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Stop Smoking, Helping Each Other to Quit


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It reduces my stress and helps calm me down

This health intellectualization is false.  The body's pH balance is delicate.  Nicotine is an alkaloid and stress an acid producing event.  The more stressful the event the quicker the body's remaining nicotine reserves are neutralized (in the same manner as pouring a baking soda solution on an acid covered car battery terminal).  The stressed smoker is thrown into early chemical withdrawal adding additional anxiety to the underlying original stressful event.  It's why the anxiety associated with a flat tire causes smokers to reach for a cigarette while the non-smoker reaches for a jack.  The anxieties build until the doubly stressed smoker cries out "I NEED A CIGARETTE!"  Within eight seconds of the first puff, the smoker's nicotine blood serum nicotine level rises and their withdrawal anxieties subside.  The addict is left with the false impression that smoking cured the underlying stressful event when in fact the tire is still flat.  All non-smokers experience stress too.  The difference is that they don't add early nicotine withdrawal to each stressful event.  In truth, stress nicotine depletion causes smokers to experience far more anxiety than non-smokers.  In truth, it is much easier and calmner being the real "you" than it is living as a chemical slave

once the withdrawal sets in you get stressed and angry easier than natural, any addict of any substance experiences that.

last night i had to meet somebody from work in town. after having waited for 10 minutes called and was told they will be late one hour due to some problems. ok, went to do the thing i had wanted to do after the meeting. after one hour came back, no one there, called, no one answered the phone. after 15 minutes they called back and told me they are coming. then still waiting.... went to a bookshop and had a look around, came back - no one there still :o called again to tell them i will be waiting at the supermarket. sat down there and then some homeless looking guy sat next to me starting talk i did not understand, so that was when i finally went in the supermarket and bought a pack of lights :D didn't think much while doing so, acted more like under 'remote-control'.

when i finished the cig they arrived... (wasn't their fault, they took the wrong ferry :D )

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Elfe, I am a bit like you.

I thnk that there is something special about the way I smoke.

I am not a REAL addict like those who need to somke all the time.

I can have one first thing in the morning, then not have another til 8pm at night.

Because I don't have a problem, I "reward" myself with 6 or 7 in a short time.

Who am I fooling?

I should reward myself with a nice cool drink, bag of crisps, mars bar or sweeties.

Addiction is a really interesting subject.

I know a little about it with other drugs, but now starting to know that I am in fact totally addicted to nicotine.

I am scared of giving up totally. I use them as a crutch, to get through stressful times.

it's like a reward for what i have done, cause it's so hot and every half hour or so i was covered in sweat and had to sit down and drink some water. actually while working looking forward to the ciggy - reward
What would a "normy", or a non-addicted person do?

Have a shower and a cool drink.

actually I only smoke when sitting at the computer, when on the phone, after morning coffee and after meals, when going out with friends and for 'reward'. when I'm outside (for a walk or sitting in the garden or shopping etc.) i never feel to have a cig! also when on the sofa reading a book or watching movie i never smoke, strange isn't it? 

Come on man, you are in denial. You smoke 30 a day!

Good luck!

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malcolminthemiddle: Evil pandit35 and I know each other already for a while. Don't be concerned if the postings and replies between us are a bit strange. Thats normal between us....

pandit35:

I really have no problem stop smoking, relative easy for me (I can do it 3 times a day, lol).

No what I really wanted to tell is: after 2 weeks or so I am under the impression that now I can smoke just one cigarett, only one.

I could do it for many years to smoke only friday, saturday night but not during the week. But the time has gone and I think it is very difficult for me to accept that it is really out of my control.

Pandit35: Due to lack of english, I did not fully understand your post. Does it mean at the moment you are still smoking, just waiting for the REAL reason to stop? Meanwhile you look at this topic in a more philosophic way, while smoking a good cigarette?

Please let me know when you stop smoking! Because even if I fail, I will do everything to fail AFTER you......

h90

:o  :D  you stopped before the date h90 !

:D  well good for you. I have my resolution set for the date when it comes.

I have always been able to easily stop for an afternoon, a day, or 3 days. Even 3 weeks at a time. I can handle the withdrawel easily enough. But the thing that this thread and the web site is making me realise is that I have never intended to stop for good. If I stop now it is just for another break from it like all the times before. So the date when it comes marks the vast change of heart. This time it will be NEVER TAKE ANOTHER PUFF.

Quite seriously, h90 stopping is a good impetus for me to do the same, with the intention of making it permanent this time.

My homework answer is

So is playing with a loaded gun and they both have the same potential for harm.  This weak addiction rationalization ignores that doodling with a pen, playing with coins, squeezing a ball or using strength grippers may be habit forming but are non-addictive.  You might get ink on yourself, rich or strong wrists but your chances of serious injury or death are almost zero.

As for the wake up call - I can't see a better one than the solid effort and resolution of others in this forum, i.e. that we do all really wish to stop. And the inspiring effort that malcolm is making on our behalf.

But, if the wake up call must come from that site alone it must be (so far) The first puff will probably reinforce the addiction to cigarettes which is a much greater crisis than the flat tire ever was. In fact, taking the first puff almost always results in a bigger problem than the crisis that "caused" them to take the puff

Since I am involved with meditation, and even help teach it - this going through stress = accepting and letting go of suffering - which is what I am supposed to be good at.

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actually I only smoke when sitting at the computer, when on the phone, after morning coffee and after meals, when going out with friends and for 'reward'. when I'm outside (for a walk or sitting in the garden or shopping etc.) i never feel to have a cig! also when on the sofa reading a book or watching movie i never smoke, strange isn't it? 

Come on man, you are in denial. You smoke 30 a day!

Good luck!

no 'man' here :D

and no denial either, it's cause WHEN i smoke, i smoke one after the other :o

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Please let me know when you stop smoking! Because even if I fail, I will do everything to fail AFTER you......

I'll take that challenge!

h90 - I have been like you - can stop happily for days on end without any real problem. But I have come to realise that I have never stopped for ever I only ever intend to have a break from smoking, and never think to make it a permanent quit. In the last year though I have smoked almost constantly, like I did for so many years in the past.

No, this is not a philosophical interest.... Malcolm said not to stop smoking yet, but to do each step by step. Step One - decide to stop. Step Two - educate oneself about smoking. Step Three - ?? not reached yet. He said we will set a firm date when we will all stop with the motto NEVER TAKE ANOTHER PUFF.

And that is what I firmly intend to do. It's what I will do.

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pandit35:

Do you know the QuitCounter?

Funny piece of software, it tells me how much cigarettes I did not smoke, how long I did not smoke and how many hours till I have 72 hours.....

If you need it, I send it to you, but somewhere on that webpage Malcolm gave us, there is a link.

For me the fact is pretty hard to accept that it is not possible to not smoke, but just take one cigarette in the evening, like I can drink one beer and stop than.

That that Malcolm said, not to stop smoking yet.... hmm, I simply did not see that. Step one - decide, OK, step two, more or less yesm than I was so sure that I stop now, that I stoped. Actually I don't want to start smoking again, for just beeing in the rules again.

I am now at: 1 day, 6 min, 4 seconds without smoking. As now my lung starts to hurt and I take some grey mucus comes, so I think it was really time.

Just a few minutes before a pack of LM Menthol followed me and wanted to fight with me, but luckily I could escape in my office.

Wish you good luck, your challenge at the moment is to stay more than 1 day 8 min, which is my smokefree time at the moment.

h90

Please let me know when you stop smoking! Because even if I fail, I will do everything to fail AFTER you......

I'll take that challenge!

h90 - I have been like you - can stop happily for days on end without any real problem. But I have come to realise that I have never stopped for ever I only ever intend to have a break from smoking, and never think to make it a permanent quit. In the last year though I have smoked almost constantly, like I did for so many years in the past.

No, this is not a philosophical interest.... Malcolm said not to stop smoking yet, but to do each step by step. Step One - decide to stop. Step Two - educate oneself about smoking. Step Three - ?? not reached yet. He said we will set a firm date when we will all stop with the motto NEVER TAKE ANOTHER PUFF.

And that is what I firmly intend to do. It's what I will do.

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Have you missed me?

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I was in a very remote location in Northern Laos. On Monday night we had a mega storm and our satellite internet connection was fried. Today, Wednesday, I have travelled for 5 hours by 4 wheel drive over rolling and mountainous terrain crossing international borders to be with you again (there's a song there somewhere).

This connection is a little slow and unreliable, but I shall try to post the remaining questions over the next couple of days.

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The way i see it Rav, its a week of pure h3ll, followed by a month of h3ll.

That first week is gunna be the hardest part, if we can get through that... we stand a fighting chance.

I've pre-warned my workmates, its only fair as im going to be the grouchy arse in the office when its happening...  :D  :o  :D

Wolfie,

I think you will be surprised. When I quit, my first smoke free day was probably my first for 15 years. As the smoke free days increased and the withdrawal symptoms subsided a feeling of self pride increased, This feeling of pride quickly outweighed any negative thoughts and even today, I continue to congratulate myself. Because I was prepared I knew what to expect; because I was motivated I was ready to handle it.

If you play golf, quit smoking is a bit like shooting under 80 for the first time, a great sense of achievement.

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malcolminthemiddle: By either not reading or not understanding (english is not my first language), I first educated myself, than I found a reason to quit (actually not difficult), than I read a bit more and than I stoped smoking, instead of waiting for the next step.

So I am 1 day 22 hours and 31 minutes without smoking by now.

With that I broke the rules of the game and of course I don't want to start smoking to stop it again to be in the games again.

So if you think I don't fit in the group, just kick me out, I don't take is personal.

Please answer me one question or give me help on that. I sit nearly all the day at the computer and I usually start a new cigarette all few minutes (some of them I just place in the ash tray and don't even smoke them). How I can change my habit? Now I make a lot of tea and drink tea all the time, or beer. But the habit of taking a cigarette is somehow perfect in matters of what advertising teached us to be cool and management.

Luckily I can sleep very well so I sleep now 10-11 hours per day. But that all is an escape, what can a nervous man do (instead of smoking)?

Michael

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But that all is an escape, what can a nervous man do (instead of smoking)?

Michael

Two things to keep an eye one early. Drink natural juices for the first 72 hours (cranberry is excellent). Nicotine fed you with each new puff via adrenaline releases of stored fats into your blood stream. The juices will help both stabilize your blood sugar level while giving your brain a chance to resume full control of blood sugar production. This should also help with any concentration or mind fog type symptoms you've had with prior quits.

Also, don't skip ANY meals but then don't eat more food either. You don't have to give up anything when quitting except for nicotine but don't allow food to become a new crutch either. In that nicotine fed us stored fats via adrenaline releases, you may have been able to skip breakfast and/or lunch during the entire time you smoked. If you try skipping meals after quitting, your blood sugar will take a nose dive and you may experience lots of unnecessary symptoms including difficulty concentrating, a dizzy sensation or fatigue. We don't need even one calorie more of food but many of us do need to learn to spread our food intake out more evenly over our entire day. Don't skip breakfast!!!

Also, if you were a big caffeine user (more than 750 mg per day) then you need to know that nicotine smokers need twice as much caffeine as non-smokers in order to get the same sensation. Nicotine causes caffeine to be metabolized and depleted at twice its normal rate. If you are a big caffeine drinker and fail to reduce your daily intake by half after quitting smoking, you may find yourself experiencing tremendous anxiety, climbing every wall in sight (the neighbor's walls too) and possibly not being able to sleep.

Baby steps! Just one hour at a time, focus only on here and now, and soon you’ll have your first complete week of victory! Today may be easy, it may be challenging, but it will be a complete victory, and the glory will be all yours!

This is your life and that is your body. They were never meant to be imprisoned for life! It’s time! Lots of deep breaths and nice cold water!

Breathe deep, live long!

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Hi kon-dee,

You must have got up early, that is if you are in Denmark.

When you registered, you said:

..........................tryed to quit 3 times. !

Within whyquit.com is an article entitled "Just One Little Puff".

Your task is to find that article and post the first paragraph and the URL of the article.

kon-dee,

You forgot to quote the first paragraph.

Hi Malcolm.

I was up early! :o

Just had a few minutes before going to work. Didn't see your question before logging off again though.

Here's the URL: "Just One Little Puff?""

Not a pleasant website, but a great motivation to quit!!

kon-dee

kon-dee,

You forgot to quote the first paragraph.

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To quit smoking and feel happy about it seems imposible for me.

When I started this forum I told you all that I was not a doctor or hypnotist; just a reformed smoker wanting to pass on my experience; hoping it would help others.

The posts from Ravisher brought home how many smokers feel their case is hopeless. So I emailed whyquit.com and asked Joel to visit our forum, read the posts and give his professional advice to help Ravisher, here is his response.

Joel Professional Advice to Ravisher

The problem Ravisher is likely having is his reason stated for the past quit. He was quitting out of fear. Quitting out of fear sets up the condition where a person is feeling as if he is giving up something that he really wants, because it is going to kill him. The attitude a person has under these terms is that he will never smoke again. Smoking will cripple and kill him. He knows it and he doesn't want to die. So the only logical choice he has is to "give up" his wonderful cigarettes that made life so worth living so that he can keep his life. This will usually translate to he will never be happy again for the rest of his life but he will never smoke.

This state will result in the person feeling a miserable longing for the rest of his life because of the fact that he is depriving himself of his wonderful cigarettes.

He needs to change his motivation. He shouldn't quit just because he doesn't want to die. He should be quitting because he wants to live.

Here is a comment I wrote at the Freedom board on that topic:

It may help if you work a little on your bottom line. Quitting smoking should be done for more reasons than just because you don't want to die. You should be quitting because you want to live. Not only do you want to live, but you want to be healthy so that you can really live, not just exist as the world really lives around you but you are to weak or impaired to participate in it. You should realize that you want to live free, not under the control of a product that is hurting you. You should realize that you don't want to smell like an ashtray anymore. You should realize that you don't want to waste your hard earned money any more on sustaining an active drug addiction. You should realize that you don't want to be viewed as a weak individual or have people in general questioning your overall intelligence or your good judgment because you smoke. You should also realize you don't want to be viewing yourself the same way, wondering what is wrong with you since you still smoke. The more you realize and see smoking for what it is the more happy you will be with your decision to quit and stay quit and the more easy it will be to stay committed to never take another puff!

He needs to change his attitude from the idea that he is depriving himself of some wonderful cigarettes to that of he is ridding himself of an addiction that really was interfering with his quality of life as well as likely hastening his death.

Here are a couple of articles that might help with that:

"I want one".

I want one-no I don't. One sounds great-no it doesn't. Oh just one-not just one. If you keep thinking in terms of "one" this kind of internal debate is non-relenting-it will slowly drive you nuts.

So, don't carry on this debate. Don't think in terms of one. Think in terms of full-fledged smoking. The full quantity, the social stigma, the stench, the costs, the risks. I'm not advocating looking at them negatively. Just look at them how they were-really were at the end.

They were making you sick and tired enough of them that you voluntarily put yourself into withdrawal to break free from them. You did it. Now just keep them in perspective. If you used to smoke 20 a day, say to yourself when the urge hits that "I want 20 a day, every day, for the rest of my life, till it cripples, then kills me." As soon as you hear yourself say it in that perspective you will likely find yourself next saying, "What am I thinking?

I don't want to smoke that way." That will be the end of that particular discussion.

Look at smoking in real terms and you will walk away from each urge with a sense of relief and accomplishement. Fantasize about them and you may walk away with a feeling of deprivation. You are not depriving yourself of anything, you are ridding yourself of a deadly addiction. See them for what they are and you will stay forever resolute to never take another puff!

Also this one:

Fixating on a cigarette

What happens to some people is when off a certain time period they start fixating on a cigarette. By that I mean they forget all the bad cigarettes they ever smoked, they forget the ones they smoked without ever really thinking about them even at the time they were being smoked, and they start to remember and focus on one good cigarette. It may be one the smoked 20 years earlier but it was a good one and they are now wanting one again.

A common tactic is the ex-smoker will try to tell himself or herself that he or she does not really want that good cigarette. Well, the problem is at that moment he or she does want it. An internal debate erupts, "I want one, no I don't, one sounds great, not it doesn't, oh just one, not just one!"

The problem is that if the ex-smoker focus on one there is no clear winning side. The ex-smoker needs to change the internal discussion.

Don't say that you don't want one when you do, rather acknowledge the desire but ask yourself, do I want the others that go with it. Then do I want the package deal that goes with the others? The expense, social stigma, smell, health effects, possible loss of life. Do you want to go back to smoking, full fledged, until it cripples and kills you? Stated like this it normally is not a back and forth debate. The answer will normally be, "No I don't want to smoke under these terms, and these are the only terms a cigarette comes with.

Normally if viewed like this the debate is over with almost immediately after pulled into focus. Again, if the focus is only on one, you can drive yourself nuts throughout the whole day. If they focus on the whole package deal, you will walk away from the moment relieved to still be smoke free and sufficiently reinforced to never take another puff!

The other limitation of quitting out of straight fear is that the fear will eventually wear off. Again it is a matter of having other reasons lined up to call upon when the fear starts to dissipate. There are plenty of good reasons to quit smoking and anyone who works at truly seeing cigarettes for what they were is likely to stay sufficiently motivated over the long-term to stick with a commitment to never take another puff!

Joel

Thanks Joel.

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Thanks malcolm,

I am now at 2 days and 2 hours now I'll sleep 10 hours and than I am on 2 1/2 days.

I don't worry about passing 1 week or 10 days! But I worry about the normal live. What do I do with my fingers instead of smoking. I read already all the tips and tricks, but not really help me. Now I drink tea and in the evening beer. If I continue with that, you can register me at the next anti-alcohol group.....

Anyway thanks a lot for your kick, at the moment it looks good....

Michael

But that all is an escape, what can a nervous man do (instead of smoking)?

Michael

Two things to keep an eye one early. Drink natural juices for the first 72 hours (cranberry is excellent). Nicotine fed you with each new puff via adrenaline releases of stored fats into your blood stream. The juices will help both stabilize your blood sugar level while giving your brain a chance to resume full control of blood sugar production. This should also help with any concentration or mind fog type symptoms you've had with prior quits.

Also, don't skip ANY meals but then don't eat more food either. You don't have to give up anything when quitting except for nicotine but don't allow food to become a new crutch either. In that nicotine fed us stored fats via adrenaline releases, you may have been able to skip breakfast and/or lunch during the entire time you smoked. If you try skipping meals after quitting, your blood sugar will take a nose dive and you may experience lots of unnecessary symptoms including difficulty concentrating, a dizzy sensation or fatigue. We don't need even one calorie more of food but many of us do need to learn to spread our food intake out more evenly over our entire day. Don't skip breakfast!!!

Also, if you were a big caffeine user (more than 750 mg per day) then you need to know that nicotine smokers need twice as much caffeine as non-smokers in order to get the same sensation. Nicotine causes caffeine to be metabolized and depleted at twice its normal rate. If you are a big caffeine drinker and fail to reduce your daily intake by half after quitting smoking, you may find yourself experiencing tremendous anxiety, climbing every wall in sight (the neighbor's walls too) and possibly not being able to sleep.

Baby steps! Just one hour at a time, focus only on here and now, and soon you’ll have your first complete week of victory! Today may be easy, it may be challenging, but it will be a complete victory, and the glory will be all yours!

This is your life and that is your body. They were never meant to be imprisoned for life! It’s time! Lots of deep breaths and nice cold water!

Breathe deep, live long!

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Sorry about that Malcolm!

Here's the first paragraph from "Just One Little Puff?"

"It is hard for many people to grasp the concept of how just one little puff can result in full-blown relapse. It just doesn't seem logical to some people. But should you ever find yourself debating the thought of whether or not you could possibly get away with smoking "just" one, think about what advice you would give to a family member or friend who you cared for tremendously, while knowing that they were a recovering heroin or cocaine addict who was for the first time in months or years considering attempting recreational use. Imagine your shock and horror at even the thought of it, especially if you were with them back during the peak of their addiction when it was ruining almost every aspect of life and maybe even putting his or her very life on the line."

So true, so true...

kon-dee

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Eight years ago I had liver surgery and that was the end of my drinking or as the doctor said, "You drink ,you die" This also forced me to change my diet-no salt ,low protein etc. I have taken to smoking 2 cigarettes a day for the last maybe 2 years. I was never a heavy smoker but this was some kind of childish protest at turning my whole life over to the medical profession. Today was the great american smokeout day and I was thinkiong about friends who say-if you onlly smoke 2 a day why don't you quit? Then I read your campaign and it kind of clicked with me. I live in California and they have highly taxed cigarettes and made smoking illegal in just about any place-bars ,public buildings of any sort. In my life I have defeated various addictions and although I know nicotine is a formidable habit forming drug-it isn't much compared to a heavy heroin habit. I find the only truly effective way to beat any addiction is cold turkey-no tapering off or supportive drugs or patches. When I saw guys in jail that would keister tobacco into the jail I just said-"what's wrong with this picture?"

Edited by top808
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When is the date???? I am really looking forward to it. I can't imagine why I bought a new pack of LM greens today. I have built a lot of determination for the full stop date from whence forth I will never take another puff! I swear.

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Good for you pandit35 (on the determination thing, not the purchasing of new packets :o), I stopped cos basically i'd made the decision, justified it to myself and couldnt see any reason why to continue, so i just stopped...

I really hope others can stop through this (and i can stay off the bloody things myself!)

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I was a bit envious when you stopped already. Nice one!

From the date that the OP sets we should have 30 or so people determining to not take even one more puff. There's some power in so many doing something, and in not wanting to let the side down.

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Here is the status of the forum as I read it today, please check and let me jnow if you disagree.

For those members who have had their questions but not yet replied, please answer within the next 24 hours, thanks.

One member has formally dropped out.

Stop_Smoking_Status_15_4_05.doc

Edited by malcolminthemiddle
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Malcolm, I have been very keen to stop smoking. But decided to wait for you to give me the date as I believe you know better than me.

I was asked why I am waiting and I guess my answer was that it is not something that I can really decide for myself.

So, I will continue checking in here, browsing the quit smoking site and preparing for the big day. It is quite exciting to think that I may well be smoke free soon.

Scary too :o

Cheers, i look forward to my question.

I see your spreadsheet has a column called "posted wake up call" are we all expected to post one? or wait until asked?

I really want to stay keen on this, but I can see me lying to my myself if I do not keep the momentum up and believing that I have lost interest.

Wolfie has given me some inspiration though. Well done pal.

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Malcolm, I have been very keen to stop smoking. But decided to wait for you to give me the date as I believe you know better than me.

I was asked why I am waiting and I guess my answer was that it is not something that I can really decide for myself.

So, I will continue checking in here, browsing the quit smoking site and preparing for the big day. It is quite exciting to think that I may well be smoke free soon.

Scary too  :o

Cheers, i look forward to my question.

I see your spreadsheet has a column called "posted wake up call" are we all expected to post one? or wait until asked?

I really want to stay keen on this, but I can see me lying to my myself if I do not keep the momentum up and believing that I have lost interest.

Wolfie has given me some inspiration though. Well done pal.

Hi Tukyleith,

I had hoped to keep the momentum of the forum at a faster space, but the problem I have had with my internet connection has prevented that.

Thanks for your patience.

Wake Up Calls can be posted by any one at any time, your question in the next few minutes, providing I can stay online.

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Sorry for my non response as I have just cleared up my pension problems and now have more time. know this is yet another excuse but I do want to quit so please don't drop me outa this. I've been coughing so much lately my nose bleeds and this really has got me worried. Haven't told the wife about that but she knows it's bad for me to smoke and supports me. I tried back a few months before this all came about but after the first few days I found myself snapping at the wife and my little girl and I can't have that. I'm looking all over the website for the answer to my question but haven't found it yet, but at least I am learning. Thanks for putting up with my excuses and I will do better.

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................. i smoked less than usuall  ..............smoked one before cooking lunch .......................smoked a cig every 30-40 minutes or so when i took a break  ......................so i at least managed to 'only' smoke 15 cigs yesterday ........................... I only smoke ....................? :o

Hi Elfie,

Thanks for being so patient: I know you've been watching and active in the forum, but that doesn't excuse you from homework!

Your question is:

"Why do you choose to smoke?"

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Cheers, i look forward to my question.

Hello again tukyleith,

Thanks to you to for being so patient.

Here is your question.

Complete the following statement:

"I am addicted to a substance that is five times as addictive as cocaine (15% vs. 75%). I may be strong enough to cut back a bit but I'll remain addicted, ..................................................."

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Sorry for my non response as I have just cleared up my pension problems and now have more time.  know this is yet another excuse but I do want to quit so please don't drop me outa this. I've been coughing so much lately my nose bleeds and this really has got me worried. Haven't told the wife about that but she knows it's bad for me to smoke and supports me. I tried back a few months before this all came about but after the first few days I found myself snapping at the wife and my little girl and I can't have that. I'm looking all over the website for the answer to my question but haven't found it yet, but at least I am learning. Thanks for putting up with my excuses and I will do better.

Kringle,

A clue

http://whyquit.com/whyquit/A_NicodemonsLies.html

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