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PAD Lay Siege On Government House, NBT TV Station


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Pad's proposal of "new politics" means more representation to the people, not less, but it doesn't matter, some people made up their minds and are completely consumed by by their own rhetoric.

Please explain. If true then maybe some have missed the point.

PADs proposal for a 70% appointed government means more representation for the ruling class elite and less representation for the vast majority of poor voters.

It is a blatant assault on democracy.

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Pad's proposal of "new politics" means more representation to the people, not less, but it doesn't matter, some people made up their minds and are completely consumed by by their own rhetoric.

Please explain. If true then maybe some have missed the point.

I think he means that if most of the country has no voting rights it will be more fair to the people in Bangkok. If I am wrong, please detail it.

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Emergency Decree you still have the same guy calling the shots, not based on the rule of law based on Poltical and personal motivations. Will they actually enforce these things in the end nothing really chaged the laws to deal with have been there all along.

The man that is a calling the shots is the same man who net a 1000 cop up against 20,000 to stick up a stupid piece of paper. Not to arrest anyone. Was it worth it, appears not to have been.

So who did get rid of not the man who made the real decion, but an underling, who followed orders. Boy that really helps.

The courts I have the upmost respect for them. But they have hours days, weeks, months years. to make decesions. That is little help to some guy being beaten on the ground. You take the ability away fro the Men and Women you pay and have trained to make decesion stop violence you will have anarchy.

The same man who ordered even the riot batons be taken away for the cops. Then stuck them out there last night bewtween to groups that had a violent history, with nothing but a piece of plastic to defend themselves and control the crowd.

I have dicussion I guess it could be called discussion, about what the cops should have or should not have done. Like they had any choice in the matter.

Ask yourself an honest question would you have stepped ot ther last night with a plastic shield between those two groups of people armed to the teeth, with up to and including firearms that were used. I sure as heck would not have wanted to do it.

Emergency decree may mean something and it may not, with no enforcement laws mean very little.

I

I think it is about time people realize just how brave the Men and Women of the Thai Police force really are.

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Pad's proposal of "new politics" means more representation to the people, not less, but it doesn't matter, some people made up their minds and are completely consumed by by their own rhetoric.

Please explain. If true then maybe some have missed the point.

PADs proposal for a 70% appointed government means more representation for the ruling class elite and less representation for the vast majority of poor voters.

It is a blatant assault on democracy.

Ando, that is not quite correct. Everyone is to have an equal vote. One person, one vote. But the Bangkok votes will be twice as equal as the others, because after all, they are educated. :o

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Pad's proposal of "new politics" means more representation to the people, not less, but it doesn't matter, some people made up their minds and are completely consumed by by their own rhetoric.

Please explain. If true then maybe some have missed the point.

I think he means that if most of the country has no voting rights it will be more fair to the people in Bangkok. If I am wrong, please detail it.

As a PAD member explained to me, voting needs to be in the hands of trustworthy, intelligent people. Isaan country folk may be good farmers, laborers and mee barns but they are too stupid to understand politics and are fooled by Thaksin et al. In Bangkok and the south most people know what is best and they should therefore have control.

After PAD instigated the last coup, ensured ELectoral commision appointees were sufficiently sympathetic, had hundreds of members of parties outside the Democratic Party banned, set up the Asset investigation committee , arranged a new constituition that allows any act of treason and gives wide ranging powers to ban ever more politicians who don't kowtow to PAD, PAD leaders thought they had done enough.

But the stupid people of Issan once again, for the third time, voted in parties who don't bow and scrape to teh Bangkok elite as represented by Sondhi. I mean what can be done except to try to force another coup. And this time it will be one that bans opposition politicians in suffiicient numbers that there will be no choice for voters except those proposed by PAD: Finally a true democracy.

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Emergency Decree you still have the same guy calling the shots, not based on the rule of law based on Poltical and personal motivations. Will they actually enforce these things in the end nothing really chaged the laws to deal with have been there all along.

The man that is a calling the shots is the same man who net a 1000 cop up against 20,000 to stick up a stupid piece of paper. Not to arrest anyone. Was it worth it, appears not to have been.

So who did get rid of not the man who made the real decion, but an underling, who followed orders. Boy that really helps.

The courts I have the upmost respect for them. But they have hours days, weeks, months years. to make decesions. That is little help to some guy being beaten on the ground. You take the ability away fro the Men and Women you pay and have trained to make decesion stop violence you will have anarchy.

The same man who ordered even the riot batons be taken away for the cops. Then stuck them out there last night bewtween to groups that had a violent history, with nothing but a piece of plastic to defend themselves and control the crowd.

I have dicussion I guess it could be called discussion, about what the cops should have or should not have done. Like they had any choice in the matter.

Ask yourself an honest question would you have stepped ot ther last night with a plastic shield between those two groups of people armed to the teeth, with up to and including firearms that were used. I sure as heck would not have wanted to do it.

Emergency decree may mean something and it may not, with no enforcement laws mean very little.

I

I think it is about time people realize just how brave the Men and Women of the Thai Police force really are.

On the one side you have attempts at keeping the peace but on the other side you have cries of police brutality.

Each side wants to appear victim so they get the advantage.

Occupying government areas and refusing to compromise = wrong

Sending police in with no conviction to clear the situation = wrong

Sending unarmed police in = wrong

Complaining about police brutality (from what we have witnessed so far)(or maybe simply not expecting it) = wrong

Anyone who takes part in a protest of this nature and this advanced has to be prepared for a number of possible outcomes, one of which includes violence. If you take your children there it is plain irresponsible, if you are old/weak/not able to defend yourself you should have weighed this up for yourself.

On the one hand you have cries of police brutality when the police try to clear the PAD and on the other you have complaints that they can't hold back the other mob from attacking them.

The only way to clear this is the realisation we have 2 mobs that are hel_l bent on attacking each other. They both need to be cleared off the streets; right off and completely.

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DAAD seem to stiil be standing in front of the heavy riot gear blockade, not the light gear sissies that first let them through in the early hours. Waving sticks and pipes, sling shots.

OH, they are "sissies" now. Only a few days ago they were accused of police brutality.

I m not comparing DAAD's confrontation with the police and the police closing in on the PAD. You are.

I am comparing the first lines of police DAAD encountered last night, unarmed and NOT in full riot gear , one man deep... They had hours to see what was clearly going on with DAAD preparing. A little more and the police was holding hands with DAAD all the way to Makawan. Look at the footage, it was a coordinated setup.

A few hours later out comes the heavy riot gear, still unarmed, after the deed was done.

Edited by Tony Clifton
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An excellent overview.

from Asia Sentinel

Giles Ji Ungpakorn

01 September 2008

Democracy and social justice get lost in the shuffle between the royalists and the pro-Thaksin forces

thai-coupFor the past two or more years, especially since the September 2006 coup, Thai society has been hypnotized into forgetting about the real social and political issues. Instead, the whole of society and most tragically, the social movements have been entranced by a fight between two factions of the Thai ruling class.

On the one side are the deposed Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra and his disbanded Thai Rak Thai Party, its successor, the Peoples Power Party and the government. Opposing them are a loose collection of authoritarian royalists comprising the People's Alliance for Democracy, the pro-coup royalist military, the pro-coup judiciary and the Democrat Party. The authoritarian royalists are not a unified body. They only share a collective interest in wiping out Thaksin's party.

The two sides mirror each other. Both are firmly in the camp of the Thai capitalist elite. They both are nationalistic and are prepared to abuse human rights. While the Thaksin government and Samak's Peoples Power government support extrajudicial killings and a hard-line murderous position on the Muslim insurrection in the south, the opposing side cares little about such killings and counts the former Thai commando and assassin who took part in several coups and is called the butcher of Krue Sae Mosque, where Muslims were massacred, among its leadership.

Both factions are associated with people who have a record of corruption. It is common knowledge that all Thai politicians are engaged in corrupt practices, whether legal or illegal. The military have a long record of corruption and the 2006 junta were no exception. After the illegal coup in 2006, they appointed themselves to boards of state enterprises and forced through increased military spending.

Yet the courts have clearly been used to single out Thaksin's faction on corruption and "abuse of power" charges. While Thaksin was still in power, the courts bent to his wishes. There is no justice in Thailand. The judiciary are not accountable to the electorate and always support the rich a powerful. In labour courts they always rule against trade unions. No jury system exists in Thailand.

The differences between the two factions are there too. While the Thaksin faction are committed to their strategy of winning power by elections, parliamentary democracy and money politics, the PAD and their friends are in favour of military coups, reducing the number of elected parliamentarians and senators and increasing the power of unelected bureaucrats and the army. The justification for this is the belief that the poor majority in the country are too stupid to be given the vote.

The PAD faction are also fanatical royalists. They want a new coup and were happy to whip up hatred of Cambodia and risk a war over an ancient Khmer temple. The PAD strategy, as outlined by Pipop Thongchai, a core leader of the party, is to create enough political chaos that institutions and parties are destroyed and a "new order" arises from the ashes. Needless to say, this new order will not be democratic nor committed to social justice and equality.

In terms of economic policy, the Thaksin faction try to use a dual-track strategy of mixing neo-liberalism with grassroots Keynesianism. They believe that the poor must not be left out and have a record of real pro-poor policies such as the Health Care Scheme. However, they are not remotely socialist and are against taxing the rich and building a Welfare State.

The PAD/Democrats/royalists are hard-line monetarists. They propose interest rate hikes to cut down spending on the poor and to squeeze wages. ///////a few words about HM, deleted ////// Income re-distribution is ruled out. That is why the poor have consistently voted for the Thaksin faction.

The major reason why democracy and social justice have fallen off the political agenda into the stinking canals of Bangkok is the total disarray of the social movements, NGO networks and trade unions. After the collapse of the Communist Party in the mid 1980s, the new slogan of the Peoples Movements was "the answer is in the villages".

This was an NGO strategy to turn to rural development along single-issue lines. The slogan reflected a respect for villagers which contrasted greatly with the attitude of the government. Now the slogan of those People's Movement networks supporting the PAD has changed to "the villagers are stupid and don't deserve the vote!", "the answer is with the military, courts and the king".

Sections of the NGO-Coordinating Committee, some Thai staff in Focus on Global South, HIV+ networks, Friends of the People and some farmer groups have lined up to support the PAD and the demand to decrease democracy. The Railway Workers Union and the Thai Airways union have also shown support. The Rail union leaders have never campaigned for hundreds of rail employees who have been on temporary contracts without welfare for decades. The Thai Airways union has ignored military corruption in the airline and in the Airports Authority. Both unions have turned their backs on serious attacks on trade unions in the private sector and are only prepared to take action when people in high places give them the green light.

Other activists who cannot stand the PAD have allowed themselves to be pulled into supporting the government. This is just as bad as those supporting the PAD. Some have even cheered when the police tried to break up PAD protests.

The lack of independent class politics in the Thai Peoples' Movement is a result of years of rejecting overall "politics" and "political organisation". It is a result of the anarchistic ideas that were popular after the collapse of the Communist Party, a reaction to the party's Stalinist authoritarianism. The problem is also a result of the "lobby politics" of NGOs. Neither strategy leads to building an independent position for the trade unions and social movements. They reject "representative democracy" but have no concrete democratic proposals to put in its place.

Even today, at this late hour, we can still build political independence. We must campaign for more democracy and more control of institutions from below. We must advocate a root and branch reform of the justice system, a reduction in the role of the military and the building of a welfare state through cuts in the military budget and progressive taxation of the rich.

Yet there are still those who say that we must take sides in the current elite dispute and leave such reforms until later. The problem with that is that the dispute will not be quickly settled and if it is settled on the terms of one or other elite grouping it will result in a smaller democratic space and less bargaining power for social movements.

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Flipping through the channels I stumbled upon the proud PTV zombies (minus Jakaprob) having an early morning circle jerk on their morning MVTV talk show, laughing and smiling while talking about last night's events. Looks like mission accomplished to them. :o

Edited by Tony Clifton
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DAAD seem to stiil be standing in front of the heavy riot gear blockade, not the light gear sissies that first let them through in the early hours. Waving sticks and pipes, sling shots.

OH, they are "sissies" now. Only a few days ago they were accused of police brutality.

I m not comparing DAAD's confrontation with the police and the police closing in on the PAD. You are.

I am comparing the first lines of police DAAD encountered last night, unarmed and NOT in full riot gear , one man deep... They had hours to see what was clearly going on with DAAD preparing. A little more and the police was holding hands with DAAD all the way to Makawan. Look at the footage, it was a coordinated setup.

A few hours later out comes the heavy riot gear, still unarmed, after the deed was done.

But, you are still missing one thing they are not the ones calling the shots. The person who does was probably sleeping soundly with do not disturb order out.

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DAAD seem to stiil be standing in front of the heavy riot gear blockade, not the light gear sissies that first let them through in the early hours. Waving sticks and pipes, sling shots.

OH, they are "sissies" now. Only a few days ago they were accused of police brutality.

I m not comparing DAAD's confrontation with the police and the police closing in on the PAD. You are.

I am comparing the first lines of police DAAD encountered last night, unarmed and NOT in full riot gear , one man deep... They had hours to see what was clearly going on with DAAD preparing. A little more and the police was holding hands with DAAD all the way to Makawan. Look at the footage, it was a coordinated setup.

A few hours later out comes the heavy riot gear, still unarmed, after the deed was done.

But, you are still missing one thing they are not the ones calling the shots. The person who does was probably sleeping soundly with do not disturb order out.

I don't believe that for one second. Who sends it's troops to face the DAAD IN LIGHT RIOt GEAR with their already known violent history using weapons last time on a PAD rally and after having had the chance to watch them prepare at Sanam Luang before their deadly march?

Edited by Tony Clifton
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RECAP #2

-New chief of police installed

*-Bomb explodes next to police booth neard PAD, same pattern as before with unsolved bombings pointing to Thaksinistas.

-Chief Immediately declares no batons, shields only

-DAAD gathers dunken yobs

-Drunken yobs are allowed to hop onto m'cycles and walk the street with weapons clearly showing in hand.

-Police line has resistance of paper wall on many occasions during march, seems intentional

-One killed, over 40 injured.

-Decision already scheduled for today Sep 2 regarding PPP party disolution.

-Everyone waiting for Samak's next move.

-Samak declares STAT OF EMERGENCY, which doesn't allow more that how many people to meet?

-How many judges are supposed to gather today to decide on PPP's dissolution? :o

Screaming irony right on schedule

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Pad's proposal of "new politics" means more representation to the people, not less, but it doesn't matter, some people made up their minds and are completely consumed by by their own rhetoric.

Please explain. If true then maybe some have missed the point.

I think he means that if most of the country has no voting rights it will be more fair to the people in Bangkok. If I am wrong, please detail it.

As a PAD member explained to me, voting needs to be in the hands of trustworthy, intelligent people. Isaan country folk may be good farmers, laborers and mee barns but they are too stupid to understand politics and are fooled by Thaksin et al. In Bangkok and the south most people know what is best and they should therefore have control.

After PAD instigated the last coup, ensured ELectoral commision appointees were sufficiently sympathetic, had hundreds of members of parties outside the Democratic Party banned, set up the Asset investigation committee , arranged a new constituition that allows any act of treason and gives wide ranging powers to ban ever more politicians who don't kowtow to PAD, PAD leaders thought they had done enough.

But the stupid people of Issan once again, for the third time, voted in parties who don't bow and scrape to teh Bangkok elite as represented by Sondhi. I mean what can be done except to try to force another coup. And this time it will be one that bans opposition politicians in suffiicient numbers that there will be no choice for voters except those proposed by PAD: Finally a true democracy.

Yes. This is my understanding also. Thank you for such an honest and clear explaination of the PAD viewpoint. I don't agree with it, but it is always nice to determine specifically what is disagreeable.

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I suggest maybe we should start trying to be an example; and stop the conspirancy theories and name calling.

Now is the time to push for the middle ground not the time to try and reinforce your position on the outer limits.

I agrees now that Thai Visa has Travel Agency, Sells Insurance and etc. They should start a church so we can pray for peace.

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RECAP #2

-New chief of police installed

*-Bomb explodes next to police booth neard PAD, same pattern as before with unsolved bombings pointing to Thaksinistas.

-Chief Immediately declares no batons, shields only

-DAAD gathers dunken yobs

-Drunken yobs are allowed to hop onto m'cycles and walk the street with weapons clearly showing in hand.

-Police line has resistance of paper wall on many occasions during march, seems intentional

-One killed, over 40 injured.

-Decision already scheduled for today Sep 2 regarding PPP party disolution.

-Everyone waiting for Samak's next move.

-Samak declares STAT OF EMERGENCY, which doesn't allow more that how many people to meet?

-How many judges are supposed to gather today to decide on PPP's dissolution? :o

Screaming irony right on schedule

I stand corrected on the judges issue as someone mentioned, still ,

WILL THE EC RULE ON DISSOLUTION AS WAS PLANNED TODAY?

DOES THE STATE OF EMERGENCY ALLOW THEM TO MEET?

WILL THE PPP ACKNOWLEDGE A DECISION OF DISSOLUTION MADE UNDER STATE OF EMERGENCY?

Edited by Tony Clifton
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Shinawatra claims that more people from other provinces will travel to Bangkok to join the confrontation with the PAD protests.

Where did you see that statement?

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/09/02...es_30082237.php

Interesting edit of that news article. :o

Here is what was really written:

"Shinawatra Pabunchart, leader of pro-government protesters claimed that his men have already surrounded the Government House at 2am on Tuesday in a bid to oust anti-government protesters from the Government House."

Then, in the 3rd paragraph below that:

"He claimed that more people from other provinces will travel to Bangkok to join the confrontation with the PAD protests."

Was the "selective" editing (to make it seem like the more well known (Thaksin) Shinawatra was making the statement) an attempt to create controversy just for the h3ll of it ?

//spelling edit

Edited by Kerryd
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Flipping through the channels I stumbled upon the proud PTV zombies (minus Jakaprob) having an early morning circle jerk on their morning MVTV talk show, laughing and smiling while talking about last night's events. Looks like mission accomplished to them. :o

Thankyou for sharing that with us. :D I'll make a note of it in my diary. :D

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Flipping through the channels I stumbled upon the proud PTV zombies (minus Jakaprob) having an early morning circle jerk on their morning MVTV talk show, laughing and smiling while talking about last night's events. Looks like mission accomplished to them. :o

Exactly... people die and they are joking about.

But maybe pride goeth before a fall.

Too arrogant by half.

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Shinawatra claims that more people from other provinces will travel to Bangkok to join the confrontation with the PAD protests.

Where did you see that statement?

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/09/02...es_30082237.php

Interesting edit of that news article. :o

Here is what was really written:

"Shinawatra Pabunchart, leader of pro-government protesters claimed that his men have already surrounded the Government House at 2am on Tuesday in a bid to oust anti-government protesters from the Government House."

Then, in the 3rd paragraph below that:

"He claimed that more people from other provinces will travel to Bangkok to join the confrontation with the PAD protests."

Was the "selective" editing (to make it seem like the more well known (Thaksin) Shinawatra was making the statement) an attempt to create controversy just for the h3ll of it ?

//spelling edit

I noticed that and it seemed obvious, but I did not bother to look back to see who was responsible. Was that the handy work of The Nation?

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