3 Estonian men involved in violence on Pattaya Walking Street

[samjaidee]

A terrible incident and even though Pattaya is not a fair representative of Thailand , it is something for those who keep slagging off the UK as a hellhole, something to pontificate over.

RIP

Why would anyone want to talk in a pompous or dogmatic about this incident. I suspect pontificate was not the word you were looking for. Use words you know the meaning of not words you think you know the meaning of.

[jdinasia]

The incident, which is now a murder investigation, occurred only meters away from the Tourist Police Unit.

So the guys didn't want to go in the bar, the Thais got hostile, the guys make a complaint and are told to take it to the police station.

Basically a big FO.

The guys get angry and return to sort it out themselves as they see that the authorities aren't interested.

They are outnumbered 5 to 1, viciously beaten and one murdered within metres of the Tourist police point and no one is held responsible.

What a f@cking sick country Thailand has turned into.

You can try and rationalise it or compare it with other countries problems, but this is an all time low.

umm did we read the same article? the THREE Estonians went back to deal with the ONE Thai guy, that's 3:1 ... THEN the numbers change the other way ...

[rocky]

Within the last 7 days I witnessed one single man being beaten by 5 or more Thais in the exact location Walking street soi 15 at about 1am. What worried me most is that I hung around for several minutes and not one Police officer arrived on the scene.

I witnessed the savage repeating kicking and punching from Thai men to one western man’s head.

No matter what the western man had done, he did not deserve that, infact if he had been badly behaved, the police could have been called to sort him inline with Thai law, not what he received walking street law.

In the end the Thai people will lose. Families and real tourists would have bared witness, even if the Thai police do nothing, the west had seen and now talks.

Shame on you Thailand.

Keep it up and you will get what you are asking for. People will really see who you are.

[esprit]

Considering the high proportion of dross that frequents Pattaya why do people continue to be surprised by these events ? After all not to walk away as one poster has already said speaks volumes. Whilst no civilised person could condone the outcome it does illustrate the perverse attraction to some of that place. On the bright side of course it does illustrate that not all Estonians are in the UK, working illegally for less than the minimum wage there as one is led to believe.

[Mason45]

You can try and rationalise it or compare it with other countries problems, but this is an all time low.

I agree - Walking Street is a sleazy place.

WELL, I BEG TO DIFFER. I LIVED/WORKED HERE (PATTAYA) FOR 16 YEARS AND ALWAYS TAKE FRIENDS/FAMILY VISITING FROM OVERSEAS DOWN TO THE WALKING STREET. WE ALWAYS COME AWAY WITH PAIN IN OUR CHEEK-MUSCLES FROM LAUGHING.

IT'S A FUNNY PLACE; A TRUE STUDY IN HUMAN BEHAVIOUR, BUT I WOULD NOT CALL IT A "SLEAZY" PLACE. BESIDES: WHAT ARE YOU COMPARING IT TO ? ? ?

YOU WANNA DO "SLEAZY" GO AND HAVE A LOOK AT THE RHEPERBAHN IN GERMANY, OR THE RED-LIGHT-DISTRICT IN AMSTERDAM !

SO MR. "JIMMY-THE-MOOK" THINK AGAIN, OKAY - BEFORE YOU INSULT TOTALLY INNOCENT PEOPLE (AND/OR THEIR CITY-PARTS) OF BEING "SLEAZY".

BTW: "THE MOOK" SOUND PRETTY CLASSY TO ME . . . . . . . . . . . DUUUUH !

There's nothing wrong with Pattaya but have you ever noticed when reading Pattaya newspapers that Thai people who are arrested for criminal activity are never Pattaya residents, in 99% of cases they are scum bag punks from up north venturing to Pattaya to make quick money. It's about time Pattaya police had a data base, have random ID checks and when someone is apprehended in Pattaya they must give there name and address and must show how they support themselves in Pattaya, if the police aren't satified send them back to where they come from like the way they treat illegal immigrants from Laos. If these same people are apprehended again in Pattaya and are found to have no lawful means to support themselves then they should be given a mandatory sentence of one years jail and any further such breeches the penalty doubles, Pattaya would become a fun place for holiday makers again in no time.

[skettios]

In the USA it is daily routine and nobody complain .

I would never say it's daily routine. We tend to just shoot people, instead of bleeding them with a broken bottle. The difference in the U.S. is that the cops would have something to say about this, instead of just a bunch of people on a forum.

For some reason I doubt you've been there.

[moskito]

WHAT THE hel_l IS GOING ON HERE ????

a TOURIST died ?? in the middle of a busy street ? SO WHAT ??????

in 2 days NOBODY will talk about it anymore and business is same as usual

Things will NEVER CHANGE here, and for sure not in the better direction....help to post things like this "accident " in your Farang Newspapers in Europe Australia and Amerika, maybe then THEY wake up......

remember the poor two dead russian girls shoot in the early morning hours directly on Pattaya Beach?? who is talking about them anymore? are arrests made? does the police work changed since then??

my condolences to the familys of the Estonian

[koheesti]

In the USA it is daily routine and nobody complain .

Not really. But when it does, someone goes to jail for murder or manslaughter and the bar gets sued for a whole lotta money. How often does either of that happen here?

[thaihigh]

rude comments removed

/admin

[Mobi]

Walking Street is a notorious red light district that attracts sex tourists and perverts from all parts of the world. The place is teaming with whores, pimps, drug addicts, thieves, muggers, pick pockets, scam artists and violent criminals, many carrying knives or guns.

Areas such as these, be they in Los Angeles, Berlin, Hamburg, Amsterdam or wherever are going to be dangerous places to be if you cross the locals.

I am not defending what happened, and maybe if it had occurred elsewhere the thugs might have used a bit more restraint to ensure they didn’t have a murder on their hands. But this is a 3^rd world country, where the police are in league with the criminals and corruption rules.

So frankly what else could you expect if a few foreigners decided to take on the locals? The result was inevitable, and would be so almost anywhere in the world in similar circumstances in a similar environment.

Walking Street is a cesspit, and if you decide to enter the pit you have to be prepared for the possible outcome. There are plenty of decent places in Thailand where you can walk around and enjoy life in relative safety.

RIP to the unfortunate victim

[westcoastnative]

These guys let their tempers get the best of them and made the mistake of going back and picking a fight with the Thais. Thinking that young Thais are going to fight fair is a mistake. Thais fight to win, they don't fight to be fair. To be fair to the Thais, this could have happened here in the U.S. as well. I always believe if you aren't in your element it's best to just swallow your pride and move on. You live longer that way. It has been said that, "Those that fight and run away, Live to fight another day".

Edited January 22, 2008 by westcoastnative

[pattyboy]

Britmaveric beat me to it on this one. I don't understand why everybody is slagging the Thais.

This was NOT an unprovoked attack, these idiots decided to go back to take them on, and got what any reasonable person over here would expect.

Yes they are cowards, and yes 5 on one is the norm, but would you go looking for a fight in any other foreign country and not expect the locals to back each other up?

Touché.

It's amazing how many people decide to leave their common sense at home when they vacation abroad. It's like they have some magical "travel karma" that will protect them from any harm.

As sweetchariot points out, 5 on 1 is cowardly but also the norm when it comes to Thai fights. This is the real type of info that embassies should tell their countrymen.

[Wonderboy]

Well, awful incident though this was, things like this happen every weekend in most major cities in the UK. Thailand's got a long way to go before it catches up with the UK.

So if UK is worse, then it doesn't deserve any attention? Hardly anything in the UK deserves an eyebrow as Columbia is worse, right?

Anyway, according to Wikipedia the murder rate of Thailand is 8.47 and UK 2.03. Given the way Thai police write off murders as suicides, people just goes missing and general corruption/willingness to sweep things under the carpet, I would think the real Thai murder rate is much higher even. Open your eyes! Murders dont get much coverage in the press here. Maybe that is why you think you are living in a safe country.

Pretty ironic, many westerners think Thailand is safe. Thais do not. I wonder who have the better understanding?

Wonderboy

[stevenl]

Where does the conclusion that the police were not interested come from? Is it not so that in nearly every country a statement has the be made at the police station, so it makes sense to me that that is where they were sent to.

Back home the same things happen quite often, some people are not happy with something and go back to get their right, and they do get beaten up in comparable environments (sleazy areas of town), and are always outnumbered by the locals. Why would they give anyone a fair fight, that is not what these kind of people offer, all over the world.

[meadow]

A very sad story. Does anyone know what bar they were being ushered into? I would have thought it would be fairly straight forward to arrest the touts at the bar concerned and get one of them to talk. It sounds like they don't want justice. I wonder how the story is being reported in Estonia.

The reports are controversial, but one thing is clear - the guy who was supposedly killed, is alive and well at the hospital. I'm surprised no one has picked this up yet..

[spicypete]

lets be realistic... Pattaya is a den of iniquity, a brothel dressed up so families can fool themselves into feeling as if they are in some resort area. we all must take responsibility for ourselves and not put ourselves in harms way. I have been to Thailand many times, including Pattaya, and i have been threatened and nearly assaulted 5 times. 4 of those times were by Farang who were drunk. only 1 time was by a drunk Thai man. And may i point out, 3 of the 4 times i was threatened by Farang, they were of Russian decent.

So, 3 men of Russian decent (Estonian) decide to fight some Thai men, ....hmmmmmm.... i cant say they deserve to die, however if they had just enjoyed themselves and moved onto the next bar rather than having a few more drinks and acting like they are tough guys and going back to fight the Thai men, maybe we would not be reading about them and all three would still be enjoying their vacation.

perhaps the reason i have never actually been assaulted in Thailand is because i dont play games and tease the girls or tease the touts, and i dont act like the rich Farang, i smile a lot, i am nice and friendly, i dont wear jewelry there, and i have learnt to understand the saying "mai pen rai khrap" (no problem), and i have learnt several polite thai phrases... "excuse me", "thank you", "no thankyou", etc... and i dont go to places that are unsafe, i dont get too drunk, i dont do drugs, and i have learnt to walk away when i see problems starting.

the fact is, some people attract trouble, they look for trouble, they create trouble... so lets not put down Thai people or Thai society because 3 men who were looking for a fight with some Thai men, found a fight with Thai men. we must accept that we will live with the consequences of our actions, so lets act more appropriately.

And one last point... one of the times i was nearly assaulted, i was in Pattaya, on soi diamond, i had just had knee surgery and was wearing a knee brace and had visible scars and over 60 stitches in my leg, and 3 very tall Farang men were wrestling and drinking at the neighboring bar (beside the carousel bar) and the three men were bumping into people and they got close to me and i asked politely with a smile, "gentlemen, please be careful, i have just had knee surgery". the biggest man, about 280lbs, 6'6" tall, decided he would slap me around and tell me to mind my own business.... and before he could actually touch me, three Thai men came to help me. i did not now the Thai men, but they had seen me walking down the street a few times and I remember smiling at them and politely saying “no thankyou” when they asked me to enter their gogo bar . the very big man backed off and left me alone once it became clear many more Thai men were just steps away from joining in to protect me. All i can say is, there are good and bad in all countries... and i have had the honour of seeing the good side of Thailand much more than i have ever seen the bad.

[moo9]

The reports are controversial, but one thing is clear - the guy who was supposedly killed, is alive and well at the hospital. I'm surprised no one has picked this up yet..

Your source please?

[aqua4]

Wow lots of US bashing in this thread with the usual apologists.

Yes it happens in the US. We know the US is almost the size of Pattaya. Yes it happens in Amsterdam, tourists being killed and nobody is found. We all know that Amsterdam is the size of Pattaya too. Yes in your hometown tourists are stabbed and killed every other week at your local bar. At least we know what sorts you hang with. Yes he died near where the tourist police volunteers hang out on Walking Street and they pointed them to the cop shop to lay a charge. What is their purpose in any event? Thought they solved tourist problems. We know! We know! Who cares!

When we try and justify murder, attempted murder or manslaughter with it happens everywhere - then we are a slippery slope to stupidity. If you are willing to give up a bit of your security for a bit of 'freedom' then frankly you deserve neither.

Edited January 22, 2008 by aqua4

[koheesti]

On the bright side of course it does illustrate that not all Estonians are in the UK, working illegally for less than the minimum wage there as one is led to believe.

You're confusing Estonians and Lithuanians. BTW - not long ago an Estonian girl living and working in London was raped and murdered. So, it does show that foreigners living abroad do become targets like an

[meadow]

The reports are controversial, but one thing is clear - the guy who was supposedly killed, is alive and well at the hospital. I'm surprised no one has picked this up yet..

Your source please?

If you read Estonian.. http://www.ekspress.ee/2008/01/21/eesti-uu...ne-koik-on-elus

The guys involved contacted the biggest weekly newspaper in Estonia and said all are alive. This was confirmed by an Estonian who lives in Pattaya and visited the guy at the hospital.

Their story contradicts the report in Pattaya media of course.. (not implying anything on either party by the way)

[rafval]

I thought that was the nature of fights, thats why I avoid them, if you deliberately start one you take the chance of getting hurt, you only have yourself to blame, I dont see why these guys get any sympathy, and on top of that if it was the thais that had gone back to fight the forum would be complaining about how thais lose face too easily, seems that we think its ok when farang lose face too easily because we have a different name for it

[Roachiebkk]

I agree - Walking Street is a sleazy place.

Well, I beg to differ. Think again, okay - before you insult totally innocent people (and/or their city-parts) of being "sleazy".

Wow! Innocent you say? The whole 15 poor innocent Thai souls who don't know where to stop the violence. Poor boys

[eagleflyinghigh]

I would say 95%, absolutely hate foreigners.

The big issue in Thailand today is: How to get the "farang" money without the "farang" being physically present . Tricky - isn't it!

But even being a really ugly third world country by now (with an apparently smiling face) - they will be able to sort this out too.....

[Tammi]

What did theTourist Police do? Did they try to stop it?

[advice]

Well its unfortunate for the estonian man, but pretty stupid behaviour on their part. They go back and decided to fight??? Logic says I am a foreigner in another country, perhaps not good idea to do such a thing.

Anyways - stupid behaviour in Thailand can cost you quite dearly - you want trouble you will certainly find it in spades.

I have read your posts for a few years now and you constantly go on about the foreign side being in the wrong. You work offshore and are here now and again.. You live a fly in and have a good time type thing and then fly out, so you are not a true judge of people living here daily.

The Thais are in the wrong for a killing a man, so why not at least bring that up in your "this is Thailand" speel that you seem to cling to. The day you actually live here, your perception of the place will change.

Life aint that sunny day to day and at the end of the day, the foreigners were treated poorly because they changed their minds about going into a place. The should not have gone back granted, but they didnt deserve to die.

Defender of the Realm = Pfffff

[arco27]

all this just proves to me why Pattaya is my least favorite place in Thailand, last time I was there 6 years ago a friend of mine got pick-pocketed and we where harassed by far to many "doormen", so I don't ever want to go back there, I guess my bath where just not good enough for the greedy people that run Pattaya

[moo9]

Walking Street is a cesspit, and if you decide to enter the pit you have to be prepared for the possible outcome. There are plenty of decent places in Thailand where you can walk around and enjoy life in relative safety.

RIP to the unfortunate victim

There I have to contradict. Except for the smaller street crimes (pickpockets etc.), there are usually no serious incidents in WS. IMHO it is not the "cesspit" as you mention it. By far the possible outcome is more a pleasant, entertaining evening than getting beaten up by a Thai gang.

I saw before only one incident, when a farang got beaten up by Thai guys, but he was such a drunken bastard attacking them before, probably because he has been kicked out of a bar.

Cheers

Moo9

[Claymore]

Pattaya city News

monday 21st January 2008

So many missing things about this story. Pattaya City News is run by a Tourist Police Volunteer so I thought me might have got a better account.

If these Estonians complained to the Tourist Police the tourist police should have accompanied them to the bar to sort out the problem.That's what they do in Patpong. (although I understand the same problems recurr time and time again).

Pattaya City News does not even name the show bar. No surprise here.

[moo9]

If you read Estonian.. http://www.ekspress.ee/2008/01/21/eesti-uu...ne-koik-on-elus

The guys involved contacted the biggest weekly newspaper in Estonia and said all are alive. This was confirmed by an Estonian who lives in Pattaya and visited the guy at the hospital.

Their story contradicts the report in Pattaya media of course.. (not implying anything on either party by the way)

Very strange, but I can't read it.....

Would be interesting now to know the real story!

[bino]

Where does the conclusion that the police were not interested come from? Is it not so that in nearly every country a statement has the be made at the police station, so it makes sense to me that that is where they were sent to.

If the tourist police were truly interested in a statement, they could have taken one on the spot. If for some unknown reason the statement had to be made at the central station, one of them could have taken the complainant there, or sent one of the numerous "volunteers" that you see on walking street to the station with him.

Instead, the complainant got a "We can't help you. You have to go the police station." Definitely sounds like a "not interested" or as another poster put it, a big FO.

Having said that, the Estonians were foolish to go back and re-aggrivate the situation. They should have just blown it off and gone to the next bar / gotten on with their holiday.