Thai "beach Boys" And The Like

[thaiclan]

Well, Thai Clan. The forum is about Thailand (not about other countries).

I don't think the point of this thread is to advise people against having a good time. I agree entirely that people do go on holidays for "action", and that is fine. As I said in an earlier post: "none so blind as those who do not wish to see".

If someone goes on the holiday just to bang away for two weeks with everything on two legs, and go home satisfied, then so be it.

The warnings here were about something different: being reeled in, abused, threatened, getting money taken from you, lied to, manipulated, and I noticed from other posts, being in fear of being killed if you warned someone else about a particular "beach boy".

I don't think it is a bad idea to warn people about that aspect of the heavenly holiday!

I don't know if we are in the midst of a sexual revolution. Sexuality has always been around. It is excellent to be open about sexuality. Promiscuity, well if that's what a girl wants, so be it too, and all one can hope for is that she will take her precautions.

Nothing wrong with marriage and love either. What is belittling about someone wanting, or not wanting, marriage. Don't quite understand what you mean there.....

Blue Princess

My point is that the OP and other posts make the entire situation sound extremely one-sided. That these poor hapless girls are falling hook line and sinker for lies and manipulations that the Beach Boys feed them.

There will always be idiots around who fall for all the BS fed to them when they are in lust, and it is not for anyone to "intervene" in someway.

Aside from any idiots insecure enough to allow anothers empty words to fill up their dreams there are the majority of young savvy sexually free women who are stringing the guys along in just the same way as the guys are playing the game.

The OP painted a picture of young girls believing in the words of marriage and love, and while of course its a no brainer that marriage and love are NOT belittling, it would certainly sound that way to a 25 year old over here for a few weeks playing the "game" like everyone else.

The last thing they need are know-it-alls like us older women trying to point out the pitfalls.

I can just imagine how I would have accepted an older womans advice about how I was living my Life at 18 or 21.

Its never about the physical and ALL about the psychology of the games that people play out. Let them play. What we may see to be a wrong move is THEIR move, let them make it how they need to make it.

[twschw]

This post also reeks of an ideology about young farang women that simply doesnt exist as the majority anymore.

hm. my post is based on experience with exactly that demographic. i don't know why a man would think he would know more about women than women do. i suppose it is up for debate, but most women don't think of sex in the same way as men do and they are usually hoping for more than the physical aspects.

so the idea of a book so far is a collection of stories and opinions of women who 1) live in thailand and 2) date thai men (and all the crazy cultural mishaps involved in both). what do you think girls?

Thaiclan is a man? I am suprised. Profile says female.

[tijnebijn]

Interesting replies I must say . My apologies to Boo if I made you feel it was personal ,

not in particular but i wrote that probably because in the tune of your writing style which is a bit

pessimistic , not that I think that is negative at all . In fact because of that in this subject especially ,

it is feeding the content of understanding the matter from different angles , one sided stories are

going nowhere anyway , so its realistic .

I also was thinking , not just about these beach boys , it could be an interesting thing to create a book

because of the safety .

The safety issue for woman traveling in Thailand is a big worry right now .It even surprises me nobody mentioned it , this also has something to do with woman in Thailand not ?

Then the killing of the Swedish woman , also can remember of a Japanese woman lately. Which all are very serious issues .

Even the government is taking precautions with the whistle , to give out pamphlets etc .

Of course one should be careful when writing a book , good research etc , but I do think

woman would very much appreciate if they could buy a book telling them how to take care themselves

while travelling( in Thailand) . And give them a chance to understand from woman with experience how men who are living in this country might behave and / or response to some behaviour . Not withstanding just being in the wrong place at the wrong moment , which unfortunately always could happen , but it seems rather scary here .

Woman actually living here , do I my opinion ( or should ) know how these things work .

Much better then men or any government officials , why ?

Well because they have a long term relationship , have had or are living like the OP (girlx) on an island , seeing and knowing men and their ways and thoughts ( tricks ). That is called knowledge from life experiences .

When thinking more about it , I think it could be a blessing in disguise , but it very much depends on how

the book is written , only the beach boy thing won't do , but it could help to understand the ways to determine

how to behave , understand and living in Thailand , from you ladies .

And all after all is for the safety of woman , whatever they are doing or choose to, so I might be off topic ,

but sometimes these threads and reactions can go somewhere meaningful .

[seonai]

Right GirlX let's get going on that book before someone else does. I am a professional writer and have a lot of experiences to contribute to this kind of book (will tell more when we are in a group and not discussing publically...). I think we need to get a group together, with GX as coordinator, and start to have regular MSN chats on how to go forward. Don't be put off by anyone... it will sell believe me

Boo is a most wonderful woman but her experience is different I have to say because nobody would mess with Boo!!! There are no flies on Boo. No guy would get away with the slightest little wrongdoing before she'd suss him out and clobber him (verbally of course ). If we girlies were all like Boo the world would be a different place... unfotuately most of us are a little less savy

I reckon we should form this 'book group' asap and really get started but not too much debate in here or someone will pinch the idea

[isabelle17]

Please. A lot of these "helpless" farang women (even if they are young) do at least SOMEWHAT know what is going on. I do agree that some of them can be innocent in all this...but...the reality is, a lot of them know what they are doing, they might just not admit it...I can say this, because I was one of those women!

Are you even going to include any of the relationships that do work out? Because there are some that do...and it seems to me that there is way too much focus on the negative. I'm not saying we shouldn't talk about the negative, but if someone doesn't start talking about something positive, I am going to make my own topic! Because I am tired of hearing all the negative aspects of thai/farang relationships, how annoying Thailand is, how some Thai men cheat, etc. Even if most of that was true, there are some postive aspects and other ways to look at these situations in not such a negative way.

I love Thailand. And even if some Thai men can be extremely annoying or untrustworthy, or whatever, I still love it here. I dont let them run my life. I run my own life. And in life, people make mistakes. Thats what happens....and yes, sometimes there can be serious consequences. But I don't want to look back at my mistakes and think "gosh I was so stupid." I want to think "Okay. I wasnt being too smart then. but I learned from that and now I am going to move on and focus on the postive."

No one, no place is ever perfect. and I'm sorry if I am being harsh, but I am just plain TIRED of arguing, bickering, and talking, about the negative. I feel like this forum is constantly a one-sided circle that keeps on repeating itself... (no offense...)

Like I said, I'm not saying you shouldn't talk about the negative, and give advice. But just let everyone live their own lives, honestly. Unless its one of your good friends, why bother? They are going to make their own mistakes and figure out things on their own.

Sorry...rant over....Keep in mind, what I am saying is totally in my own opinion and I am not saying you have to agree or disagree with me. Just explaing how I feel.

[seonai]

Hi Isabelle... who are you ranting at? I am supporting the idea of an interesting book, nothing else

[isabelle17]

Hi Isabelle... who are you ranting at? I am supporting the idea of an interesting book, nothing else

Hi Seonai

I am not really ranting at anyone in particular...I'm just ranting...just to rant, if that makes any sense at all! Now I'm not so sure if I should have posted that as I could have just ranted in my head instead of letting it out on the forum. I understand you're trying to write a book. It sounds fine. I'm just saying that the book should not be one-sided like many of these topics turn out to become. I think you need to get various opinions and not just the opinions you want to hear, as many people have different experiences. I think if the book talked about safety, thai culture, farang/thai relationships, that is fine. It would be very informative. But I just think that making generalizations can be...unfair. I think it would be more informative to write about the bad AND the good and make it so it has diverse opinions. I for one, would not read it if it just talked about women's "horrific" experiences in thailand. A lot of women and men (no offense) on Thai Visa seem to have so many negative experiences (after reading all this) that I often wonder, well why the heck are you in Thailand anyway? If you do not like it, leave! I understand this forum is also used to vent and complain (heck I am doing it right now too...) I just want to hear something positive from the ladies (and men.)

Sorry if I got off topic...

[seonai]

Hi Isabelle Sweet Pea... I am of the same opinion as you. There are many stereotypical stories to be told about a certain % age of the Thai guys here who come on to Western women. There are also a great many cool and good Thai men who genuinely want to have, and sustain, a good relationship with a Western woman. I feel like I have got the t-shirt and come out good at the other end. So yes, any book would reflect a good all round experience of happenings plus a little warning of certain types... not an account of negative 'beach boy' stuff only... am I on the same track as you girls out there???

Seonai

[maccaroni man]

here in bali the beach boys are rampant. actually its hard to categorise them all as beach boys as some of them are apparently just 'regular' blokes out on the pull. one woman i know (just an acquaintance, lets call her Jen) is 43, same age as me. she has a 25 year old BOYfriend, lets call him Wayan. wayan also has a young balinese girlfriend the same age as him. she says that 'he loves me but he is in love with his girlfriend' and she still stays with him. he does not live with her, runs home to the balinese girl and doesnt care about jen at all. she was very ill recently with a bad flu i think, but he didnt even ask her how she was feeling.

i am occasionally approached by these boys and to be honest, i dont want anything to do with them. they look dirty and they are so obviously only after money. some of them may be cute, but really. what would a 43 year old woman do with a 25 year old boy?

to me its so blatantly obvious that its a financial arrangement and i wonder if i am the only one who sees that?

having said all that, a friend of mine, australian, is 37. her indonesian husband is 50. they have been together for 18 years and have a very successful relationship. sure, they have their ups and downs but they are a great team and have built a successful business together. they started with absolutely nothing at all and now have a great villa, wonderful business and two lovely kids. the husband sold me magic mushrooms back in 1983 and was a real player. he stopped playing up when they met and has been a good husband to her ever since.

so, some people do have it in them to be good people in the end. i dont think he was an asshol_e after money...just a player. he had his fair share of women and ive seen the photos to prove it. im glad my friend is married to him and im glad he is my friend.

give me a clean cut bloke with a brain any day.

In Bali Japanese sex tourisim is a role reversal from Thailand, Women go to Bali for the Bali Boy i.e. Japan has "Bali Boy" in the dictionary. I have known a few and they are the same but different from the Thai version. The western women I have known that hook up with Thai men say: "i have yellow fever" The women I have known in Bali say: I love the long hair, hard bodies dressed in tight sarongs. imho they are both best to steer clear of.

[donna]

having said that, mararoni man, they are very easy on the eye, i must say. i dont care much for the long hair, but when they are all dressed up to go to the temple, they do look pretty cute.

just looking.

[sbk]

One thing that does differentiate Thai beach boys from the rest of the world's beach boys is, of course, the very large part that their culture and upbringing plays in who they are and how they behave. So, in that sense, yes they are unique. In the broad sense of beach boys using women for sex, money or whatever, then no, of course they are not unique. I understand Jamaica also has quite a significant (probably much more so than in Thailand) beach boy culture. But of course, how Jamaican men react and behave and deal with relationships and their issues is quite different from how Thai men do so, and, since we are in a Thailand based forum, it makes sense that we are discussing Thai men.

As for feeling sorry for the women, well, I probably do just as much as I feel sorry for the guys who get taken by Thai girls. Yes, some people do set themselves up to be victimized, and often more than once. But I can still feel for them as a human being and feel that, unless they are some kind of serious lowlife abuser, that they probably don't deserve to be used anymore than anyone else. A lack of empathy for other human beings and the problems they get themselves into is not necessarily a good thing.

As for the book, I doubt it would do much to change things (none of the books aimed at guys seems to) but it still could be an interesting read.

[girlx]

Thaiclan is a man? I am suprised. Profile says female.

yes, you are right, my mistake... don't remember what it was to make me think she was a man.

I am tired of hearing all the negative aspects of thai/farang relationships, how annoying Thailand is, how some Thai men cheat, etc. Even if most of that was true, there are some postive aspects and other ways to look at these situations in not such a negative way.

You are posting on a negative topic which apparently has nothing to do with your life. You don't have to read then! Feel free to post a positive one based on your own experiences!

I agree the book should not be wholly negative, but let's face it, there are some negative aspects about being a woman in Thailand. So it should be realistic too.

Seonai I will PM you... if you have taken the block off, that is

Edited April 4, 2008 by girlx

[girlx]

Like I said, I'm not saying you shouldn't talk about the negative, and give advice. But just let everyone live their own lives, honestly. Unless its one of your good friends, why bother? They are going to make their own mistakes and figure out things on their own.

one of my good friends said this to me yesterday. i am surprised that people feel that way. personally, if i was making a huge mistake and everyone could see it but me, i would appreciate if they at least gave me a heads up, whether they were a good friend or not. yes, people have to live their lives and make their mistakes in their own way, but i don't think there is anything wrong about educating someone about the dangers ahead of time. everyone can be stupid or blind, most people would ignore the advice anyway, but there are lots of books, posts, etc. written for the men coming over for thai girls, why shouldn't there be equivalent advice for women? this culture is fascinating but it is not what it seems on the surface, so a newbie isn't always gonna see what they are getting into until too late.

[isabelle17]

Well, actually, it has a lot to do with my life because my boyfriend used to be a beach boy. I guess now that he isn't, it isn't so relevant. However...maybe thats why I am so sensitive about this issue. I think that everyone is different. Some people like to be very informed, and others don't care so much. I think educating the women about thai culture would be much more productive than just labeling specific groups of people and saying "they are this way."

Okay I am done.

[girlx]

I think educating the women about thai culture would be much more productive than just labeling specific groups of people and saying "they are this way."

Well you can not discuss any group at all whatsoever without generalizing. Might as well just throw out the entire fields of sociology, psychology, and anthropology if you feel that way. There are always exceptions to any rule, but generalizations are valid too.

[AFKAFSinLOS]

"Thai beach boys" "Thai bar girls" "same same but different" (location) . Worth remembering though:

>>> There are boys that work on the beach, and there are "beach boys".

>>> There are girls that work in bars, and there are "bar girls"

As for the idea that the farang girl who is the victim is just as guilty as the Thai beach boy (or more so in some people's view) that's just rather negative, cynical thinking. Just because someone is innocent minded or gullible doesn't make them culpable.

I believe it's preferable to look at the intent behind actions. This is important in general interactions, and essential in cross cultural interactions. The Thai beach boy often sets out to take advantage by intent, i.e negative intentions. The lovely gullible farang lady has no such negative intentions only positive ones.

Put another way:Sure she might act like an idiot, but her heart is in the right place. Can't say the same for the beach boy. That's a big difference in my book.

Edited April 4, 2008 by AFKAFSinLOS

[tijnebijn]

"Thai beach boys" "Thai bar girls" "same same but different" (location) . Worth remembering though:

>>> There are boys that work on the beach, and there are "beach boys".

>>> There are girls that work in bars, and there are "bar girls"

As for the idea that the farang girl who is the victim is just as guilty as the Thai beach boy (or more so in some people's view) that's just rather negative, cynical thinking. Just because someone is innocent minded or gullible doesn't make them culpable.

I believe it's preferable to look at the intent behind actions. This is important in general interactions, and essential in cross cultural interactions. The Thai beach boy often sets out to take advantage by intent, i.e negative intentions. The lovely gullible farang lady has no such negative intentions only positive ones.

Put another way:Sure she might act like an idiot, but her heart is in the right place. Can't say the same for the beach boy. That's a big difference in my book.

Well said .

[girlx]

i agree, well said.

>>> There are boys that work on the beach, and there are "beach boys".

>>> There are girls that work in bars, and there are "bar girls"

another interesting topic sort of already brought up by isabelle would be -'once a "beach boy" / "bar girl", are they always going to be that or can they change to normal people with the right intentions? does it depend on who they meet and how they feel about them or is it something that comes with maturity?'

Edited April 4, 2008 by girlx

[seonai]

Hi GX think I've undone the block? Sorry!!! How embarassing. Have recieved a few PMs from women who want to contribute Let's coordinate soon and leave the moans in here

Edited April 4, 2008 by seonai

[isabelle17]

I think educating the women about thai culture would be much more productive than just labeling specific groups of people and saying "they are this way."

Well you can not discuss any group at all whatsoever without generalizing. Might as well just throw out the entire fields of sociology, psychology, and anthropology if you feel that way. There are always exceptions to any rule, but generalizations are valid too.

This is true, good point.

i agree, well said.

>>> There are boys that work on the beach, and there are "beach boys".

>>> There are girls that work in bars, and there are "bar girls"

another interesting topic sort of already brought up by isabelle would be -'once a "beach boy" / "bar girl", are they always going to be that or can they change to normal people with the right intentions? does it depend on who they meet and how they feel about them or is it something that comes with maturity?'

And this is exactly what I guess I am getting at (or trying to, maybe my words are just failing me miserably this week.) I do believe in this. I have noticed that MOST of the beach boys (at least in the area I was in) were a in their late teens to late 20's and generally no older (though I did meet two very creepy and older ones...one was 31 and another was I dont know...60!) So...if beach boys are generally younger, what do they do after they stop being a beach boy? Get a life? I assume that they move on with their lives, have families, etc....

I guess what I am saying is that I dont feel like "Once a beach boy, always a beach boy." I guess you could say the same about bar girls. It is kind of like that phrase "Once a cheater, always a cheater" (though I think that most people who cheat, probably will cheat again, though there are exceptions.)

And yes, there are exceptions to every rule. That is not to say you shouldn't make generalizations. I just feel like...Okay, so my boyfriend was a beach boy. So....I feel like people assume that he was (or is) a cheater, lowlife, etc. He is exactly the opposite. He has a relatively good job now and he's one of the nicest people (I think) that anyone could ever meet (which is one of the reasons why I was attracted to him in the first place.)

I think a person can change...depending on their motivation, reasons, personality, etc. I just think that it is more important to base someone off of their personality and behavior. Is a druggie always a druggie? No. But many do stay that way. And if they can get out of that group and move on, and quite using drugs, then yes, shows that people can change. However there are some people who just cannot and will not move on with their lives. Ok, I dont know if the "druggie" example is very relevant...but anyway...

Does what I said make any sense?!

Edited April 4, 2008 by isabelle17

[isabelle17]

Oh, and one more thing...

It seems to be that many (younger) Thai men (beach boys included) seem to be controlled a lot by peer pressure...?

It's almost like "If you don't do this, you are not manly enough." Thats the impression I got...does anyone else think this is true?

[dee123]

....just a pointer ladies,....but everytime the "ladies section" appears on thaivisa its either about food or sex,.....just thought i'd let u know

[isabelle17]

....just a pointer ladies,....but everytime the "ladies section" appears on thaivisa its either about food or sex,.....just thought i'd let u know

Actually, theres also sections about beauty products and books.

But yes...I agree there could be more "variety."

[Blueprincess]

Hi Isabelle and everyone:

No problem with a rant now and then LOL.

Sure, everyone is different, that we know. And sure, everyone has a right to lead (or destroy, as the case may be, his or her own life). Let me put it this way, just a small analogy: imagine you see a friend, or indeed anyone, walking towards a cliff edge, not realising it is there. What would you do, if you were standing a short distance away, watching that. I sure would yell, warn, and hopefully get in time before the person fell over the edge.

I know that many young people do not listen to ANY advice. That's fine. But then they come moaning and crying for someone to pick up the pieces. I have seen this so much, so much. And all those people say, without exception: "If ONLY I had listened to soandso, or soandso". Or worse still, they will say, in anger: "WHY didn't you say anything to me?". Yes!

I agree with you that educating women (and men) about Thai culture would be a great thing. And I am glad that you have encountered this man, and that it has worked out well for you. I truly wish you well.

If the poster writing that book wants some input from me, here I am! I write for a living. We'd probably need 20 volumes to cover all the experiences LOL.

Best wishes

Blue Princess

Well, actually, it has a lot to do with my life because my boyfriend used to be a beach boy. I guess now that he isn't, it isn't so relevant. However...maybe thats why I am so sensitive about this issue. I think that everyone is different. Some people like to be very informed, and others don't care so much. I think educating the women about thai culture would be much more productive than just labeling specific groups of people and saying "they are this way."

Okay I am done.

[dee123]

....hey blueprincess you make sense .....

Edited April 4, 2008 by dee123

[torrenova]

Good advice but this could be directed at girls going anywhere. I used to live in Mallorca and I wasn't a rep but lived in an 18-30 hotel for a couple of years. Worked the bars then owned a couple. I employed girls and guys and before that I was one of the working guys who were young, fit, tanned, worldly wise adn living the dream in a sunshine destination. Girls used to come out and lose their knickers within hours, we used to laugh about it as did the girls who worked on the island.

Everyone came to get laid. It was a fact of life. OK, it wasn't as bad as here but the reality is that these girls just don't know any better and with sun, alcohol and some charm, they are easily led. Perhaps stories and advice like this should be put in in flight magazines but I doubt Thailand would want that side of the story told.

[seonai]

We are talking about Thailand in this forum!!! Could all the people who say the 'beach boy' thing can happen anywhere scoot off to an appropriate forum and let us get on with this conversation please.

From the women here we have a whole range of experiences (in no particular order) which range from: getting laid, giving up life back home for a guy here, getting involved in a Thai guy's family, marrying him, being ripped off, having one of the best relationships of their life, finding out he's a serial cheat... loads of stuff

Watch this space BP... we will be in touch

Edited April 4, 2008 by seonai

[AlexLah]

Dear girls,

I hope you are familiar with the stories of foreigners being conned by Thai girls.

The same is for women being conned by Thai Beach Boys (read prostitutes).

You think he is different?

But I can say this over and over again and you will not believe me.

No no no no, this guy is different.

Please dream on and come back here telling your sad story.

[RueFang]

....just a pointer ladies,....but everytime the "ladies section" appears on thaivisa its either about food or sex,.....just thought i'd let u know

And the problem with this is.....??? For the guys it's sports, cars and sex, for the ladies food, cosmetics and sex...it's great that we can meet in the middle like this

[Boo]

um excuse me but please dont forget the recent hot topic about pms & keigling