Samak Bows Out

[kurtgruen]

French are all over the island, hard to get a flight,

hasn't stopped them, a strike, a group protesting the government,

what else is new.

C'est Aout time for vacation.

Rainy season isn't exactly high booking time,

but I had a hard time driving through Chaweng last night too many people.

No one talking about destruction of the tourist biz here.

They ARE worried about the weather being so wet.

Add to that the following article and it sheds even more light on it...

Tourism industry welcomes end of emergency

BANGKOK: -- The decision by Thailand's caretaker government to lift the State of Emergency Decree on Sunday, imposed in the capital, Bangkok, since September 2, was welcomed by the Association of Thai Travel Agents (ATTA) and those involved in tourism business.

ATTA president Apichart Sankary said he believed that scrapping the Decree would help boost confidence among foreign tourists and businessmen wishing to invest in Thailand.

Mr. Apichart said that the ATTA would work to explain the positive news to foreign countries while Thai envoys based overseas should also help explain the situation to the public in the countries where they work.

In 2007, about 15 million foreign tourists visited Thailand and the country earned Bt600 billion while Thai tourists spent approximately Bt400 billion, Mr. Apichart said.

This year the number of foreign tourists visiting Thailand is expected to be about the same as last year, lower than the 15.48 million projected by the Tourism Authority of Thailand. Earnings from tourism by foreigners and locals are also expected to be unchanged from 2007, he said.

Note that ATTA president Apichart Sankary says that there where about 15 million foreign tourists in 2007 and that they are expecting about the same amount this year, with around the same revenues (BT600 Billion).

Now take into account the high fuel prices and plane fares, along with the higher cost of living in Thailand (inflation), and I think that Thailand is doing pretty good this year.

Plus, you can't blame the SOE on the PAD. That was Samak's doing. All I can say is, good riddance.

[LaoPo]

Note that ATTA president Apichart Sankary says that there where about 15 million foreign tourists in 2007 and that they are expecting about the same amount this year, with around the same revenues (BT600 Billion).

Now take into account the high fuel prices and plane fares, along with the higher cost of living in Thailand (inflation), and I think that Thailand is doing pretty good this year.

1. The figure was 14,4 Million in 2007.

2. That number includes 2 Million 'tourists' from Malaysia and Laos alone (1,552,000 and 521,000); Laos has 6,6 Million people and a GDP of $ 2,100 PP and they had 521,000 TOURISTS ? The country is dead poor....

3. A few more Tourist countries: Myanmar: 75.000 tourists - Vietnam: 254,000 tourists - Cambodia: 108,000 tourists - and what about Indonesia: 234,000 tourists and last but not least Philippines: 200,000.

Together: 871,000 tourists....+ 2 Million is: 2,871,000 TOURISTS from dead poor countries........yeah right.

4. Than we have the countless border crossers; tourists from western and Asian countries who visit neighboring countries and return to Thailand and are counted 2 or more times as (new) INBOUND tourists...

5. Further we have countless Farang VISA-runners; I have no idea how many but the number must be quite substantial.

ALL-in-all I think there are no more than 9-10 Million REAL tourists to Thailand maybe a little more, probably less.

2008:

My estimate: 15-20% less than 2007

THAILAND_2007_tourist_numbers_res_1_12_1.XLS

sorry for the off-topic message but since someone brought it up....I thought some facts would be appropriate and ATTA president Apichart Sankary should tell the truth and not rubbish...

LaoPo

[johnnyk]

Good work LaoPo.

The really important figures of course will be the 2009 ones.

2008 isn't in yet but I suspect will show no growth or even decline from '07.

2009 is when the real effects of the political idiocies will show up. It would be interesting to know how '09 bookings are doing.

[permanent_disorder]

Plus, you can't blame the SOE on the PAD. That was Samak's doing. All I can say is, good riddance.

you can't blame the SOE for travel warnings by other states and lesser touist will maybe come.

the first travel warning came from singapore. not without profound reasons and after a long history of PAD Cult hate actions. i spoke about this here.

i think quite a few got afraid after the saw how a xenophobic and racist mob take over the power on the street. and that since month.

burn pictures of foreign statesmen in front of embassies. be armed with makeshift weapons and train riot fights in para military style on royal place.

blokade airports, ignore the law, threaten cambodia with a war plus a few other things of this - i think that concerned potential visitors and scares also away foreign investors.

who is to blame for this situation would be also a chicken or egg question. reduced to the SoE declaration downright a stupid oversimplification.

anyway, a step back from rampantly growing mass tourism is not bad at all and in the long run you can not build a countrys economy on more and more tourists coming every year. but this is another question.

[sriracha john]

Describing the proposal as "stupid and insane", :D Somsak Kosaisuk, a PAD core leader, told journalists that the case of 111 former executive members of the now-dissolved TRT at the order of the Constitution Court on charges of fraud in the general election held last December, was now ended while charges against the nine PAD core leaders had yet to be proven and would be appealed. *elementary, dear Watson.... convicted versus accused*

This description of the amnesty offer is spot on. Innocent until proven guilty and guilty after the verdict are two very different things and to describe the idea as insane is very accurate.

Interesting that the article doesn't indicate just who made the swap proposal- a PPP member? Or a journatlist?

Stupid and insane is a good way to describe the proposal...because once you're charged its up to the courts to sort it out - not PPP or PAD.

If in fact this proposal originated with a member of the esteemed Thai press corp-

The People Power Party gets to claim full credit for being both "stupid" and "insane"....

PPP Deputy Leader Police Lt. Col. Kant Thienkaew stated further that the Party will request amnesty for nine leaders of the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) and the 111 executives of the dissolved Thai Rak Thai Party to create peace and reconciliation in Thai society.

- ThaiNews / 2008-09-13

------------------------------------------------------------------

not surprising really that a Police Lieutenant Colonel wouldn't know the difference between convicted and accused....

particularly in light of another of that particular rank and connected to the Party can't tell the difference between right and wrong....

Edited September 14, 2008 by sriracha john

[Plus]

The PAD has no support from the people.

....

"THEIR people" Do you realize how ugly it sounds to a free man ?

"Pad has no support" - you are living in denial.

"Their" people are not free men. Someone called it "tribal" here, someone called it "communal", but again, if you think that they are free from their local lords - you are in denial.

[sriracha john]

Mr. No Thought pulls ahead...

Major reshuffle of cabinet expected this week

Somchai clear front runner to be nominated as prime minister

A major reshuffle of Cabinet seats is expected later this week, involving key factions of the ruling People Power Party (PPP) and other parties of the coalition government.

Tipped as the next Prime Minister, Somchai Wongsawat, the Deputy PPP Leader, yesterday sought the backing of all five member parties of the coalition ahead of Wednesday's vote for the new PM in the House of Representatives.

Somchai, who is now the acting Prime Minister, met with leaders of all five member parties of the coalition government yesterday - Chart Thai, Puea Pandin, Matchima Tippatai, Ruamjai Thai Chart Pattana, and Pracharaj parties.

The PPP has a total of 223 MPs while the five member parties have a total of 79 MPs in the 480-member House.

A senior PPP source said ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra had already telephoned all leaders of PPP factions from London, where he and his family are seeking political asylum, to back his brother-in-law Somchai as the next premier.

The source said more important Cabinet portfolios will also be given to member parties of the coalition government, such as Chart Thai and Puea Pandin, to reward them for backing Somchai and not leaving the coalition at this crucial juncture.

Chart Thai has sought control of grade-A ministries such as Transport, while Suvit Khunkitti of Puea Pandin could be given back his Cabinet seat.

"A major reshuffle is inevitable once we have a new premier. A number of key portfolios [such as Defence, Education, etc. will have to be filled].

"In addition, Cabinet quotas of various PPP factions and coalition parties will have to be renegotiated to suit a new balance of power.

"For example, the PPP faction in the North would have more bargaining power [since Somchai is husband of Yaowapa , a leader of northern MPs], while the lower-northeastern camp [of Newin Chidchob] will likely have less power," said the source.

Pol Maj Karn Tienkaew, a PPP Deputy Leader, said the party will today vote for Somchai as the new premier while Sompong Amornviwat, also of PPP, is a second choice for PM.

Karn said Surapong Suebwonglee, the caretaker Finance Minister, is not suitable for the top post because he is one of the defendants in the illegal digit lottery case, which is still pending in court. *and also his wife is accused of hidden stocks in excess of that allowed which may result in his removal*

Surapong was earlier also tipped as a PM candidate backed by nearly 100 MPs in the lower northeastern region, led by Newin Chidchob, who was barred from politics following the dissolution of Thai Rak Thai Party. *same as Thaksin and Yaowapa and a host of others, but that doesn't deter them*

The latest Abac poll shows that a majority of respondents will lend support to any new PM other than Samak.

Samak was disqualified from the highest office by the Constitution Court for accepting payments for a TV cooking show.

- The Nation / 2008-09-15

[sriracha john]

Pracharaj Party Leader Sanoh and his wife; Uraiwan Thienthong [caretaker Labor Minister and co-defendant in the lottery scam case], return wais from People Power Party's Deputy Leader Somchai Wongsawat. Somchai said Pracharaj promised to be in the coalition government.

The Nation

[MiG16]

Anti-government coalition rejects proposal on dropping charges against them

However, he said the PAD would not accept any of the three leading PPP members to become prime minister because they had committed mistakes before and were therefore unsuitable.

Gen. Chamlong, another core leader of the PAD, said his group's stance on a new political system which calls for 70 per cent of the House members to be appointed and only 30 per cent elected remains intact.

Gen. Chamlong said dissolving the House is not the solution to the country's political problems because the same old faces and policies would return to the House after an election.

The new political system should have representatives from every profession to sit in the House, Gen. Chamlong added.

...representatives fom every profession.....but 70:30...right ?

I could swear I noticed some members here telling that the 70:30 proposed system of NEW POLITICS by PAD was abandoned,.... "AGES AGO" as a member wrote me ?

Appears I was correct it is not.

PAD = END of the road to a -slowly but surely- growing DEMOCRACY in Thailand; don't you see that ?

LaoPo

Laopo, I totally agree, but am more concerned about the thousands of supposedly educated Thais (who claim to know better) that are following PAD. Some other details I heard is that the 30:70 proportion is more an end result (Sondhi revealed that he thinks it should start at 10:90, and gradually increase up to MAX of 30% elected. He didnt say how gradually).

if thats the case they should stop hiding behind words like democracy and people alliance. PAD leaders have said that this time (as opposed to after the 2006 coup), they want to have a say in who gets appointed as MPs, or whatever assembly they will call it this time. who has given them the mandate to represent Thai people?

[ubonjoe]

EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW

Country must embrace 'New Politics' or implode- Suriyasai

By Sathien Viriyapanpongsa

The Nation

Published on September 15, 2008

With no end in sight, the months-long protest by the People's Alliance for Democracy is driving politics to a dead end with little chance of a solution. Many questions are being asked of the PAD.

Full story: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/09/15...cs_30083422.php

[sriracha john]

PPP picks PM today

The People Power Party is scheduled to meet today at 10 AM to discuss the party's candidate for prime minister.

The Party choice is still focused on the three S's - Somchai Wongsawat, Sompong Amornwiwat and Surapong Suebwonglee. Key figures in the ruling Party, however, support Deputy Leader Somchai Wongsawat as its candidate, but they are willing to opt for Sompong if Somchai meets with too much opposition from the public, especially from the People's Alliance for Democracy.

Newin Chidchob's faction continues to throw its weight behind Surapong.

- The Nation / 2008-09-15

================================================================

The House votes on new PM Wednesday.

On Wednesday morning, the Lower House is expected to vote on the new prime minister. The Chart Thai Party, Puea Pandin Party, Pracharaj Party, Ruam Jai Thai Chart Pattana Party, and Matchima Thipataya have agreed to accept any candidate proposed by the PPP except former prime minister Samak Sundaravej.

- The Nation / 2008-09-15

[LaoPo]

Laopo, I totally agree, but am more concerned about the thousands of supposedly educated Thais (who claim to know better) that are following PAD. Some other details I heard is that the 30:70 proportion is more an end result (Sondhi revealed that he thinks it should start at 10:90, and gradually increase up to MAX of 30% elected. He didnt say how gradually).

if thats the case they should stop hiding behind words like democracy and people alliance. PAD leaders have said that this time (as opposed to after the 2006 coup), they want to have a say in who gets appointed as MPs, or whatever assembly they will call it this time. who has given them the mandate to represent Thai people?

Intelligent, charismatic, shrewd and clever people like Sondhi Limthongkul have many historical examples in the past; in Asia, in Europe and the Americas.

They are flamboyant and have special qualities and are able to address large masses of people with a kind of special kind of hypnotic voice and appearance and make the crowds cheer and almost 'crazy' about the person involved. They accept ANYTHING he says or claims and that is exactly what is so dangerous; people are blinded and will do anything to follow him, be near him.

In Thailand it's now Sondhi and he doesn't talk about himself, Oh no....he's talking PAD and their plans and the evil people behind the present government and -of course- the previous one in particular, the evil former PM, Mr. Thaksin and his "Dalton Brothers".

I will not let myself tempted to discuss the PPP or Thaksin and Samak here because in my eyes that is already history; this period is about the last movements of the Octopus muscle legs, so to speak.

I am much more concerned about the shortsights of the thousands of -indeed supposedly- educated Thais who support him, but I doubt very much that there are so many intelligent/educated followers of Sondhi. The many, many photos I have seen of the PAD protesters/supporters are not really a representation of an educated crowd one would expect to defend the NEW POLITICS of Sondhi cs.

As far as I can see it's a bunch of 'wild ones', likely paid; Today I watched many photos of the set up of the protests at the GH and I was amazed how professional it was done and organized. Here was clearly a very professional and costly (!) organization behind it, backed with a lot of money.

But: today I read a comment as follows and written by Professor Duncan McCargo, University of Leeds:

"On some level, the PAD is receiving moral support from the monarchical network yet the monarchy itself remains sniffy about street protests and sceptical about the real motives of the PAD leadership."

Personally I am not so convinced at all that Sondhi is backed by so many intellectuals and/or middle class; he has support no doubt, but if that support will help him to grab power....I don't know, but hope not. But he certainly planned to grab for power since this whole PAD cult-thing has nothing to do with a fight for a BETTER THAILAND, coming from Mr. Sondhi; this is his PERSONAL battle coming from a frustrated, hatred an psychotic man looking for revenge for his non-received-support from T. and his enormous bankruptcy.

Don't forget, the man lost more than 500-600 $ Million Dollars back in 1997 onwards.....

We, Farang, have no to little idea what really goes on behind the velvet curtains of the powerful Elite; I think they just use him as a tool and once not needed anymore they will drop him like a stone.

But, there is no solution for the future yet

Edit: to answer your last question about who gave them a mandate to represent the Thai people ?.....

NOBODY: It was Sondhi, angered by his hate who formed PAD (and a sleeping political party in 2006, called the MASS PARTY..ready to act..).

We will see.

LaoPo

Edited September 15, 2008 by LaoPo

[sriracha john]

Government agrees on trio of contenders for PM's job

All five coalition parties pledge to support PPP

Political alliances in the PPP-led government yesterday agreed on candidates for the job of PM, but remained tight-lipped on their preference. A day after Somchai Wongsawat, Sompong Amornwiwat and Surapong Suebwonglee were chosen on Saturday by key PPP members as candidates to succeed the sacked former PM Samak, the trio also sought support from five other coalition parties. The five parties' backing was crucial after they rejected the return of Samak by boycotting the parliamentary session called on Friday to pick the new leader of the government. Yesterday the five parties promised to be part of a new government and left the nomination of a PM to the PPP to decide. Chart Thai Leader Banharn Silpa-archa said, "Chart Thai is ready to support one of the three to be prime minister." Earlier, Somchai, the acting PM, said Pracharaj Leader [and former TRT MP] Sanoh Thienthong had ceded responsibility for selecting the PM to the PPP. Matchima Thipataya Chief Anongwan Thepsuthin [wife of TRT Banned #18 Somsak] also agreed to back the PPP's choice. "Matchima Thipataya will respect any candidate endorsed by the PPP," she said. Puea Pandin Leader [and former TRT MP] Suvit Khunkitti said the quick formation of the new government was essential. He hoped the PPP would select the most suitable person to lead the government, but he and the other Party Leaders refused to reveal their individual favourites. Somchai is tipped to have the best chance of the three, as he is a brother-in-law of ousted former PM Thaksin Shinawatra [TRT Banned #1], who backs the PPP.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/150908_News/15Sep2008_news01.php

Edited September 15, 2008 by sriracha john

[Ricardo]

On Wednesday morning, the Lower House is expected to vote on the new prime minister. The Chart Thai Party, Puea Pandin Party, Pracharaj Party, Ruam Jai Thai Chart Pattana Party, and Matchima Thipataya have agreed to accept any candidate proposed by the PPP except former prime minister Samak Sundaravej.

- The Nation / 2008-09-15

What a lovely example here, of jumping on the band-wagon, after it has already moved off !

On the other hand, isn't it good to see a PM convicted of having had a conflict-of-interests & lied to the court, only to have his own party-MPs then fail to support him ?

Almost like democracy is supposed to work, with individual accountability for bad behaviour, as encouraged by the E.C. with the red/yellow-card system during the last election.

Maybe things can change and improve here peacefully ?

[Moruya]

Democracy certainly works if all the right checks and controls are in place. Unfortunately they are not. Despite the coup and the 2007 constitution, there are still some glaring holes in the process.

At the local level, there is still vote-buying. This needs to be clamped down on hard - even harder than it is.

Each party should have a written manifesto outlining what it will do for agriculture, finance, transport, health etc.

The parties' policies should be broadcast to the nation over all Thai TV channels.

That way voters can make an informed decision about who they believe is best for them.

Changes to policy should be vetted by a scrutinisation committee as being driven by external changes rather than populist bribing.

Each person that is put up as a candidate must be vetted by a scrutinisation committe - no criminals, people with outside interest etc.

People with outside interests should also include non-business interests such as being lobbied by Thaksin or other influential people.

If a candidate moves parties, there should be an immediate bye-election.

Mega projects should be viewed and approved by a scrutinistaion committee.

Politicians bank accounts should be a matter of record.

At the moment there are several active politicians that are either facing serious charges or convicted of them.

We also have banned politicians taking more than just an active role in selecting the next PPP leader and hence the next PM.

We have PPP leaders actively seeking the opinion of criminals on the run.

Don't think the judiciary have finished just yet.

[sriracha john]

PPP to single out new PM

People Power Party (PPP) will host its executive committee’s meeting this morning to select candidates for new prime minister, replacing its Leader Samak Sundaravej.

The event takes place at around 10.00 am. After that, the Party’s MPs meeting will be hosted at 2.00 pm. to sound out MPs' views on the issue.

The candidates’ names will be nominated to five coalition parties for consideration. They will jointly attend a press conference on the matter on September 16.

The Party’s current two deputies, including caretaker Prime Minister Somcahi Wongsawat and Justice Minister Sompong Amornwiwat, are tipped to be nominated racing for the PM post.

- ThaiNews / 2008-09-15

[steveromagnino]

Note that ATTA president Apichart Sankary says that there where about 15 million foreign tourists in 2007 and that they are expecting about the same amount this year, with around the same revenues (BT600 Billion).

Now take into account the high fuel prices and plane fares, along with the higher cost of living in Thailand (inflation), and I think that Thailand is doing pretty good this year.

1. The figure was 14,4 Million in 2007.

2. That number includes 2 Million 'tourists' from Malaysia and Laos alone (1,552,000 and 521,000); Laos has 6,6 Million people and a GDP of $ 2,100 PP and they had 521,000 TOURISTS ? The country is dead poor....

3. A few more Tourist countries: Myanmar: 75.000 tourists - Vietnam: 254,000 tourists - Cambodia: 108,000 tourists - and what about Indonesia: 234,000 tourists and last but not least Philippines: 200,000.

Together: 871,000 tourists....+ 2 Million is: 2,871,000 TOURISTS from dead poor countries........yeah right.

You will always hear in market research 'compare apples with apples'

Since the tourism numbers have ALWAYS included your data above and is based on people coming into Thailand who are not already Thai citizens or holding a temporary entry permit (and I cannot recall the exact definition but I do know it has not been changed in the period since 2000 or prior) then we can compare like for like.

So no, we should not be interested particularly that visitors from Laos are apparently dead poor now; they have probably not changed significantly and were always part of the visitor numbers.

Just a small bit of advice also; don't assume that average income is a good guide to whether there are affluent people in the countries you have named; it would not surprise me if the spend per visitor from Indo and Malaysia is higher than the whiteys we see in Thailand; most of the current property boom in Singapore, which is about 4X more expensive than Thailand, is the result of Indo and Malaysian money.

The huge increase in MICE trade and medical tourism coupled with more Indian tourism (again nice proof of a poor GDP per capita country but resulting in one of the highest spends per day for tourism for Thailand supported by the experiences of luxury brands and hotels in Bangkok) and middle Eastern tourism further puts paid to the idea that somehow Thailand should place its entire marketing spend and tourism industry on high GDP per capita countries.

IMHO anyone who references Duncan McCargo is up there with referencing the guy who wrote The Da Vinci code to make a point about christianity. Even you say yourself 'We, Farang, have no to little idea what really goes on behind the velvet curtains of the powerful Elite.....'

If you've read his network monarchy stuff, you'd know neither does he.

[sriracha john]

Thai Political Crisis Derailing Growth, Surapong Says

Sept. 15 (Bloomberg) -- Thai Finance Minister Surapong Suebwonglee, a contender to become the nation's next Prime Minister, said economic growth may be derailed this year and next as political turmoil paralyzes government spending.

"If we cannot solve the political conflict in the very short term, GDP may be below 5 percent," Surapong, 51, said in an interview in Bangkok today. "We still hope that we can achieve 5.5 percent."

Thailand has been without a Prime Minister since Samak Sundaravej was forced to resign by a Sept. 9 court ruling that he violated the constitution. The central bank has said political instability has overtaken inflation as the biggest threat to Southeast Asia's second-largest economy, which slowed for the first time in two years in the second quarter.

"Most of the political observers think the new government may not last longer than a couple months," Surapong said. "Political turmoil is a very crucial factor for the economy."

The government's economic advisory agency on Aug. 25 said expansion may be as much as 5.7 percent this year. That compares with Merrill Lynch & Co.'s 5.1 percent estimate. Gross domestic product expanded 4.8 percent last year.

Surapong, a medical doctor, is Secretary-General of the People Power Party, which controls 315 of 480 lower-house parliamentary seats in a six-party coalition. The former spokesman for Thaksin Shinawatra will be a contender in a Party vote today to decide on the next Prime Minister.

The government had been counting on domestic consumption to buoy the economy this year amid an expected slowdown in exports, which account for 70 percent of GDP. Shipments were buoyed by rubber and rice in the second quarter amid record commodity prices, which have since fallen.

The Bank of Thailand forecasts the nation's economy will grow between 4.3 percent and 5.8 percent next year.

Exports may slow to 16.5 percent this year from 17.3 percent last year, according to the government's economic adviser. Deepening global financial market turmoil may cool demand from the nation's key export markets -- the U.S., Europe and Japan, according to a Sept. 11 Merrill Lynch & Co. report.

Goldman Sachs Group Inc. last month estimated that half of the world economy already faces recession, with richer nations faring the worst as emerging markets continue to expand. The global economy faces a 25 percent chance of recession in the next year, according to UBS AG economists.

Parliament is due to vote on a new prime minister on Sept. 17 after lawmakers boycotted a Sept. 12 session. Other People Power Party candidates include acting Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat, 61, a former judge and Thaksin's brother-in-law, and Justice Minister Sompong Amornvivat.

Consumer confidence in August fell to the lowest this year. The SET Index of stocks has sunk 25 percent since May 25, when the protesters began calling for the Prime Minister's ouster. The baht is close to its weakest level against the dollar in more than a year on concern that the political impasse will drag on.

Fitch Ratings last week said politics have affected the nation's economic policies, posing a negative risk for the sovereign rating. The rating agency ranks Thailand's long-term debt as BBB+, the eighth-highest investment grade. Moody's Investors Service earlier this month kept its stable outlook on the nation's Baa1 credit rating, indicating it's disinclined to change it.

"We are getting more concerned about political risk," said James McCormack, Hong Kong-based head of Fitch's Asian sovereign ratings. "There is no evidence so far where the resolution will come from."

Credit Suisse warned Sept. 3 that Thailand risks becoming "ungovernable" as the political situation "remains far from reaching anything resembling equilibrium."

[MiG16]

Personally I am not so convinced at all that Sondhi is backed by so many intellectuals and/or middle class; he has support no doubt, but if that support will help him to grab power....I don't know, but hope not. But he certainly planned to grab for power since this whole PAD cult-thing has nothing to do with a fight for a BETTER THAILAND, coming from Mr. Sondhi; this is his PERSONAL battle coming from a frustrated, hatred an psychotic man looking for revenge for his non-received-support from T. and his enormous bankruptcy.

Don't forget, the man lost more than 500-600 $ Million Dollars back in 1997 onwards.....

LaoPo

thats part of what I was referring to, with regards to KrungThai Bank.

after the 1997 crisis, many businesses went into bankruptcy, and lots of banks were left with huge amounts of non-performing loans (NPL). Sondhi was one of them. Many of his NPL were under negotiations with various banks, one of his major creditor being Krungthai Bank (Im sure there were other banks too). with this particular MD in control of KrungThai Bank, a large amount of Sondhi's NPL were renegotiated, substantial amounts reduced or waived completely, but all transactions had not been completed. There were still several large loans to be negotiated. However, his friend's term as MD was not extended.

those that want sources....do archive search on the Nations (yes the Nations, not BangkokPost)... quite a few years back, and you will find a number of interesting articles

by the way, those are my views as a member

but as a MOD, I have to remind everyone that it is against forum rules to discuss the Thai monarchy. so bear that in mind.

[Plus]

Do you seriously think that people come to support PAD because they want to help Sondhi with his old debt problems?

Do you think they've all been brainwashed and hypnotised?

It's nice to have a charismatic leader like Sondhi, but if it wasn't for him, there would be someone else - PAD is a social phenomenon, and channel for people to vent their frustration and anger at the current state of politics.

[jumnien]

Do you seriously think that people come to support PAD because they want to help Sondhi with his old debt problems?

Do you think they've all been brainwashed and hypnotised?

It's nice to have a charismatic leader like Sondhi, but if it wasn't for him, there would be someone else - PAD is a social phenomenon, and channel for people to vent their frustration and anger at the current state of politics.

The problem is that the current state of politics is largely the result of a handful of Bangkokians mesmerized by the rantings of the PAD clown, Sondhi.

[hammered]

Do you seriously think that people come to support PAD because they want to help Sondhi with his old debt problems?

Do you think they've all been brainwashed and hypnotised?

It's nice to have a charismatic leader like Sondhi, but if it wasn't for him, there would be someone else - PAD is a social phenomenon, and channel for people to vent their frustration and anger at the current state of politics.

Totally agree that it is a channel to vent anger at politics.

What some also miss in trying to analyse it as a Sonthi versus Thaksin is that Thaksin is seen as a threat to someone far more powerful than Sonthi.

Different people have different motivations as to why they support PAD or government or why they stay quiet and play behinf the scenes but looking at ther motivation of one person does nothing to identify what is really going on.

[Samuian]

We, Farang, have no to little idea what really goes on behind the velvet curtains of the powerful Elite; I think they just use him as a tool and once not needed anymore they will drop him like a stone.

But, there is no solution for the future yet

Edit: to answer your last question about who gave them a mandate to represent the Thai people ?.....

NOBODY: It was Sondhi, angered by his hate who formed PAD (and a sleeping political party in 2006, called the MASS PARTY..ready to act..).

We will see.

Yes and other business - believe to have recovered... the whole truth behind it may only he himself know and this is good so.

Why did Chamlong- as a former adviser leave Doc T. you didn't mention or I missed it... however I don't think that Mr.Sondhi is an heaven send revenge Angel, he is however sharing with 8 others the helm of the PAD which aims to topple THIS corrupt government AND wishes to ensure that the re-re-re-rebirth of the TRT doesn't come to handle the countries destiny again single handed, they want proper check and balance sheets. more transparency, at best wipe out nepotism, corruption, cronyism, intimidation of courts, meddling with power, the police, the army...they want to change the political course of this/their country which has been for decades held ransom by the same gang of self enriching individuals, shoveling the power forth and back ONLY between them, not allowing ANY other party or opposing power to change anything on their feeding troughs..... EVEN with my most critical spectacles on, I CAN'T SEE ANYTHING WRONG WITH THIS!

[larvidchr]

I somehow think it is a big mistake by PPP not to wholeheartedly support Samak, by not doing that they give some legitimacy to the demands from the totally insane PAD crowd, but this is Thailand, after the cooking farce I did expect some of the coalition partners would use this opportunity to pressurise PPP and negotiate for stronger positions in return for continued support of the PPP, this is politics and, it is at best a very dirty game anywhere, but also within the ranks of PPP the ugly head of the most primitive opportunism popped out, never mind that it is going to hurt Thailand.

Now they assist the PAD in strengthening their resolve because this will be perceived as a small victory by the hooligans, this means they will continue but with ever more impossible demands and Thailand will face instability for much longer because of this massive tactical mistake by some of the PPP MPs, the positions they might gain because of their short-sighted actions might turn out to be much more precarious than they have calculated on and it is for sure not in Thailand's best interest as a whole.

Most, it seems here on TV, of the strong dislike of Samak comes from he's previous history, but to be fair he never had a chance to show what he could have done, the turmoil started almost instantly after his nomination to PM, the government thus never have had a chance to get on with governing, furthermore the Government have not had the time to really do anything , no Governments in the world can in 7 month create changes that really show massive impact on the economy or a country's future development, so much more because this Government was tied hand and feet by rules and restrictions imposed by the former military dictators and the constant threat of a new takeover by the Generals if they did not like what they saw, The Samak Government first had to free themselves from these ropes and constant looming threat's. And this exactly is what the PAD leadership would not allow, they want every future Government to carry on under this control umbrella that the PAD by instigating the last coup had achieved for their secret powerful backers.

It is indeed sad times for the Thai people.

[Insight]

I somehow think it is a big mistake by PPP not to wholeheartedly support Samak, by not doing that they give some legitimacy to the demands from the totally insane PAD crowd, but this is Thailand, after the cooking farce I did expect some of the coalition partners would use this opportunity to pressurise PPP and negotiate for stronger positions in return for continued support of the PPP, this is politics and, it is at best a very dirty game anywhere, but also within the ranks of PPP the ugly head of the most primitive opportunism popped out, never mind that it is going to hurt Thailand.

Now they assist the PAD in strengthening their resolve because this will be perceived as a small victory by the hooligans, this means they will continue but with ever more impossible demands and Thailand will face instability for much longer because of this massive tactical mistake by some of the PPP MPs, the positions they might gain because of their short-sighted actions might turn out to be much more precarious than they have calculated on and it is for sure not in Thailand's best interest as a whole.

Most, it seems here on TV, of the strong dislike of Samak comes from he's previous history, but to be fair he never had a chance to show what he could have done, the turmoil started almost instantly after his nomination to PM, the government thus never have had a chance to get on with governing, furthermore the Government have not had the time to really do anything , no Governments in the world can in 7 month create changes that really show massive impact on the economy or a country's future development, so much more because this Government was tied hand and feet by rules and restrictions imposed by the former military dictators and the constant threat of a new takeover by the Generals if they did not like what they saw, The Samak Government first had to free themselves from these ropes and constant looming threat's. And this exactly is what the PAD leadership would not allow, they want every future Government to carry on under this control umbrella that the PAD by instigating the last coup had achieved for their secret powerful backers.

It is indeed sad times for the Thai people.

I think you've still got time to edit this if you get in quick. You surely can't be serious about that, can you?

[younghusband]

Do you seriously think that people come to support PAD because they want to help Sondhi with his old debt problems?

Do you think they've all been brainwashed and hypnotised?

It's nice to have a charismatic leader like Sondhi, but if it wasn't for him, there would be someone else - PAD is a social phenomenon, and channel for people to vent their frustration and anger at the current state of politics.

Totally agree that it is a channel to vent anger at politics.

What some also miss in trying to analyse it as a Sonthi versus Thaksin is that Thaksin is seen as a threat to someone far more powerful than Sonthi.

Different people have different motivations as to why they support PAD or government or why they stay quiet and play behinf the scenes but looking at ther motivation of one person does nothing to identify what is really going on.

I'm sure that many of those who were members of the pre war German Nazi party had different motives (see Ian Kershaw's monumental work for those interested) but it was frankly rather foolish of them to underestimate the agenda of Hitler and his clique.Wake up.

[h90]

I somehow think it is a big mistake by PPP not to wholeheartedly support Samak, by not doing that they give some legitimacy to the demands from the totally insane PAD crowd, but this is Thailand, after the cooking farce I did expect some of the coalition partners would use this opportunity to pressurise PPP and negotiate for stronger positions in return for continued support of the PPP, this is politics and, it is at best a very dirty game anywhere, but also within the ranks of PPP the ugly head of the most primitive opportunism popped out, never mind that it is going to hurt Thailand.

Now they assist the PAD in strengthening their resolve because this will be perceived as a small victory by the hooligans, this means they will continue but with ever more impossible demands and Thailand will face instability for much longer because of this massive tactical mistake by some of the PPP MPs, the positions they might gain because of their short-sighted actions might turn out to be much more precarious than they have calculated on and it is for sure not in Thailand's best interest as a whole.

Most, it seems here on TV, of the strong dislike of Samak comes from he's previous history, but to be fair he never had a chance to show what he could have done, the turmoil started almost instantly after his nomination to PM, the government thus never have had a chance to get on with governing, furthermore the Government have not had the time to really do anything , no Governments in the world can in 7 month create changes that really show massive impact on the economy or a country's future development, so much more because this Government was tied hand and feet by rules and restrictions imposed by the former military dictators and the constant threat of a new takeover by the Generals if they did not like what they saw, The Samak Government first had to free themselves from these ropes and constant looming threat's. And this exactly is what the PAD leadership would not allow, they want every future Government to carry on under this control umbrella that the PAD by instigating the last coup had achieved for their secret powerful backers.

It is indeed sad times for the Thai people.

which hooligans???

Samak did the temple thing for his master, he tried to change the constitution, he did not cancel Thaksins diplomatic passport, he tried to make that complete corrupt bus deal, but his history (imagine that in any different country "Just 1 died") alone would be enough to kick him out.

[h90]

Do you seriously think that people come to support PAD because they want to help Sondhi with his old debt problems?

Do you think they've all been brainwashed and hypnotised?

It's nice to have a charismatic leader like Sondhi, but if it wasn't for him, there would be someone else - PAD is a social phenomenon, and channel for people to vent their frustration and anger at the current state of politics.

Totally agree that it is a channel to vent anger at politics.

What some also miss in trying to analyse it as a Sonthi versus Thaksin is that Thaksin is seen as a threat to someone far more powerful than Sonthi.

Different people have different motivations as to why they support PAD or government or why they stay quiet and play behinf the scenes but looking at ther motivation of one person does nothing to identify what is really going on.

I'm sure that many of those who were members of the pre war German Nazi party had different motives (see Ian Kershaw's monumental work for those interested) but it was frankly rather foolish of them to underestimate the agenda of Hitler and his clique.Wake up.

and you think PAD is simillar to the NSDAP??

Adolf Limthongkul?

Sondhi Hitler???

:D

[younghusband]

Do you seriously think that people come to support PAD because they want to help Sondhi with his old debt problems?

Do you think they've all been brainwashed and hypnotised?

It's nice to have a charismatic leader like Sondhi, but if it wasn't for him, there would be someone else - PAD is a social phenomenon, and channel for people to vent their frustration and anger at the current state of politics.

Totally agree that it is a channel to vent anger at politics.

What some also miss in trying to analyse it as a Sonthi versus Thaksin is that Thaksin is seen as a threat to someone far more powerful than Sonthi.

Different people have different motivations as to why they support PAD or government or why they stay quiet and play behinf the scenes but looking at ther motivation of one person does nothing to identify what is really going on.

I'm sure that many of those who were members of the pre war German Nazi party had different motives (see Ian Kershaw's monumental work for those interested) but it was frankly rather foolish of them to underestimate the agenda of Hitler and his clique.Wake up.

and you think PAD is simillar to the NSDAP??

Adolf Limthongkul?

Sondhi Hitler???

:D

No I'm not saying that.I'm saying that in any political movemrnt it is folly to overlook the motivation of the leadership.Actually the PAD leadership has been very clear about what it wants, notwithstanding the attempts of some of its acolytes to distance themselves through the "just a discussion document approach."

Actually personally I'm not that concerned as once the PAD movement has served its attack dog purpose it will be promptly euthanised.

[sriracha john]

Mr. No Thought it is... even without the announced vote...

PPP affirm to name Somchai Wongsawat as their selection for PM

Deputy Leader of the People Power Party Police Lieutenant General Kan Thienkaew affirmed that the PPP meeting today would not vote on a selection for the Prime Minister post as the party has already agreed that current Interim PM Somchai Wongsawat will be their pick.

The Party has already deemed Somchai as the most suitable candidate for the position as he is accepted by many groups and has not met with any opposition from demonstrators. *good one*

The Deputy PPP Leader also commented that MPs showing support for Somchai are making a decision for their future as if the PPP is dissolved their support for Somchai will be their only unifying factor.

Police Lt. General Kan said MPs supporting Somchai will be able to reassemble by joining the Pua Thai party in the event the PPP is disbanded.

- ThaiNews / 2008-09-15

Edited September 15, 2008 by sriracha john