Dowry In Rural Issan

[ozzydom]

it works like this. paying a dowry is purchasing th e rights to a monthly stipend payable to same girls family. at least family know you are willing to take it on the chin, so to speak. only marrying farang has these rights..................lol. im just kidding.

my logic is man should be paid to take these maiden s off people who can ill afford them. just from a financial point of view

As in India.

[MISTERBONK]

As in India.

Equally improper - in a reverse way. Families sell to the highest bidder. Better to spend money in the bars and massage parlours. At the end of the day it's only sex when there is no love involved. With a paid for wife sex becomes very expensive when family overheads are included.

[cwkid]

Hello

My girl friend is Thai and was married to a farang in the past but unfortunately it didn't work out for them and they are divorced.

I met her here in England. We are planning to spend some time together in Thailand with her family for a year or so.

She says she wants to get married in England if we decide to tie the knot, but I think I'd prefer to be married in Thailand it will definitely be cheaper. Is one expected to pay a dowry in a traditional wedding if their daughter has been married before? Or would any money be used just for show at the ceremony? Any money I gave I would like returning to my Wife as a gift from me to her. Her family by all accounts seem quite well to do by most standards or thats the impression I get. She has a full education and a degree from a Thai University. She never sends any money home to the family which I thought was a little odd because she is close to them and calls them often on the phone. Her family often offer to send her money instead asking if she has enough etc. She is in her early thirties, we are nearly the same age only a few years between us. She has a young child already who I adore. My girl friend says she is with me because she loves me and not because of what money I might have, not that I have any money really. I'm just a regular joe who works hard to pays the bills and live.

I just don't want to upset anyone in her family and have them lose face but I also don't want to be taken advantage of. Its getting the balance right I feel.

Thanks for the advise.

Edited January 23, 2008 by cwkid

[yorkman]

Is one expected to pay a dowry in a traditional wedding if their daughter has been married before? Or would any money be used just for show at the ceremony? Any money I gave I would like returning to my Wife as a gift from me to her.

.......................

Its getting the balance right I feel.

Thanks for the advise.

You know the old saying. Opinions are like a***holes, everybody has one

But, NO it is not expected if she has been married before. It would however likely be much appreciated if you put it up for "show" at the wedding anyway. Your wife will be able to set this up no problems. Mine did and she was not married before!

That sounds like an excellent compromise and kudos to you for checking it out

[Thai at Heart]

In the past 2 years, I've heard many stories about Issan weddings. I've been warned by many who've left broken hearted and broke.

But I will tie the knot with a fine lady of 30, a graduate of Ubon Ratchisima University, who worked as a quality control specialist at cpk, earning 18K bhat per month, a decent salary. She's a virgin. Is that really possible? Are women like this real?

Knowing that many a farang has settled in Issan with their love, I'd appreciate your stories and advise. Especially about dowry, gold Bhat, and wedding costs. If Dad gets a dowry, is that it? Or am I expected to help the family with each "emergency"?

Maybe this issue has been discussed many times before, but I'm new to the Forum, and hope to hear some good stories. Mike

I payed dowry 105'000bht and gold for my wife nice village girl. I woud'nt care what anyone thinks if you want you pay dowry as respect, to her family. If I had more I would have given it. You love her then ask her how much she will help you to sort out with her parents what you can afford.I was only asked for half of what I payed. I just wanted my wife and her parents to be happy.

Keeping the in laws is a very important issue, but also is keeping yourself happy. If you are not able to explain any issues you may have either financially or emotionally about paying the level of sin sot expected of you, then there is a serious problem.

I paid a nominal amount because I was able to convince my in laws about my sincere belief against it. This takes a lot of time and real commitment. If you and your missus are sincere about what you are doing there is no reason why the figure shouldn't be nominal. There are a myriad of ways to put millions down in public just to return it the next day so everyone keeps face.

I have seen too many people follow the rules blindly because they don't understand the issue, and it has ended in tears. There is no reason to pay hundreds of thousands(I have seen multiple millions) if both participants are truly getting married in love and good faith.

[cwkid]

Is one expected to pay a dowry in a traditional wedding if their daughter has been married before? Or would any money be used just for show at the ceremony? Any money I gave I would like returning to my Wife as a gift from me to her.

.......................

Its getting the balance right I feel.

Thanks for the advise.

You know the old saying. Opinions are like a***holes, everybody has one

But, NO it is not expected if she has been married before. It would however likely be much appreciated if you put it up for "show" at the wedding anyway. Your wife will be able to set this up no problems. Mine did and she was not married before!

That sounds like an excellent compromise and kudos to you for checking it out

Excellent! Its sounds like things would happen as I imagined they might. Thanks.

[siamesekitty]

good advice yorkman

l

as I mentioned in an earlier post, I don't really advocate throwing large wads of money at the bride's family, I just think it's silly having a traditional Thai wedding without observing all the aspects of the ceremony!

[macduff]

and words like "transaction", "buy" clearly show the farang mentality..

I guess some of you guys just won't get it..

How about compensation especially if the thai lady is contributing to the family budget of a poor farmers daughter.

[siamesekitty]

I'm not a historian, and I haven't been born long enough to accurately comment on the origins and purpose of the custom, but in the modern sense that is not really what it's about. For me, all that's left of the custom that's obligatory is the showing part of the ceremony. But if there is to be a gift, it is to show GRATITUDE for them having raised such a wonderful daughter. And it should be given voluntarily, as a sincere thanks from the heart, not as a payment, not as a demand, but as a gift.

What I'm trying to say is that Thais will understand the sentimental feelings underlying gifts to the parents of one's significant other, to one's elders. Perhaps it is also important to note that in most usual Thai cases the groom's age is not too far apart from the bride's age, so he really does feel as if he is taking on another set of parents, which he will most likely respect and care for as if they were his own parents. And as with his own parents, a gift to show his gratitude would not be demanded, but respectfully and wholeheartedly given.

[yorkman]

I'm not a historian, and I haven't been born long enough to accurately comment on the origins and purpose of the custom, but in the modern sense that is not really what it's about. For me, all that's left of the custom that's obligatory is the showing part of the ceremony. But if there is to be a gift, it is to show GRATITUDE for them having raised such a wonderful daughter. And it should be given voluntarily, as a sincere thanks from the heart, not as a payment, not as a demand, but as a gift.

What I'm trying to say is that Thais will understand the sentimental feelings underlying gifts to the parents of one's significant other, to one's elders. Perhaps it is also important to note that in most usual Thai cases the groom's age is not too far apart from the bride's age, so he really does feel as if he is taking on another set of parents, which he will most likely respect and care for as if they were his own parents. And as with his own parents, a gift to show his gratitude would not be demanded, but respectfully and wholeheartedly given.

Thats exactly as I view it.

Any family that demands that you do this, is a family to beware of. In the modern sense it is carrying on tradition, showing respect for that tradition, and showing respect to the parents for bringing up a wonderful daughter. This is all for "show".

It is really easy unless you are a cultural numbskull about Thailand.

Ok. I will put up my example. Not as a better wife example but just how it is. My wife was single, and at first I had all the typical farang hangups about doing this, buying her..all that. Her family said "up to you, don't do it". I suspected they did not mean it.

I asked my wife, and she said "up to you", as they do. Again, I suspected she did not mean that, but was just considering my feelings.

I saw between the lines and it is just tradition; why on earth would you want your future inlaws to lose face at a happy wedding ceremony?

I put 100,000B into the gold pot, and the next day my wife sneaked it out from her parents house under her jacket straight back into OUR bank account.

That is how it works, unless you are silly, and want to throw 300,000B into a poor and doubtless greedy family.

Just respect the traditions.

[Jamie]

I'm not a historian, and I haven't been born long enough to accurately comment on the origins and purpose of the custom, but in the modern sense that is not really what it's about. For me, all that's left of the custom that's obligatory is the showing part of the ceremony. But if there is to be a gift, it is to show GRATITUDE for them having raised such a wonderful daughter. And it should be given voluntarily, as a sincere thanks from the heart, not as a payment, not as a demand, but as a gift.

What I'm trying to say is that Thais will understand the sentimental feelings underlying gifts to the parents of one's significant other, to one's elders. Perhaps it is also important to note that in most usual Thai cases the groom's age is not too far apart from the bride's age, so he really does feel as if he is taking on another set of parents, which he will most likely respect and care for as if they were his own parents. And as with his own parents, a gift to show his gratitude would not be demanded, but respectfully and wholeheartedly given.

Thats exactly as I view it.

Any family that demands that you do this, is a family to beware of. In the modern sense it is carrying on tradition, showing respect for that tradition, and showing respect to the parents for bringing up a wonderful daughter. This is all for "show".

It is really easy unless you are a cultural numbskull about Thailand.

Ok. I will put up my example. Not as a better wife example but just how it is. My wife was single, and at first I had all the typical farang hangups about doing this, buying her..all that. Her family said "up to you, don't do it". I suspected they did not mean it.

I asked my wife, and she said "up to you", as they do. Again, I suspected she did not mean that, but was just considering my feelings.

I saw between the lines and it is just tradition; why on earth would you want your future inlaws to lose face at a happy wedding ceremony?

I put 100,000B into the gold pot, and the next day my wife sneaked it out from her parents house under her jacket straight back into OUR bank account.

That is how it works, unless you are silly, and want to throw 300,000B into a poor and doubtless greedy family.

Just respect the traditions.

Silly? Your opinion, which really means little to me. Her family happens to be very nice so keep your insults to yourself. I gave the money freely because I wanted to help them. 300,000 Bht is a small amount of money to me. It's nothing compared to the cost of some of the women from these parts will cost you

not only in money, but in misery.

[yorkman]

Silly? Your opinion, which really means little to me. Her family happens to be very nice so keep your insults to yourself. I gave the money freely because I wanted to help them. 300,000 Bht is a small amount of money to me. It's nothing compared to the cost of some of the women from these parts will cost you

not only in money, but in misery.

Sorry? I was responding, as you can see from the quotation, to siamesekitty.

Something seems to have struck a raw nerve

[Jamie]

Silly? Your opinion, which really means little to me. Her family happens to be very nice so keep your insults to yourself. I gave the money freely because I wanted to help them. 300,000 Bht is a small amount of money to me. It's nothing compared to the cost of some of the women from these parts will cost you

not only in money, but in misery.

Sorry? I was responding, as you can see from the quotation, to siamesekitty.

Something seems to have struck a raw nerve

Yes, that is why you specifically used 300,000 bht. Whatever.

[siamesekitty]

I'm sure yorkman wasn't specifically referring to your case, Jamie. or if he was he probably meant giving it because you like them, not because they were greedy and demanding it.

[siamesekitty]

Let me just add with a view on how the custom pertains to me, as a "normal" Thai woman. When (or rather, if, ) my time comes around, and I decide to have a Thai wedding, there will definitely be a sinsod at the ceremony.

If I marry a Thai, this will not be an issue, because HE WILL ALREADY UNDERSTAND THE CUSTOMS. In fact, if I insisted that we don't have it he'd probably look at me a bit weird.

And nobody, whether it is me, him, my family, or his family, would think he would be buying me, hel_l no! My family and I are doing quite well on our own, and the thought of money being a payment of any sorts would be repulsive to all involved.

If I were to marry a farang, and we were to have a farang-style ceremony in farangland, the sinsod issue wouldn't even come up.

But if I were to marry a farang, and we were to have a Thai ceremony, there would be a sinsod. My parents probably wouldn't keep it though, even if it was given to them as a gift, as they always have my best interests in mind and would probably tell me to keep it for my new family.

If the farang doesn't have much money, or if he just doesn't understand (I sincerely hope it would be former, as the latter would be heartbreaking for me) my parents would most likely provide the sinsod themselves, for the ceremony, as has been done in several cases when relatives have married men "below" them. That would be the case if I were to marry a bahtless Thai as well. Although we would keep this to ourselves and no one else would have to know, I would secretly be a bit embarassed myself that my parents would have to do this. But it would have to be there anyway, no matter where it came from and where it would go, because it's part of the frickin' ceremony!

A farang that refuses to have any sinsod at the wedding, even for show, is setting himself to be seen as disrespectful of customs, although the more understanding families will know that it's because he is just ignorant of the underlying sentiments behind the gesture. If he excuses his actions with "I don't have enough money", he runs the risk of being seen as stingy (if they know he isn't poor), or a "farang khee nok", a lower-class farang (if they believe him).

Do you want to be "victorious", having stuck to your beliefs and "won" - but have people snickering behind your back? Or would you rather start off your marriage with a smooth, auspicious wedding and smiles of approval?

But as I said in one of my previous posts, please feel free to ignore this if you feel your circumstances are not those of a "normal" loving relationship. If it was true love, you'd understand. And if it was true love, you wouldn't have been "demanded" the sinsod.

But if you refuse to think of the custom as anything other than "payment", "compensation", or a "purchase", there's a chance your relationship was going that way anyway, and no advice I can give you regarding Thai customs could help change that.

[MISTERBONK]

For me, all that's left of the custom that's obligatory is the showing part of the ceremony. But if there is to be a gift, it is to show GRATITUDE for them having raised such a wonderful daughter.

But if I were to marry a farang, and we were to have a Thai ceremony, there would be a sinsod. My parents probably wouldn't keep it though, even if it was given to them as a gift, as they always have my best interests in mind and would probably tell me to keep it for my new family.

A farang that refuses to have any sinsod at the wedding, even for show, is setting himself to be seen as disrespectful of customs,

Thank you siamesekitty for giving us a Thai womans perspective on this hot topic. I think your way would be more than an acceptable compromise for those of us who dislike the whole concept of sinsod. I think most farangs would be happy to go along with the custom of showing money (regardless of amount) providing it was returned afterwards. As I have said previously not all farangs have money to hand around. Many farangs come here to Thailand having gone through painful divorces in their home country, have lost everything, including any savings they may have had, and are probably having to pay alimony and child maintenance for years to come. What little money is left, or what they may be receiving in pensions they hope is enough to be able to provide a reasonable lifestyle for themselves and their new lady love. If they are forced to hand over a significant amount to the future in-laws, then their lifestyle may well be less than they desire.

Sadly not all families will go along with returning sinsod. Indeed in my experience of weddings (Thai/Thai or Thai/farang) most not only insist on keeping it, but refuse to let their daughter marry at all if their initial requirements are not met.

But I would also like to pass comment on one phrase you used "it is to show GRATITUDE for them having raised such a wonderful daughter." Isn't that just a bit one sided? Shouldn't the girls parents be showing gratitude to the farang for giving their daughter the prospect of a future they could only dream about. The possibility of a home in farangland, or a nice home somewhere in Thailand, with any children given a good education. Perhaps (as in many cases) the farang has removed the girl from the bar scene, where but for him she might well remain for many more years, age quickly and subject herself to the possibility of all sorts of diseases.

Gratitude works both ways you know!

[Jamie]

For me, all that's left of the custom that's obligatory is the showing part of the ceremony. But if there is to be a gift, it is to show GRATITUDE for them having raised such a wonderful daughter.

Many farangs come here to Thailand having gone through painful divorces in their home country, have lost everything, including any savings they may have had, and are probably having to pay alimony and child maintenance for years to come. What little money is left, or what they may be receiving in pensions they hope is enough to be able to provide a reasonable lifestyle for themselves and their new lady love. If they are forced to hand over a significant amount to the future in-laws, then their lifestyle may well be less than they desire.

But I would also like to pass comment on one phrase you used "it is to show GRATITUDE for them having raised such a wonderful daughter." Isn't that just a bit one sided? Shouldn't the girls parents be showing gratitude to the farang for giving their daughter the prospect of a future they could only dream about.The possibility of a home in farangland, or a nice home somewhere in Thailand, with any children given a good education. Perhaps (as in many cases) the farang has removed the girl from the bar scene, where but for him she might well remain for many more years, age quickly and subject herself to the possibility of all sorts of diseases.

Gratitude works both ways you know!

So...Which is it?

[katana]

...When (or rather, if, ) my time comes around, and I decide to have a Thai wedding...

Not married yet?

Several male board members' ears prick up in interest...

[TexasRanger]

600,000 Bt + 10 Baht Gold

[yorkman]

But I would also like to pass comment on one phrase you used "it is to show GRATITUDE for them having raised such a wonderful daughter." Isn't that just a bit one sided? Shouldn't the girls parents be showing gratitude to the farang for giving their daughter the prospect of a future they could only dream about. The possibility of a home in farangland, or a nice home somewhere in Thailand, with any children given a good education.

Gratitude works both ways you know!

I see she has not come back to you on this one. I think it was explained very well too but you do, with all respect, seem to have missed the point.

Just forget, for now, all the stuff about how sinsot started etc etc, its barely relevent these days now anyway

I do know why it grates to a farang, it's the concept of buying a wife, not so, but put put that to one side for now.

What you have here is a tradition, and that is it. It is a tradition that sinsot is shown at the wedding, but equally importantly its is tradition that "it is to show GRATITUDE for them having raised such a wonderful daughter." . In the older days there were more practical issues, but that is what is left. It also makes the family look good, the old "face" issue, but mainly it is tradition.

Yes, agreed, you may well be in practice bringing more into the relationship, but for these purposes that is irrelevent. If you don't afterwards find that her family accept you into their family, and you get "payback" in many many other ways, then maybe they are wronguns. If they demand money over considerations of the welfare of their daughter they definately are. People around the world are, in many ways, the same.

You do say, I think, that it is your experience that it is usually kept. Well my experience is the opposite, and there are no real stats to prove it one way or another are there, and in any case who outside the family really knows?

In my case all her familys village think they kept it! But they did'nt

This is one of these emotive issues, that after you are married and realise that it is not, in the vast majority of cases, some orchestrated sting operation by the "greedy thais", fades into insignificance.

It is one of those things that you just need to go with the flow with in Thailand (like a dead fish ) and dont think of boosting your own ego by throwing silly amounts at it at the risk of looking really stupid in the view of many Thai.

Is that a better (or rather, more amplified) explanation?

[MISTERBONK]

Is that a better (or rather, more amplified) explanation?

We could all go on ad nauseam with this post. Everyone holds a different viewpoint, and probably at the end of the day there is no one definitive answer. We must each do what we want and believe to be correct, regardless of the consequences.

I am of course fully aware of customs and traditions here in Thailand and know that probably nothing is going to change these in the forseable future - certainly not the disparaging views of farangs - some of whom, shall we say, find them somewhat strange and at variance to our own culture.

The good thing is that through this forum we are all able to put forward our points of view, and for the most part, despite our different perspectives, we can discuss them in an adult way without becoming objectionable towards one another.

[Jamie]

Is that a better (or rather, more amplified) explanation?

We could all go on ad nauseam with this post. Everyone holds a different viewpoint, and probably at the end of the day there is no one definitive answer. We must each do what we want and believe to be correct, regardless of the consequences.

I am of course fully aware of customs and traditions here in Thailand and know that probably nothing is going to change these in the forseable future - certainly not the disparaging views of farangs - some of whom, shall we say, find them somewhat strange and at variance to our own culture.

The good thing is that through this forum we are all able to put forward our points of view, and for the most part, despite our different perspectives, we can discuss them in an adult way without becoming objectionable towards one another.

I agree with you on this point

[yorkman]

I am of course fully aware of customs and traditions here in Thailand and know that probably nothing is going to change these in the forseable future - certainly not the disparaging views of farangs - some of whom, shall we say, find them somewhat strange and at variance to our own culture.

Exactly

[Lickey]

Update, german marries local girl, pays 250k dowry, nothing back, gives her 8 bht gold, pays 100k to modenise house ect, her father has a new walking tractor, Man wants to come see his wife, she says no, i have another man now, Please for your own sake be judgemental and careful, can save a lot of heartache later on,

[redwooddrive]

In my case I didn't pay anything in 2003. It was a second marriage for both of us and we had a child together in 2002. That said, we did pay about 30,000 baht for a party for the village after we married. I also built a house for us in the village about the same time. Her brother, sister and brother in law were part of the construction crew. So they got about 5k a month (full time workers) for the 12 months of construction. Her parents never said a word about sin sot. My wife said building the house was a guarantee of sorts (i.e. I couldn't pickup the house and take it away...) Haven't regretted it at all so far.

[blizzard]

building a house in the village beats sin sod any day.

[MikeRay]

My niece will marry a farang soon. No dowry for the parents, but 5 Baht Gold for her. But farang will pay for the ceremony and send 100€ a month for mom and dad untill niece will be able to work.Niece is 20 yo, farmers girl but with qualifications of Goethe Institut, BKK. Speaks some German and quite good English. It´s 100000 Baht to show off at the ceremony,but they can keep the money.

Please don´t apply as she found someone herself already

[blizzard]

100 euros a month for parents sound like they got a good deal......lol.

what happens when niece gets work? farang is off the hook?

wheres the incentive for girl to get work? it seems she would do better to get a higher edukation, im assuming goth institut is no ramkaenghaeng uni............lol.

am i missing something or what. why would anyone want the girl? its the farang who the farm girls would cherish. he agree to support ma and pa indefinately.

never mind i really dont understand the previous post..................lol.

Edited February 1, 2008 by blizzard

[MikeRay]

I don´t understand the guy either, but that ain´t my business as it´s not my money. She couldn´t afford UNI education, neither her parents. The farang is a nice bloke, not much elder than her. I just wanted to come up with some figures, but it isn´t Issan but SaKeao.

[keithsimmonds]

A farang (62) paid last year 300K for a girl (29) which he met in Pattaya with daughter from Kalsin.

Unbelievable.

Yea, I thought the same......but.....if he's happy.........his money......maybe pocket-change to him.

I'd never do it though.

hi im getting married in may of this year,my future wife who is 25years old,asked for 200k i thought this was quite reasonable as she and i know of at least 3 other couples who gave between 500k-800k. she tells me that the 200k is for her mum to pay for everything to do with the wedding and what ever is left over,she told her mum to sell the wood in her house and build a smaller house for her mum dad and youger sister to live in.we are having a house built should be finished soon, it will be just for my wife and her daughter,forgive my pronunciation it is in a small village called bong khun phet, 40km from thepsathip and 70km from chaiyaphum and i cant wait ,im the only white guy for miles, and everyone likes me, i could be the local atm for the village but that did not hapen in the three months i lived there last year. my future wife is very good with money and i trust her. i hope im not posting some sad story in years to come, but hey thats life and shit happens.