Buddhism And Astrology In Thailand

[merlin1]

Hi there -

I was wondering if someone might know what the standard Buddhist line towards astrology is. I know that astrology is widely practiced in Thailand, so much so, that it's hard to see how it could be considered incompatible with Buddhist doctrine.

However, I have often heard that Buddha himself wanted people to avoid fortune tellers and astrologers. I have no idea if this is really the case, so I'm looking for a more informed view on that, perhaps with a textual reference.

On the face of it, it seems that a doctrine which espouses joy in the spontaneity of life and an acceptance of whatever comes shouldn't be too encouraging of a system of thought which purports to divine the future.

Just to lay my cards on the table here, I'm also conflicted about it on a personal level. While a have a deep sympathy with many Buddhist ideas, I am a practicing astrologer as well.

All thoughts and comments welcome.

[lemon]

Well I don't know if this will help but there's a temple at the Sri Nakhirin end of Soi Onnut called Wat Kajohn Siri and there (at least up to a couple of years ago anyway) the head monk will look at your stars or whatever you call it using the traditional Thai numbers method as well as performing various Buddhist rituals for you as well..I was taken there by a girlfriend for the first time when I was in the middle of several crises of bad luck at around the same time and ended up going back several times to ab nam moon...so yeah, I think that at least the Thai brand of buddhism and astrology are very much intertwined because I was once given a phra kreuang ( religious amulet)after telling my fortune by a professional fortune teller who just happened to be living on the same floor of my apartment block at the time...

[sabaijai]

monastic code

"Whereas some priests and contemplatives, living off food given in faith, maintain themselves by wrong livelihood, by such lowly arts as:

reading marks on the limbs (e.g., palmistry);

reading omens and signs;

interpreting celestial events (falling stars, comets);

interpreting dreams;

reading marks on the body (e.g., phrenology);

reading marks on cloth gnawed by mice;

offering fire oblations, oblations from a ladle, oblations of husks, rice powder, rice grains, ghee, and oil;

offering oblations from the mouth;

offering blood-sacrifices;

making predictions based on the fingertips;

geomancy;

laying demons in a cemetery;

placing spells on spirits;

reciting house-protection charms;

snake charming, poison-lore, scorpion-lore, rat-lore, bird-lore, crow-lore;

fortune-telling based on visions;

giving protective charms;

interpreting the calls of birds and animals --

he abstains from wrong livelihood, from lowly arts such as these.

[merlin1]

Thanks for both pieces of info.

It's very common for monks to offer horoscope readings, hand readings etc. It seems to be part of the job for some of them, so that's why I was puzzled given the injunction against fortune telling. How do they manage to square this circle? Or is this yet another case of TIT???

Judging from the severity of the rules in the monastic code from sabaijai, I think most monks would fail to live up to these almost every day.

Thanks for the tip lemon on the wat kajohn siri -- I'll have to drop by.

[sabaijai]

Thanks for both pieces of info. 

It's very common for monks to offer horoscope readings, hand readings etc.  It seems to be part of the job for some of them, so that's why I was puzzled given the injunction against fortune telling.  How do they manage to square this circle?  Or is this yet another case of TIT???   

Judging from the severity of the rules in the monastic code from sabaijai, I think most monks would fail to live up to these almost every day. 

Thanks for the tip lemon on the wat kajohn siri -- I'll have to drop by.

Some wats allow such practices, others don't. Genereally speaking you won't see astrology or fortune-telling in Thammayut (aka Dhammayutika) temples, but even many Mahanikai (the majority monastic sect in Thailand) monasteries enforce this rule strictly. At Wat U Mong in Chiang Mai, for example, you'll find the Sangha do follow the rule.

Among most Thais, temples that are lax about fortune-telling, etc, are considered wat thiaw (tourist wats) rather than wat patipat (practice wats).