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Thais Scramble To Allay Tourist Fears After Recent Assaults


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Thais scramble to allay tourist fears after recent assaults

By Seth Mydans

Published: March 23, 2008

BANGKOK: The Thai police will hand out whistles to female tourists after the latest in a long series of periodic sexual assaults and killings on beaches and elsewhere in the country, officials said.

"We will issue the whistles first in risky areas such as beaches, valleys, mountains, national parks, waterfalls and other risky spots," Choochart Suwannakom, commander of the national Tourist Police, said in an interview last week.

While Thailand is generally safe for foreigners, recent sexual assaults and killings of foreign tourists have prompted embassies to issue warnings and have led to fears among Thai officials that the country's attractiveness as a tourist destination could suffer. Tourism is the biggest earner of foreign exchange for Thailand, bringing in more than $16 billion last year, accounting for as much as 6 percent of gross domestic product and generating the most jobs of any industry.

Last week, the police arrested a 31-year-old laborer in the daytime stabbing death March 15 of a Swedish tourist, Hanna Backlund, 27, on a secluded beach in Phuket, one of the country's leading resort areas. The laborer, Akaradech Tangae, told the police that he had tried to rape Backlund but that "she resisted and I had to kill her," Reuters reported.

Choochart played down the recent killings, saying, "I believe security in Thailand is better than in many other countries." He also said that some of the attacks were occasioned by the behavior of the women themselves. Under a front-page photograph of a Western woman in a skimpy bikini, The Bangkok Post quoted Choochart as saying, "They tend to choose a quiet spot away from other people, take off the bikini and sunbathe. That's when the attackers strike."

The killing of Backlund was not the only incident of violence involving foreigners to make the news in recent days. On Saturday, a 24-year-old Indian tourist was stabbed to death while trying to break up a fight during the popular Full Moon party on Koh Phangan island.

On Sunday, The Bangkok Post reported that the police had admitted failure in their investigation of the widely publicized killing in 2000 of Kirsty Jones, 24, a British backpacker who was strangled to death in a guest house in the northern province of Chiang Mai.

"The murders come as a wake-up call for the authorities, who seem to show no concern about the shortage of investment in the tourism industry or the political will to improve the safety of tourists," the newspaper said.

More than 14 million tourists visited Thailand last year, by an official count, and the number of arrivals continues to climb. But Thai tourism is an industry built on image - beaches, temples, elephants, smiles - and to threaten that image is considered a serious offense.

When two fishermen were arrested in January 2006 for the rape and killing of a young British woman at Koh Samui, another of the country's leading resorts, the prime minister at the time, Thaksin Shinawatra, all but ordered their executions. "They have done huge damage to the country," he said.

After receiving a death sentence just two weeks later, one of the men, Wichai Sonkhaoyai, 24, seemed to see his crime in the same light. "I apologize for ruining the country's image," he said.

Tourist arrivals in Thailand can fall quickly, as they have in response to reports of bird flu, SARS and terrorist activity elsewhere in the region. The most notable setback in recent years was the tsunami of December 2004, which took the lives of more than 5,000 foreigners, mostly in and around Phuket. After each of these blows, tourism has recovered and resumed its growth.

But two continuing problems have drawn travel warnings from foreign governments: a violent Muslim separatist insurgency in the southern provinces, and the danger of violent crime and sexual assault.

On Tuesday, the State Department urged Americans to postpone travel to southern Thailand after a bomb attack on a hotel that is popular with foreigners. Two people were killed and 14 wounded.

The travel warnings about assaults address themselves particularly to women. "We continue to receive reports of sexual offenses committed against foreign women and men," the British Embassy warns on its Web site. "Female travelers in particular should maintain a high state of personal awareness during their time in Thailand."

Two other British women were raped in separate incidents in January 2006, the same month the woman was killed on Koh Samui island, the warning noted.

Several killings of tourists have been reported in a little more than a year. In February 2007, two Russian women were shot to death while sitting in beach chairs at the popular beach resort of Pattaya. A 24-year-old laborer confessed to that crime, saying he had intended only to rob the women but "had to shoot them as they were yelling and screaming."

A 32-year-old Israeli tourist was stabbed to death during the Full Moon festival in Koh Phangan last April. A gang of teenagers, including the son of a local politician, are the chief suspects. In November, a 27-year-old Japanese woman was robbed and stabbed to death while visiting the ancient Thai capital of Sukhothai during the Loy Krathong water festival. The police say they are still investigating that killing.

In January, a Canadian tourist was shot to death and his wife wounded in the early morning outside a pub in the northern city of Mae Hong Son. A policeman confessed to the shooting, but said he had acted in self-defense when the couple assaulted him.

The Swedish tourist, Backlund, was stabbed to death while walking alone on a secluded beach far from residential areas. A police officer described the suspect as a peeping Tom who "loves to bring friends to this remote and quiet beach to look at naked tourists."

The Phuket governor, Nilan Gallayanamit, promised to increase security. "This case has really hurt Phuket's reputation," he said.

Source: International Herald Tribune

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Choochart Suwannakom, commander of the national Tourist Police:

Choochart played down the recent killings, saying, "I believe security in Thailand is better than in many other countries." He also said that some of the attacks were occasioned by the behavior of the women themselves. Under a front-page photograph of a Western woman in a skimpy bikini, The Bangkok Post quoted Choochart as saying, "They tend to choose a quiet spot away from other people, take off the bikini and sunbathe. That's when the attackers strike."

It's an utter scandal what this @ssXc#@ said.... :o:D :D

LaoPo

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Choochart Suwannakom, commander of the national Tourist Police:

Choochart played down the recent killings, saying, "I believe security in Thailand is better than in many other countries." He also said that some of the attacks were occasioned by the behavior of the women themselves. Under a front-page photograph of a Western woman in a skimpy bikini, The Bangkok Post quoted Choochart as saying, "They tend to choose a quiet spot away from other people, take off the bikini and sunbathe. That's when the attackers strike."

It's an utter scandal what this @ssXc#@ said.... :D:D:D

LaoPo

i'd like to ask "Mohhamed" for an opinion first :o

Edited by dee123
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In one of the Bangkok Post's other pieces they described the attacker as some

kind of "wayward sea gypsie" I'm surprised they didn't immediately come out

and insinuate he might be Burmese. You really want to give them the benefit

of the doubt but then they inevitably have to stick a little "spin" in there and

it really is distasteful. I was initially impressed with the quick Police work but

then they have to go a blame the victim because she was holidaying in Thailand.

I mean Thai girls often wear next to nothing in the wardrobe area, with this logic

we can explain any assaults they might have to endure as well.

Edited by cali4995
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Choochart Suwannakom, commander of the national Tourist Police:

Choochart played down the recent killings, saying, "I believe security in Thailand is better than in many other countries." He also said that some of the attacks were occasioned by the behavior of the women themselves. Under a front-page photograph of a Western woman in a skimpy bikini, The Bangkok Post quoted Choochart as saying, "They tend to choose a quiet spot away from other people, take off the bikini and sunbathe. That's when the attackers strike."

It's an utter scandal what this @ssXc#@ said.... :o:D:D

LaoPo

We in the west have disposed of any sense of responsibility. At the end of the day, we are all animals put on this planet to breed. You seem to expect that in other parts of the world from the usa people may see the removal of clothes and the exposure of sexual organs as anything other than sexual. If I waved my willy about on Patong beach I would be a child molester and criminal. If a woman exposes herself it seems to be a matter of "personal choice" and everybody elses fault around her if that is a problem.

What the hel_l else could exposure of the body be expected to bring about other than a stimualtion of the sexual organs of the viewer?

Would you have the same sypathy for me if I wandered round Sukhumvit road with 1,000,000 baht in notes strung round my neck in a chain and somebody robbed me.

This is a tragic and dispicable crime by any standards, but attacking Thais for suggesting that their opinions on the matter make them arseholeels if they don;t entirely correspond with westen thinking is a distraction from the crime.

This is not the US, and the populace are pretty conservative here. That inculdes many in the expat community, contrary to the opinions of some. Some people are entitled to their view that not exposing sexual organs may reduce the risk of exciting some wierdo (note, I did say wierdo!) and reduce the risk of the crime.

Can I call you an arsehollee on here if I disagree with something you say? Thought not! So don't try and come back at me saying I am excusing rape and any other standard responses you have to people of different opinions.

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Choochart Suwannakom, commander of the national Tourist Police:

Choochart played down the recent killings, saying, "I believe security in Thailand is better than in many other countries." He also said that some of the attacks were occasioned by the behavior of the women themselves. Under a front-page photograph of a Western woman in a skimpy bikini, The Bangkok Post quoted Choochart as saying, "They tend to choose a quiet spot away from other people, take off the bikini and sunbathe. That's when the attackers strike."

It's an utter scandal what this @ssXc#@ said.... :o:D :D

LaoPo

You are absolutely right LP. As long as this clown is in charge of the Tourist Police, nothing is going to get better. In most countries a cynical statement like this would be enough to get someone sacked. In Thailand, it only gets you a shrug of the shoulders. I really think a shrug of the shoulders should replace the wai as the national gesture.

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Choochart Suwannakom, commander of the national Tourist Police:

Choochart played down the recent killings, saying, "I believe security in Thailand is better than in many other countries." He also said that some of the attacks were occasioned by the behavior of the women themselves. Under a front-page photograph of a Western woman in a skimpy bikini, The Bangkok Post quoted Choochart as saying, "They tend to choose a quiet spot away from other people, take off the bikini and sunbathe. That's when the attackers strike."

It's an utter scandal what this @ssXc#@ said.... :D :D :D

LaoPo

The bloke is a tool pure and simple, and if a senior law enforcement officer :o has these sort of views it really is pretty sad. Shame on him. :D

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Maybe its time to loosen up the tourist visa and visa runner rules to welcome back the huge pool of people who really love Thailand, no matter what (good press, bad press, shirt press), who the Thai authorities given their special talent at killing the goose that laid the you know what ...

At the very least. how about lowering the retirement visa requirement to 30 or 40?

Edited by Jingthing
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I agree with Dupont. These are horrible inexcusable crimes but people should do all they can to protect themselves from being victims. You can take the sergeants advice or you can chose to be offended and put yourself at greater risk while saving your personal righteousness but maybe not your life. Unfortunately deep down we are still mostly animals. Anything you can do to prevent the animal response should be considered when you are unfamiliar places.

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Choochart Suwannakom, commander of the national Tourist Police:

Choochart played down the recent killings, saying, "I believe security in Thailand is better than in many other countries." He also said that some of the attacks were occasioned by the behavior of the women themselves. Under a front-page photograph of a Western woman in a skimpy bikini, The Bangkok Post quoted Choochart as saying, "They tend to choose a quiet spot away from other people, take off the bikini and sunbathe. That's when the attackers strike."

It's an utter scandal what this @ssXc#@ said.... :D:D:D

LaoPo

We in the west have disposed of any sense of responsibility. At the end of the day, we are all animals put on this planet to breed. You seem to expect that in other parts of the world from the usa people may see the removal of clothes and the exposure of sexual organs as anything other than sexual. If I waved my willy about on Patong beach I would be a child molester and criminal. If a woman exposes herself it seems to be a matter of "personal choice" and everybody elses fault around her if that is a problem.

What the hel_l else could exposure of the body be expected to bring about other than a stimualtion of the sexual organs of the viewer?

Would you have the same sypathy for me if I wandered round Sukhumvit road with 1,000,000 baht in notes strung round my neck in a chain and somebody robbed me.

This is a tragic and dispicable crime by any standards, but attacking Thais for suggesting that their opinions on the matter make them arseholeels if they don;t entirely correspond with westen thinking is a distraction from the crime.

This is not the US, and the populace are pretty conservative here. That inculdes many in the expat community, contrary to the opinions of some. Some people are entitled to their view that not exposing sexual organs may reduce the risk of exciting some wierdo (note, I did say wierdo!) and reduce the risk of the crime.

Can I call you an arsehollee on here if I disagree with something you say? Thought not! So don't try and come back at me saying I am excusing rape and any other standard responses you have to people of different opinions.

:D :D

Maybe you should join the Thai tourism Police.

And, if you're on, you might as well suggest to Mr. Choochart Suwannakom to have fliers printed and send them by -urgent- airmail and by the millions to the various inbound tourist countries with explicit beach dressing codes for women... :o

Rape and murder will end overnight...right ?

Would you prefer this ?

post-13995-1206320635_thumb.jpg

I think you should try and learn to read better !

These phrases are disgusting "He also said that some of the attacks were occasioned by the behavior of the women themselves." & ""They tend to choose a quiet spot away from other people, take off the bikini and sunbathe. That's when the attackers strike.

Now, I challenge you, Sir, WHERE you have seen (Farang) girls/women in Thailand who take off their bikini's to sunbath nud_e, enabling attackers to strike (read: rape and murder them).

:D

LaoPo

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Choochart Suwannakom, commander of the national Tourist Police:

Choochart played down the recent killings, saying, "I believe security in Thailand is better than in many other countries." He also said that some of the attacks were occasioned by the behavior of the women themselves. Under a front-page photograph of a Western woman in a skimpy bikini, The Bangkok Post quoted Choochart as saying, "They tend to choose a quiet spot away from other people, take off the bikini and sunbathe. That's when the attackers strike."

It's an utter scandal what this @ssXc#@ said.... :o:D:D

LaoPo

We in the west have disposed of any sense of responsibility. At the end of the day, we are all animals put on this planet to breed. You seem to expect that in other parts of the world from the usa people may see the removal of clothes and the exposure of sexual organs as anything other than sexual. If I waved my willy about on Patong beach I would be a child molester and criminal. If a woman exposes herself it seems to be a matter of "personal choice" and everybody elses fault around her if that is a problem.

What the hel_l else could exposure of the body be expected to bring about other than a stimualtion of the sexual organs of the viewer?

Would you have the same sypathy for me if I wandered round Sukhumvit road with 1,000,000 baht in notes strung round my neck in a chain and somebody robbed me.

This is a tragic and dispicable crime by any standards, but attacking Thais for suggesting that their opinions on the matter make them arseholeels if they don;t entirely correspond with westen thinking is a distraction from the crime.

This is not the US, and the populace are pretty conservative here. That inculdes many in the expat community, contrary to the opinions of some. Some people are entitled to their view that not exposing sexual organs may reduce the risk of exciting some wierdo (note, I did say wierdo!) and reduce the risk of the crime.

Can I call you an arsehollee on here if I disagree with something you say? Thought not! So don't try and come back at me saying I am excusing rape and any other standard responses you have to people of different opinions.

The she was asking for it idea doesn't wash any more. Crimes like these are terrible, and until Thai culture allows empowerment of women, Thai men will continue to be tittilated by the merest sign of flesh. As for wearing a bikini on a beach sunbathing, I believe it stimulates melanin.

Men in swimsuits don't spark gay rape, so obviously the idea that believing that the sign of a woman in bikini somehow sparking rape shows it is more associated with power and domination.

This so called conservative culture freely accepts rape of wifes', underage sex as long as it leads to marriage, the idea that sex with young girls promotes longevity, sexploitation, mia nois, the concept of daughters being the property of parents and all the other caveats that come with Thailand. This country is not conservative.

I am sure that the clothes police will be out in force for Songkran, wouldn't it be better to educate the impulsive and permissive males of this country at a young age to respect women better?

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I would like to make a further comment to mr. dupont since he agrees more or less with the commander of tourist Police with his disgusting comments towards Farang women and the way they dress, on the beach.

Thailand receive some 14 Million tourists/year and unfortunately has seen rapes, murders and other horrible cases lately which, also unfortunate, attracted a lot of negative publicity, worldwide and right so.

BUT: France, Spain and Italy have some 80 - 60 and 40 MILLION tourists per year respectively.

Now, do you think those countries have the same 'type' of rapes and murders (in equally % of numbers) as Thailand has if some horny guys see -under-dressed girls on the beaches ? I don't know where you're from but I could take you to some beaches in Europe....

NO.

It has -also- to do with the responsibility of the Thai Government, education of the male-population and adaption to the behavior of inbound tourists as well as a certain kind of higher civilization in the afore mentioned three countries.

Of course (attempted) rape does occur in those countries also but 'followed' by murder in far, far less cases than Thailand and it will certainly not be excused by Tourist authorities like the nut head from the Thai Tourist Police :D

What a jerck (sp!) :o

LaoPo

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This is very typical Thai behavour, blame someone else!!!

As suggested above, this is a load of rubbish, and if a UK or US police mentioned it was the victims fault they would be sacked! dont the police here a press office to screen and advise before these idiots quote in newspapers?

Could you imagine for example a black youth in the UK getting murdered in London, and the chief of police quoting that it was the VICTIMS fault for being black and you cannot blame the attacker ect ect ect... well it just wouldnt happen!

You need to solve the problems from the route!, alot of the cheif of police here and tourist stations really need outside training.... they need to be taught proper police work ect.......

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lao po

It has -also- to do with the responsibility of the Thai Government, education of the male-population and adaption to the behavior of inbound tourists as well as a certain kind of higher civilization in the afore mentioned three countries.

tourists are advised not to walk around wearing thick gold chains around their necks , if they do they are likely to be targeted by opportunist thieves.

when such robberies occur , the victim is often blamed for bringing the attack upon themselves.

the same care should be taken by women with their dress , they are not on the french riviera here.

nobody is blaming the victims here , its just the application of common sense , and an understanding of seeing things through thai eyes and not western eyes.

opportunist attackers do frequent these areas , and its a fact of thai life that western women are seen as sexually liberated by some thai men. those are facts , and its no good expecting the males to suddenly start to think and act like westerners , perhaps we should be thinking more like thais when in these situations , and taking the necessary precautions.

thai women , for the most part take great care when in remote areas , they wouldnt go alone , and they wouldnt dress in a way that would appear provocative to the local males , they know the possibilities of what may happen , they read about it daily in the thai press.

yes, attitudes towards western women in swimsuits should change towards the more respectful attitudes of the west , but until then , visitors need to be aware of how they are seen by locals , especially when alone with unsophisticated people.

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Unfortunately, most female tourists are unaware of these cultural attitudes. And so, find themselves victimised and even murdered because they haven't been made aware of certain cultural expectations. Perhaps pamphlets should be handed out to all women travellers to Thailand warning them that, although it appears to be quite safe and liberal, cultural expectations are different and that women need to be more cautious and more careful.

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'Beat up' tourists: Islamic cleric

Monday Mar 24 05:37 AEDT

Firebrand Islamic cleric Abu Bakar Bashir has called on his young Indonesian followers to attack tourists - including Australians - in a fiery sermon.

In the talk given in October last year Bashir urges his followers to "beat up" western tourists, whom he likened to "worms, snakes and maggots", The Australian newspaper reported on Monday.

"God willing there are none (tourists) here," he told the young Indonesian audience on October 22.

"If there were infidels here, just beat them up. Do not tolerate them.

"Worms, snakes, maggots - those are animals that crawl. Take a look at Bali ... those infidel tourists. They are naked."

Bashir was convicted of conspiracy over the 2002 Bali bombings - which killed 88 Australians - serving 26 months in prison.

Experts have interpreted Bashir's comments as a sign the cleric has become emboldened since being released from prison last year.

The speech was recorded by Australian PhD student Nathan Franklin, who is specialising in Indonesian politics.

"Going to jail, serving a very light sentence, and becoming a media icon - it's the best thing that's happened to him," Mr Franklin said.

Peter

Question: How many Southern Muslim Thais will take his warning to heart?

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The policeman is advising woman to be careful if sunbathing topless in a deserted place.

Thai visa members think that his advice should get him sacked, have I got that right?

No, he is saying that if you do sunbathe, women run the risk of being molested coz what is a man supposed to do if he sees a woman in a bikini. I mean after all we are just simple males with no control over our lust for the female form aren't we? No self control at all, we just can't help ourselves can we?

Must remember to chain my missus to the kitchen, because god knows what the gardener might do if he caught a glimpse of her uncovered ankle. Anyone know where I can buy a Burka on line?

And obviously, little old grannies shouldn't live alone because they get beaten up, and people shouldn't walk home alone at night because they risk getting beaten up, showing a bit of shoulder, (phwooah, fnar fnar), and as a previous poster mentioned, people shouldn't be black because it sparks racial violence. She was obviously asking for it guv.

The propensity of people to miss the point when things like this occur is quite astounding. He should at least engage his brain before allowing his mouth to move.

How about he tells everyone he is going to institute 24 hour police patrols of the beaches. But then again, who knows his poor policemen might not be able to control themselves also, coz you know, its really hot sitting on the beach all day, and someone might have an arguement with them and just happen to accidentally blow someones head off because he loses face. Shit happens. You know, what is any man to do when he has women with no clothes on in front of him? Obviously they can't control themselves coz it's human nature guv, for a man to act on his impulses.

But then again, he is an omniscient Thai male of standing, so obviously what he speaks must be the truth.

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I am dismayed at the suggestion that the victim is at fault for what happened to her because she isn't. The only crime she is probably guilty of is being naive and even that is questionable at 11:00 in the morning. This would have likely occurred if she had been 'fully' clothed. She was a young woman at the wrong place and there was an ill-intentioned person nearby.

I have lived/worked in quite a few countries and people do need to be aware of cultural sensitivities. While working in Iraq, I knew a lady was was attacked by one of her bodyguards. She was able to fend him off, rather easily even though he was armed. She was sunbathing in a two piece--very, very revealing for that part of the world. He was pretty sure she was inviting him to have sex with her.

One good slap and he was on his way. But he wasn't a rapist. He had no desire to overpower or control the lady. Both were alone, it was secluded. It was a case of mixed cultural signals.

Thailand is a land of contradictions (as are many places). In this case, I don't know that this poor young lady was a victim of the contradictions, I think she was a victim of someone who was a true rapist--otherwise, why would he have the knife and use it?

People need to remember that rape is about power and control and not about sex, per se.

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Unfortunately, most female tourists are unaware of these cultural attitudes. And so, find themselves victimised and even murdered because they haven't been made aware of certain cultural expectations. Perhaps pamphlets should be handed out to all women travellers to Thailand warning them that, although it appears to be quite safe and liberal, cultural expectations are different and that women need to be more cautious and more careful.

I don't see how it's a big mystery considering that some of the conservative cultural expectations are written into just about every single lonely planet and other guide book on Thailand. I think the truth is most tourists choose to actively disregard it..out of disdain or arrogance for the local culture we'll never know but they do so at their own peril.

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The policeman is advising woman to be careful if sunbathing topless in a deserted place.

Thai visa members think that his advice should get him sacked, have I got that right?

I often think there are difficulties in translations, best to not take too literally.

Naka.

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I can understand the anger at the Tourist Police chief's remarks, but I thought the story about the Kirsty Jones case was an even greater load of rot. Indeed, read between the lines in the Jones story, and it suggests very strongly that the former guesthouse boss Andy Gill was responsible for the rape and murder, but there wasn't enough evidence and so he got away overseas. Now, that may be fine if it was close to the truth, but journalists here who have covered this case - and no-one knows it better than Andrew Drummond, who helped do a documentary on the case - say the prime suspect for that scandal is a tourist policeman. That is also the very strong opinion of the Welsh/British police who have come here to look into the case. Probably a good load of moderators of this website would know that.

Frankly, the Bangkok Post has hardly covered itself in glory the way they allowed that cop to twist the facts - in its stories yesterday. The surge in murders of tourists in recent months is a worthy story and deserves front page attention. But the coverage of these is still haphazard.. we got a lot on the Pai shootings, as we should, but little on the Phetchabun case (Brit stabbed by local crazy, to be a bit crude), and nothing yet on the Indian stabbed at the Full Moon Party. The attitude is still, hope we can get away with as much as possible - ignore as many embarrassing crimes as possible, but when a really bad slaying occurs, such as the tragedy involving Ms Backlund, the police and tourist chiefs go overboard and come out with statements that only make themselves look stupid and focused primarily on the dollars it will cost them. Not the sad deaths of young foreigners on holiday.

If you want to look for reasons .. start with why good strong honest cops are sacked by dodgy governments (elected by the majority not withstanding) more interested in looking after their boss and bank accounts .. and replaced with patsies and yes-men.

Sacked: police chief Seri. Sacked: head of DSI plus 31 other top investigators.

Returned to active police work: Thaksin's brother in-law, among others.

And if you want a scandal, look at the cesspit that is Pattaya. Accused British pedophile Praill, otherwise known as 'The Ghost' was bailed after his fourth (or sixth?) arrest for alleged sexual misconduct with children.. a week ago. This is despite warnings from a local NGO (FACE) which claims to have a diary this long-term "sexpat" wrote revealing what he is really like.. and public warnings that if he was released on bail yet again he would reoffend. Still, he got bail.

The Andrew Drummond website has this story, and I would recommend people read it. I find the colorful style of this reporter's writing amusing, but underneath is probably one of the scandals of the year. There is very strong suggestion the Pattaya police are seriously on the take; no staggering surprise on that. But I'm just waiting for the middle class Thais to notice this case and demand stronger action.

Praill has denied wrongdoing but the repeated arrests make his denials look mighty hollow.

But for Thailand, when they bail people like this, you know the system is rotten to the core. Little wonder farang feel contempt for authorities here. I find it hard to believe a police chief such as Seri would have allowed this, despite all the other things they have to oversee.

I hope Chalerm can rise to this challenge, but I suspect when governments have their own devious agendas they fail to manage as well as people who are straight (for me, the Surayud government, as "boring" as they supposedly were).

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When I 1st read Choochart's comments I went <deleted>, but appreciate that he's commenting within the context of Thailand. Whether or not we agree with the sentiments, this is how many Thai people think. What he was trying to say is that foreign visitors should educate themselves about the country they are visiting. No matter where one is, going about in skimpy attire in a secluded area is not a recommended practice. This obviously does not excuse any attacks, but serves to prevent others.They can't put a cop at every street corner. That was his intent. Was it really such a bad thing to state the obvious? "They tend to choose a quiet spot away from other people, take off the bikini and sunbathe. That's when the attackers strike." Unfortunately, that's an M.O. that repeats itself on the beaches of Greece, France, USA and Australia as well.

I'm not excusing, condoning or rationalizing rape & murder, just noting that the fellow was asking for common sense.

Edited by geriatrickid
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When I 1st read Choochart's comments I went <deleted>, but appreciate that he's commenting within the context of Thailand. Whether or not we agree with the sentiments, this is how many Thai people think. What he was trying to say is that foreign visitors should educate themselves about the country they are visiting. No matter where one is, going about in skimpy attire in a secluded area is not a recommended practice. This obviously does not excuse any attacks, but serves to prevent others.They can't put a cop at every street corner. That was his intent. Was it really such a bad thing to state the obvious? "They tend to choose a quiet spot away from other people, take off the bikini and sunbathe. That's when the attackers strike." Unfortunately, that's an M.O. that repeats itself on the beaches of Greece, France, USA and Australia as well.

I'm not excusing, condoning or rationalizing rape & murder, just noting that the fellow was asking for common sense.

He's completely right too. The people lining up screeching "misogyny" or "insensitivity" at his remarks have obviously never considered that many tourists disregard common sense on holiday. It's just how people are.

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Sorry boys and girls, the civilized world never blames the victim for the crime. A crime is a violation of law and there are no "its okay if....". We call those yabuts. Its against the law, yeah but its okay if..... Yabuts dont work with judges, the law is the law.

Having said that, there is a certain darwinism at work. Common sense and experience teaches us not to wear expensive jewelry and wander around nefarious places. The women I know are all too aware of the male ability for violence, particularly when traveling, and take appropriate precautions. Any third world country (read that as any country outside the rule of law) is a place to observe extreme caution and diligence. If not, the probability of being removed from the gene pool increases. Could more be done? Probably. Will anything be done, probably not. Its a question of education and resources, of which Thailand has very little to address these problems.

You can legitimately say that victims are not too bright, lack common sense, or were just plain naive, but you cannot assign mea culpa to them in any way. After all, often victims pay the most terrible price for their ignorance or stupidity while perpetrators seldom pay an equal share as a result of their assault and disregard for society and complete lack of empathy. No one deserves to pay the price as a victim, no matter the circumstances, to assign guilt to a victim is a poor way of excusing a dysfunctional social system.

The IHT article raises some good points, exposing the dark underbelly of Thai tourism that is so carefully shielded from exposure by the authorities. I dont think it goes overboard or sensationalizes any particular aspect. Most important, why do you think they added the incendiary line from the head of police

He also said that some of the attacks were occasioned by the behavior of the women themselves
? Any civilized person reading that quote can immediately make judgment on the thought process and cultural framework of the speaker. The warning on coming to Thailand could not be clearer without opening up the paper to libel.

Blame people for ignorance, blame them for stupidity, blame them for being naive, blame them for being too friendly and too trusting, blame them for drunkenness (a major cause of crime and victimization) but never blame someone for being a victim of crime.

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All over Thailand men and women sunbathe topless. It only seems to be an excuse for violence when women do it, I notice.

The place Hanna was slaughtered isn't that remote, you can see the umbrellas at the bungalows she was staying at. She was wearing a bikini taking a walk at high noon ( The Nation reports in 3 separate articles the attack took place at night ) and was on the return leg when attacked .

This isn't about being horny. This is about hating women because of the sexual power they have.

I want to know if Mr. Tankae was raised Muslim cause I think that has a huge bearing.

Sexually suppressed boys grow to be rapists and murderers. I don't believe for moment he needed a huge kithchen knife to rape her, he is a large man who ould have easily overpowered her. He was going to kill her no matter what, and he should get the death penalty.

Anyone have any idea why initial reports had the police looking for several attackers???

It was reported in the Nation the 2 fisherman on Samui who murdered Katherine Horton, the young Welsh woma, are serving lifetime sentences, not death. Any sourced news, reliable sourced news I should say- on this??

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Now, I challenge you, Sir, WHERE you have seen (Farang) girls/women in Thailand who take off their bikini's to sunbath nud_e, enabling attackers to strike (read: rape and murder them).

:o

LaoPo

well i'm not entirely sure what you mean by this, but i've seen plenty take their tops off right on kata beach.

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Sorry boys and girls, the civilized world never blames the victim for the crime. A crime is a violation of law and there are no "its okay if....". We call those yabuts. Its against the law, yeah but its okay if..... Yabuts dont work with judges, the law is the law.

Having said that, there is a certain darwinism at work. Common sense and experience teaches us not to wear expensive jewelry and wander around nefarious places. The women I know are all too aware of the male ability for violence, particularly when traveling, and take appropriate precautions. Any third world country (read that as any country outside the rule of law) is a place to observe extreme caution and diligence. If not, the probability of being removed from the gene pool increases. Could more be done? Probably. Will anything be done, probably not. Its a question of education and resources, of which Thailand has very little to address these problems.

You can legitimately say that victims are not too bright, lack common sense, or were just plain naive, but you cannot assign mea culpa to them in any way. After all, often victims pay the most terrible price for their ignorance or stupidity while perpetrators seldom pay an equal share as a result of their assault and disregard for society and complete lack of empathy. No one deserves to pay the price as a victim, no matter the circumstances, to assign guilt to a victim is a poor way of excusing a dysfunctional social system.

The IHT article raises some good points, exposing the dark underbelly of Thai tourism that is so carefully shielded from exposure by the authorities. I dont think it goes overboard or sensationalizes any particular aspect. Most important, why do you think they added the incendiary line from the head of police

He also said that some of the attacks were occasioned by the behavior of the women themselves
? Any civilized person reading that quote can immediately make judgment on the thought process and cultural framework of the speaker. The warning on coming to Thailand could not be clearer without opening up the paper to libel.

Blame people for ignorance, blame them for stupidity, blame them for being naive, blame them for being too friendly and too trusting, blame them for drunkenness (a major cause of crime and victimization) but never blame someone for being a victim of crime.

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Unfortunately, most female tourists are unaware of these cultural attitudes. And so, find themselves victimised and even murdered because they haven't been made aware of certain cultural expectations. Perhaps pamphlets should be handed out to all women travellers to Thailand warning them that, although it appears to be quite safe and liberal, cultural expectations are different and that women need to be more cautious and more careful.

I don't see how it's a big mystery considering that some of the conservative cultural expectations are written into just about every single lonely planet and other guide book on Thailand. I think the truth is most tourists choose to actively disregard it..out of disdain or arrogance for the local culture we'll never know but they do so at their own peril.

Well then in that case, they may as well stop marketing Thailand as a Western holiday destination.

How is it possible to hold Thai culture in any type of esteem when several of the major tourist destinations are overrun with red light districts?

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