Farang Learning Thai

[Ratsima]

I'm not the thread starter, BTW. But, Kris, I think your last sentence is spot on. I wish I could get my MIL to teach me Thai. She has no English, but has lots of experience teaching her children and grandchildren how to speak. When she talks to me she does it just right: looks right into my face so I can see her mouth, speaks slowly and clearly in simple sentences using simple words, knows what clues to look for to see if I've understood, and, if not, uses substitute words until I get it. In other words, just how a bright adult approaches language with a small child or infant. But, she's at her retail shop from 6 AM to 9 PM and has three infant grandchildren to care for at the same time, so no time for me. But, someone like her would be an ideal teacher.

Edited July 5, 2008 by Ratsima

[kriswillems]

kris, the thread starter was a Thai. Are you referring to Ratsima? Are you suggesting the best Thai teacher would know nothing about language, including English, including foreign language learners' problems? Maybe an unskilled nobody??

Sorry, yes I was refering to Ratsima.

I have had Thai teachers with a bachelor in English that spoke worse English than me (I've never studied any English). So yes, I doubt about the qualification of many Thai teachers. Another thing I don't like about Thai teachers that teach adults or highschool children is that they get nervous or feel insulted when you ask lots of questions. I just like the teaching style prathom teachers use. Their teaching style is more spontaneous and they also get less annoyed when you ask questions.

A grandmother that took care of Thai children for 20 years can be a better teacher than a fresh student with a bachelor degree in English. The MIL of Ratsima seems to be the perfect example.

It also depends on what you want to study, of course. If you want to learn to write or learn the grammar and tone rules a highly educated teacher might be better. Ratsima can already write.

Edited July 5, 2008 by kriswillems

[kriswillems]

Most Thai people that studied until M.6 know enough Thai to teach any farang, at least if that farang is willing to study about the grammar and the writing system by himself. Thai grammar and writing is like mathematics, it's a logical system (with exceptions that need to be remembered). If you read about it and you've an average talent for languages you can study it by yourself.

For practising to speak and to understand most people can't do without the help of a teacher. The personality and approach of the teacher is more important than the education of that teacher. If you can't use an experienced/specialised teacher for farang, probably the approach of a prathom level teacher is the best.

Edited July 5, 2008 by kriswillems

[mangkorn]

Most Thai people that studied until M.6 know enough Thai to teach any farang, at least if that farang is willing to study about the grammar and the writing system by himself. Thai grammar and writing is like mathematics, it's a logical system (with exceptions that need to be remembered). If you read about it and you've an average talent for languages you can study it by yourself.

For practising to speak and to understand most people can't do without the help of a teacher. The personality and approach of the teacher is more important than the education of that teacher. If you can't use an experienced/specialised teacher for farang, probably the approach of a prathom level teacher is the best.

Excellent points, especially re: the importance of personality and approach.

Also, maybe it's just me, but find that many people from the provinces, including Isan, speak Central Thai very clearly, and with a vocabulary that is more understandable than many Bangkokians. I wonder if that's because Central Thai is a kind of second language for them? In any event, I certainly do understand people from Khorat more readily than I do - for example - old men who are Bangkok natives. Some of those guys sound (to me, anyway) like they are mumbling...

[kriswillems]

Also, maybe it's just me, but find that many people from the provinces, including Isan, speak Central Thai very clearly, and with a vocabulary that is more understandable than many Bangkokians. I wonder if that's because Central Thai is a kind of second language for them?

I was afraid to say it, but I had exactly the same impression. For me the people that are the most easy to understand are people from Korat or Burriram that speak central Thai. This is very strange because I spent only 1 day of my life in Isaan and my wife is central Thai. Isaan people seem to speak more slowly and clearly than for instance my wife, who speaks quite fast and uses a lot of central Thai slang language or more higher level language when speaking to important people.

But some people from Isaan with a low education are not able to speak central Thai (especially older people). I also don't understand anything of what they are saying.

People with a M.6 education level are the most easy to understand for me. Highly educated Thais sometimes use too difficult words and people with a very low education often use their local dialect.

[Ratsima]

This is pretty interesting. I live in Isaan and have been here for three years. I always have an easier time with Thai when I visit places like Bangkok, Phuket, Hua Hin, etc. In other words, places where people are used to dealing with farang who speak less-than-perfect Thai. The person I have the hardest time understanding is my wife. (Well, maybe that's a domestic issue!)

[desi]

Another thing I don't like about Thai teachers that teach adults or highschool children is that they get nervous or feel insulted when you ask lots of questions.

I thought it was just me (I ask a lot of questions too).

I also noticed that Thai teachers do not like anything new introduced into a structured program. They learned how to teach one way and... that's what's going to happen? Not sure, but I seem to like a creative mix in the learning process ('seem to' because I'm still floundering around, looking for ways I learn the best).

[PeaceBlondie]

Is most teaching of subjects in Thailand top-down, where the student does what the teacher says, and does not ask questions? And the teacher ignores questions? Would a sympathetic farang or a five year old Thai child teach better?

[meadish_sweetball]

Asking too many questions means a risk of them not being able to answer, and if they cannot answer they feel they lose face. According to the cultural norm, as a student you are supposed to respect the teacher's authority and avoid putting them in that situation.

In my experience it is not unusual that one gets an answer that does not answer the question, but something else.

This does not necessarily mean they misunderstood the question. The reason they did not give a straight answer the first time could just be that they do not know the answer, but to uphold authority feel that they need to say something at least.

It is difficult for both foreign students and Thai teachers to adapt to each other.

[mangkorn]

Also, maybe it's just me, but find that many people from the provinces, including Isan, speak Central Thai very clearly, and with a vocabulary that is more understandable than many Bangkokians. I wonder if that's because Central Thai is a kind of second language for them?

I was afraid to say it, but I had exactly the same impression. For me the people that are the most easy to understand are people from Korat or Burriram that speak central Thai. This is very strange because I spent only 1 day of my life in Isaan and my wife is central Thai. Isaan people seem to speak more slowly and clearly than for instance my wife, who speaks quite fast and uses a lot of central Thai slang language or more higher level language when speaking to important people.

Some Bangkok people do speak very quickly (and not so clearly), and perhaps more idiomatically than some provincials.

I'm not certain about the level-of-formal-education part of your statement - except as regards some older, rural people; I have met many upcountry people who have only basic formal education, but who speak central Thai very clearly, and with what I consider to be beautiful grammar. My guess is that most Thai people know how to speak central Thai perfectly; maybe it's just a matter of style?

Regarding another poster's query about whether a skilled farang would be a good teacher of Thai, in the sense of being able to answer the kinds of questions that he/she also struggled with at one time, that could be a great option. There are a few people on this forum who would be outstanding teachers for beginner farangs - but that would probably cost some very serious money...

Then again, if someone were lucky enough to have a farang friend who did know Thai well, that would be something to take advantage of fully. (I try to help a couple of friends, but, alas, they really aren't very interested in learning, and forget almost immediately... That is extremely frustrating, quite frankly.)

Cheers.

Edited July 5, 2008 by mangkorn

[Ratsima]

My Danish neighbor stopped by last night to talk to my wife and her daughter as my wife has volunteered to drop his daughter at school each morning. This is a guy who has been in Thailand for five years. He's never studied, never cracked a book, never gone to class, never listened to a tape or CD, can't read or write. But, he's fluent in conversational Thai. He spoke with ease to my wife and daughter and so quickly that I couldn't pick up a single word. Somehow he's managed to achieve with apparent ease what has eluded me for more than a decade and hundreds, probably thousands of hours of study.

What does he have that I lack?

[desi]

He's never studied, never cracked a book, never gone to class, never listened to a tape or CD, can't read or write. But, he's fluent in conversational Thai. He spoke with ease to my wife and daughter and so quickly that I couldn't pick up a single word.

Is it too early in the morning to totally dislike someone I've never met?

[PeaceBlondie]

You do not need to be an expert in learning abilities and differences to know that some brains learn some stuff much faster than they learn other stuff. That Dane might not be able to open a rubber-banded sack. I used to be a near genius at income tax law, and I learned Spanish fast enough, but Thai is too difficult for me. I am still offended by posters who call me stupid because their five year old niece speaks Thai better than I do. There are reasons for that.

To answer the original post, which asked "...how hard is it for those Farangs out there who try to lean Thai?" for some of us who are no dummies, learning Thai is way too difficult, not worth it. And to those who mastered Thai by the age of nine, I have some really complex US income tax law you would never master. Mai bpen rai, neither of us needs to learn the other's foreign language.

[kriswillems]

My Danish neighbor stopped by last night to talk to my wife and her daughter as my wife has volunteered to drop his daughter at school each morning. This is a guy who has been in Thailand for five years. He's never studied, never cracked a book, never gone to class, never listened to a tape or CD, can't read or write. But, he's fluent in conversational Thai. He spoke with ease to my wife and daughter and so quickly that I couldn't pick up a single word. Somehow he's managed to achieve with apparent ease what has eluded me for more than a decade and hundreds, probably thousands of hours of study.

What does he have that I lack?

Some people just like to talk about anything to anyone and they are not afraid to make mistakes. Probably you're shy or nervous when you talk Thai, or afraid people will not understand you, I was also like that in the beginning. In fact I am sometimes still like that. What helped for me were the Thai courses. Once I got a basic level of Thai I was not shy to talk anymore. But is still not a smooth talker like your neighbour.

Your neighbour didn't learn to speak Thai without studying. I am sure there was someone in his life that helped him and corrected his mistakes when he was speaking. It might not have felt like studying for him. But nobody just wakes up some day and can speak Thai.

There are only few people that can learn a language by talking only. The result is sometimes also not that good

I live not that far from Pattaya. In Pattaya I sometimes meet foreigners that can speak Thai as if they have been living there all their life.They can make jokes, use particles in their sentences just as Thai people would do. But many of them have a very limited vocabulary, so if you start speaking about another subject many of them miss the foundation that is necessary to really master the language.

Some people might say it's not important but I find reading a very useful skill. It's nice if you can read the menu card, the bus schedule, the price written in Thai, message boards on the internet, the royal Thai dictionary, ....

Just go on studying the way you are. Practise your listening and speaking skills with a Thai teacher.

If you're not working you might think about doing a volunteer job in a place where they only speak Thai. A friend of me really improved his Thai a lot by helping in an organisation for children without parents.

Edited July 8, 2008 by kriswillems

[kriswillems]

A farang could be a good teacher if you want to study basic grammar. For all the rest I would go for a Thai teacher. I think there a some people on this forum that can explain Thai grammar better than 99% of Thai people. But I also think that very few or even none of the farang on this forum can talk Thai as good as Thai people.

[TheDon]

Ive been trying to learn Thai, but im freeking hopeless, Im not living in Thailand yet, but will live there next year, Im hoping me being there will help me learn it better. Coz my wife teaching me at home is painful