didn't get an approval from the Council of State, they simply issued an illegal order. Cabinet is not a free entity outside of legal framework. Any of their decisions can be legally challenged, and two-digit lottery is not the first one. It might be a small fish but it's illegal nonetheless. You can argue about AEC's priorities when considering the cases but I think they had a separate team working on this one, once it was ready for prosecution they acted on it. Why is it absurd? Do you think the best course of action for them was to bin it until they indict Thaksin on at least a dozen other charges? Now that would be absurd, wouldn't it? The way the money was spend is a different case altogether, in AEC's own admission. They probably have another team working on that. There was an argument with Office of Attorney General over who should indict the cabinet. AEC is convinced they can go alone. OAG might have its own agenda, I don't know - who is in charge there? Has the new government any leverage there? OAG is also trying to stall SC Asset case, maybe on reasonable grounds, maybe not. Let's see how it plays out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Clifton Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Circumventing Parliament doesn't sound so absurd to want hold someone accountable... and a bit more than a technicality, because if any massive government program involving billions and billions can be implemented by simply issuing a Cabinet decree, that spells trouble... They were parliament. Hence, it is going to be difficult to prove that they circumvented themselves. This is just another unproven accusation about a so called illegal lottery where the most motivated accusers can't find any proof of money stolen. Really, at the end of the day if proved guilty, it should be for more than this. Not yet. On the same note, if one was to ask for minutes of Thaksin`s Cabinet meetings at the time, you wouldn't find anything as they were mostly never recorded. Wonder why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
younghusband Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 The Cabinet broke the law, the Lottery Act. What is so absurd about that? They didn't take it to the parlament, they didn't get an approval from the Council of State, they simply issued an illegal order. Cabinet is not a free entity outside of legal framework. Any of their decisions can be legally challenged, and two-digit lottery is not the first one.It might be a small fish but it's illegal nonetheless. You can argue about AEC's priorities when considering the cases but I think they had a separate team working on this one, once it was ready for prosecution they acted on it. Why is it absurd? Do you think the best course of action for them was to bin it until they indict Thaksin on at least a dozen other charges? Now that would be absurd, wouldn't it? The way the money was spend is a different case altogether, in AEC's own admission. They probably have another team working on that. There was an argument with Office of Attorney General over who should indict the cabinet. AEC is convinced they can go alone. OAG might have its own agenda, I don't know - who is in charge there? Has the new government any leverage there? OAG is also trying to stall SC Asset case, maybe on reasonable grounds, maybe not. Let's see how it plays out. I don't think there is any doubt there was a procedural mistake and that the law was broken, and that there is a need for follow up.Yet the pursuit of the case is devoid of good judgement.Somebody needed to consider what level of prioritisation was appropriate, or indeed whether there was a prima facie case for dropping the case after ensuring safeguards to prevent future similar irregularities were in place.But context is all. As you suggest this is a very minor matter which I would maintain has been caught up in the "nail Thaksin at any price" campaign. To quote Bangkok Pundit. "This is really such a joke.So they are charged for setting up an illegal lottery, but have to pay money back because of tax exemptions granted to such a lottery.If they hadn't set up the lottery in the first place, the government wouldn't have received ANY money from the 2 and 3 digit lotteries.Such lotteries were underground before.There is no mention of the extra money that reached the government coffers instead of ending up in the hands of influential underground figures". Apart from the ravings of the paranoid anti-Thaksinites, there's not a jot or tittle of evidence that Thaksin or his associates were corruptly implicated in this matter.It's just the best of example of how the effort to nail Thaksin went bonkers and off the rails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 I remember a big fuss a while ago about inappropriate use of lottery funds to the tune of billions. Big or small - you can't let the cabinet run an illegal operation no matter under what excuse. It's not simply a procedural mistake - they have set up an illegal gambling business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
younghusband Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 I remember a big fuss a while ago about inappropriate use of lottery funds to the tune of billions.Big or small - you can't let the cabinet run an illegal operation no matter under what excuse. It's not simply a procedural mistake - they have set up an illegal gambling business. One can argue about the procedure:certainly there was a carelesness which needs to be avoided in future.But it's hyperbole to talk about the Cabinet running an illegal lottery business.I'm all for curtailing abuse of power but it's worth remembering the Cabinet was the legally elected government of Thailand with all the authority that entails (ie opposed to that of the junta which was nil).What's lacking here is a complete lack of perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted March 11, 2008 Author Share Posted March 11, 2008 (edited) The Thaksin apologists are going overboard on this one. It's not breaking the law, it's a "procedural mistake.".... It's not lying to conceal hidden assets, it's an "honest mistake." As long as "some of the money" reaches the Treasury, isn't that good enough?... Edited March 11, 2008 by sriracha john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted March 11, 2008 Author Share Posted March 11, 2008 there's not a jot or tittle of evidence that Thaksin or his associates were corruptly implicated in this matter. Had a good thorough look inside all those large boxes already, have you? Or is the another one of your infamous predictions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 One can argue about the procedure:certainly there was a carelesness which needs to be avoided in future.But it's hyperbole to talk about the Cabinet running an illegal lottery business. That's what it was. It's illegal to bet on two or three digits, no matter who does it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 The Thaksin apologists are going overboard on this one. It's not breaking the law, it's a "procedural mistake.".... It's not lying to conceal hidden assets, it's an "honest mistake." As long as "some of the money" reaches the Treasury, isn't that good enough?... All of a sudden it is about 'perspective' and 'context' when for the past 18 months 'perspective' and 'context' rarely featured in their arguments. Swings and round abouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
younghusband Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 The Thaksin apologists are going overboard on this one. It's not breaking the law, it's a "procedural mistake.".... It's not lying to conceal hidden assets, it's an "honest mistake." As long as "some of the money" reaches the Treasury, isn't that good enough?... Nobody denies the law appears to have been broken.It's about context and proportionality, concepts which with respect some people have some difficulty grasping in their almost pathological hatred of Thaksin.You haven't any evidence of corruption in this case but if and when you do please let us know.If this is unearthed I will be the first to accept the position.Actually Plus has set out the facts rather well although I disagree with his emphasis.I suggest you consider adopting a similar measured approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 It's about context and proportionality... Well, 40 billion baht in revenues is a not a small sum for any business. Some parts of it was spent on off-books political campaigning, some was spent on scholarships for politically connected individuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSnake Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 More to come Iam sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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