Patong Closes Early

[RDN]

Grumbling Patong closes earlier

PATONG: More than 200 entertainment places in Patong are closing earlier, in the wake of a new order from the Interior Ministry.

The order means that many venues that previously could stay open until 2 am now have to close at 1 am, and in some cases, midnight, although the closing time will be extended on New Year’s Eve, until 6 am on January 1.

Businesses in the “entertainment zone” – which includes Soi Bangla, Taweewong Rd, Rat Uthit 200 Pi Rd and Sai Namyen School intersection – are, in general, allowed to stay open longer than businesses outside it. However, most of the entertainment places in Patong lie within this zone.

The order came into effect last Friday, but the President of Patong Entertainment Association, Sompetch Moosopon, told the Gazette that most bar owners reluctantly fell into line with it from Tuesday.

K. Sompetch complained that even the previous closing time of 2 am had been too early for most people, as many tourists only began their nights out at midnight or 1am. The association was appealing to the Interior Ministry to reconsider the order before the start of the tourism high season.

He said, “Most of the problems the government is trying to solve through this closing time policy – involving youths, drugs, lewd shows or the mafia – do not exist in Patong. The police officers look after this area well already.”

Leading businessman Chairat Sukabal, who owns the Safari Pub, told the Gazette that 99% of his customers were not Thai teenagers, but tourists, and they were struggling to come to terms with the new policy. It could also discourage investment in Patong, he said.

“Having to close at 2 am was bad enough. Now our businesses are going to be even worse off.

“We have 24 hours in a day, but if we get revenue for only an hour or two a day, who will come to invest in this area?

“Patong is where the money comes in. How can people earn a living if the closing times are 1 am and midnight? I stand firm against this. This will not support tourism but will make tourists leave.”

The streets may be quieter once the bars had closed, K. Chairat said, but after closing hours he had seen tourists walking along the beach or sitting on the pavement, because there was nowhere for them to go, and nothing for them to do.

He continued, “I guarantee that this will not only affect the bar owners but all businesses here including hotels, restaurants, tuk tuk drivers and even merchants in Phuket City.”

Wisut Romin, Deputy Secretary of the Phuket Provincial Administration Office (PPAO) said people would get used to the new opening hours. If Phuket sought to be exempt from such laws because of tourism, he added, other tourist destinations such as Samui and Chiang Mai would plead for exemption too.

The new closing times are as follows. More information on how venues are categorized may be found here.

- Opening and closing time for venues in category 3 (1), “dancing places”, such as discotheques and ram wong: in the entertainment zone, 9 pm to 2 am; outside the entertainment zone, 9 pm to midnight.

- Venues in 3 (3) (massage parlours): in the entertainment zone, from noon to midnight; outside the entertainment zone, from 6 pm to midnight.

- Venues in class 3 (4), (“entertainment venues”), places selling food (maybe) and alcohol and offering some form of entertainment, whether that be a show performed for customers, o r allowing customers to sing or dance: in the entertainment zone, 6 pm to 1 am, outside the zone, 6 pm to midnight.

- Venues in category 3 (5), restaurants that provide entertainment and close after midnight (primarily upmarket venues with cultural shows) can open between 6 pm and 1 am.

Brought to you by:

The Phuket Gazette

18:57 local time (GMT +7)

[marquess]

How in heavens name! Can the minister say that people will get used to the hours? How can anyone run a viable business from 9-12? Stupidity here seems to be descending to new depths

[ovenman]

...and the TAT expects that the number of annual tourists arrivals will hit twenty-million by when?

[Ajarn]

...and the TAT expects that the number of annual tourists arrivals will hit twenty-million by when?

Maybe they're shooting for higher quality tourists?

[Pudgimelon]

How in heavens name! Can the minister say that people will get used to the hours? How can anyone run a viable business from 9-12? Stupidity here seems to be descending to new depths

The answer to that question should be obvious to you:

They can't.

The BS reasons they give for these new closing times are just that: bullsh-t. The real reason should be obvious to everyone. They want these venues CLOSED. And this is a roundabout way of getting that done.

I remember they did the same kind of thing in Fort Lauderdale when I lived there. Fort Lauderdale was another rawdy tourist town (famous for it's Spring Breaks), but the thing about Spring Break is that it's only fun for the people that DON'T live there.

Having grown up in a tourist town myself, I know all to well that most locals HATE tourists just as much as they love them. Sure the tourists bring a lot of money into the area, and that supports a lot of families, but tourists are also a big pain in the ass and tend to sh-t all over the place they visit (just look at all the famous "party" destinations around Thailand and how much TRASH tourists leave behind in their wake after a wild weekend party).

In Fort Lauderdale, there were a lot of businesses that relied on the tourist trade and the Spring Break season was their main (or only) source of income. These businesses had a lot of influence politically and for a long time, they had the run of the town. But eventually other local residents became fed up with the trash, crime, and property damage that came with Spring Break every year. So the politicians began changing the laws to make Fort Lauderdale an "unwelcoming" place for rawdy college students.

They couldn't simply ban Spring Break, because of the political influence of the businesses that depended on it, but they could slowing-but-surely make it more and more difficult for those businesses to operate.

Likewise, that's what you're seeing here in Thailand. There is a big push among the Thai elite to "upscale" the tourist trade in Thailand. These people want places like Pat Pong and Khao Sarn to be a thing of the past. They want to discourage sex tourists and backpackers from coming to Thailand at all. And instead they want to focus on those Elite Card carrying fat-cat tourists who come to Thailand to play golf in exclusive country clubs. And they want to focus on the increasing number of FAMILY tourists who come to Thailand to shop, eat, and hit the beaches.

You can see this in many of the new policies and laws the Thai government has enacted recently. Again, like Fort Lauderdale, the old-style tourist businesses still have a lot of influence, so they can't overtly shut these places down. But there is definitely a clear message being sent out that these types of businesses are no longer welcome in Thailand.

In the article, K. Chairat said this: “Patong is where the money comes in. How can people earn a living if the closing times are 1 am and midnight? I stand firm against this. This will not support tourism but will make tourists leave.”

The answer to his question is simple: People CAN'T earn a living in a three-hour work day. That should be obvious. So the obvious answer to the problem is to CLOSE DOWN that type of venue and open a different type of venue that caters to a different type of tourist.

Business owners in the Patpong area are going to have to make a tough choice: stick it out and hope the government policy changes (it won't) or close down their go-go bars and open up a different type of venue (perhaps a jazz cafe, a traditional thai dance show, or live theater featuring thai and western plays, etc...). Bangkok has a real lack of entertainment options in these areas so I'm sure that tourists (both Thai and western) would still flock to Patpong if it featured that type of entertainment.

Sure, maybe not the same KIND of tourists would come, but then again, Patpong already sees a lot of families wandering through that area. I'm sure that if someone opened up a puppet show or dance theater that catered to kids in that area, it would get a lot of business and the government would certainly allow it more favorable operating hours (since it fits in with the new type of tourism they want to encourage).

[Ijustwannateach]

I suppose then, as in any false democracy, the will of the people will be expressed through civil disobedience.... or, as the Beastie Boys put it- you gotta fight for your right to paaaarty!

"Steven"

[Pudgimelon]

Oops, just realized I misread the original post. I thought it said "Patpong", not "Patong".

Well, the point of my post still applies whether or not it's Bangkok or Phuket.

The government is obviously trying to discourage these types of businesses, and the business owners are still faced with the choice to stick it out or morph their businesses into a different type of venue that is allowed to stay open longer.

Sex tourists, backpackers, and other paaaaaarty tourists still have a lot of places to go to have fun. So it's doubtful that they'll "fight for their right to party". They just simply take their money elsewhere.

Business owners don't really have any particular interest in paaaaartying, they just want to make money off it, and they have a lot invested in their places already (plus it'll cost a lot to convert their existing venues into something else).

So the only people who would have a real need to "fight for their right to paaaarty" are the expats who've settled here and the employees of those places who may not have the skills needed to find a real job.

The paaaaarty-harty-expats in Thailand aren't exactly renowned as "men of action". They like to b-tch a lot from their barstools, but for the most part they are just content to whine. If the government designates an "entertainment area" that stays open late, then the expats will just go there to "paaaaarty". They may b-tch about the loss of their favorite pubs, but other than that, they won't bother to cause a fuss about it. After all, the government has already made it abundantly clear that "seedy" expat-types are no longer welcome in Thailand. So those who "fight for their right to paaaaarty" by going to illegally-open pubs outside the entertainment zones run the risk of being kicked out of Thailand for good.

The employees of those venues are pretty much screwed. There's not a whole lot of jobs available for ex-bargirls and ex-touts. So once that type of tourist trade dries up, those people will probably have to move back to the village and take up rice farming again.

[stroll]

Puppet shows instead of Go-Go bars?

[Pink Mist]

Bob Dylan once said "You can have your cake and eat it", but I don't think it applies here.

[Mr_Happy]

Torurism is flat or going down, stayed about 10 Million for the last 4 yrs so I guess you see how their policy affects tourism.

[Pudgimelon]

Puppet shows instead of Go-Go bars?

Like I said, the same TYPE of tourist would not find the same TYPE of venue appealing.

There are a lot of families, retiree COUPLES, and other "upscale" tourists visiting Thailand these days, especially from Asia and India.

These people bring a lot of money with them, and if you really think about it, they represent a much bigger pool of potential customers than the relatively small sex tourist crowd. So from a macro-business perspective, family-style and upscale-style tourism is much more of a growth industry. Bangkok has pretty much "peaked" in the sex industry, and if the Tourism Authority wants to continue growth in the tourist industry, they have to look at segments of that population that Thailand does not serve, and seek out ways to attract them.

Yes, the notion of a puppet show taking over the location of a go-go bar is silly, but what I was trying to say is that a family-orientated or upscale business might have better odds of surviving in that area because it would A) be able to stay open longer, and provide an entertainment option that is currently unavailable to tourists (both Thai and Western).

Let's not forget that a lot of tourists who come to Bangkok and the islands are Thais. They bring their families and they most definitely do not want to put up with the bullsh-t and hassles (touts, crooks, and drunks) that come along with a sex-tourist-orientated area.

There are a lot of entertainment options available in other cities that Bangkok simply does not provide in any real way. Jazz venues, dinner theaters, dance shows, plays, performance art, folk art, poetry jams, etc.... and yes, even puppet shows. These things bring in A LOT of money in other cities, and I think the Thai Tourism authority sees that and knows that if they want to create SUSTAINABLE tourism in the long run, they need to start discouraging continued investment in seedy, low-end tourism (because it discourages the more profitable family and upscale tourists from coming here).

YOU may not find the options I mentioned to be your cup of tea, but there are a lot of people who would be thrilled to come to Bangkok and see a traditional shadow puppet theater. It is, after all, a bit of Thai culture, and that's what a lot of tourists come here to experience.

Likewise, a jazz club or a poetry jam might not be your idea of a fun time, but given the complete LACK of quality options in these areas, wouldn't it make BUSINESS sense to consider these options? After all, if you were going to invest in a new business, which would be the smart choice: A) yet another go-go bar or pub to compete for the dwindling party tourist crowd? or a poetry jam cafe that would appeal to hip young Thai professionals and upscale tourist couples?

Don't get me wrong, I definitely think that there is a place for pubs and discos in Bangkok's nightlife, and I think that it is an important role. However, these business owners who are complaining about the new closing hours are too narrow-minded about their options. Sure they can't operate a bar in a 3-hour-a-day timeslot, but they probably could open a dinner theater in the same location and make TONS of money.

It's just a matter of seeing the writing on the wall and adjusting to changing times.

Bangkok: City of Sin is becoming a thing of the past.

Get over it.

[Pudgimelon]

Torurism is flat or going down, stayed about 10 Million for the last 4 yrs so I guess you see how their policy affects tourism.

There is always a short-term dip in situations like this.

Old-style tourists leave, and new-style tourists aren't quite pouring in yet. Plus there is a public-relations job needed to change the public perception of that destination.

Las Vegas is still struggling to do this same thing. They are trying to remake themselves as an "Adult Disneyland", to attract more couples, families, and weddings. And they are actively discouraging further investment in all the "bad businesses" that helped build the city initially, but also gave gambling in Las Vegas such a bad reputation.

So a straight-up seedy casino in Las Vegas isn't going to get built. But a mega-"entertainment mall" that happens to have slots and blackjack tables in one area (and a day care and amusement park in another area), is going to get built.

Likewise, Bangkok will experience a dip as it adjusts. This dip is probably also worsened by the GLOBAL decline in tourism due to September 11th.

So you can't blame the flatness of the tourism market in Thailand on policy alone. Terrorism has certainly had a much bigger impact on tourism than anything the Thai goverment did or did not do.

[withnail]

So pudge your theory is that families and businessmen are quite happy to go out in the evening for 2 hours and be told to go home to bed, I don't think so. I'm looking foward to seeing you open your Jazz cafe I'm wondering how exactly this would make money if not from serving drinks.

Also reffering to your comment on tourists leaving rubbish around I think that you'll find that the tourists that come here are much more aware of the problem of littering than the Thais are. Try reading this link to start with

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=17019

Sure the tourist destinations do attract a lot of rubbish however this is mainly because they are not properly prepared for the amount of visitors. I don't remember ever seeing a rubbish bin at a full moon party.

Once again I think that your posts serve no real value other than to vent whatever anger it is that you seem to have towards the world.

[Baaksida]

Sure, maybe not the same KIND of tourists would come, but then again, Patpong already sees a lot of families wandering through that area.  I'm sure that if someone opened up a puppet show or dance theater that catered to kids in that area, it would get a lot of business and the government would certainly allow it more favorable operating hours (since it fits in with the new type of tourism they want to encourage).

Suggestion to the TAT: "To make up for the revenue of the tourists who won't come to Phuket anymore due to the early closing hours of nighttime entertainment places, let's open several puppet shows and dance theaters, charging the families 800 baht per ticket..."

Honestly, what do bars and discos, which cater to 95% to foreigners, have to do with drug use and unmoral behaviour of young Thai people??

That more and more families discover Phuket/Thailand is a good thing. But why can't we all just co-exist? (Singles/families; tourists/Thais...?) If the Thailand really wants 20 million tourists, then please make sure that all tourists are happy...

What would make sense is zoning for the beer bars, which don't need to be at every corner of Patong...

[Baaksida]

Puppet shows instead of Go-Go bars?

The best puppet show in my opinion is a good ago-go bar with a nice show...

(I'm just a man!)

[fatter than harry]

You can take the shit out of the hole, but you can't take the hole out of the shit.....or something like that, I've always thought the colourful night time in Patong just about balances out the lack of paving stones / sewage disposal / tailors.

[Insight]

Pudgi's world - what a strange place. It sounds like Disneyworld without the fake smiles, but geniune frowns...

Anyways, I'm the only farang guy at a club I go to that focuses on various forms of electronic dance music - all the rest are Thais that are in or around the "middle class" area. They all have good jobs and just like every other human being on the planet in the 20-30 age range (and older), like to go out a few times a week, have a few drinks and enjoy some tunes.

Yet we also are being persecuted by this absolute nonsense. The governments message seems clear - If you like going out past midnight, it doesn't matter what you're into, you're a bad person and must be reformed. Utter <deleted>.

When they first started clamping down, moving the closing times towards 1am, a few "underground" places started appearing where the doors would be open to anybody providing you knew how to find the place. I went to one of these places just the once around 3am - it was absolutely crowded with both Thais and farangs, so much so that you couldn't hardly move in there. The building was an old shophouse, wooden floors, with a few walls knocked in to make it easy (!) to move from room to room.

One accidental fire in there and the body count would of been tremendous - and looking around, this was a very real hazard. I didn't stay long.

Will it take an accident like this before the clampdown policy is reviewed by somebody with a mental age older than 12? Or will the authorities turn around and say "they were out past 2am in an unlicenced building so they deserved to die" ???

[Ijustwannateach]

It's hardly worth replying to Pudgi anymore... get him on the topic of alcohol and whores and he's off, talking to the wall again. I will say, though, that most of the Thai groups I've seen in the so-called "tourist" spots are the latest to bed and the biggest drunkards of them all. Try sleeping in a beach cabin when there's a big party of Thais doing their karaoke thing all night!

Like I've said elsewhere, repressing a thing only makes it stronger and profits the criminal organizations (and the police, who are of course completely different). So people will drink more and the police will make more money. And no, this will have no overall effect on the major paaaarty force of Thailand- the Thais themselves- except perhaps to piss 'em off, if it's enforced.

Sooner or later, I think the Thais might just get tired of someone telling grownups how to take care of themselves. It's the land of the free, after all, right?

"Steven"

[Ijustwannateach]

Pudgi's world - what a strange place. It sounds like Disneyworld without the fake smiles, but geniune frowns...

.

.

.

One accidental fire in there and the body count would of been tremendous - and looking around, this was a very real hazard. I didn't stay long.

Will it take an accident like this before the clampdown policy is reviewed by somebody with a mental age older than 12? Or will the authorities turn around and say "they were out past 2am in an unlicenced building so they deserved to die" ???

Excellent points! It's the wise regulation of an industry that assures public safety. Regulate it past the will of the people and unregulated venues will pop up, reducing tax revenue and endangering the innocent. That's why Prohibition didn't work in America.

Naturally, Pudgi'd probably say that anyone who dies in a dodgy illegal bar deserves his fate, since he should've known he could die there- and you did have the sense to get out. However, I'd argue that with such irresponsible, seat-of-the-pants government added to the corruption here in Thailand, it's fairly hard to know anymore where real official sanction exists and where it doesn't. There's plausible deniability for insurance companies just about everywhere- "oh, such and such a license wasn't in order, so we're not liable." If my favorite (nondodgy) restaurant burned down and I was injured in the process, would I be covered? Who knows? The government wants to tell me what to do, but I doubt they'll guarantee my safety even in businesses that've done their best to follow the official rules.

"Steven"

[Darth Bangkok]

"Sooner or later, I think the Thais might just get tired of someone telling grownups how to take care of themselves. It's the land of the free, after all, right?"

My GF keeps telling me they are thinking of changing the name Thailand back to Siam. Maybe that's why - it ain't free no more. You are only free to be a sheep like everyone else and do as you are told.

[britmaveric]

Just more payoffs and the men in brown turn blind eye. I'm quite sure you can find spots open...always do.

[wiredmark]

My GF keeps telling me they are thinking of changing the name Thailand back to Siam. Maybe that's why - it ain't free no more. You are only free to be a sheep like everyone else and do as you are told.

Great Leader knows whats best for everyone

[stroll]

[

Honestly, what do bars and discos, which cater to 95% to foreigners, have to do with drug use and unmoral behaviour of young Thai people??

Well, that's not so difficult to see. Many young Thais work in or around these places. Apart from 'unmoral behavior' there used to be a very high incident of drug use, i.e. Yaba heads, until about a year and a half ago. And of course they have friends and peers of the same age group...

I am not saying I agree with Toxin's moral crusade, but it is pretty obvious to me why they would impose the regulations as they do. At least it will get the message across. They are not idiots, just morons.

[WISteve]

"Puppet shows?""Jazz venues, dinner theaters, dance shows, plays, performance art, folk art, poetry jams"

You live in a strange, strange world apart Pudgy, my man!

I'm headed to Pattaya for a month or so in about ten days Pudgy and I PROMISE I'll bring a compilation of Robert Frost for the flower girl, okay?

I already know what the other young lady is looking for.....

~WISteve

[stroll]

I already know what the other young lady is looking for.....

Probably waiting for the constant stream of Brit-yobs coming to Pattaya looking for cheap sex and accosting her in the street to slow down a bit.

[BKKdreaming]

its all places that have these hours , Thai and Tourist places.

Do you really think you can shut down a town at midnight , even for the locals.

This is not going to last long if it includes the locals !

[bartender100]

I already know what the other young lady is looking for.....

Probably waiting for the constant stream of Brit-yobs coming to Pattaya looking for cheap sex and accosting her in the street to slow down a bit.

I got enough shaven-headed,tatooed and loud German-yobs around my way at the moment,thank you very much.

I think they might be Neo's

[RDN]

I popped over to Patong, Bangla Road, on Friday night just to see what was happening - and when I got there at 1:30 am (Saturday morning) the boys in brown were there in their brown truck with red lights flashing, and everywhere was closed. So I assume they shut at 1:00, just like they were told.

I won't say where my local is, or what time it closed.

[Strummer]

Well what the possible inpacts?

I think that the public drunkness, drug laden girls on stroll, Katoey pickpockets, fights, public drinking and public urination are good issue for the night zone problem. Looks like the punters will be on the street an hour earlier rather that keeping to the sois. Now, are they going to start the Passport/Piss Test sham that is on the hot list up in Bangers.

Is it possible that the POWERS are owners of 7-11.

Just think how well the newish on along the night market row will be doing. Will there be a new hot spot up the block from Soi Seapeal. That little 7-11 was usually only partonize by the few gays falling out of that little Puffter Saloon down a side street a few meters away.. I can't wait to get a Punters Eye View....'

This new rule is going to Back Fire big time!

[siam]

A firned of mine said"A main player in Pattayas nightlife has moved to Cambodia,and a lot of Farang are going there too"

Good for the country i am sure but will dog eat dog in the clampdown on these business's?I can see people getting greedy and Johnny Farang getting the bullet from Thailand as people fight for the scraps.