State Of Emergency In Bangkok Lifted

[Splatter]

maybe a moderator can split the thread and move the nazi part to the general forum.

Yeah, and take permanent_disorder there, too.

Another long winded off-topic post that is too long to read.

Or maybe someone can take permanent_disorder back to 1940? He is still fighting the 2nd Worldwar

I think what PD is observing is that while it appears perfectly legitimate for the PAD's propaganda campaign to compare its enemies with Hitler, anyone comparing the PAD propaganda with Nazi propaganda is dismissed as infantile.

Similarly while the PAD can compare the suspected aspirations of Thaksin and Samak with those of Hitler and his cronies- comparisons with Sondhi's and Chamlong's stated ideology (re how to build an ideal government) with Fascist ideology regarding how to build an ideal government- is met with jeers and insults.

More from Kershaw I presume?

I'd agree it is daft to misuse and manipulate visual imagery in demos, as often it makes the demonstaters look a tad infantile. Just as those of Thatcher as Hitler did in the 1980s UK. However, art has always been used in political protests. Turner and Constable were both making political statements with their landscape art.

The reason I capture the images used from many sides in Thailand, so people like PD can copy and paste the ones they need from flickr, is to show that in the past we were bombarded with a cult of personality surrounding Thaksin and now there is a response to that; trying to shatter his personality cult.

It just maybe that Hitler is the easiest dictator / disliked historical character to make artistic references with, probably because of his closer facial appearance to Thaksin. Stalin (doesn't look an ounce like Thaksin), Lenin (lack of hair is an issue), Mussolini (see Lenin), Napolean (too short, wore a silly hat) or Attila the Blinking Hun (no easy photos available for reference).

Comparing PAD or any other group in Thailand with Nazism is over simplifying and disingenious to any Thai - considering Hitler's fanaticism about racial superiority, eugenics, hate of communism, Madam Fruit Loop Bravatsky, etc.

Just LEAVE IT.

I think I was fairly careful to explain that the similarities between the PAD leadership (and I stress 'leadership') and the fascists extend ONLY to how to build the ideal form of government- not to social policy- not to economic policy- not to foreign policy- ONLY to their shared views on what form the ideal system of government should take.

You can order me to shut up all you want- but as more and more academics analyze the ideology expressed in "New Politics'= I think it won't be the last time you are exposed to these comparisons. Whether or not it makes you uncomfortable.

And the only Kershaw I'm familiar with was a cajun fiddle player named Doug.

Apologies on the Kershaw old bean. Yes, Doug was a cracker of a fiddler, but I was referring to Prof Ian Kershaw. I'm sorry. Your post reminded me of another poster who recently read a biography on Addie and posted about some of the "similarities" he wanted to find.

No problems with fascism being discussed, but best to leave off the moustachio'd one.

(Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people.)

[permanent_disorder]

maybe a moderator can split the thread and move the nazi part to the general forum.

Yeah, and take permanent_disorder there, too.

Another long winded off-topic post that is too long to read.

short version: this is a pleading against the state of emergency¹.

meanwhile and finally Sondhi & The Lunatics do some straight talking on economic policy

the PAD cult watchtower announcment on economic policy as seen on TOC:

-----

Pipob Endorses New Politics and Encourages Sufficiency Economy

People's Alliance for Democracy leader Pipob Thongchai repeated his call for new politics and urge the public to adopt the sufficiency economic principle. Pipob explained that Thailand should strive to create economic sustainability and restore the economic fundamentals which have been distorted by the Thaksin regime.

Pipob Thongchai expressed his agreement with another PAD leader Sondhi Limthongkul to resort back to what he referred to as Eastern style economic system. Pipob said he agreed with Sondhi’s proposal for Thailand to try to restore its economic balance and push for environmentally sustainable economic development.

Pipob asserted that the balance between the environment and national revenue has been distorted by the Thaksin regime. He cited the Thaksin’s regime economic liberalization efforts as some of the greatest threats to the Thai economy.

He quoted economist E. F. Schumacher’s publication titled “Small is Beautiful,” first published in 1973. It brought Schumacher’s critiques of Western economics to a wider audience during the 1973 energy crisis and emergence of globalization. Schumacher argues that the modern economy is unsustainable as natural resources are subjected to eventual depletion. Schumacher's philosophy emphasizes on ‘sufficiency,’ appreciating both human needs, limitations and appropriate use of technology. It grew out of his study of village-based economics, which he later termed “Buddhist Economics.”

Pipob further explained that new politics does not only pertain to new political developments but also involves the changes in other facets of the country, including the economic system. According to Pipob, new politics will encourage Thailand to embrace the principle of economic sufficiency.

-----

sorry, if it was posted before but:

OMG. i was afraid of something esoteric like this, comrade tree huggers go bananas. the PAD have also that woman, president of some holistic society who brought an action against former health minister for your typical corruption charges or what ever or against some other official from the food and drug administration. but that was only in revenge for that the FDA requested some laboratory test on her "natur pills" before they go over the counter as medicine. that was a treat on her own business enterprise on natural medicine on of the greatest treats on the cultural and traditional heritage of the thai nation.

but i didn't thought that they all on that level of a postmenopause middle class housewife who feels herself appointed to a "good" mission.

ecology-oriented moralist & do-gooder are the worst of all "nazis".

PAD, send the beach boys back down south behind the Rubicon to play there minigolf. the city don't need them and brew yourself a organic Rooibos tee to chill and than start to paint some aquarelle, e-mailed each other your newest haiku, go on a around-antarctica cruise, whatever, the kids will lynch you in five years if you slam the door to globalisation.

1) Carl Schmitt

[younghusband]

maybe a moderator can split the thread and move the nazi part to the general forum.

Yeah, and take permanent_disorder there, too.

Another long winded off-topic post that is too long to read.

Or maybe someone can take permanent_disorder back to 1940? He is still fighting the 2nd Worldwar

I think what PD is observing is that while it appears perfectly legitimate for the PAD's propaganda campaign to compare its enemies with Hitler, anyone comparing the PAD propaganda with Nazi propaganda is dismissed as infantile.

Similarly while the PAD can compare the suspected aspirations of Thaksin and Samak with those of Hitler and his cronies- comparisons with Sondhi's and Chamlong's stated ideology (re how to build an ideal government) with Fascist ideology regarding how to build an ideal government- is met with jeers and insults.

More from Kershaw I presume?

I'd agree it is daft to misuse and manipulate visual imagery in demos, as often it makes the demonstaters look a tad infantile. Just as those of Thatcher as Hitler did in the 1980s UK. However, art has always been used in political protests. Turner and Constable were both making political statements with their landscape art.

The reason I capture the images used from many sides in Thailand, so people like PD can copy and paste the ones they need from flickr, is to show that in the past we were bombarded with a cult of personality surrounding Thaksin and now there is a response to that; trying to shatter his personality cult.

It just maybe that Hitler is the easiest dictator / disliked historical character to make artistic references with, probably because of his closer facial appearance to Thaksin. Stalin (doesn't look an ounce like Thaksin), Lenin (lack of hair is an issue), Mussolini (see Lenin), Napolean (too short, wore a silly hat) or Attila the Blinking Hun (no easy photos available for reference).

Comparing PAD or any other group in Thailand with Nazism is over simplifying and disingenious to any Thai - considering Hitler's fanaticism about racial superiority, eugenics, hate of communism, Madam Fruit Loop Bravatsky, etc.

Just LEAVE IT.

Whether you like it or not observers will look at PAD to compare and contrast it with other reactionary movements in the past.Certainly there are some valid parallels with the fascist movement in pre-war Germany, but of course it is inappropriate to press these too far.I have also to point out that is you who is making the simplistic references.What does disingenious mean by the way?I certainly agree with you however that Thailand can do without more out of control personality cults.

[h90]

Please Admin: would you please consider a new section:

German domestic politics in the 40s as some freaks user here suspect that Sondhi is reborn Hitler, weil Chamlong is reborn Goebbels and Somsak is reborn Goebels. The meet together at Government house to rebuild the German empire....

Please move these guys in a new section (or where ever), that nonsense is not bearable and should not be in a NEWS section.

[Splatter]

What does disingenious mean? Do I sound like an online dictionary?

Otherwise all good points and thank you.

[permanent_disorder]

Yeah, and take permanent_disorder there, too.

Another long winded off-topic post that is too long to read.

Or maybe someone can take permanent_disorder back to 1940? He is still fighting the 2nd Worldwar

character to make artistic references with, ....

Just LEAVE IT.

GET OUT,GET OUT, GET OUT, GET OUT

and don't call that lame attempt to reproduce a lame attempt, the bad copy of a bad copy of a boring copy and so on, artistic.

Jonathan Meese has a manifest for the dictatorship of art, an open approach. in his theory, the PAD movement is something to puke on and he is right.

1.I think what PD is observing is that while it appears perfectly legitimate for the PAD's propaganda campaign to compare its enemies with Hitler, anyone comparing the PAD propaganda with Nazi propaganda is dismissed as infantile.

Similarly while the PAD can compare the suspected aspirations of Thaksin and Samak with those of Hitler and his cronies- comparisons with Sondhi's and Chamlong's stated ideology (re how to build an ideal government) with Fascist ideology regarding how to build an ideal government- is met with jeers and insults.

2. Honestly- in reading the quote in PD's above post (the one in bold)- and since he didn't credit it- I don't know if it was something said by the Fascists- or by the PAD. It's similarity to the one immediately above is almost uncanny.

1. they are cultist, they only see what they believe. they believe, the NEW, they final. and in that very closed theory of the cult is nothing more new that can be discovered. cultist have visions- they need a doc.

but isn't funny how they make fun of themself.

2. i don't think they even read the few announcements came out of the PAD cults mouth. but if you read the PAD cult announcements you should be able to point out if that was another lame copy or not. the is a certain lack of something. that PAD cult is run fossils.

and the PAD cultists, did they every try to convince you or just said "no, you wrong, get out" and that's it. they should read more goebbles, the pre33 goebbles would take with you. next time just give them a rattle to rattle.

and for the sake of stability there is a certain change that 70/30 would run smooth, but not with that joss sticks economics. the theoreticians of that buddhist economics are still in discord with their old catholic believes and that under their old God the catastrophe Ausschwitz was possible. the ultra shock. they blame the modernity and run into something esotherics. at that time when schuhmacher wrote his ideas down, in the sixties, maybe still possible. but just look at the population growth, world wide and here in SEA where schumacher got his quirk. a child of is time. a nice dream, but a dream. a dream got picked up by that attacs, a bunch of nationalist lunatics, world wide. they shoud take the train to north korea and celebrate Juche.

if you want freedom - milton friedman. he gots badly advertised by the us-american conservatives. but if you listen to him, you most give him right, specially if corruption that problem to solve.

What does disingenious mean? Do I sound like an online dictionary?

don't like people asking you questions? leo, leo, run to the PAD cult stage. talk their, ratteling rattles will be your only quest. hopp, hopp.

those dam_n PAD cultists behave exactly the same as a certain square face <deleted> with his X and O sign.

[Los78]

Please Admin: would you please consider a new section:

German domestic politics in the 40s as some freaks user here suspect that Sondhi is reborn Hitler, weil Chamlong is reborn Goebbels and Somsak is reborn Goebels. The meet together at Government house to rebuild the German empire....

Please move these guys in a new section (or where ever), that nonsense is not bearable and should not be in a NEWS section.

Actually a good comparison to the PAD leaders... Actually Facism was in Italy, Spain and many other South American countries so it was not just a German thing. I think the focus is on PAD nationalistic ideas and how they use propaganda the same way the Nazis used it. REmember Propaganda is very effective and PAD's Media links make it especially dangerious. ASS-TV would have to be the most one sided coverage I have ever seen. You cant compare it to government stations as they are at least fair and honest in their coverage. I dont know why you support them as if their ideas ever do happen foriegners will not be welcome to stay and you will be on a one way ticket back to Vienna.

[h90]

Please Admin: would you please consider a new section:

German domestic politics in the 40s as some freaks user here suspect that Sondhi is reborn Hitler, weil Chamlong is reborn Goebbels and Somsak is reborn Goebels. The meet together at Government house to rebuild the German empire....

Please move these guys in a new section (or where ever), that nonsense is not bearable and should not be in a NEWS section.

Actually a good comparison to the PAD leaders... Actually Facism was in Italy, Spain and many other South American countries so it was not just a German thing. I think the focus is on PAD nationalistic ideas and how they use propaganda the same way the Nazis used it. REmember Propaganda is very effective and PAD's Media links make it especially dangerious. ASS-TV would have to be the most one sided coverage I have ever seen. You cant compare it to government stations as they are at least fair and honest in their coverage. I dont know why you support them as if their ideas ever do happen foriegners will not be welcome to stay and you will be on a one way ticket back to Vienna.

And because they hate foreigners they extra made an english news channel for them (TOC)?? You just try to scare people with lies.

[Los78]

Please Admin: would you please consider a new section:

German domestic politics in the 40s as some freaks user here suspect that Sondhi is reborn Hitler, weil Chamlong is reborn Goebbels and Somsak is reborn Goebels. The meet together at Government house to rebuild the German empire....

Please move these guys in a new section (or where ever), that nonsense is not bearable and should not be in a NEWS section.

Actually a good comparison to the PAD leaders... Actually Facism was in Italy, Spain and many other South American countries so it was not just a German thing. I think the focus is on PAD nationalistic ideas and how they use propaganda the same way the Nazis used it. REmember Propaganda is very effective and PAD's Media links make it especially dangerious. ASS-TV would have to be the most one sided coverage I have ever seen. You cant compare it to government stations as they are at least fair and honest in their coverage. I dont know why you support them as if their ideas ever do happen foriegners will not be welcome to stay and you will be on a one way ticket back to Vienna.

And because they hate foreigners they extra made an english news channel for them (TOC)?? You just try to scare people with lies.

Well I am only saying what is coming from the PAD's leaders mouths. If you believe everything what is said on ASS-TV and by the hate filled PAD leadership no one can help you. You are lost to PAD's propaganda machine like what happened in EUrope in the 30's. Again Propaganda is a very effective tool and it makes people only believe one side which is what is happening to PAD supporters. They are no longer open minded people but sheep like the people infected by Hitlers speeches in the 30's. Same thing.

[Ricardo]

Some of our newer posters seem to be unaware of the degree of government-control of the Thai media, which appeared to me to be especially severe pre-coup (under Thaksin/TRT), and to a lesser extent following the December-2007 election (under Samak/PPP).

I don't suggest these posters have an agenda. Merely that they have not been around very long.

In my personal opinion the level of support on ThaiVisa for PAD's anti-corruption whistle-blowing, over the past few years, has been partly in response to this censorship or control. We farangs may well come from countries with a stronger tradition of press-freedom, or personal freedom-of-opinion, and it shows.

None of which has much to do with the thread topic.

[permanent_disorder]

And because they hate foreigners they extra made an english news channel for them (TOC)?? You just try to scare people with lies.

the PAD cult is all over the world and also in the USA. on a small rally outside the singaporean consulate in san francisco protestors and their "my american husband" telling singapore, the axis of evil, go to hel_l and demand attack all singapore companies and death for singapore.

i could not resist to post this photo, because of the most likely not thai 'white man' involved, proPAD cultists buffoons. TVforum member?

Germans fight back: boykott SINgapore!

meanwhile in bangkok

caption: Thai protesters burn the effigy of Singapore's Minister for Home Affairs Wong Kan Seng outside the Singapore embassy in Bangkok /REUTERS

"BANGKOK (Reuters) - Protesters burned posters of Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong outside the city state's Bangkok embassy ...

If Singaporeans faced the same situation as we do now, we believe Singaporeans would also rise up to do what we are doing," said Somsak Kosaisuk, a key member of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD),...

They also torched models of Singapore Airlines planes, its "merlion" national mascot and pictures of Lee's wife, Ho Ching

source

with BS, lies and hate propaganda you mobilise the masses on the street.

not the first time that the PAD Cult march against embassies of other nations. singapore have seen that a couple of times, the UK embassy too.

a ultra nationalistic stubborn mob full of lunatic propaganda. no surprise that singapore gave a travel warning after the "peaceful" mob of "civil disobedience" starts lynching people on the streets. their words become action.

Think Sondhi was also harping on about the govt at the time attempting to give a Thai island away to Cambodia. As we all know, an utterly outlandish accusation at the time that hasn't materialized to date in any way, shape or form.

Hang on...

just another case how nuts the Comedy Troupe Sondhi & the PAD Cult is. same like the accusation that the samak govt helps cambodia that Khmer wizards usings mysterious black-magic spells to weaken thailand.

Thai media reports said that the mysterious black-magic spells by Khmer wizards would not only protect the temple but also weaken Thailand. Some astrologers urged locals to wear yellow yesterday to deflect the spells.... Things got worse when Thai protesters stormed into the complex in a bid to blame Samak Sundaravej's Cabinet for the loss of sovereignty over land in Preah Vihear's vicinity.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/08/02...cs_30079581.php

The anti-government People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) leaders last night led thousands of their supporters in a rival ritual to protect the country and block any ill-effects from the Cambodian one. Many Thais believe some Cambodians have expertise in black magic.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/020808_News/02Aug2008_news01.php

and the newest conspirations? the fall of Lehmann is in all news, we not just on stage an talk some BS without providing evidence:

Sondhi Advises Thailand to Brace for Economic Crisis

...

Sondhi then went on to discuss the current financial crisis in the U.S., after Lehman Brothers, the U.S.’s fourth largest investment banker, has filed for bankruptcy. He cited an earlier attempt by caretaker Finance Minister Surapong Suebwonglee to establish a national investment fund. Sondhi claimed that part of the fund was to be used to invest in Lehman Brothers. He alleged that Surapong only wanted to make money from the fund for himself and not for Thailand.

Sondhi added that the country needs new politics not only to prevent corrupt politicians from being appointed but also to ensure the stability of the Thai economy by allowing the public to effectively monitor the government’s spending.

from TOC

-----------

and onnother Sondhi & The Lunatics talk on economic policy:

Sondhi Believes Thailand Will Be Hard Hit by U.S. Financial Crisis

UPDATE : 18 September 2008

Sondhi Limthongkul, a key People's Alliance for Democracy leader, predicts that Thailand will be hard hit by the U.S. financial crisis as giant financial conglomerates fall prey to the burgeoning sub-prime problem.

Sondhi Limthongkul last night expressed his disappointment at other media organizations for comparing ASTV to a charity case. Sondhi explained that the public has been donating money to ASTV because they want ASTV to be able to continue to broadcast and not because they feel sorry for the satellite TV station.

The PAD leader then spoke about U.S.'s fourth largest investment banking conglomerate, Lehman Brothers, and its recent filing for bankruptcy. Sondhi blamed Lehman Brothers collapse on U.S. capitalism, speculative trading and price manipulation.

He then touched on one of the key event in Thailand’s economic history, the devaluation of the Thai baht. Sondhi clarified that the Thai baht has been devalued twice. The first devaluation took place during the term of former PM General Prem Tinsulanonda. The plan to devalue the Thai currency was kept a secret and collateral damage on the economy from the devaluation was kept to the minimum.

The second devaluation took place during General Chavalit Yongchaiyud's administration, whose allegedly suspicious handling of the arrangement may have propelled Thailand towards the Tom Yum Kung Financial crisis in 1997.

Sondhi believes that the current financial crisis in the U.S. will continue to deteriorate and cautioned the public to be cautious about their spending and investment decisions.

http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/toc/ViewData...?DataID=1009520

the TOC channel is maoiste daily propaganda mouthpiece Brother # 1 & The 10 Moralist.

just look how he play with the fear of the people. than he explain how the international money cheat all people (remember weimar republic? who was blamed?)

and than come his solution:

anyone bother to check out what this E. F. Schumacher is about? crazy country side small village life. Schumacher an early new ager + no reason for export in his Mesoputopia vision. no reason for foreigners be here.

those people total nuts. that can turn out in strange wakko countryside environmental juche hoxha nazi kibbutz jonestown lemonade colonia dignidad camp colony mini feng shuii KZ., one every 17km² THE HORROR

with that economy the PAD is 100% a CULT.

[permanent_disorder]

Some of our newer posters seem to be unaware of the degree of government-control of the Thai media, which appeared to me to be especially severe pre-coup (under Thaksin/TRT), and to a lesser extent following the December-2007 election (under Samak/PPP).

I don't suggest these posters have an agenda. Merely that they have not been around very long.

In my personal opinion the level of support on ThaiVisa for PAD's anti-corruption whistle-blowing, over the past few years, has been partly in response to this censorship or control. We farangs may well come from countries with a stronger tradition of press-freedom, or personal freedom-of-opinion, and it shows.

None of which has much to do with the thread topic.

that mob is not doing any better, nor will their vision how they country should run do something against the roots of corruption. don't believe in promises or just what their intention is look at the results it will bring.

they want the permanent State of Emergency, they want das Ermächtigungsgesetz. und that is the topic here.

i come from a country with only a few years of of press-freedom, or personal freedom-of-opinion, but a strong tradition of the opposite and the half time of my life i spend under a dictatorship. but just my life experience dosn't make me to an expert. that i spend my time with reading some odd books and attend a few university course on it dosn't make to an expert, but i still want to express my opinion.

maybe some farangs come from countries with a stronger tradition of press-freedom, or personal freedom-of-opinion, and dosn't have experience how that right can be cut. all they want is a little bit revolution baby and taksin get out sounds cool, because he is rich und i have little and since 2001(was it that year) the gogos not open all night. thats why they have a hate agenda.

can you me telling anything about the PAD that would convince me that they are cool. i ask all the time, no one can of the proPADcultist

ouk bai, ouk bai, is not enough and failed already. after a coup the people give again the old ones their vote. during the coup, lot's of corruption, nasty people like Pallop Pinmanee, where have been the yellow mob that time, ahh he is one of them. okay.

good intentions are not enough, good intention tend to turn bad. we have seen that in history and a repeat would be stupid.

[AlKing]

What about this. Why don't Thai government freeze all the Singaporean asset in Thailand, and let them one by one explain the source of all that Thai Bahts. I'am sure most will be linked to Thaksin or the TRT. Upon confiscating the wealth, Thailand will have enough money to give a tax break all all Thai for the next 100 years.

[AlKing]

Another idea. PAD should organise a sit-in protest (civil disobe... crap) inside one of the many SQ plane park overnight in Swampy.

I don't really know the details, but I think if you shoot someone who wonder into your porperty, it is consider self defence, regardless what's the motive of the intruder. Again, as always, I could be wrong.

[Jai Dee]

Army Commander and former CNS Secretary-General declines to comment on 2 year anniversary of revolution

Royal Thai Army Commander General Anupong Paojinda (อนุพงษ์ เผ่าจินดา) will this morning travel to the Artillery Command Center in Lopburi province to preside over the retirement ceremony of many high ranking military officers.

Today (September 19th) however, marks the 2 year anniversary of the revolution conducted by the Council for National Security that relieved the Thaksin Shinawatra Administration. General Anupong is the former Secretary-General of the CNS but declined to speak on the matter to the press.

The commander previously answered queries on the event before boarding a plane in Petchburi province by stating that he has no opinions on events that have already passed and asked that all parties seek to care more for the future.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 19 September 2008

[Ricardo]

Actually a good comparison to the PAD leaders... Actually Facism was in Italy, Spain and many other South American countries so it was not just a German thing. I think the focus is on PAD nationalistic ideas and how they use propaganda the same way the Nazis used it. REmember Propaganda is very effective and PAD's Media links make it especially dangerious. ASS-TV would have to be the most one sided coverage I have ever seen. You cant compare it to government stations as they are at least fair and honest in their coverage. I dont know why you support them as if their ideas ever do happen foriegners will not be welcome to stay and you will be on a one way ticket back to Vienna.

This is the claim, that government stations were fair and honest in their coverage, which I disagreed with.

Some of our newer posters seem to be unaware of the degree of government-control of the Thai media, which appeared to me to be especially severe pre-coup (under Thaksin/TRT), and to a lesser extent following the December-2007 election (under Samak/PPP).

I don't suggest these posters have an agenda. Merely that they have not been around very long.

In my personal opinion the level of support on ThaiVisa for PAD's anti-corruption whistle-blowing, over the past few years, has been partly in response to this censorship or control. We farangs may well come from countries with a stronger tradition of press-freedom, or personal freedom-of-opinion, and it shows.

None of which has much to do with the thread topic.

that mob is not doing any better, nor will their vision how they country should run do something against the roots of corruption. don't believe in promises or just what their intention is look at the results it will bring.

You don't think it is helpful, to expose corruption or nepotism, within the government or (any) party-politics ?

they want the permanent State of Emergency, they want das Ermächtigungsgesetz. und that is the topic here.

But it was Samak who declared the State of Emergency, with all the damage to tourism and the economy it entailed, not the PAD. This thread was about the (eventual) lifting of the SoE, not censorship or freedom-of-the-media, or how anybody who agrees with some of PAD's actions is some kind of fascist.

i come from a country with only a few years of of press-freedom, or personal freedom-of-opinion, but a strong tradition of the opposite and the half time of my life i spend under a dictatorship. but just my life experience dosn't make me to an expert. that i spend my time with reading some odd books and attend a few university course on it dosn't make to an expert, but i still want to express my opinion.

maybe some farangs come from countries with a stronger tradition of press-freedom, or personal freedom-of-opinion, and dosn't have experience how that right can be cut. all they want is a little bit revolution baby and taksin get out sounds cool, because he is rich und i have little and since 2001(was it that year) the gogos not open all night. thats why they have a hate agenda.

So anybody who supports the right of the PAD to demonstrate, or expose corruption, is motivated by hate for Thaksin, because he closed the Go-Go Bars earlier at night-time. I find it hard to accept that you're serious. ?

can you me telling anything about the PAD that would convince me that they are cool. i ask all the time, no one can of the proPADcultist

Calling other members silly names is unlikely to advance your cause IMHO.

ouk bai, ouk bai, is not enough and failed already. after a coup the people give again the old ones their vote. during the coup, lot's of corruption, nasty people like Pallop Pinmanee, where have been the yellow mob that time, ahh he is one of them. okay.

good intentions are not enough, good intention tend to turn bad. we have seen that in history and a repeat would be stupid.

Perhaps you might publicise this more. Personally I don't limit my criticism of corruption to only Thasin/TRT/Samak/PPP. Corruption diverts the country's investment away from where it would do some good, and help the poor people, so it should be exposed.

Perhaps start a new thread on Corruption during the junta-appointed government's time-in-power ?

Edited September 19, 2008 by Ricardo

[AlKing]

Actually a good comparison to the PAD leaders... Actually Facism was in Italy, Spain and many other South American countries so it was not just a German thing. I think the focus is on PAD nationalistic ideas and how they use propaganda the same way the Nazis used it. REmember Propaganda is very effective and PAD's Media links make it especially dangerious. ASS-TV would have to be the most one sided coverage I have ever seen. You cant compare it to government stations as they are at least fair and honest in their coverage. I dont know why you support them as if their ideas ever do happen foriegners will not be welcome to stay and you will be on a one way ticket back to Vienna.

It just happen than Hitler loss. What happens if Hitler won the war, and united the whole of Europe (including UK, Iceland & Greenland, Cyprus, Malta). He will now be remember as the great hero which united the whole Europe. And Europe as a single country, a single language (German), a single currency, a single parliment, a single President. He could then order to build the Great Wall of Germany to keep the barbaric Russian from the East out (like the Chinese Empror keeping the Mongul out). We all will be all typing in German language now.

However, Hitler loss and his Nazi was flush down the loo. Too bad. Nobady like to side the looser.

[hammered]

Is there any chance that a thread related to the lifting of a state of emergency in Thailand could avoid discussion of emotive historical events in Europe 60 or 70 years ago which have absolutely no connection to what is happening in Thailand today and just distract from serious discussion of substantive issues? I guess not. i dont know how many responses one has to go back to find somethin on topic and relevent to states of emergency in Thailand.

[h90]

Actually a good comparison to the PAD leaders... Actually Facism was in Italy, Spain and many other South American countries so it was not just a German thing. I think the focus is on PAD nationalistic ideas and how they use propaganda the same way the Nazis used it. REmember Propaganda is very effective and PAD's Media links make it especially dangerious. ASS-TV would have to be the most one sided coverage I have ever seen. You cant compare it to government stations as they are at least fair and honest in their coverage. I dont know why you support them as if their ideas ever do happen foriegners will not be welcome to stay and you will be on a one way ticket back to Vienna.

It just happen than Hitler loss. What happens if Hitler won the war, and united the whole of Europe (including UK, Iceland & Greenland, Cyprus, Malta). He will now be remember as the great hero which united the whole Europe. And Europe as a single country, a single language (German), a single currency, a single parliment, a single President. He could then order to build the Great Wall of Germany to keep the barbaric Russian from the East out (like the Chinese Empror keeping the Mongul out). We all will be all typing in German language now.

However, Hitler loss and his Nazi was flush down the loo. Too bad. Nobady like to side the looser.

Well history is written from the winner.....By now that empire might be fallen appart again like the Soviet union.....

[Splatter]

Does anyone have any updates on what is happening on Sanam Luang at the moment?

...and whether rumours I am hearing about another clash at / near Government House tonight have any basis?

Now that would bring this thread back to discussing SoE's.

[ubonjoe]

14 companies soldiers and police to be deployed to prevent clash between PAD, DAAD

Fourteen companies of policemen and soldiers will be deployed to prevent demonstrators led by Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship and People's Alliance for Democracy from moving toward each other and clash, a deputy police chief said.

Pol Maj Gen Surapol Thuanthong, deputy police commissioner-general, said the security officers would be deployed at three locations when the DAAD begin its rally at Sanam Luang in the evening.

The first line of security officers will be deployed at the Phan Fah Leelas Bridge, the second line in front of the Agriculture Ministry and the last line in front of the Army headquarters.

He said five companies of policemen and five companies of soldiers will be stationed at the area in front of the Army head office and the officers will be fully armed with crowd-control tools, backed up by fire trucks and barbed wires.

The Nation

[Splatter]

Thanks Joe.

I saw this one earlier from the Bankok Post.

19th September.

... Oh good grief, I hope it doesn't kick off again....

"Army chief Anupong Paojinda has warned the pro-government United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) to avoid any clashes with government opponents when it holds a rally today to mark the second anniversary of the 2006 military coup. Gen Anupong asked the UDD, which will rally at Sanam Luang today to mark the coup which took place exactly two years ago, to make sure they are not armed.

Some fear the group could march from Sanam Luang and attack People's Alliance for Democracy supporters occupying Government House.

He said the UDD had the right to stage a peaceful gathering under the law.

If the group wanted to move from Sanam Luang, police would try to persuade its members not to go to any areas where they would clash with government opponents.

Gen Anupong chairs a joint committee monitoring security following the Sept 2 clash between the UDD and the PAD, which left one dead and 43 injured.

He issued his warning amid speculation that unrest could erupt again.

If necessary, the military is ready to send soldiers to back up police, he said. However, the soldiers would not carry weapons.

Jaran Ditha-apichai, a UDD leader, said about 5,000 supporters are expected to join the rally at Sanam Luang, where a forum would be held to point out to people how the coup-makers damaged the country.

The UDD has invited some of the 111 former Thai Rak Thai executives banned from politics for five years to make speeches at the rally.

He said his group has no plans to march from Sanam Luang. However, if more than 100,000 people turn up, the group may seek a resolution from its supporters on whether they want to march to another venue. "

[sriracha john]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Somchai-Wong...21#entry2224521 thread has the updates on what the new PM is facing, eg. a repeat DAAD/PAD street war.

This thread has been taken over by Prussia.

Edited September 19, 2008 by sriracha john

[clausewitz]

And because they hate foreigners they extra made an english news channel for them (TOC)?? You just try to scare people with lies.

the PAD cult is all over the world and also in the USA. on a small rally outside the singaporean consulate in san francisco protestors and their "my american husband" telling singapore, the axis of evil, go to hel_l and demand attack all singapore companies and death for singapore.

i could not resist to post this photo, because of the most likely not thai 'white man' involved, proPAD cultists buffoons. TVforum member?

Germans fight back: boykott SINgapore!

meanwhile in bangkok

caption: Thai protesters burn the effigy of Singapore's Minister for Home Affairs Wong Kan Seng outside the Singapore embassy in Bangkok /REUTERS

"BANGKOK (Reuters) - Protesters burned posters of Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong outside the city state's Bangkok embassy ...

If Singaporeans faced the same situation as we do now, we believe Singaporeans would also rise up to do what we are doing," said Somsak Kosaisuk, a key member of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD),...

They also torched models of Singapore Airlines planes, its "merlion" national mascot and pictures of Lee's wife, Ho Ching

source

with BS, lies and hate propaganda you mobilise the masses on the street.

not the first time that the PAD Cult march against embassies of other nations. singapore have seen that a couple of times, the UK embassy too.

a ultra nationalistic stubborn mob full of lunatic propaganda. no surprise that singapore gave a travel warning after the "peaceful" mob of "civil disobedience" starts lynching people on the streets. their words become action.

Think Sondhi was also harping on about the govt at the time attempting to give a Thai island away to Cambodia. As we all know, an utterly outlandish accusation at the time that hasn't materialized to date in any way, shape or form.

Hang on...

just another case how nuts the Comedy Troupe Sondhi & the PAD Cult is. same like the accusation that the samak govt helps cambodia that Khmer wizards usings mysterious black-magic spells to weaken thailand.

Thai media reports said that the mysterious black-magic spells by Khmer wizards would not only protect the temple but also weaken Thailand. Some astrologers urged locals to wear yellow yesterday to deflect the spells.... Things got worse when Thai protesters stormed into the complex in a bid to blame Samak Sundaravej's Cabinet for the loss of sovereignty over land in Preah Vihear's vicinity.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/08/02...cs_30079581.php

The anti-government People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) leaders last night led thousands of their supporters in a rival ritual to protect the country and block any ill-effects from the Cambodian one. Many Thais believe some Cambodians have expertise in black magic.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/020808_News/02Aug2008_news01.php

and the newest conspirations? the fall of Lehmann is in all news, we not just on stage an talk some BS without providing evidence:

Sondhi Advises Thailand to Brace for Economic Crisis

...

Sondhi then went on to discuss the current financial crisis in the U.S., after Lehman Brothers, the U.S.’s fourth largest investment banker, has filed for bankruptcy. He cited an earlier attempt by caretaker Finance Minister Surapong Suebwonglee to establish a national investment fund. Sondhi claimed that part of the fund was to be used to invest in Lehman Brothers. He alleged that Surapong only wanted to make money from the fund for himself and not for Thailand.

Sondhi added that the country needs new politics not only to prevent corrupt politicians from being appointed but also to ensure the stability of the Thai economy by allowing the public to effectively monitor the government’s spending.

from TOC

-----------

and onnother Sondhi & The Lunatics talk on economic policy:

Sondhi Believes Thailand Will Be Hard Hit by U.S. Financial Crisis

UPDATE : 18 September 2008

Sondhi Limthongkul, a key People's Alliance for Democracy leader, predicts that Thailand will be hard hit by the U.S. financial crisis as giant financial conglomerates fall prey to the burgeoning sub-prime problem.

Sondhi Limthongkul last night expressed his disappointment at other media organizations for comparing ASTV to a charity case. Sondhi explained that the public has been donating money to ASTV because they want ASTV to be able to continue to broadcast and not because they feel sorry for the satellite TV station.

The PAD leader then spoke about U.S.'s fourth largest investment banking conglomerate, Lehman Brothers, and its recent filing for bankruptcy. Sondhi blamed Lehman Brothers collapse on U.S. capitalism, speculative trading and price manipulation.

He then touched on one of the key event in Thailand’s economic history, the devaluation of the Thai baht. Sondhi clarified that the Thai baht has been devalued twice. The first devaluation took place during the term of former PM General Prem Tinsulanonda. The plan to devalue the Thai currency was kept a secret and collateral damage on the economy from the devaluation was kept to the minimum.

The second devaluation took place during General Chavalit Yongchaiyud's administration, whose allegedly suspicious handling of the arrangement may have propelled Thailand towards the Tom Yum Kung Financial crisis in 1997.

Sondhi believes that the current financial crisis in the U.S. will continue to deteriorate and cautioned the public to be cautious about their spending and investment decisions.

http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/toc/ViewData...?DataID=1009520

the TOC channel is maoiste daily propaganda mouthpiece Brother # 1 & The 10 Moralist.

just look how he play with the fear of the people. than he explain how the international money cheat all people (remember weimar republic? who was blamed?)

and than come his solution:

anyone bother to check out what this E. F. Schumacher is about? crazy country side small village life. Schumacher an early new ager + no reason for export in his Mesoputopia vision. no reason for foreigners be here.

those people total nuts. that can turn out in strange wakko countryside environmental juche hoxha nazi kibbutz jonestown lemonade colonia dignidad camp colony mini feng shuii KZ., one every 17km² THE HORROR

with that economy the PAD is 100% a CULT.

When I started a few months ago posting aginst PAD I assumed they were simply loony tunes - what with Chamlong being a leader and the cult monks from Santi asoke etc- but now it appers they are genuinely sinister, kind of glad this forum is anonymous since I reside in bangkok.

[hammered]

Interesting how a few characters seem to bump this Nazi rubbish up every so often with an inane comment. I would suggest a study of Asian, SE Asian and maybe more spefically a stuidy of Thai history particularly Thai social and politcal history may do more to explain the current situation rather than try to use some Eurocentric exceptionalism to analyse something that is of a very different nature.

Learning about the country in which one resides is an entirely worthwhile pursuit imho and it may also spare us the the emotive and totally inaccurate and for some distressing spectacles of having to be exposed to old Nazi and anti-semitic propoganda just to try and make some cheap politcal point.

Back to the SoE. Lets hope the events of tonight surrounding the UDD rally do not lead to another one.

[permanent_disorder]

When I started a few months ago posting aginst PAD I assumed they were simply loony tunes - what with Chamlong being a leader and the cult monks from Santi asoke etc- but now it appers they are genuinely sinister, kind of glad this forum is anonymous since I reside in bangkok.

yep, maybe the topic should renamed: Emergency: state at the end of the cliff, because all this is indeed are a emergency situation. i don't understand why others ignore this.

[citizen33]

Interesting how a few characters seem to bump this Nazi rubbish up every so often with an inane comment. I would suggest a study of Asian, SE Asian and maybe more spefically a stuidy of Thai history particularly Thai social and politcal history may do more to explain the current situation rather than try to use some Eurocentric exceptionalism to analyse something that is of a very different nature.

Learning about the country in which one resides is an entirely worthwhile pursuit imho and it may also spare us the the emotive and totally inaccurate and for some distressing spectacles of having to be exposed to old Nazi and anti-semitic propoganda just to try and make some cheap politcal point.

Back to the SoE. Lets hope the events of tonight surrounding the UDD rally do not lead to another one.

I would agree that the direct comparison with National Socialism takes things too far. However I'd say that there is a certain parallel between the forms of rhetoric and discourse used by the PAD and those used by totalitarian movements to win support, including the Nazis. After the last war the American literary critic Kenneth Burke grappled with the question of why the Nazis had won so many apparently sensible people to their cause. He published a series of books and articles (e.g. A Rhetoric of Motives; the Rhetoric of Hitler's "Battle", etc.) which attempted to analyze the forms of persuasive discourse used by the Nazi leaders. Many have resurfaced in the recent past with totalitarian movements of various kinds, and some of the PAD statements seem very close to the things Burke described. It is interesting to reflect upon whether these rhetorical forms are universal or whether the specifics of Thai culture and history somehow change the functions they serve.

Edited September 19, 2008 by citizen33

[younghusband]

Interesting how a few characters seem to bump this Nazi rubbish up every so often with an inane comment. I would suggest a study of Asian, SE Asian and maybe more spefically a stuidy of Thai history particularly Thai social and politcal history may do more to explain the current situation rather than try to use some Eurocentric exceptionalism to analyse something that is of a very different nature.

Learning about the country in which one resides is an entirely worthwhile pursuit imho and it may also spare us the the emotive and totally inaccurate and for some distressing spectacles of having to be exposed to old Nazi and anti-semitic propoganda just to try and make some cheap politcal point.

Back to the SoE. Lets hope the events of tonight surrounding the UDD rally do not lead to another one.

You are protesting too much I'm afraid.It's perfectly valid to point out the similarities between PAD tactics and the pre-war German Nazi movement.Until well intentioned people on this forum and elsewhere wake up to the disgusting nature of the PAD leadership any efforts to put this movement in a historical context are welcome.Thailand is not a world on its own much as though some would argue that every facet of culture,politics and society here is unique.It's perfectly valid to despise Thaksin and his efforts to swamp the democratic process but until one hears those holding this view condemning the PAD leadership for the repulsive and creepy gang they are, the suspicion remains of sympathy for the feudal elite's agenda.

Anyway it seems now the PAD rabble are squabbling among themselves.As I have said before the movement will at some point be crushed once its attack dog function has been deemed to be fully played out.It will take just a nod of the head.

[Plus]

some of the PAD statements seem very close to the things Burke described

Which ones are those?

And what is so totalitarian about PAD?

[Los78]

Interesting how a few characters seem to bump this Nazi rubbish up every so often with an inane comment. I would suggest a study of Asian, SE Asian and maybe more spefically a stuidy of Thai history particularly Thai social and politcal history may do more to explain the current situation rather than try to use some Eurocentric exceptionalism to analyse something that is of a very different nature.

Learning about the country in which one resides is an entirely worthwhile pursuit imho and it may also spare us the the emotive and totally inaccurate and for some distressing spectacles of having to be exposed to old Nazi and anti-semitic propoganda just to try and make some cheap politcal point.

Back to the SoE. Lets hope the events of tonight surrounding the UDD rally do not lead to another one.

Well if you havnt seen all the propaganda that PAD use? Swastikas and etc. So its PAD who uses the NAZI rubbish not the government. We are just saying their propagandha and views have similarities to Nazi rallies. All the PAD sheep are so brainwashed by the PAD speeches.