Thailand's English-speaking Dilemma

[george]

Thailand's English-Speaking Dilemma

BANGKOK: -- Considering that Thailand has been getting 11 million foreign tourists every year, and the service sector is so strong and well run, it is difficult to understand why very few Thais speak English.

Agreed that the tourists who visit the country are from different parts of the world, including Europe, Japan and South Korea, but on the whole most travellers speak some English, as it has become the universal language.

Another puzzling fact is that even though young Thais listen to Western music and love Western fashions, they don't feel the need to be able to communicate in English.

A friend of mine, Deepak, who has lived here for 9 years, describes a scene that took place at a Bangkok department store some years ago. She had a guest from Singapore, and they went shopping at the store.

Her guest needed help finding something, but the salesgirls could not understand her, so, much to Deepak's embarrassment, her guest started asking the girls a little heatedly, "How come you don't speak English?"

The polite salesgirls looked at each other, giggled a bit and then one of them said, "No need." Deepak was delighted with the reply, as it shut her guest up.

I agree with Deepak that one must be sensitive to the culture and traditions of a land, and one should not demand English of salespeople, but I can't help wondering if this attitude of "no need" may, in the long run, affect the marketability of the many bright, young Thais I meet.

Already it seems to me that they are losing out on prime jobs available in the many multinational companies that are located here. Since there aren't enough English-speaking Thais, most of the higher-end jobs are taken by Indians, Chinese or Westerners.

A few months ago, my husband's company advertised for Thai engineers and salespeople who could speak English. There were many resumes, but few qualified, because even though they professed to know English, they could not communicate or write well enough to be considered for a job where fluency in English was required.

The company hired Roongrat, a bright, young Thai who was an English major from Dhurakijpundit University. What made this young man different? Why had he chosen to do an English major? I decided to find out.

Roongrat studied in a government school. He told me that English was taught in both private and government schools in Thailand, but private schools had more money, so could afford better teachers and equipment (like sound labs, where students listen to English being spoken).

But despite the fact that children were taught English in school, it was just a few classes a week, and most students were not proficient in the language when they left.

"The reason for this is that we don't use English in everyday life, and most children are shy about trying to speak, because they feel that they will pronounce words incorrectly," he said.

After finishing school, while his friends took up accounting and engineering, he chose a career path that made English skills necessary. He decided he wanted to study international trade in university, and for this he had to do four years of English.

Roongrat said that when he was growing up, the Ministry of Education did not put much emphasis on English.

This is because all jobs, whether in the government or in the private sector, required only Thai speaking skills, so there was little incentive to learn English. Thai companies would hire perhaps one or two people to head exports, where English was necessary.

"It's changed now," he said, "Prime Minister Thaksin has emphasised that a higher standard of English should be taught in schools, along with information technology."

"Attitudes are also changing," said Roongrat. "My friends think highly of me because I work for an international company, and although they can't speak English, they're making sure their children learn."

I asked Virat, the manager of our apartment building, how she came to be fluent in English. She told me that in her school, even English grammar was taught in Thai, and it was difficult to learn how to speak, because her friends and parents spoke only Thai. She majored in psychology in university, but that was also taught in Thai.

She felt she could not get a good job unless she studied English, so she went to an English-medium secretarial school.

"We had to learn bookkeeping, typing and other secretarial skills, all in English, and the first year was really difficult," she said.

"We had teachers from India and Singapore, and their different accents were difficult to understand." She had to study really hard to keep up.

"I think that people who know English have an advantage, and we have more schools and institutions now with bilingual programs. My 15-year-old daughter, Beaut, has gone to America for a year on a student-exchange program," said Virat.

Bilingual education has become increasingly important, and with proper government backing and parental guidance, Thai children need not have a difficult time learning a second language; they merely have to start young.

In India, even though literacy levels are much lower, bilingual education starts at age 5, and most jobs demand fluency in at least two languages.

It has helped the country get ahead in the field of information technology and also made it easier for its people to compete successfully in an international environment.

Thailand can do just as well if its young people are given the same motivation.

--The Nation/ANN 2004-09-14

[eljeque]

Another reason that English is neither pushed hard, nor pursuesd is because it is not "Thai," in a cultural sense, not just a lingual one.

The linguists on the board can improve this statement a great deal.

The grammar of a language is the sturcture that people use to perceive reality.

I do not belive that Thais actually want to perceive reality the same way as English speaking people do. Now, English speaking people do not want to perceive reality in the same way that Thais do, either.

The same goes for English and German speaking people versus French, Spanish and Italian speaking people.

Who wants everyone to be like themselves anyway?

[sriracha john]

A university degree with an English major is no guarantee of proficiency. I know at least a half dozen whose verbal skills have not progressed beyond the "Hello, how are you?" of Prathom 3. Sad, but true.

[Boon Mee]

The fact that few Thais speak English is absolutely no problem to me as it means I have to become more profecient in their language!

Nothing more irritating & arrogant than the archetypal Farang who's attitude demands everyone speak English.

[meadish_sweetball]

The fact that few Thais speak English is absolutely no problem to me as it means I have to become more profecient in their language!

Nothing more irritating & arrogant than the archetypal Farang who's attitude demands everyone speak English.

I agree about the attitude problem of farangs who come everywhere and become upset when people do not speak English.

But changing the perspective and getting real about Thailand's chances for rapid development, the overall level of English has to be improved.

It's a tough call for the Thais as they are at a serious disadvantage when it comes to learning English as opposed to speakers of many other languages. Thai grammar and speech patterns are far removed from English, so it takes a major effort for them to learn it well, and when their teachers already speak broken and ungrammatical English, it becomes an even harder task. Most Thais under 30 have enough words to be able to communicate ok in English, what they lack is confidence/practice and proper instruction. You have to start with the teachers...

[Boon Mee]

The fact that few Thais speak English is absolutely no problem to me as it means I have to become more profecient in their language!

Nothing more irritating & arrogant than the archetypal Farang who's attitude demands everyone speak English.

I agree about the attitude problem of farangs who come everywhere and become upset when people do not speak English.

But changing the perspective and getting real about Thailand's chances for rapid development, the overall level of English has to be improved.

It's a tough call for the Thais as they are at a serious disadvantage when it comes to learning English as opposed to speakers of many other languages. Thai grammar and speech patterns are far removed from English, so it takes a major effort for them to learn it well, and when their teachers already speak broken and ungrammatical English, it becomes an even harder task. Most Thais under 30 have enough words to be able to communicate ok in English, what they lack is confidence/practice and proper instruction. You have to start with the teachers...

Think about how hard it is for us to learn their tones too! We're not all as proficient as the serious linguists seen over in the Language thread!

[Jaime]

Focussing on (English) language as a barrier to commercial success in a global market place is a bit of a red herring. Native English speakers have convinced themselves, however, that English is essential. Widespread inability to speak English proficiently has not hindered the Japanese, although obviously learning ANY additional language will increase one's marketability.

In Thailand the bigger issue is lack of aspiration and motivation for young people in all fields, not just foreign language literacy. Thais are content to underachieve. There, I said it!

P.S. Agree with Meadish Sweetball about the cultural barriers (shyness etc.) and proficiency of teachers.

[roamer]

Interesting. we return to Bangkok for 4 months early next year with a 9 year old daughter who is completely bi-lingual (Thai/English) and her French is pretty damm good too.

Bilingual education has become increasingly important, and with proper government backing and parental guidance, Thai children need not have a difficult time learning a second language; they merely have to start young.

In that context it will be interesting to see if we can find a school for her during that period, she could most probably give her peer group a kick start that few Thai teachers will be able to do;Thai grammar and speech patterns are far removed from English, so it takes a major effort for them to learn it well, and when their teachers already speak broken and ungrammatical English, it becomes an even harder task.

Will we be able to to do this ? I doubt it, the system in LOS is probably too inflexible to allow it to happen. And thats a dammed shame...there are half a dozen 8-14 year olds in our apartment block that improved their English skills to an unbelieveable level in the space of 2 weeks on our last trip.........

[roamer]

Apologies...my quotes screwed up.

[Boon Mee]

In Thailand the bigger issue is lack of aspiration and motivation for young people in all fields, not just foreign language literacy. Thais are content to underachieve. There, I said it!

Jaime~

Don't think you'll get any argument there. Shame, really...

[Guest fj2003]

the topic here is very nice,

even in the knowledge, that my english writing is aweful and my grammar is bad also i am not afraid to write and to speak.

2 years ago i met an english teacher from a government school in nonthaburi on a party.

this teacher was in his fourties and teaching english and thai since years ,but it was impossible to have a fluently conversation with him

he was able to correct all my mistakes, but not able to speak more then smalltalk about weather and how i am feel in thailand.

so my lady had always to do the translation for him.

so i am wonder, how he could teach his students to learn english

and he told me that for the classroom he doesn't need to talk english because he is teaching in thai language and the students have to learn about grammar and writing in his class only

speaking english would been teached in an other ( 1 ) lesson per week with a farang teacher from NZ, who is native, who is graduated as a scientist in physics.

now i understood the thai dilemma of talking english by the point of view, to loss the face, if they are not sure how to talk correctly .

so then it is more easy to smile and to keep quite instead of try to practise.

let us hope that the new generation will be better - starting with their teacher.

if you find my mistakes please feel free to correct me please

[Up2U]

The fact that few Thais speak English is absolutely no problem to me as it means I have to become more profecient in their language!

Nothing more irritating & arrogant than the archetypal Farang who's attitude demands everyone speak English.

This depends upon circumstances.

On Suvarnabhumi Airport I work for a German Company. The Main Contractor for the Terminal / Concourse is a Thai / Japanese Joint venture. The NBIA architect is a US / German partnership. We also have Italian, Australian, other German, Japanese companies.

In order to communicate we all speak English (in it's many guises) and all written correspondence, records, schedules and so on are in English.

I try very hard to teach my Thai engineers how to keep records, interpret the requirements, so on. One has a limited grasp of English that has improved greatly over the past nine months. He is now leader of the remainder, who, although well qualified in their own particular disciplines, retreat into the background when discussions in English are held.

I have taught many different nationalities the basics of running a project - Arabs, Libyans, Nigerians, Indonesians, Iranians (although they were mainly brighter than me ), HK Chinese (who were ALL brighter than me), Indians, Filipinos and others. Only in Thailand have I met this reluctance to deal with the English language.

[Artisi]

I am a "farang" who teaches English in a Thai university, and I can tell you straight up that, the system of teaching in Thailand is so screwed it will take a generation or two to straighten it out if we start today. The majority of Thai teachers at all levels cannot communicate with any proficiency, sure a lot of them will run rings round most western teachers in grammar but that's it. The majority of teaching at the lower levels is done in Thai and it is all grammar based, the poor kids get to university and they are expected to be able to communicate in English at a university level, most have hardly ever spoken a word of English other than -

Good morning, how are you? I'm fine thanks and you?

And what they have learnt is not English but Thainglish, footbon, certran, I'm 15 year on, how (house), I’m broken heart - etc etc.

Recently I was involved in an English camp for a group of kids – 12 – 16 years old from a small rural high school, great kids, a joy to teach and interested in learning - but for most this was the first time they had heard a native speaker and given the opportunity to speak any real English or to be corrected when they made errors.

They don’t fair much better at university – poorly constructed teaching, notes and exams full of errors, locally produced text books that are full of major errors– I could go on and fill a book on this subject. Unfortunately a lot of universities are only interested in enrolling students because of the income generated, the students end up in classes 50 -60, and where I teach more than this – for all the good this is, they might as well be in the main stadium with one teacher and an amplifier, this way we could “teach” hundreds at a time.

And who cares, seems nobody is really interested, the Government is making it more and more difficult for western teachers stay in Thailand – like increasing visa fees by a factor of 4, the same with work permit fees and multi-entry fee’s , and don’t make either the visa or w/permit t easy to renew, separate offices without any co-ordination between them and if you forget to cross the “T” or dot the “I” , it’s sorry, come back next week – I know you live 700 Km away from the Bkk office but that’s not my problem.

Having said all this, do I believe that all Thai people should speak English, easy answer is NO, I don’t expect this - but if you’re going to teach English at school lets get it right –let’s not waste time, energy and good resources. Re-vamp the whole English teaching programme, start training the trainers in correct English, employ more native speakers to help train the trainers, encourage English teachers to come to Thailand by removing all the frustrations of visa procedures etc. There are some of us living here who are committed to stay in Thailand – but some days you have to ask yourself, is it all worth it.

[DJ Pat]

I find it astounding that so many people here don't even have a basic understanding of any English after all these years. I put it down to Thainess.

[astral]

But despite the fact that children were taught English in school, it was just a few classes a week, and most students were not proficient in the language when they left.

Let's be fair here.

Hands up all those who learnt a foreign language at school and left school feeling they could communicate in that language?

Certainly not me. I did not see the need.

In those days my family had no money for foreign travel and I never met a French person in my normal life and Latin is a dead language.

Motivation is the point here.

Few language teachers in school speak the language well, which does not help.

However I do have a knack for language and usually pick up a few basic phrases, at the very least, when I visit a new country. Here I speak Thai and little else, I even think in Thai, and realised recently that I talk to myself in Thai.........

I know - First sign of madness!!

[astral]

I find it astounding that so many people here don't even have a basic understanding of any English after all these years. I put it down to Thainess.

Perhaps the arrogance is your?

This is Thailand, why don't you speak Thai?

[DJ Pat]

I had French lessons at school and despit being bone idle, I still learnt the basics and still know them today.

And I learnt to kiss in French.

[DJ Pat]

I find it astounding that so many people here don't even have a basic understanding of any English after all these years. I put it down to Thainess.

Perhaps the arrogance is your?

This is Thailand, why don't you speak Thai?

I do speak Thai and I am arrogant.

[eljeque]

Another possibility on the language issue is that not only is English taught poor;y here, but so are a lot of other subjects. Which are taught more poorly - I don't know. Which receives the least practice outside of the classroom, I would expect English.

Could you imagine if the country did speak English? If all of the cheap little hotels throughout the country had English speakers actually giving you what you asked for, understanding your requests; and the restaurants as well. Imagine how much more they could charge for their services. How many people go back to the same restaurant or shop because someone there speaks English well. I do not do it a lot because I can seak Thai, but I know others who do.

Also, think about all of those poor Thais learning everything that is written said in English about their PM, government, views from the outside... would it change anything?

[eljeque]

I was in Porncharoen, a small city in Nongkhai last year. I was with my wife, who speaks English. We were chatting in Thai to a bunch of young men at an open air bar. I had a hard time understanding their Thai as they were drunk. I asked my wife where they worked. She told me that they were English teachers at the local high school. She told me that it wa the reason that Thais cannot speak English.

[p_brownstone]

My Daughter is bilingual in Thai and English and attended ISB from Grade 1 until Graduation; some 4 or 5 years before she Graduated the local laws changed and Thai students were allowed to attend International Schools in Bangkok.

My daughter often commented to me - and I observed from personal experience - that the Thai students socialised almost exclusively with other Thais in school, very rarely did they join other groups, even at lunch for example.

[phormio]

Maybe the thais should be thinking 30 years ahead and teach the new generation Mandarin.

[plachon]

My 8 year old daughter recently sat an English exam set by a private company called "Top Test", which claims to be nationwide leader in test setting. They get schools to promote their tests, take an entry fee of parents and kids that do well in each province/region then go on to compete nationally for cash prizes in a number of subjects including maths, Thai and English. I thought she'd sail through, but when I got to see the test sheet after, I found that fully 50 % of the questions had spelling and grammatical mistakes and many were such nonsense, that even a native-speaking adult couldn't answer them. Others were totally out of the experience range for a Pratom 3 student.

Wrote a letter pointing out this low standard to the school principal (in Thai) and unsurprisingly, have never received a reply. As I suspected, it was just a cynical money making exercise, and feedback was not welcomed. Anyone else had any experience of their kids taking part in such tests?

[Phil Conners]

I've spent countless years of my life to learn to speak 6 languages (+ my mother tongue). If everybody on this planet could just learn ONE ###### language - English would be a good candidate but I really don't care if it was Chinese - then we would all just have to learn ONE language beyond our mother tongue, and we could get onto dealing with the real problems !

[otherstuff1957]

A lot of good points have been made here. Most Thai English Teachers would qualify as pre-intermediate students if they were studying English themselves. For them to be teaching English is a case of the blind leading the blind. The Thai teachers can be effective at teaching the students grammar and vocabulary, but they cannot teach pronunication or conversational English.

Class size in also an issue. Most Thai schools have about 50 students per class. Thai schools get criticised for 'rote teaching', however, with classes that large encouraging students to think creatively or to express themselves is almost impossible. Until the Thai Government gets serious about improving their schools the Thai students will be at a disadvantage in many ways.

Putting Native English Speaking Teachers in the classrooms is a good start, but most of the schools that I have taught at do not have any coordination between the Thai teachers and the Farang teachers. The NES teachers could be used much more effectively.

BTW, the Pathoom students in my school ARE studying Mandarin as well as English. Givin the similarities between Thai and Chinese, the students are learning it much more quickly than English.

[Khun Jean]

In the Netherlands i had the advantage that a lot of movies, series on TV were in English with subtitles.

I also liked to read English books and watched the BBC many times.

If i compare the English of Dutch/Belgian people and German people i find Dutch people have a better pronunciation.

In Germany foreign spoken movies/series are dubbed in German.

In Thailand we see the same thing.

Why not use the original language to have a chance to learn new words and improve both the vocabulary and pronunciation.

My wife lived with me 1.5 years in the Netherlands and she picked up a lot from just watching TV and listening to the radio. (English spoken with Dutch subtitles)

I think in Thailand people don't have many oppertunities (apart from study) to be exposed to spoken English and that is the major problem i think.

The big advantage is that you can just listen without being embarressed or feeling shy.

[plachon]

Khun Jean, you've hot on another institutional handicap that ordinary Thais have, if they want to learn English outside the classroom environment. Unlike other countries, which encourage English learning through TV programmes in English (exception of 15 mins of Ajarn Andrew a day!) and soundtrack movies with subtitles, Thais are denied this excellent chance to learn vernacular English. Instead, they (and a few of "us") are subjected to some of the worst dubbing in the world ("The hub of bad dub" is a title LOS does deserve). To add insult to injury, the English written word is taxed at a ridiculous rate, making newspapers like Nation and B. Post (20 baht), 150 % more expensive than Thai language counterparts e.g. Matichon - 8 baht. All these seem to be conscious efforts by the govt. to deny their citizens easy access to English learning opportunities.

[Narachon]

Maybe the thais should be thinking 30 years ahead and teach the new generation Mandarin.

That is a very good idea if they did, along with English....China definitely looks like it's going to be the future regional superpower in Asia.... Thailand will be almost culturally and economically dominated by them in a few decades...

Hmm....Maybe I should hedge my bets and marry a Chinese girl instead?

[Dario]

To astral:

"Perhaps the arrogance is your?

This is Thailand, why don't you speak Thai?"

We all do speak some Thai, my friend, otherwise we simply couldn't survive here. You're missing the point. This has nothing to do with arrogance, but if you insisit, we'll open a forum exclusively accessible to farangs. We're talking about English being the globally accepted language. Don't forget that most of the money circulating in Thailand comes from the "farangs" and has been brought into this country from export and tourism.

To Artisi:

You took the words right out of my mouth. I'm teaching English to the Japanese since 17 years. The Japanese here are very eager to learn, because they know they're going to make substantially more money once they master the English language.

The Thai government still doesn't understand the urgency of this problem. There are no teachers around who are apt to teach English in a correct and efficient way. This is why most Thais are not able to participate in an easy English conversation. I commend the International Schools here, like ISB and Ruam Rudee which do fabulous work in this regard.

What the government should do is: embrace qualified foreign English teachers and let them work in places where they are most needed: in Thai government schools where there are no qualified English teachers. Instead, the government scares them all away.

Sorry folks, no offence but this is the truth...

[orang_utan]

To add insult to injury, the English written word is taxed at a ridiculous rate, making newspapers like Nation and B. Post (20 baht), 150 % more expensive than Thai language counterparts e.g. Matichon - 8 baht. All these seem to be conscious efforts by the govt. to deny their citizens easy access to English learning opportunities.

Agreed.

- I have also noticed that the same english books (novels, magazines, text books, etc.) here are much more expensive compare with other Asian countries, e.g. Malaysia, Singapore.

- Foreign language books are translated into Thai, personally I think this is the biggest discouragement among all the others. No wonder even the highly-educated Thais (not all, but majority) still can't be good in English, since most of the reading materials sooner or later will be translated to Thai, English is therefore needless, they have been pampered...