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Thais Scramble To Allay Tourist Fears After Recent Assaults


sbk

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Well, I have to be honest here Donna, way way back when I had to go to Penang to get a visa, I got stared at by the local guys, followed, offered drinks etc. I was wearing long pants (trousers for you British people) and a shirt with sleeves and it was buttoned up to my neck. The next time I went with my husband, wearing the exact same conservative clothing, and got nothing. The local Chinese girls were wearing mini-skirts and tank tops and got nothing. But then, of course, the guys had to be careful with them, their brother could be in a triad or something whereas I was just another easy white girl. Regardless of the clothing I wore.

i agree sbk with what you say. i was also asked for a quickie from some sleaze on the side of the road, and i was wearing long trousers and covered shoulders. my main point is that some girls just dont get it. they ignore all advice given and then complain when something not so pleasant happens.

and i agree with Plus, too, re one rule for locals and one rule for western.

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Well, I have to be honest here Donna, way way back when I had to go to Penang to get a visa, I got stared at by the local guys, followed, offered drinks etc. I was wearing long pants (trousers for you British people) and a shirt with sleeves and it was buttoned up to my neck. The next time I went with my husband, wearing the exact same conservative clothing, and got nothing. The local Chinese girls were wearing mini-skirts and tank tops and got nothing. But then, of course, the guys had to be careful with them, their brother could be in a triad or something whereas I was just another easy white girl. Regardless of the clothing I wore.

i agree sbk with what you say. i was also asked for a quickie from some sleaze on the side of the road, and i was wearing long trousers and covered shoulders. my main point is that some girls just dont get it. they ignore all advice given and then complain when something not so pleasant happens.

and i agree with Plus, too, re one rule for locals and one rule for western.

Agree, it goes both ways. The girls who dress inappropriately certainly don't help the situation but unfortunately it doesn't seem to matter to some men what the girl is wearing or not wearing.

So, what is the Thai govt going to do next, wait for it to all calm down and sweep it under the carpet or do you think that something will actually be done to increase security for tourists in major tourist destinations:?

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Exactly, Sbk. Local girls wear as little clothing as possible but they are still viewed as chaste while farangs are all sluts by default.

To be fair, some farang women are sloppy drunks and act very slutty when drunk and although they are a minority they make a big impression on the locals as they really stand out.

A local girl being a noisy flirty drunk is background noise and unmemorable to a local.

They only need to see this a few times to get the impression that farang girls are slutty

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i believe it will be swept under the carpet, unfortunately. i do not, for a minute, believe that issuing whistles will do anything to make women feel more safe. we can demand cameras etc, but that will not help the situation in my opinion. they will not be installed on remote beaches, and the authorities will not man them anyway. remember, phuket is an island that turns off traffic lights at 9pm, more than likely to save money, so there is no way they will spend any more on security.

i am gonna go out on a limb here and say its the locals that need to be educated here. a strong television campaign (face it, most thais are glued to the box in the evenings) with both thai and western women involved needs to be launched. along the lines of the 'no means no' campaign a few years back in australia. any country which allows spousal rape is in serious need of education in my opinion.

local women need to stand up for their rights and not allow this to happen to them any longer. only then will these 'men' start to understand that rape is just not on.

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Just to get this thread back on OT:

If 5000 dead in the tsunami did not lastingly harm tourism in thailand, I strongly doubt a string of fait divers will either. We can see stuff just as scary or worse on the daily headlines of most so-called "first world" countries.

However I do agree that we as expats, and the thai authorities themselves should make every possible effort to help both thai and farang women be safe in every situation while wearing outfits as skimpy as they like to. Therein lies the road to real civilization. :o

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Nothing will change over this murder, nor any of the other ones. Thailand will only make changes when the money stops, and it will be too late. TIT.

Yes you are of course correct. But in the interim, as I suggested earlier, is there anything we can do to get the message across. Do we need to write to various people, go on western forums, write to western media, governments, take a full page advert in the Bangkok Post warning tourists, or (you'll like this one) protest outside parliament house, various embassies The U.N.. I don't know. Just ideas. However these things need to be done as a community/group or it will fall flat. In lies the problem. How much do we really care to get out of our comfort zones, maybe risk deportation or something like that to get a result.

We could have a "Keep your Hands Off Wersteners" campaign.

Yeah I know what most of you are thinking...it's a pipe dream. Next......................!

No such thing will ever happen. There is no such thing as a Farang community, nor a group of Farangs seeking anything for any group, much less a community. Why do you think things are as they are. Even our own governments couldn't care less about none of this, nor any other bad shit, that happens to people here, or anywhere else. Everyone is only making a little noise , claiming to be shocked about this, to be politically correct, and to be viewed as a sensitive individual or entity. Only money talks, the rest is all bullshit.

Yes i am saddened to have to agree with you. Then what hope do we have? we're forked!

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Unfortunately, most female tourists are unaware of these cultural attitudes. And so, find themselves victimised and even murdered because they haven't been made aware of certain cultural expectations. Perhaps pamphlets should be handed out to all women travellers to Thailand warning them that, although it appears to be quite safe and liberal, cultural expectations are different and that women need to be more cautious and more careful.

You took the words right out of my mouth. These female tourists really need an education. Most female tourists know the requirements when they visit Muslim countries, so why not give them a pre-vacation education on Thailand and its customs.

These photos were taken recently on Koh Larn. This beach was full of Asian tourists on this day as it is on most days. Even I was shocked.

The topless girl didn't just sit around like that, she walked around topless and was wearing a G-string too.

post-34982-1206559095_thumb.jpgpost-34982-1206559104_thumb.jpg

Dang! :D Is this a clip from Animal Planet? beached White Whales....... :o

ewwwwwwwwwwwwww

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and PLEASE remember, in some muslime dominated countries she probably would be stoned, whipped, or other wise punished BY THE STATE or religious authorities (Iran, Saudi Arabia, UAE)!

we must also remember that this is thailand, and not Iran, Saudi Arabia or UAE!

What Religion the "alleged murderer" belonged to?

What Religion dominates in the south of Thailand parts of Puket included?

.........edit......

And as for Iran etc, they don't pose themselves as holiday destinations last I looked. Maybe Thailand should ban female beach tourists in that case.

see above.... no it's not iran, but this doesn't change the presence of muslim communities with their beliefs, values and customs!

...edit........

Well I'm sure every Scandinavian girl will want to vacation in sunny Iran, Saudi Arabia, or the UAE. Words fail me when I read posts like this. :o

You be surprised how many you find in Egypt, Tunesia AND in the UAE, but there they respect the dress code!

In Saudi Arabia she'd be probably stoned, BUT, after due process, by law.

In Thailand they let deranged maniacs to rape or murder any woman at random in retaliation. See the difference?

Nowhere does it say that all foreign women could be punished collectively for transgressions by any foreign female in the living memory.

Yes I DO SEE the DIFFERENCE!

I tried to refer to the COMMON SENSE of behavior IN MUSLIM Communities!

Red highlited: sure... "they let..."

Who is "they"? :D

.....edit........

the same group was in penang and all the girls came back telling me that they hated the place as 'all the men stare at us'. i told them to go up, take a look in the mirror and tell me why they think these men would be staring at them. yep. they were dressed in exactly what i had told them not to dress in.

............edit...... but they ALWAYS fail to read the all important chapter about behaviour and polite dress.

sorry, this is way off topic and has nothing to do with what happened on phuket, but i thought that i should say it anyway.

THANKS for the statement!

You honestly believe that "this has nothing to do, with what happened in Puket"?

To all the others who believe I am condemning the girl for it's behavior and blame her for what happened... you far off... it's about politenes and dress code, about awareness in which society you are moving around.

Yes in some muslim countries, western female right-activists thoughts combined with ignorance are certainly a call for desaster!

As it has been stated that EVEN PROPER Dressing, could lead to "being stared at" has to do with previous behavior of former and fellow visitors.... and in many muslim countries it is simply a "No-No" to be without an male/female escort....

Ahh well.... the rest is a clash of opinions... it has been stated here that few seem to read the recommendations of the Travel Guide books, less so to follow them up!

The only ever attempted rape case that occurred in the time (13 years) working in hotel/tourism industry in Thailand, occurred, when a female decided to have a Midnight nud_e bath on a deserted beach on Ko Samui - she was very lucky to have got away almost unharmed - she was drunk as well - after the incident she said herself that what she did was outright stupid and very irresponsible!

She was lucky to be still alive!

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Just to get this thread back on OT:

If 5000 dead in the tsunami did not lastingly harm tourism in thailand, I strongly doubt a string of fait divers will either. We can see stuff just as scary or worse on the daily headlines of most so-called "first world" countries.

However I do agree that we as expats, and the thai authorities themselves should make every possible effort to help both thai and farang women be safe in every situation while wearing outfits as skimpy as they like to. Therein lies the road to real civilization. :o

Anyone remember that hotel that burned in pattaya about 12 years ago and 80 odd tourists died. The hotel manager kept the escape doors locked as he didn't want anyone to sneak out and avoid their bill.

At the time they said it would hurt tourism but the numbers were up that same year.

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Just to get this thread back on OT:

If 5000 dead in the tsunami did not lastingly harm tourism in thailand, I strongly doubt a string of fait divers will either. We can see stuff just as scary or worse on the daily headlines of most so-called "first world" countries.

However I do agree that we as expats, and the thai authorities themselves should make every possible effort to help both thai and farang women be safe in every situation while wearing outfits as skimpy as they like to. Therein lies the road to real civilization. :o

Anyone remember that hotel that burned in pattaya about 12 years ago and 80 odd tourists died. The hotel manager kept the escape doors locked as he didn't want anyone to sneak out and avoid their bill.

At the time they said it would hurt tourism but the numbers were up that same year.

Ironically, 2 months before, the safety officer from my company had attended a meeting there.

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samuian, most guidebooks say that it is quite ok for a woman to wear a swimsuit on beach resort areas of thailand. they do say that topless and nud_e bathing are illegal.

as far as the victim was aware, she was in an area where it should be safe to wear a swimsuit. i think that her clothing is irrelevant to what happened. this 'man' was out to kill somebody no matter what they were wearing.

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You can make an impression on Thais around you.

They didn't get their stereotypes from nowhere, it's from people like us.

If ever there was a ridiculous statement this was it. Thai kids have nonsense drummed into them about farangs from the earliest of ages.

How about the word farang? Ask any Thai what it means and they will say "foreigner". Ask them if Malays, Chinese or any other non white race are farangs and they will say no. Farang means a western white person. From an early age Thais have a prejuduce towards farang. How many times have you seen an adult with a small child point to a white person and say "farang, farang".

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People will still come to Thailand at high numbers no matter about

safety . People forget quickly .

And most of all , most of the tourists do not have a clue what is going on .

They only see nice beaches and wild life (not the national parks).

Edited by tijnebijn
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samuian, most guidebooks say that it is quite ok for a woman to wear a swimsuit on beach resort areas of thailand. they do say that topless and nud_e bathing are illegal.

as far as the victim was aware, she was in an area where it should be safe to wear a swimsuit. i think that her clothing is irrelevant to what happened. this 'man' was out to kill somebody no matter what they were wearing.

I can't see anywhere that topless is illegal. It is "frowned upon".

Naked is reportedly illegal.

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^ Given that most accepted that the tsunami was a 'once in 500 years occurrence', its effect was therefore limited.

Regards

I doubt that very much. There's been a few decent size earthquakes in the same area since the big one in December 2004.

March 28, 2005 an earthquake killed 1,300 in Sumatra.

Another on March 7, 2007 killed 71 more.

Just last month on February 26 (2008) an earthquake rated 7.0 on the richter scale rocked Sumatra and triggered a tsunami warning.

The December 2004 tsunami may have just been a warning of more to come.

Edited by tropo
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samuian, most guidebooks say that it is quite ok for a woman to wear a swimsuit on beach resort areas of thailand. they do say that topless and nud_e bathing are illegal.

as far as the victim was aware, she was in an area where it should be safe to wear a swimsuit. i think that her clothing is irrelevant to what happened. this 'man' was out to kill somebody no matter what they were wearing.

I can't see anywhere that topless is illegal. It is "frowned upon".

Naked is reportedly illegal.

“Section 388 of the Penal Code of Thailand states, “Whoever does any shameful act in public by indecently exposing his or her person, or by committing another indecent act, shall be punished with fine not exceeding 500 baht.”

However, we have never charged any tourist with this because Phuket is a tourist destination.”

Monday, January 5, 2004 Pol Lt Col Panudech Sukwong, Superintendent, Phuket Tourist Police.

(Taken from Phuket Gazette archives)

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You can make an impression on Thais around you.

They didn't get their stereotypes from nowhere, it's from people like us.

If ever there was a ridiculous statement this was it. Thai kids have nonsense drummed into them about farangs from the earliest of ages.

And that nonsense came from where? Where do you think Thais get their stereotypes from? It's not an isolated communist country for crying out loud, especially tourist areas.

Do you mean to say that their stereotypes are totally baseless? No fugly sex tourists in Pattaya?

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samuian, most guidebooks say that it is quite ok for a woman to wear a swimsuit on beach resort areas of thailand. they do say that topless and nud_e bathing are illegal.

as far as the victim was aware, she was in an area where it should be safe to wear a swimsuit. i think that her clothing is irrelevant to what happened. this 'man' was out to kill somebody no matter what they were wearing.

I can't see anywhere that topless is illegal. It is "frowned upon".

Naked is reportedly illegal.

“Section 388 of the Penal Code of Thailand states, “Whoever does any shameful act in public by indecently exposing his or her person, or by committing another indecent act, shall be punished with fine not exceeding 500 baht.”

However, we have never charged any tourist with this because Phuket is a tourist destination.”

Monday, January 5, 2004 Pol Lt Col Panudech Sukwong, Superintendent, Phuket Tourist Police.

(Taken from Phuket Gazette archives)

Thanks for digging it up. So that clears up one ambiguity with another.

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You can make an impression on Thais around you.

They didn't get their stereotypes from nowhere, it's from people like us.

If ever there was a ridiculous statement this was it. Thai kids have nonsense drummed into them about farangs from the earliest of ages.

And that nonsense came from where? Where do you think Thais get their stereotypes from? It's not an isolated communist country for crying out loud, especially tourist areas.

Do you mean to say that their stereotypes are totally baseless? No fugly sex tourists in Pattaya?

And yes, Thai kids are fed nonsense also. Didn't you realise we are an uncultured, unloving, promiscuous, ungenerous, un-family orientated bunch.

Of course there are plenty of fugly sex tourists in Pattaya, simple remedy. Close the bars.

As a lighter aside, now that the inside of a bar has been deemed a public place to cover anti-smoking legislation, does that not by definition, make any nudity that goes on inside causing a public disturbance?

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samuian, most guidebooks say that it is quite ok for a woman to wear a swimsuit on beach resort areas of thailand. they do say that topless and nud_e bathing are illegal.

as far as the victim was aware, she was in an area where it should be safe to wear a swimsuit. i think that her clothing is irrelevant to what happened. this 'man' was out to kill somebody no matter what they were wearing.

I can't see anywhere that topless is illegal. It is "frowned upon".

Naked is reportedly illegal.

“Section 388 of the Penal Code of Thailand states, “Whoever does any shameful act in public by indecently exposing his or her person, or by committing another indecent act, shall be punished with fine not exceeding 500 baht.”

However, we have never charged any tourist with this because Phuket is a tourist destination.”

Monday, January 5, 2004 Pol Lt Col Panudech Sukwong, Superintendent, Phuket Tourist Police.

(Taken from Phuket Gazette archives)

Thanks for digging it up. So that clears up one ambiguity with another.

Reading the article this was concerning nudity and other nasties, not topless sunbathing.

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This thread has even more rubbish than most. (I hate the Thai can do no bad mob)

Thailand is set up as a holiday destination, and glossy ads are sent out by the Thai authorities to countries all over the World. These ads show happy people on beaches in skimpy bathing suits, walking on secluded beaches with exotic drinks in hand and generally having a carefree holiday in a paradise.

It is thus the same Thai authorities responsibility to protect said tourists when they arrive here and behave in the way that the advertising promotes.

A list of things that the authorities have an obligation to protect said tourists from include; Drunk policemen killing said tourists. Horny fishermen killing said tourists. Jealous local boys killing said tourists. Mafia wannabes killing said tourists, etc etc

A list of irresponsible behaviour by said authorities would include; Avoiding prosecuting policemen at all costs. Pointing the finger at foreign migrant workers for as many crimes as possible. Senior politicians accusing foreign women's dress code as being their own death sentence (the dress code being identical to the Thai promotional ads...). Protecting the children of wealthy folk at all costs. Covering up as many crimes as possible to avoid 'embarassment, etc etc

Conclusion; Thai authorities are badly letting down the foreign tourists.

My opinion; This is unlikely to change any time soon. 10%, 25%, 50% or 100% of foreign tourists could be murdered, and the Thai authorities would not lift a finger to protect them. If they make money short term then they are happy. End of story.

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I do believe that the circumstances of Hanna's death is not unique to Thailand. Holiday companies love to describe idyllic, romantic beaches, where there is only you and the sea. Absolute paradise! It could be Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia or wherever. But the real scenario is common to all these countries. Under the very thin 5-star veneer is a third-world country with all the problems and issues that face a developing country.

For tourists in Thailand, everything is paradise until the 'real' Thailand catches up with them....

Simon

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Has this really got anything to do with Thai culture or nudity? I remember when I lived in the UK (supposedly a very liberal, equalitarian country) being shocked by rape statistics. It was something like 1 in 4 women would be a survivor of a sexual assault. So the liberal, equalitarian attitudes did not seem to stop the minority of deranged individuals from committing crimes. Neither did the almost continual sub-zero temperatures and so lack of nudity.

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This thread has even more rubbish than most. (I hate the Thai can do no bad mob)

Thailand is set up as a holiday destination, and glossy ads are sent out by the Thai authorities to countries all over the World. These ads show happy people on beaches in skimpy bathing suits, walking on secluded beaches with exotic drinks in hand and generally having a carefree holiday in a paradise.

It is thus the same Thai authorities responsibility to protect said tourists when they arrive here and behave in the way that the advertising promotes.

A list of things that the authorities have an obligation to protect said tourists from include; Drunk policemen killing said tourists. Horny fishermen killing said tourists. Jealous local boys killing said tourists. Mafia wannabes killing said tourists, etc etc

A list of irresponsible behaviour by said authorities would include; Avoiding prosecuting policemen at all costs. Pointing the finger at foreign migrant workers for as many crimes as possible. Senior politicians accusing foreign women's dress code as being their own death sentence (the dress code being identical to the Thai promotional ads...). Protecting the children of wealthy folk at all costs. Covering up as many crimes as possible to avoid 'embarassment, etc etc

Conclusion; Thai authorities are badly letting down the foreign tourists.

My opinion; This is unlikely to change any time soon. 10%, 25%, 50% or 100% of foreign tourists could be murdered, and the Thai authorities would not lift a finger to protect them. If they make money short term then they are happy. End of story.

This is the best post so far...well said (IMO).

Edited by CymruAmByth
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Has this really got anything to do with Thai culture or nudity? I remember when I lived in the UK (supposedly a very liberal, equalitarian country) being shocked by rape statistics. It was something like 1 in 4 women would be a survivor of a sexual assault. So the liberal, equalitarian attitudes did not seem to stop the minority of deranged individuals from committing crimes. Neither did the almost continual sub-zero temperatures and so lack of nudity.

Sh!t...1 in 4 Brits raping innocent women? A minority? 25% of the male population sexually assaulting? Methinks you read (past tense) wrong.

Continual Sub-Zero temperatures? http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/200.../averages1.html

Take a look at the UK annual average low temp at 6 degrees.

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story..eh? :o

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.....edit....that topless and nud_e bathing are illegal. ...

Thanx, my point! :o and there is a reason behind this..

and that Authorities "Letting foreign tourist down" is the utmost rubbish I EVER read so far!

It is in ANY country impossible for the Authorities to control and protect everybody and everthing!

In my country of birth, Germany and in many other European "civilized countries, with a "proper, non-corrupt" Police Force, and judicial System, people, even of old age, are beaten and kicked at random into the ICU... foreigners, migrants, especially Turks and of Arab Origin are treated like 2nd or 3rd class humans(by some)...arson attacks to their property... is this a common occurrence here in T.?

P.S.

I as an employee in Thailand have recently WON a Labor Court case against a former employer on unfair dismissal!

get real!

Edited by Samuian
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