Trip Back Home To Meet The Parents In Kk For Song Kran

[jfchandler]

Just returned from a Song Kran trip to KK with my TGF where I wanted to (and did) meet her parents and family for the first time. It was a VERY interesting experience, and I could REALLY use some advice from the veteran Isan hands here --- my basic question is.... How reasonable/normal is their request????

First... some background.... I live in BKK, mid 40s, and I met the lady (mid 20s, never married, no children) a few months ago. She is a university graduate and working an office job in BKK now, but her family (Mom, Dad (a school teacher) and relatives) lives in a small village about an hour outside KK city. She never has had anything to do with the bar scene or P4P... I think she's great and beautiful, and we made a good couple together. When we're together, I always cover our expenses as the man.. But she's never asked me for any money or to pay for anything, and sometimes instead wants to pay for things herself (such as shopping) from her own salary money.

So, we stayed at the Kosa Hotel, and her family (Mom, Dad and two aunts) drove into town. We met together at the hotel for about two hours talking and getting to know, and then went for dinner together. They wanted to go to MK at the nearby mall, and I paid of course. And then after dinner, I bought a bottle of Johnnie Walker Black as a gift for her father, since I wanted to get a greeting gift for the family. By my TGF's account that night, the meeting and evening went fine, and she told me her parents liked me and were happy.

So the next morning, we're staying in the hotel and the family has gone back to their village, and my GF is talking on the phone with her mom. Then, off the phone, and quiet quiet, not talking any more. Then hugging me and crying crying.... Finally, after about an hour of coaxing, she finally tells me her family doesn't think I can "take care" of her. Then more more talking, and finally the next day, she tells me her Mom told her the family doesn't want her to see me any more at all. All of this, I find pretty strange and shocking, since I'm not lacking in resources, and have a professional career and demeanor... not a scruffy backpacker.

So, while not expert in the ways of Isan, I have learned a bit during my time in Thailand, so I ask the GF to put two questions to her family: why do they think I can't "take care" for her, and what can I do to make the family feel comfortable with us as a couple? More phone calls and talking, and then finally the answer is relayed: the family has an old house (western, not rural Thai style), but they want me to build a new house for the family in their village on their land, assuming we get married. And the idea is, the parents would live there, and there'd also be a place for the GF and I when we come from BKK to stay in the village at times.

It also seems, my TGF has an aunt in the village (late 30s, two children, divorced from Thai husband) who recently has acquired an English BF. And while I'm not sure they are actually married, the TGF tells me he has just finished building a new two bedroom house for him and the lady and her children that cost above 1 million baht. So, my GF tells me that everyone in her family and the village would be happy if I did the same like that, about 1 million baht.

So, my GF's basic idea (after talking to her family) is we would get married and I'd pay to build the house for her family. The family wouldn't be looking for any sin sod (other than the house) and wouldn't need to have a wedding ceremony/party or baht gold, etc. Now, at 1 million baht, that works out to about $32,000 U.S., which is well within my ability to afford.

But, as much as I like/love this lady, the way her family handled the situation really has put me off. I remember someone saying that when you marry a Thai lady, you don't just marry her, you also marry her family. So basically, the family doesn't care if their daughter has a formal wedding or a wedding party or baht gold or whatever. They care if her husband builds a house for the family. And more than anything else, they seem concerned that whatever we do "shows" to everyone else in the village that their daughter married a farang who can take care....

I'm not sure what to do about all this... I think this lady is a keeper for me... But, the family gives me the creeps.... And, add to that, the fact that basically I'd have no legal ownership/rights to the KK house that I'd paid to build, because of the laws in Thailand re farang property ownership...and all the horror stories about those kinds of situations.

Or, maybe I'm just not understanding of the normal custom for an Isan family about these things... Help!!!!!!!

[soundman]

Sorry to say, I think "a couple of months" is a little too soon to go throwing a Million Baht at. What happens if the family agree now & change their minds as soon as their daughter's house is finished on their daughters land?

No matter if you stay together with the girl, the realtionship will sour because of the family.

Soundman.

[nidge]

So the next morning, we're staying in the hotel and the family has gone back to their village, and my GF is talking on the phone with her mom. Then, off the phone, and quiet quiet, not talking any more. Then hugging me and crying crying.... Finally, after about an hour of coaxing, she finally tells me her family doesn't think I can "take care" of her. T

On the phone with her mum.... You think her mum was really telling her that? I would bet my next months salary that the crying scene was planned.

[onzestan]

Sorry to say, I think "a couple of months" is a little too soon to go throwing a Million Baht at. What happens if the family agree now & change their minds as soon as their daughter's house is finished on their daughters land?

No matter if you stay together with the girl, the relationship will sour because of the family.

Soundman.

Very, very true I'm sorry to say.

And please keep in mind that they consider the 1 Million Baht House as a gift, so no ownership claims from you are expected.

Time to move on I'm afraid.

onzestan

[ronthompson]

I do believe u are being taken, it just goes to show that the background of the woman can be a bar girl of a University Grad the end result came be the same.

The bottom line has been stated many times in TV spend what u can afford to walk away from. IMHO u may be walking quickly.

I have not been hit with the buy me bug from my wife, but I have seen it happen to others.

Many wonderful women in Thailand and a few that can make u happy but at a very high cost. KEEP LOOKING!

[bergen]

Bad behaviour from girlfriend and her family.

Be very careful, the parents are obviously looking for "showcase house" money, not "happyness" or good live for the daughter. If you want a future with this girl, tell her it does not include her family, and settle down far away from KK. If she don't agree..............................walk away.

There are plenty of good Isaan girls - and parents

[Lite Beer]

Tell her that your money is all tied up in investments for a year or 2 and cannot do anything yet.

See if she is willing to wait.

[khunandy]

Bad behaviour from girlfriend and her family.

Be very careful, the parents are obviously looking for "showcase house" money, not "happyness" or good live for the daughter. If you want a future with this girl, tell her it does not include her family, and settle down far away from KK. If she don't agree..............................walk away.

There are plenty of good Isaan girls - and parents

Good advice from bergen......you will get more respect from the family if you explain that you are the treasurer and any decisions about house building are entirly up to you. Seems like you have 3 options

1. Humour them to buy time and see how the relationship develops

2. Let it be known that there are two cultures to consider here and if you are happy with her family a house is not out of the question

3. Buckle under the pressure and forever be a slave to the one upmanship that obviously exists within this family

I still think it is extremely bad behaviour from the family and a bad sign that your girlfriend doesnt appear to have a stronger personality to deal with the situation. She will be your conduit in all future financial decisions and negotiations in the relationship with this family and it is important for you to know very early whose interests she has at heart.

Dont for one minute believe that building a house negates further support, I suspect you will witness many tears about saving face at weddings, funerals , pick ups, motor cycles, education etc etc etc. If your GF is genuine I do feel sorry for her. Torn loyalties and all that.

Good luck

Edited April 21, 2008 by khunandy

[donna]

i dont understand why the girl couldnt just say 'no'. i know plenty of thai girls who are dating or married to western men. these are all girls holding 'normal' jobs (not bar girls) and they met under 'normal' circumstances. none of these girls has allowed their families to bludge off of their husband. if money is not important to the girl she would have told her family to bugger off and let you get on with it (in my opinion).

[soundman]

Tell her that your money is all tied up in investments for a year or 2 and cannot do anything yet.

See if she is willing to wait.

I reckon something along these lines would be the right game plan.

No money at the moment honey. Up to you!

[RY12]

So, my GF's basic idea (after talking to her family) is we would get married and I'd pay to build the house for her family. The family wouldn't be looking for any sin sod (other than the house) and wouldn't need to have a wedding ceremony/party or baht gold, etc. Now, at 1 million baht, that works out to about $32,000 U.S., which is well within my ability to afford.

This doesn't strike you as odd? I'm no ladies man masterful in the art (i've only ever had one thai gf, and she's OLDER than me), but after a couple months of relationship, you think it's time to start talking about marriage and 30k? Except for richfolk, would anyone in the US or wherever you're from ever do that?

I agree with ronthompson, most bargirls are probably better-hearted than that, or at least more subtle. To me it often seems like these "office-worker" girls 20 years younger than the guy are more dangerous because they can be more insidious and manipulative. Not saying this is your girl, obviously no on here can judge her.

Edited April 21, 2008 by RY12

[khunandy]

A bit off topic but in our village a few houses down one of the girls had hog tied a Dutch guy in Pattaya and carried him home.

The girl in question used to be a nice person and still is but she has an obsession to try and outdo whatever my wife has achieved in the years since I was also hog tied and carried to the village.

She wants a bigger house, a nicer car, a pool etc and broadcasts this around the village. It all seemed to be going according to plan and her parents house was demolished (why I dont know because they have lots of suitable land to build another house) anyway, the family house was bulldozed to make way for the new "mansion". In the meantime a wooden shack was erected to house the family.

Hmmmm one year later the family is still living in the shack, there is still a pile of rubble where a house should be and I havent heard or seen the Dutchman in quite a while....or the girl come to think of it.

[jfchandler]

Thanks very much for all the replies and comments... I take them all to heart.

I'm certainly not a newb here.... Nor was/am I planning to get married with her any time soon, or haul off and fork over 1 million baht for their family house. But I am trying to decide how best to respond to their request, and what to do about my relationship with the lady.

As much as I like the lady, I was very put off by both the family's request and the way they handled it. But it was ME who wanted to meet her family, as a way of trying to see what the future would hold in any relationship. So I knew exactly what I was doing...

The point of my post here was.... in reading here and Thai Visa and elsewhere... I regularly see posts about guys building houses for their Isan wives/families...and all the problems that can ensue from that. But I also see sin sod amounts ranging, depending on the lady and her status, from nothing to 100,000 to maybe 500,000 on the high end... So 1 million (for the house) seemed very high to me. But still, guys always seem to be building Isan houses... So... I'm still not really clear on that practice/expectation. (Neither I nor the TGF plan to move to her village any time soon, so we'd both be staying/living in BKK).

It's been my practice never to go looking for ladies in Isan, specifically to avoid that and similar kinds of problems. But, it so happened, I met this lady in Bangkok and I do think she's great...

Honestly, I'm not sure she knew about what her family was planning in advance.... The trip to KK was a very spur of the moment thing, initiated by me, not by her or her family. She had gone traveling with her family outside of KK for Song Kran, but they had cut short the trip early for other reasons and come back home. So, at that point since she was still on holiday from work, with a day's notice, I made the bus trip up to KK to meet them for the first time. Thus she and the family found out I was coming with not much more than 24 hours notice.

In all the time we've known each other, the lady has never been pushing for me to go to KK and meet her family. I always have been the one who had spurred that discussion.

I do also think a lot of the family's response was the result of what apparently the English bloke has done with the aunt. There is a strong sense of not wanting to be outdone by the others nearby. The GF also told me when he first arrived in Thailand and there, he had no sense of baht money. So when he arrived in their village, she said he started handing out 1000 baht bills to everyone he met (which for the record, she also thought, was a stupid, impolite thing to do).

I likewise asked, as the GF and I later talked about her family's response, what would happen to their existing house (which is a real house and not a shack, though it apparently has a lot of termite damage). She said the family would tear down the existing house first. I asked, so where would they live during that time? And she said something about temporary housing...and I didn't quite follow after that. All of this, is not making me feel like a happy camper.

Thanks again...

[RY12]

you seem to be wanting to justify building the house by claiming it's sin sod, saying the family doesn't want to be outdone, etc., ...it seems to me the family doesn't take you seriously, in terms of being a spouse to their daughter, and only view you as an money source. The fact that your girl brought this housing matter up so quickly, SO VERY quickly (2 months) makes it sound like she's primarily financially-focused as well. Obviously she has to be concerned about money cause life is hard in siam, but the straightforward directness you describe her as putting forth sounds a little creepy. imho

[jfchandler]

Read my lips...and words...please....

"Nor was/am I planning to get married with her any time soon, or haul off and fork over 1 million baht for their family house. But I am trying to decide how best to respond to their request, and what to do about my relationship with the lady."

Thanks again...

[rick75]

I would go the "my money is tied up for a couple of years" route, I like that and might need to remember this myself soon, from what I have seen once you open your wallet it forever stays open, Goodluck.

[harleyclarkey]

You stayed in one of the best hotels in town.....go to a nice clean restaurant and pay for everything no problem. You offer the Dad a bottle, not of 100 Pipers, but Black Johnnie. Good on you as it shows you can afford these things.

Then they say they are worried you can not "take care of their daughter"? No, my friend this is to me a set up. I would not really happen that the father would say such a ridiculous thing unless you were a back packer. In which case thay would probably acccept you anyway and hope you may make some money in the furure. half a farang is better than none!!! LOL. The crying is always the instant tap syndrome. Thai girls can cry on cue......no problem. This was not real grief, tears or sadness.

Sorry to say. Time to move on as the demands are too much too quick. But whatever you do I wish you all the best.

[harleyclarkey]

PS. JF. If you build the house you will almost certainly lose it within months. DO NOT even consider it now. Tell her the truth. Far too early to ask me for a house.....why did you ask so soon off me?? Who will own the house? What plan did you have for me when you asked me to build a hoiuse?

All this stuff and more....see what she comes up wioth.

We are not trying to burst your bubbble ...just trying to maybe save you heatbreak and loss.

[Captain Chaos]

I agree with the comments along the lines of "my money's tied up for 2 years, can you wait till then?" - that's a VERY good response!

I will say that I think there can be a strong element of a 'face race' amongst Thai (Isaan?) girls with farang other halves - who can have the bigger house, newer pick up truck etc etc etc I am NOT saying it's right, but I have seen it happen. Unfortunate fact of life and, yes, indicative of families who view farangs in all the wrong ways when you get to the heart of it...

My wife is currently building a new house in the village at roughly the same cost as the OP is talking about. All I will say is that my wife and I have been together since 2003 and she only asked me about it late last year when it was clear (even to my eyes) that the old place was about to collapse - a couple of months seems awful quick to make such a request to me...

My condition on giving this money was that ONLY my wife now appears on the "chanote" - all others have been removed. The house can be her asset and she can let her mum or anybody else live in it if she wishes but I personally would NOT gift assets to the family / hangers on / bludgers / term them as you will...

The OP has sensibly said he's not rushing in and he should stick to this approach and see what the response is IMHO

CC

[marshbags]

Read my lips...and words...please....

"Nor was/am I planning to get married with her any time soon, or haul off and fork over 1 million baht for their family house. But I am trying to decide how best to respond to their request, and what to do about my relationship with the lady."

Thanks again...

Not a cynical offer of advice ( read common sense ) but for my 2 bahts worth i,d ..........................

Do as other have suggested, say your money is tied up and you cannot access it for x amount of time.

If she sticks with you and she stops putting the little hints of buying this and that, then rethink the situation, you will buy yourself time to assess if your relationship is genuine or about money.

Remember the line of a well know Beatles song " MONEY CAN,T BUY ME LOVE "

( Incidently it,s a pity Macca didn,t listen to his words ), but this is possibly off topic regarding your area of contention and doubt.

If she takes the high road then you will have saved yourself 1 MIL and what ever may follow on from this, be so much wiser, hopefully, and cautious the next time it may happen. ????????

Thai,s can cry at will so do not let this show of distress and upset influence your judgement.

marshbags

IMHO of course

Edited April 21, 2008 by marshbags

[Dave the Dude]

[( Incidently it,s a pity Macca didn,t listen to his words ), but this is possibly off topic regarding your area of contention and doubt.

RY12

Just a thought, I read somewhere that 'visiting the Thai family' is the same as wanting to get married. But and a big BUT, the family and your girl are being dishonest with you. RUN FOREST RUN !

MARSHBAGS

Macca was lucky, In days of olde, Omnipeds would have robbed you AND MADE YOU WALK THE PLANK (OFF TOPIC)

Dave

Edited April 21, 2008 by Dave the Dude

[Schooner]

I am 100% sure that this is a shakedown. Issan parents want to see there daughters married because there is still shame in traditional families when their daughters sleep with men outside of marrage. If this was ligit they would be talking about sin sot and marrage not building a house. The daughter would not be staying with you in your hotel either.

If you stall about paying any money than you are only opening yourself up to plan B to extract money from you. You have already established that this women is after money now you have to decide if you want to hitch yourself to what will no doubt be a lifetime of money demands. She and her family have already figured out that your enough of a sucker to still stick around after the 1mm baht pitch so they will just work on closing you on a lesser amount.

I would move on now before she figures out what your soft spot is.

[DNPBC0]

I suppose the stories that we farangs have to tell about sĭn-sòt tong mân are legion. In my own case I keep feeling that I am taking part in the production of some medieval morality play. Wealthy old foreign prince comes to land of beautiful female peasants to seek nubile young bride to take care of his every need. To test the prince's good intentions the family of his chosen one exact a price for their gift which will definitely hurt the prince's sense of material complacency and at the same time display to the other peasant families that they (and their beautiful nubile daughter) have scored a great achievement. That's the basic plot, but it's up to us all to be playwriters as well as the central characters. The script of version of the play involving my Thai lady, her family and myself is still being written and has already undergone a series of major revisions in the past eight months since we all met. Only time will tell whether it is ever performed.

[Lite Beer]

J F. The family are ripping you off big time. Or trying to.

Only you will know if your Girlfriend is on the level or not.

Edited April 21, 2008 by Lite Beer

[Totster]

All I will add to this is that sometimes families put an extremely large amount of pressure on the girl to get married, build a house etc.. especially when a farang is involved.

Also in Isaan the family bond is very strong and the children do tend to do what they are told by the parents, I would say they feel obligated sometimes, even long into adulthood and middle ages.

To mirror the advise above, say that the money is there, and you will be happy to build a house (if that's what you want), but only after you are married, after 2 years etc..

You can also bet she's getting plenty of pressure to get married also, expect that discussion soon.

Just because this has happened it doesn't mean they're out to get you, just that maybe their expectations are to high, and you most certainly don't have to go along with it.

Take it slow, explain it to the GF, if she is serious about your relationship she'll find a way around this and deal with it, more importantly use your brain.

Totster

[Brigante7]

Run away as fast as you can.

[martyh01]

Bad behaviour from girlfriend and her family.

Be very careful, the parents are obviously looking for "showcase house" money, not "happyness" or good live for the daughter. If you want a future with this girl, tell her it does not include her family, and settle down far away from KK. If she don't agree..............................walk away.

There are plenty of good Isaan girls - and parents

In a word mate your doomed I have been here 28yrs seen this so many times / seen men cheat families back in UK to play keep up with the Jones, take it from me she and the family loves your money not you, i have never seen a relationship work when the family applies the pressure / bail out mate!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited April 22, 2008 by martyh01

[track61]

I'd "tie-up" my funds too and see what develops. I'm thinking this is more a case of trying to keep up with the "Samak's" than greed, so it may work out. However, meanwhile, never underestimate the power her family have over her. I had a wonderful relationship with a girl some years ago. We lived together for almost 5 years and never had an argument and never talked of marriage, building houses, etc. Even made numerous trips to her village and her family dug me. Then her youngest sister got married to a Dutch guy and the family started pressing my GF for us to marry. Never indicated they wanted anything except not to have their last unmarried daughter living with a falang not officially hooked up. I of course resisted. Her mother called every day and nagged so, after about 4 months of continous pressure neither of us could stand it so we split. Have always regretted it a little bit but the choices left to me were all unacceptable so I took the "least worse." Keep your eyes and ears open and plod on.

[Jimmyd]

The idea of lying and saying your money is tied up is ridiculous. The only way to have a good relationship is to be honest. Work out how you feel about things and then tell her. Do your best to work things out honestly.

[jfchandler]

Want to say thanks to everyone for your advice and comments. They have helped me think about the situation...and with all of your experiences at hand.

I think it's pretty simple at this point: I will not be building a house for her family any time soon, and am not even sure I would if we had a good relationship in the future (because of the legal pitfalls of farang property ownership in Thailand). Buying a condo or something for she and I might be a different question...down the road, if everything worked out great.

However, the way her family acted really put me off, and it's been said before, when you marry a Thai lady, you are also marrying with her family. So that's always an important area to consider.

As I told someone in a personal message, it went following our first family meeting together roughly like this: a) that night, the GF said her family liked me and she was happy; the next morning after talking with Mom, she said her family didn't think I could take care of her; c) later that day, she told me her Mom wanted her to go back to BKK right away; and finally d) the following day, she told me her family would be fine about us, if I built a house for the family. To me, that's CRAZY!!!

So, if she stays with me now, then, I will know the score. And if she bails, I'll likewise know the score. Either way, I'm fine with the outcome. As various folks have said, I do honestly believe there is a lot of pressure to keep up with the Samaks, as someone put it, when there's already a farang-Thai marriage in the village. And likewise, I believe her family is putting a lot of pressure on the lady, and she is, like many Thai ladies, very beholden to her Mom and family. So honestly, I wouldn't expect her to cross them, though it's possible I could be surprised...

About the comments below, she has told her family we are not sleeping together. And, the commenter below doesn't know if we are or not... So, don't presume to know something you don't know. She and her family specifically didn't want us to visit or stay in her home because, they said, they didn't want to start more gossip in the village unless we were getting married. So, that's why we stayed in the hotel in KK. And true or not, I was fine with that. More comfortable for me, and in keeping with the request of her family. Likewise, I think everyone can pretty much assume 1 million baht for a house would constitute a request of sin sod. So, that's exactly what her family was talking about...

Likewise, about the second comment below "farang who had nothings..." you likewise unfortunately don't know me or what you're talking about. If you want to throw opinions about, please at least base them on some semblance of knowledge and fact... In this case, you have neither. That would be much appreciated.

I am 100% sure that this is a shakedown. Issan parents want to see there daughters married because there is still shame in traditional families when their daughters sleep with men outside of marrage. If this was ligit they would be talking about sin sot and marrage not building a house. The daughter would not be staying with you in your hotel either.

..............

I would move on now before she figures out what your soft spot is.

I'm 100% agree with your opinion schooner and on the other hand i find that hard to belief that a thai's woman 20's something with university degree and a good job would going out with farang who had nothings never mind that sleeping in the same bed before they even engaged. just my two pennies....