New Entrance Fees For National Parks

[bunta71]

Same B.S. goes on in the Philippines but not as prevelant. Last motorbike I sold when there was advertised "55,000 Pesos for foreigners...65,000 for Philippinos !!" I agree with the former poster about charging Thais at least double for any service. It's a little power trip thing I have

[tartempion]

Dr. Adis Israngkura, an economist at Chiang Mai University and a consultant to Thailand's first and foremost "think tank" (Thailand Development Research Institute) conducted a research project for TDRI on this very topic and wrote the best paper, "Determining entrance fees to national parks: the case of Thailand" that I have ever encountered on the subject.

The paper, published in 2001, made the following recommendations:

1. Higher fees, for all, to the more popular parks with many facilities, which can subsidize the smaller parks with very few facilities.

2. Higher fees, for all, on long week-ends/holidays when parks tend to be heavily visited to help ease congestion and lessen environmental degradation, which will result in increased visitor satisfaction.

3. Annual memberships and lifetime memberships should be offered and available to all.

4. Both Thai and foreigners should pay the same entrance fee, but special services should be made available to the foreign visitor for additional higher fees, such as English-speaking tour/travel guides or English-language information booklets/maps. "The current policy unnecessarily jeopardizes the the image of the overall tourism industry."

5. Entrances fees should be exempted for the elderly, the handicapped, and children visiting on school trips.

I think when an expert, and Thai himself, recognizes it as a problem, it's VERY telling....

now if they could just start working on #4.... we'd see a drop in the number of National Park threads... smile.gif

thanks again, meadish.... thumbsup.gif

And an increase of foreign visitors like myself

I hope the Thai authorities who made these new decisions read this forum:

I visited Everglades National Park: 1 car, 2 people for 5 days (in-out every day) 10 usd or 400 baht, ticket valid one week.

Fantastic infrastructure, clean, caring guards everywhere.

In Thaliand the only decent infrastructure I ever saw was in Kao Yai.

Score: USA 10, Thailand 01.

I dont think Doi Inthanon will see me that soon at B400....whilst at 100 I would.

The rubbish at most parks is not worth the effort.

Have you seen the shell cimetary in Krabi province for instance, what a shame.

Edited November 29, 2007 by tartempion

[Jai Dee]

A full range of the new fees and service charges can be found in English language at the National Park, Wildlife and Plant Conservation Department's website here.

If I'm not mistaken, Jai Dee, those are the old rates as there's no 400, 200, 100 baht and free sliding scale for Foreigners that the new rates reflect. They also report a stay of up to 7 days for one entrance fee and the new rates report 5 days.

You may be right John... the website currently states 400 baht for foreign adults and 200 baht for foreign children at all national parks.

[meadish_sweetball]

The website information is indeed out of date.

[seri thai]

The discrimination is not on race but nationality so its natioalist, not racist.

I fear you are wrong with your assessment here. I tried to enter a park with a group of friends from Malaysia and Hong Kong. They were all charged Thai rate despite not understanding or speaking a word of Thai. The man in the booth tried to charge myself and my (half) Thai children, who have Thai citizenship, the full Farang rate.

When asked about this, the guy in charge said they regarded Asians as Thai, Farangs were Farang even when they had Thai ID. We only succeeded in getting in, all of us paying Thai admission, after a long discussion and calling his boss.

The discrimination is based on appearance, (I don't like your face,) not nationality.

I appreciate I'm meandering off topic here but it's the usual falang rant!

Unfortunately Johnny No-Stars at the ticket booth has a limited education/travel opportunities and thai-centric world view passed down to him by those who know whats good for you. Theres a lot of em in the west too tho, so its not just educational opportunity!

Have you noticed how taxi drivers the world over share the same political views?

I had that Thaksin Shinawatra in the back of my cab the other day, told him what I thought, -shootings too good for 'em etc etc.

OK so discrimination is based on appearance, so what else is new.

and where doesn't this happen? I'm not leaving because of it. Not before Kristallnacht anyways.

[Johpa]

I appreciate I'm meandering off topic here but it's the usual falang rant!

Unfortunately Johnny No-Stars at the ticket booth has a limited education/travel opportunities and thai-centric world view passed down to him by those who know whats good for you. Theres a lot of em in the west too tho, so its not just educational opportunity!

Have you noticed how taxi drivers the world over share the same political views?

I had that Thaksin Shinawatra in the back of my cab the other day, told him what I thought, -shootings too good for 'em etc etc.

OK so discrimination is based on appearance, so what else is new.

and where doesn't this happen? I'm not leaving because of it. Not before Kristallnacht anyways.

Not that I disagree totally upon the ""farang rant" aspect, but there really are not that many institutions in the more modern world that openly discriminate based upon race in the manner that the Thai elite does. Certainly at the individual level there is discrimination based upon looks and race, but it is rare outside the medieval countries in the Middle East to be so blatant at the corporate and government institutional levels. And it is more a Sino-centric world view than a Tai-centric world view. And although I have found many cabbies around the world to share certain personality traits, I have found their political views to be quite varied.

[sriracha john]

A full range of the new fees and service charges can be found in English language at the National Park, Wildlife and Plant Conservation Department's website here.

If I'm not mistaken, Jai Dee, those are the old rates as there's no 400, 200, 100 baht and free sliding scale for Foreigners that the new rates reflect. They also report a stay of up to 7 days for one entrance fee and the new rates report 5 days.

You may be right John... the website currently states 400 baht for foreign adults and 200 baht for foreign children at all national parks.

The website information is indeed out of date.

That's reassuring.... especially as I used that link back on Post #17 to specifically highlight the "old" rules.

Although I would give them a break and not say it's "out of date" as the new rules don't come into effect until tomorrow...

at which time I'm sure they'll have all the new rates and rules up in place.

and also with the same probability, world peace and harmony will be fully implemented tomorrow, as well.

Johpa:

discrimination based upon looks and race to be so blatant at the government institutional levels.

In regards to the National Parks, this is a crucial difference in Thailand and one that is particularly distasteful.

Edited November 29, 2007 by sriracha john

[jumnien]

There is nothing in the entrance fees that references race in any fashion whatsoever. It does address nationality, however.

[sriracha john]

It's not in the rules per say, it's in the implementation of the rules at the entrance gate level.

The employees, who are the direct representatives of the government, apply the racist pricing policy on all-too-frequent basis to the point it's discrimination on a government institutional level.

Edited November 30, 2007 by sriracha john

[Ray1167]

get a thai driving license. its that simple . then you only pay the thai price to enter parks.

[sriracha john]

If only it was... *suggest reading the multiple posts that contradict that assessment*

[asiaworld]

Woneder, why nobody started on worldwide visa fees yet .. that'll be a good one ..

I want to enter Lao, why do i have to pay 35$, when all ASEAN guys, can get in for free ?!? RACIAL DISCRIMINATION !!!!!!!!!!!!! Pure & simple

Or even North Korea.. thats much more "fun" than any thai park

[jumnien]

Oh, the terrible plight of the caucasian man being visciously discriminated against in every corner of the world! Woe is us! Let's all hold hands and sing "We shall overcome"!

[meemiathai]

Please do not disturb when people are moaning.

[tartempion]

Woneder, why nobody started on worldwide visa fees yet .. that'll be a good one ..

I want to enter Lao, why do i have to pay 35$, when all ASEAN guys, can get in for free ?!? RACIAL DISCRIMINATION !!!!!!!!!!!!! Pure & simple

Or even North Korea.. thats much more "fun" than any thai park

Well, I live nearby Nong Khai and could visit Vientiane/Laos daily (and I don't need to do visa runs neither ), if it wasn't for the 1300/1500 baht.

I could buy some french wines or portugese porto.

But I don't and guess you don't know why?

[TAWP]

Oh, the terrible plight of the caucasian man being visciously discriminated against in every corner of the world! Woe is us! Let's all hold hands and sing "We shall overcome"!

The constant troll'er has returned...

[007]

Thanks for all the effort!

I'm still not paying even 100 Baht, though.

There are many nice national parks...

...in Indonesia, Malaysia, Australia, New Zealand, Brazil...

[astral]

I've been to several parks over the 20+ years here in Thailand.

I haven't really experienced anything worth going back for and only go if I have friends visiting who might want to go.

I agree with that ,in general.

The one exception would be Koh Samet.

[Briggsy]

Got charged 400 Baht today at Taksin Maharat. This is a Group 2 park and I shouldn't have paid that. I should have paid 200 Baht. Unfortunately didn't have any proof to hand. But will in future!

I suspect like any previous price change, it'll take about 1-6 months to filter down to the guys and gals on the desks.

[sriracha john]

Got charged 400 Baht today at Taksin Maharat. This is a Group 2 park and I shouldn't have paid that. I should have paid 200 Baht. Unfortunately didn't have any proof to hand. But will in future!

I suspect like any previous price change, it'll take about 1-6 months to filter down to the guys and gals on the desks.

Thanks to meadish for Post #2... the "proof" prints up nicely.

btw, how was Taksin Maharat? Pretty cold today, I imagine?

Taksin Maharat is a rugged mountainous park, often swathed in cooling mists. Thanon Thongchai mountain is a major watershed area. Evergreen forest and pine forest cover the upper hills, with deciduous and dipterocarp forest in the lower elevations. Wildlife includes serow, sambar deer, barking deer, golden cat, wild pig, and bear. Visitors can enjoy cool fresh air all year round. The nights can be chilly during the winter in the months of November till February.

Drove by it 2 years ago but didn't stop on our way to Mae Sot.

Edited December 1, 2007 by sriracha john

[jumnien]

Oh, the terrible plight of the caucasian man being visciously discriminated against in every corner of the world! Woe is us! Let's all hold hands and sing "We shall overcome"!

The constant troll'er has returned...

Typical Ron Paul supporter drivel....

[Goshawk]

I've been to several parks over the 20+ years here in Thailand.

I haven't really experienced anything worth going back for and only go if I have friends visiting who might want to go.

I agree with that ,in general.

The one exception would be Koh Samet.

Quite ridiculous statements.. obviously never spent any time in Khao Yai, Nam Nao, Keang Krachan, Khao Sam Roi Yot.. to name a few (or if you have, never really knew what to expect to find there or how to go about looking for it..)

[sriracha john]

Oh, the terrible plight of the caucasian man being visciously discriminated against in every corner of the world! Woe is us! Let's all hold hands and sing "We shall overcome"!

The constant troll'er has returned...

Typical Ron Paul supporter drivel....

Move in, now move out

Hands up, now hands down

Back up, back up

Tell me what you're gonna do now

Breath in, now breath out

Hands up, now hands down

Back up, back up

Tell me what you're gonna do now

Keep trollin' trollin' trollin' trollin'

Uggh

Keep trollin' trollin' trollin' trollin'

What?

Keep trollin' trollin' trollin' trollin'

Uggh

- Limp Bizkit (Fred Durst-vocals)

[sriracha john]

I've been to several parks over the 20+ years here in Thailand.

I haven't really experienced anything worth going back for and only go if I have friends visiting who might want to go.

I agree with that ,in general.

The one exception would be Koh Samet.

Quite ridiculous statements.. obviously never spent any time in Khao Yai, Nam Nao, Keang Krachan, Khao Sam Roi Yot.. to name a few (or if you have, never really knew what to expect to find there or how to go about looking for it..)

I won't say ridiculous, but I will say that absolutely some of the best sights I've seen in 73 provinces I've been to are contained within the 30 or so National Parks I've been to.

Edited December 2, 2007 by sriracha john

[wilko]

Sorry haven't read all the posts yet so apologies if this has been mooted already, but this seems to be a classic bit of Thai face-saving - it was obvious that ALL tourists whether they paid or not were unhappy with the 400 baht charge, so rather than say it was a mistake they bring in the most complicated system of different levels imaginable.

So what will the up-shot be?

No-one will know what they should be charged or charging, some will pay the old rate some will get the new rate wrong, parks will get the wrong level assigned to them.

If you stay in accommodation outside a park for a week, you will have to pay an entry fee every day - a group of 4 paying 400 baht each - 11,200 baht for a week!

However there might be a bright side - a system this complex will be inoperable so maybe they will turn a blind eye and drop the fees and just settle for a contribution at the gate...I wonder if this was their intention all along?

[sriracha john]

In related National Park news...

Park visitors to be limited from July

The number of visitors to national parks is being limited to reduce the damage to Thailand's national resources, especially in Marine National Parks, said Preecha Chansiritanon, Deputy Director-General of the National Parks, Wildlife and Plant Conservation Department.

Since the increasing numbers of visitors each year and their activities in national parks has affected national resources, the department needs to set up measures to manage national resources as well for the security of tourists, Preecha said.

He said tourist activities that threatened national parks included diving and boating near coral reefs.

The department issued an order limiting the number of visitors to national parks on November 20, but it will not take effect until July next year.

The order covers:

Koh Surin and Koh Similan, two Marine National Parks in Phang Nga province;

Kaeng Krachan National Park in Petchaburi and Prachuap Khiri Khan;

Erawan National Park in Kanchanaburi;

Khao Yai National Park in Prachinburi, Sara Buri, Nakhon Nayok and Nakhon Ratchasima;

Phu Kradueng National Park in Loei; and

Doi Inthanon, Doi Suthep-Pui, Huai Nam Dang and Doi Phahompok (Mae Fang), four national parks in Chiang Mai.

Preecha said the department would also ask for cooperation from tour companies to inform guides and tourists about activities in national parks that harmed the environment.

The limit on visitors and the assistance of tourism operators in the management of national resources will lead to sustainable tourism, he added.

- The Nation

[jackr]

Nice work Meadish

Seen most of what Muang Thai has to offer in their parks and will refrain from visiting any again until I really feel the urge to shell out 500% over the odds, or perhaps when they see the light and make it 'contribution only'.

dual pricing is not exclusive to Thailand, in UK if you go to York, you pay for parking, the locals don't, when you go in the museums, it costs about a fiver, locals get in free. if you own a house in Florida USA you get reduced price concessions at all the theme parks. i am sure there are many more examples of dual pricing tourist/resident worldwide. its not just a Thai issue.

Duh. What a worthless point. I'm English, I don't come from York but I'd still have to pay for parking!

The way they do it here is to target an entire race not simply the locals of a specific area.

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

For those pondering the definition of racism, here is the definition from the United Nations Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Racial Discrimination. Thailand is a party to that convention.

"In this Convention, the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life."

There is an out for this specific instance in that a State is permitted to make a distinction between citizens and non-citizens so long as it is equally applied which is may not be in this instance given what was said earlier.

"This Convention shall not apply to distinctions, exclusions, restrictions or preferences made by a State Party to this Convention between citizens and non-citizens."

This exception does not apply to private organizations or companies like resturants, hotels, airlines, etc. Further, a State is required to:

"Each State Party shall prohibit and bring to an end, by all appropriate means, including legislation as required by circumstances, racial discrimination by any persons, group or organization;"

AND:

"States Parties condemn all propaganda and all organizations which are based on ideas or theories of superiority of one race or group of persons of one colour or ethnic origin, or which attempt to justify or promote racial hatred and discrimination in any form, and undertake to adopt immediate and positive measures designed to eradicate all incitement to, or acts of, such discrimination and, to this end, with due regard to the principles embodied in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the rights expressly set forth in article 5 of this Convention, inter alia:

(a) Shall declare an offence punishable by law all dissemination of ideas based on racial superiority or hatred, incitement to racial discrimination, as well as all acts of violence or incitement to such acts against any race or group of persons of another colour or ethnic origin, and also the provision of any assistance to racist activities, including the financing thereof;

(b ) Shall declare illegal and prohibit organizations, and also organized and all other propaganda activities, which promote and incite racial discrimination, and shall recognize participation in such organizations or activities as an offence punishable by law;

(c ) Shall not permit public authorities or public institutions, national or local, to promote or incite racial discrimination."

http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/d_icerd.htm

Edited December 2, 2007 by ChiangMaiAmerican

[parmi]

I recently visited a nat park in the Krabi area, i forget the name,but it had a waterfall(which had no water) and was about 30 to 45 mins out of ao nang beach area by motorcycle, they charged my thai gf 20bht to enter ,but being a farang i was charged 200 bht, and on top of that there was a sign saying 20 bht for motercycles, however after parking, the parking attendant started yelling that i had to pay 100 bht. So after a brief arguement with the gf and how i feel we are being ripped off just because of where we come from, i paid the 100bht and walked the few hundred metres to the waterfall, only to find that it was completly dry,why were we not told that it was dry after being taken for 300 + bht. i really think that some one needs to oversee these park employees to make sure 1, they are doing their jobs and 2, they are not pocketing the fees,

i really love the Krabi and ao nang area and in the last 9 yrs have spent some really nice times their and not to mention the hundreds of thousands of bht,and this will not stop me from returning, HOWEVER as far as nat parks go, i agree with other farang friends of mine that until the government can show me WHY FARANGS HAVE TO PAY SO MUCH MORE FOR THE VERY SAME EXPERIENCE AS THE THAIS WE TAKE WITH US, I WILL NO LONGER VISIT ANY PARKS.

NOT MY LOSE,BUT THE GOVERNMENTS. i thought the thai government had a soft spot for foreign travellers and needed the revenue, i guess i was wrong.

SORRY TO SAY, but border countries are looking more and more sweeter.

[enuff said]

A thorough job OP. I wish there was jouralism like that in America!

Speaking of which, imagine this happening in America. No way. But TIT.

.

Sorry ding, dual pricing occurs in many places in the USA. When I lived in Virginia, the county park was FREE for locals, visitors paid $7 dollars per car. Same in Pennsylvania. Locals pay $20 for a hunting license. Out of state $110, over 5 times the price. All PA state parks have a low price or free to residents and much higher fees for tourists. If you work for Walmart, you get a discount and first choice on sale items. No one seems upset about the fairness of these things in the USA. Different people are treated differently.

All the people complaining about dual pricing going on in Thailand should get out and see the world a bit and realize that it goes on everywhere. Considering all the other things that are very cheap and reasonable in Thailand, it seems silly to complain about this.

I see nothing wrong with Thai citizens paying a lower price than non-Thais.

'nuff said

~