Bridge Over The River Kwai

[sunreader]

While there recently I walked over the bridge and noticed two plaques stating that the bridge was constructed by a Tokyo company.

Does anyone know the history of this and why Japan was decided upon to win this contract? and did they build it free of charge as some form of recompense for their activities during WW2?

[seonai]

It was built by Japanese POWs as far as I am aware. Many, many, many POWs died during the construction of the bridge

[mr_hippo]

The first wooden bridge was completed in early 1943 by Allied POWs and other forced labour. The first steel bridge (brought from Java) was completed in late 1943. Both bridges were bombed by the Allies in 1945. I believe that the Japenese rebuilt the bridge (The present one) as part of war reparations.

The film "The Bridge on the River Kwai" is a work of fiction based on a novel by Pierre Boulle but the main Allied character - Colonel Nicholson - is said to be very loosely based on Lieutenant-Colonel (later Brigadier) Philip Toosey.

Try to get hold of a copy of The Colonel of Tamarkan by Julie Summers (ISBN 0-485-11402-X) and is available in Thailand. I bought my copy here

"The Bridge on the River Kwai", although a fictionalised account remains one of my favourite film but for a 'true' account, there is "To End All Wars" based on the autobiography of Ernest Gordon. Both are available on DVD in Thailand.

[sunreader]

"I believe that the Japenese rebuilt the bridge (The present one) as part of war reparations."

Ah! yes thank you for your response Mr Hippo....I think this is correct.

I should have asked the most excellent Phramaha Tomsan Tongproh (Head monk of Kanchanaburi and deputy head monk of Watchaichumpol) who gave me a tour of the educational J.E.A.T.H museum and a most unforgetably enjoyable ride in his own personal long tail boat up the serene Kwai.

The free meal we enjoyed on a river bank restaurant (the restaurant owners were honoured to see my guest, or was I his guest?) was again excellent, the area is so tranquil. quite in contrast to the previous events of 60 years or so ago. I felt a little guilty enjoying it so. Maybe in a past life....

Nice to see the war graves so beautifully looked after, disturbing to read the headstones.

RIP.

[madjbs]

Why is it always incorrectly called "Bridge Over The River Kwai"? What started this off?

[jingjoe]

wasn't me!

[mr_hippo]

Why is it always incorrectly called "Bridge Over The River Kwai"? What started this off?

At the time of building, the bridge spanned the Mae Klong (the upper reaches of the river were not renamed as the Kwai Yai until the 1960s. I think that the POWs started calling it 'Kwai' because it rolled off the Western tongue better than Mae Klong. Boulle perpetuated this by calling his novel 'The Bridge Over the River Kwai' (Le Pont de la Rivière Kwai). Lean's film uses 'on' and not 'over' in the title.

... the area is so tranquil. quite in contrast to the previous events of 60 years or so ago. I felt a little guilty enjoying it so. Maybe in a past life....

That does strike a chord with me! Two of my relatives died building the railway and so did one of my ex-wife's. The first time I went to the festival, we were sitting high up in the grandstand as the show ended we were making our way down and I froze, I was literally rooted to the spot, why? I saw a group of Imperial soldiers in front of me, I was shaking, tears were welling up in my eyes but I managed to move to a secluded spot. Yes, I know that they were Thais dressed up in replicas of WWII uniforms - what a strange feeling!

[seonai]

Is the reference to the name not that infact it should be bridge over the River Que ?

[Kan Win]

Kan Win

[Kan Win]

The first time I went to the festival, we were sitting high up in the grandstand as the show ended we were making our way down and I froze, I was literally rooted to the spot, why? I saw a group of Imperial soldiers in front of me, I was shaking, tears were welling up in my eyes but I managed to move to a secluded spot. Yes, I know that they were Thais dressed up in replicas of WWII uniforms - what a strange feeling!

Kan Win

[ajahnlau]

Brilliant photos.

[Guts]

While there recently I walked over the bridge and noticed two plaques stating that the bridge was constructed by a Tokyo company.

Does anyone know the history of this and why Japan was decided upon to win this contract? and did they build it free of charge as some form of recompense for their activities during WW2?

The original metal bridge is a Dutch construction and was confiscated during the war at Madioen on Java, Indonesia, where it once spanned the Solo-River.

On 13th february 1945, 2 spans of this bridge were destroyed. The Japanese repaired the bridge using temporarily wooden supports, and finally the middle part was replaced with a construction made in Tokoyo. Cannot remember the date of this. Anyone?

[Rajah]

Is the reference to the name not that infact it should be bridge over the River Que ?

Correct. You could write it "Kwae" as well.

If you talk with Thais about the "River Kwai" they will tell you they never heard about the Buffalo River

[vickersvc10]

Hi Khun Kan Win,

Superb photos! I shall be making my first trip to Kanchanaburi later this month, but my photos won't be nearly as good as yours!!

[jasreeve17]

Yes Kan Win, very nice photos, thanks. (I was there last year at the 'service')

Kanchanaburi would be a pleasant peaceful place if it wasn't for the awful noise pollution around the river area. A nice weelend break from Bangkok spoilt be noise pollution... Why do load speakers shout out on the riverbank from 5am? Why do boats go up & down with screaming loadspeakers all day long (Samui style)? Awful.

[Kan Win]

Hi Khun Kan Win,

Superb photos! I shall be making my first trip to Kanchanaburi later this month, but my photos won't be nearly as good as yours!!

Yes Kan Win, very nice photos, thanks. (I was there last year at the 'service')

Kanchanaburi would be a pleasant peaceful place if it wasn't for the awful noise pollution around the river area. A nice weelend break from Bangkok spoilt be noise pollution... Why do load speakers shout out on the riverbank from 5am? Why do boats go up & down with screaming loadspeakers all day long (Samui style)? Awful.

Thank you both

To "vickersvc10" hope you enjoy your stay. Please come back and tell us all about it, with your photos as well.

To "jasreeve17" I live up river (2 kms) from the Famous Bridge over the River Khwae (Kwai) and it is peacefull here with very little noise pollution and yes I do agree with you if you are down stream from the Bridge it is noisy as most of the tourists here are Thais on Disco Rafts and No-Thais love the longtail boats that make all the noise. Look around up stream and you can find some quite places. (You will need wheels BTW)

Yours truly,

Kan Win

Edited October 11, 2008 by Kan Win

[phaethon]

Here are the noise pollution culprits - huge floating discos for (Asian) tourists passed as we travelled up-river by long-tailed boat:

A section of the wooden trellis built by Allied PoWs still survives, though not over the river but alongside it. You can see it by taking the train from Thakilen and leaning out of the left-hand windows:

[tommyj4]

Bit off track, but how many thousands of Thai forced labourers died, I read somewhere but cant remember, am sure it was in the tens of thousands.

[Carib]

Bit off track, but how many thousands of Thai forced labourers died, I read somewhere but cant remember, am sure it was in the tens of thousands.

Though records are sketchy, approximately 61,000 Allied prisoners of war are believed to have labored on the railway, including 30,000 British, 18,000 Dutch, 13,000 Australian, and 700 American soldiers. An estimated 16,000 of those troops died, many of them from diseases like cholera, beri beri, malaria, and typhoid, most during an intensified period of construction known as "speedo" that commenced in January 1943. Another 200,000 Asian laborers, mostly Thai, were forced to work on the railway. More than 80,000 lost their lives

This is not just about the bridge, but the railway as a whole.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/previous_s...kwai/index.html

Somemore from wikipedia

The largely fictitious film plot is based on the building in 1943 of one of the railway bridges over the Mae Klong - renamed Khwae Yai in the 1960s - at a place called Tha Ma Kham, five kilometers from the Thai town of Kanchanaburi. This was part of a project to link existing Thai and Burmese railway lines to create a route from Bangkok, Thailand to Rangoon, Burma (now Myanmar) to support the Japanese occupation of Burma. About a hundred thousand conscripted Asian labourers and 12,000 prisoners of war died on the whole project.^[1][2]

[AjarnP]

While there recently I walked over the bridge and noticed two plaques stating that the bridge was constructed by a Tokyo company.

Does anyone know the history of this and why Japan was decided upon to win this contract? and did they build it free of charge as some form of recompense for their activities during WW2?

Sort of off topic but not really...

Is there a service at teh town cemetary or further up the line in November?

If anyone has any details I would love to make the trip

AjarnP

[amsterdammer]

Japanese POW’s built it, and the American Air Force turned it back into piles of wood.

Interestingly, in an “anorak” kind of way, the Americans used the worlds first ever “smart bomb” to destroy the bridge.

Dropping bombs from thousands of feet in the air, attempting to hit the railroad targets that were only perhaps 4 meters wide was thought to be futile.

So the Americans devised the first "smart" bomb by adding a remote controlled propeller on the bombs that the bomber pilot could manoeuvre with remote control and adjust in flight to help it hit their rightful target.

I recall seeing a documentary on the subject with the first B24 Liberator pilot reporting a direct hit with the very first bomb being dropped smashing through the central span.

More info at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azon

Of course “Smart Weapons” have moved on somewhat since this first incarnation

[Flatouthruthefog]

Why is it always incorrectly called "Bridge Over The River Kwai"? What started this off?

At the time of building, the bridge spanned the Mae Klong (the upper reaches of the river were not renamed as the Kwai Yai until the 1960s. I think that the POWs started calling it 'Kwai' because it rolled off the Western tongue better than Mae Klong. Boulle perpetuated this by calling his novel 'The Bridge Over the River Kwai' (Le Pont de la Rivière Kwai). Lean's film uses 'on' and not 'over' in the title.

... the area is so tranquil. quite in contrast to the previous events of 60 years or so ago. I felt a little guilty enjoying it so. Maybe in a past life....

That does strike a chord with me! Two of my relatives died building the railway and so did one of my ex-wife's. The first time I went to the festival, we were sitting high up in the grandstand as the show ended we were making our way down and I froze, I was literally rooted to the spot, why? I saw a group of Imperial soldiers in front of me, I was shaking, tears were welling up in my eyes but I managed to move to a secluded spot. Yes, I know that they were Thais dressed up in replicas of WWII uniforms - what a strange feeling!

Believe in those feelings! From the age of about 9 (1st time), any and every time I see a picture of a WW2 Lancaster bomber or anything to do with one I have exactly the same reaction and feelings.

13 years ago here in Thailand I took part in a past-lives 'regression' under very light hypnosis. Sure enough, my last life ended over Germany when we were hit by AA fire as I pulled her up and banked to starboard after "laying the eggs". During this session, I found myself using all that sort of jargon. PM with your e-mail for more if you wish.

Unbelievers - just 'carry on regardless'!

[IMA_FARANG]

It was built by Japanese POWs as far as I am aware. Many, many, many POWs died during the construction of the bridge

1. I believe the actual bridge was destroyed during the war.

2. I also believe that the present bridge is not actually located where the original bridge was...but I may be wrong about that.

3. As many Thais were forced to work on the bridge and railroad as POWs.

4. I knew a Dutch (born in Indonesia) man who was there. He has now passed away. He was interviewed by the makers of the well-known film. Apparently they didn't like his opinions (he was quite critical of the British POW officers, who he accused of stealing food from the other nationalities there).

5. The part of the movie which claims to show POWs refusing to work is nonsense. The Japanese never fed anyone in the actual camp area. Only those who were capable of walking to the work area were fed after they arrived and before they left at the end of the day. So the people who did not work simply did not eat.

6. The reasons that most POWs did not try to escape was:

a. The area was mostly jungle with no roads or paths.

b. The Japanese would shoot any locals that were found to be hiding POWs and their families.

c. Most of the locals had little food anyhow, and there was no food for escaping POWs.

[benjamat]

It was built by Japanese POWs as far as I am aware. Many, many, many POWs died during the construction of the bridge

This is the original small wooden bridge of which only a small section remains downstairs in the museum.

I had a real laugh the last time I was there watching all the tourists taking pictures of the steel bridge. most did not even see the real jap bridge built by prisoners which is hidden away somewhat in the museum

[Nignoy]

Amusing to see the

Japanese POW’s built it, and the American Air Force turned it back into piles of wood.

Interestingly, in an “anorak” kind of way, the Americans used the worlds first ever “smart bomb” to destroy the bridge.

Dropping bombs from thousands of feet in the air, attempting to hit the railroad targets that were only perhaps 4 meters wide was thought to be futile.

So the Americans devised the first "smart" bomb by adding a remote controlled propeller on the bombs that the bomber pilot could manoeuvre with remote control and adjust in flight to help it hit their rightful target.

I recall seeing a documentary on the subject with the first B24 Liberator pilot reporting a direct hit with the very first bomb being dropped smashing through the central span.

More info at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azon

Of course “Smart Weapons” have moved on somewhat since this first incarnation

Amusing to see the words Smart and American in the same phrase

[WMHand]

The USA bomb the bridge using the first smart bomb. A good book on the building of the railroad is, The last stand of the tin can sailor

[chrisyork]

The actual bridge is really only the tourist freindly tip of the iceberg. The project was to build a supply route into Japanese occupied Burma of which only the section to Nam Tok is still in use. The engineering is quite heavy with many deep cuttings through solid rock and shelves in cliffs above the river. To get the whole thing in perspective take a trip up to Nam Tok on the train, realise it's only a part of the line and then reflect that, in round numbers, one person died for every sleeper (or tie for Americans) in the track today. And note that the vast majority of casualties were asian, so again the allied war cemetry is just the tip of the iceberg.

Chris

[Kan Win]

The actual bridge is really only the tourist freindly tip of the iceberg. The project was to build a supply route into Japanese occupied Burma of which only the section to Nam Tok is still in use.

The engineering is quite heavy with many deep cuttings through solid rock and shelves in cliffs above the river.

To get the whole thing in perspective take a trip up to Nam Tok on the train, realise it's only a part of the line and then reflect that, in round numbers, one person died for every sleeper (or tie for Americans) in the track today. And note that the vast majority of casualties were asian, so again the allied war cemetry is just the tip of the iceberg.

Chris

[benjamat]

Just a thought.

We have rememberence coming up tomorrow.

Is there a rememberence day for the japanese war in the same way as european war ?

[prodriver]

Could I just point out to "tommyj4", "Carib" and "IMA_FARANG" that no Thais died constructing the railway into Burma. Plenty of Tamils, Burmese and Malays did but not Thais. Remember that Thailand was allied to Japan during the war.