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BANGKOK 20 May 2019 00:19
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Mikenmod

Dowry In Rural Issan

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After being a member here for 3 years, I'm too tired to present my views on this with as much zeal as I used to. But you can see my previous posts on this subject if you'd like. (Just search "dowry" and "siamesekitty")

To me, a Thai style wedding without a sinsod is like a farang-style wedding without a wedding ring. The rich and famous buy expensive rings with huge diamonds, the rest buy whatever's within their budget. It's part of the traditional ceremony and the ceremony would be kinda weird without it, but hey if you wanna have an incomplete wedding then who am I to argue?

Just see how well a Western woman would cope if you were to ask her for her hand in marriage and say "Well you know honey, I know I'm supposed to buy this ring for you and stuff, but since it's such an outdated custom and I don't see any sense in it, why don't we just get married without it? I mean, we can say our vows without a ring can't we? Besides, you'd look like a gold-digger if I were to present you with such a materialistic gift!"

Of course there are always some Thai women who would be willing to go along without a sinsod, such as there are probably some Western women who wouldn't mind not getting a ring. If your Thai girlfriend is fine with it then great, but just remember this is how she might feel.

*edit: maybe I've got "wedding ring" mixed with "engagement ring" or whatever, but you get my drift.

No where near to being the same situation! :o

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It is also about class as well. If someone can't find the money to marry someone then may be he is trying to marry out of his class and should look else where.

Love should transcend everything.

"You can't marry my daughter if you can't pay what I want" Disgusting!

Totally agree with you on that nick.

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It is also about class as well. If someone can't find the money to marry someone then may be he is trying to marry out of his class and should look else where.

Love should transcend everything.

"You can't marry my daughter if you can't pay what I want" Disgusting!

Totally agree with you on that nick.

Agreed. Only greedy families will want you to do that. See up, its not too hard to distingush

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They do say 'love is blind' I always wondered what the true meaning was :D

Despite the giggling emote :o

Have you more to add to this?, That is actually useful..........

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It is also about class as well. If someone can't find the money to marry someone then may be he is trying to marry out of his class and should look else where.

Love should transcend everything.

"You can't marry my daughter if you can't pay what I want" Disgusting!

Agree there...well here's my 2 bahts worth

We recently got married and a sinsod of 99,999 baht was agreed. My wife asked her father about sinsod prior to us getting married to which he replied, he didnt want one. The above figure was chosen because of the number 9 being lucky in Thailand. It was purely for show. He never gave it back to us on the quiet either but announced it during the wedding ceremony.

We gave it back to my parents who initially put up the sinsod, and they then returned it to us to pay for our honeymoon. Her father was happy that we received it either way.

She got a 2 baht necklace which she gave to her father and I paid for the whole wedding, costing roughly about 3k GBP.

Her father and family were simply happy that she would be taken care of for the rest of her life.

Incidently, he passed away 3 weeks later, which can be read about in this thread...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=161125

Guemlum

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"If you can't even raise a dowry how do you expect to look after my daughter?"

The answer might be "the same way you have raised her". Pulled her out of school at 12/13. because gambling took most of your money. Sent her to work for 50/60bt a day initially, then happily took all she could give you when she was 18 and went to work in a bar.

If a farang is flush with money, by all means pay a huge dowry, replace the family shack with a new house, buy motorcycles and pick-ups for the brothers. Additinal pigs and cows too. Why not? If that's what you want to do then do it VOLUNTARILY. Not as a pre-conditon of marriage.

With what most farangs are able to provide for the new wife, instead of the tradition of displaying hundreds of 1000bt notes at the wedding ceremony amongst the "oohs and ahs" of the villagers why not instead display photographs of the new home the daughter will live in (probably a hundred times more luxurious that that which she was brought up in), together with the health insurance policy, life assurance policies, pension agreements......................I could go on.

Most farangs are not rich - they appear to have more money than thir Thai counterparts, but just like the Thais, most are broke come the end of the month. But unlike most Thai people we use our money to good purposes, the welfare of the family and family home being the most important. In many cases there is no spare money to meet the requirements of the Thai parents' demand for huge dowries.

The origins of dowries here in Thailand began with the upper classes, and was a way for the man to show the girls family that he could give the new wife a lifestyle at least as good as that she had previously received. Money was shown, but never kept. Now sadly the greedy Isaan families see this as a way to clear their debts- sell the daughters and keep the cash!

Some farangs receive demands for 200 or even 300K as a requirement for marriage, often to a divorced former prostitutes, with kids in tow, and well past her sell-by date. Most Thai men would not entertain her, and any that would, would receive the families thanks for taking her of their hands. No payment required.

These demands for absurd amounts of cash are, in my view, nothing short of selling ones daughter, in the same way Tesco Lotus and Big C sell their products. It has a price - if you cannot pay it you cannot have it.

Perhaps the Isaan mothers should adopt the marketing strategies of Tesco Lotus and Big C. In return for the exhorbitant amounts of cash demanded they should offer the wife's pretty young sister as part of the package. BUY 1 - GET 1 FREE

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As i have said in my previous post i gave 200,000 bht for the traditional marriage of my thai partner. I would say the dowry is more than showmanship, but a compensation plan for the poor issan farmers girl for taking her away from her family. After all your taking away there source of income. I do agree if the family are wealthy then a dowry/compensation should be paid at the farangs discretion.I rest my case.

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Perhaps the Isaan mothers should adopt the marketing strategies of Tesco Lotus and Big C. In return for the exhorbitant amounts of cash demanded they should offer the wife's pretty young sister as part of the package. BUY 1 - GET 1 FREE

uh-oh :o

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The origins of dowries here in Thailand began with the upper classes, and was a way for the man to show the girls family that he could give the new wife a lifestyle at least as good as that she had previously received. Money was shown, but never kept.

Interesting information, which I hear for the first time.

Where did you get it?

I would be very much interested in the source of this information.

Best regards

Thedi

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Cannibalism used to be a tradition in Africa, but is no longer. Female Genital mutilation is still practiced in many backward countries where the inhabitants have no moral conscience, but is far less than it used to be.

Traditions and cultures change with time. It's high time sin sot was put to rest. In essence it is just for the parents to show off to their neighbours, but sadly many Isaan mothers refuse to return it. As other contributors have said it is nothing short of buying your wife. Disgraceful and demeaning.

I agree how could someone pay a lady (or man) to marry them. How many out there refused to pay, did they still get there wife

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It is also about class as well. If someone can't find the money to marry someone then may be he is trying to marry out of his class and should look else where.

Love should transcend everything.

"You can't marry my daughter if you can't pay what I want" Disgusting!

Totally agree with you on that nick.

Agreed. Only greedy families will want you to do that. See up, its not too hard to distingush

I agree it is disgusting but a lot of people are saying it is part of tradition. May be this is the case but when an older man or lady want to marry a much younger person then I call it buying a wife/husband

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Thank you to all the posters who understand the essence of it and have tried to explain it to others, as well as Totster for the link :D For those who have not read that thread, please do, especially the one about sinsod in its correct and proper context.

Maybe I should add that the views I expressed were with that context in mind. I view the sinsod rather as a role it plays in the ceremony. That is, display the sinsod on the golden plates, afterwards the groom's family takes it back or gives it to the couple. (*edit: this is for modern times)

I am not advocating, and in fact feel strongly against:

- loans that the couple will have to pay off

- a money-hungry family of the bride demanding a large amount of money be paid even if it's obvious the guy's family cannot afford it

- the bride's family refusing to let the couple get married without an amount of money actually changing hands

I'm thinking of sinsod in a wedding in the context of:

- The couple is truly in love with each other, and money is not the main driver of the relationship

- The couple consider each other equals

- The groom's family is financially secure enough to provide some amount, whether to give to the bride's family or to the newlyweds themselves.

- If the bride's family is to receive the

amount, there is probably some other gift that the bride's family is giving the couple already, which in several cases outweighs the amount of the sinsod itself even, such as land.

If the company is to be having a traditional Thai-style marriage, the sinsod should be shown. If you feel the need to do it the farang way, go for a Christian marriage in a church or something. People will understand that ceremonies are different and no show of sinsod is needed! (Better than having a incomplete "traditional" ceremony :o)

Upon further thought however, I've realized that maybe a lot of cases on this forum falls within the former situations rather than later, so perhaps my views on this would not apply to many here. They are probably more true for normal Thai/Thai relationships, or Thai/farang relationships in which the partners are considered equal, socially and financially. In such cases it is completely understood by everyone that the whole thing's just for show, no money need exchange hands unless it is into the couple's hands themselves.

If you are in an imbalanced relationship based upon monetary compensation, and there is clearly a demand, an ultimatum perhaps, for a payment before marriage, my advice here will be irrelevant and I advise you ignore it. If that is the case, I wish you luck. :D

Edited by siamesekitty

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The origins of dowries here in Thailand began with the upper classes, and was a way for the man to show the girls family that he could give the new wife a lifestyle at least as good as that she had previously received. Money was shown, but never kept.

Interesting information, which I hear for the first time.

Where did you get it?

I would be very much interested in the source of this information.

Best regards

Thedi

Read it on Stickman a year or so ago. You hould manage to track it down.

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