Lack Of Snakes

[lannaman]

We live in the country 2kms outside Chiang Rai City and usually we see a lot of snakes during the rainy season. This year I've only seen one. Anyone experiencing the same lack of sightings?

Attaching two photos from last year:

1. A King Cobra in a boot. gave my wife a major 'Tok Jai"!

2. A Banded Krait - The most deadly in LOS

A good website for ID-ing snakes and other creepy-crawklies is:

http://www.siam-info.de/english/snakes_poisonous.html (underscore between snakes_poisonous)

[klikster]

Add to this that someone not too long ago .. right here on TV .. suggested that keeping "constricting elastic bands" around for snake bite treatment is a good idea.

That might be a so-so idea for hemotoxic critters, but Cobras and Banded Kraits inject a neurotoxin.

Doing something stupid like trying a tournaquet just delays what should be a quick trip to an emergengy room.

[sceadugenga]

My maid got one recently, waste of time trying to tell her to gently usher them back into the rice.

[Murgatroyd]

Using a constricting elastic band as a tournaquet is a ludicrous thing to do... all tournaquets must be loosened every few minutes, or the area beyond the constiction will be deprived of fresh blood and begin to die... gangrene will set it and the limb may be lost.

[sceadugenga]

Last I heard from Australian Ambulance people was to wash the bite immediately in clean water to remove excess venom and place a tight but not too tight bandage over the wound.

As Murgatroyd says, make haste to the nearest hospital.

In the 1950's my father's snakebite kit carried tourniquet plus razor sharp knifey thing to cut and bleed the wound. I have a vague memory of a bottle of Condies Chrystals that were supposed to be tipped in the mess afterwards.

Us kids took great care not to get snakebit.

[klikster]

Last I heard from Australian Ambulance people was to wash the bite immediately in clean water to remove excess venom and place a tight but not too tight bandage over the wound.

As Murgatroyd says, make haste to the nearest hospital.

In the 1950's my father's snakebite kit carried tourniquet plus razor sharp knifey thing to cut and bleed the wound. I have a vague memory of a bottle of Condies Chrystals that were supposed to be tipped in the mess afterwards.

Us kids took great care not to get snakebit.

Not the correct procedure for a neurotoxin.

[sceadugenga]

Or any other type of poisonous bite, apparently I was wrong about the washing as well.

First Aid for Snake Bites:

Do NOT wash the area of the bite!

It is extremely important to retain traces of venom for use with venom identification kits!

Stop lymphatic spread - bandage firmly, splint and immobilise!

The "pressure-immobilisation" technique is currently recommended by the Australian Resuscitation Council, the Royal Australasian College of Surgeons and the Australian and New Zealand College of Anaesthetists.

The lymphatic system is responsible for systemic spread of most venoms. This can be reduced by the application of a firm bandage (as firm as you would put on a sprained ankle) over a folded pad placed over the bitten area. While firm, it should not be so tight that it stops blood flow to the limb or to congests the veins. Start bandaging directly over the bitten area, ensuing that the pressure over the bite is firm and even. If you have enough bandage you can extend towards more central parts of the body, to delay spread of any venom that has already started to move centrally. A pressure dressing should be applied even if the bite is on the victims trunk or torso.

Immobility is best attained by application of a splint or sling, using a bandage or whatever to hand to absolutely minimise all limb movement, reassurance and immobilisation (eg, putting the patient on a stretcher). Where possible, bring transportation to the patient (rather then vice versa). Don't allow the victim to walk or move a limb. Walking should be prevented.

The pressure-immobilisation approach is simple, safe and will not cause iatrogenic tissue damage (ie, from incision, injection, freezing or arterial torniquets - all of which are ineffective).

Link

[klikster]

The point I'm trying to make ..

From WikiPedia

Cobra venom is a postsynaptic neurotoxin. It works by stopping the acetylcholine molecules in the diaphragm muscle from interacting. Without treatment death from respiratory failure may occur as early as 30 minutes after being bitten.

If someone who doesn't really know what they are doing, the 5 or 10 minutes to hunt down that bandage tucked into a box somewhere and start the wrapping process might be better spent getting the victim to a hospital.

[phaethon]

If someone who doesn't really know what they are doing, the 5 or 10 minutes to hunt down that bandage tucked into a box somewhere and start the wrapping process might be better spent getting the victim to a hospital.

Agreed, but first aid items should be kept findable and accessible - near where the car keys are usually kept, or even in the vehicle and - in the case of snake bites - used en-route. The trouble is people don't think about dealing with things like this until they actually happen. I'm waiting for someone to post:

Help! I've just been bitten by a snake - what do I do?

Think ahead. Do you know where the best (not necessarily the closest) place to go for help is? Can you find your way there? At night? Who would drive you if you were the one bitten? (you don't want to set out alone if you can help it) Would you be able to find your keys in a hurry? (Where are they RIGHT NOW?). If you live alone or the wife has gone shopping or the car/bike/helicopter is broken, who are your neighbours, who is level-headed, who has transport, where do the local police hang out?

How many people have actually sat down and thought about these things? It only takes a couple of minutes and maybe some casual enquiries at a local doctor/clinic. Same-same with fire, serious injury, sudden illness. I'm not talking about worrying yourself to death, just ask yourself "What would I do if..?"

[sceadugenga]

Agreed, and if you happen to get bitten near my house, then I'll guarantee you that I'll have the bandage ready in the time it takes my wife to get the car out to drive you the 30kms to the nearest hospital.

I don't know why any one would even bother having first aid stuff that it took ten minutes to find.

[goski]

And with all the protectomania that for example the US and A has they still can't cope with ceratin issues. So going around thinking about "what would I do if I get run over at this intersection", "what would I do if I get a heart attack", "what would I do if I get food poisoning from this food", "what would I do if I set my wife on fire" etc.

A Hilux stacked with medical supplies might help on the road and vit zome german precizion organizing it it would be a good idea. But really, how many people here have actually been bitten by a snake, or even knows someone who has?

[Farma]

Bluddy ell Klikster, 2 weeks ago a 14 yo boy in the middle of a Melbourne park managed to find something to use as a bandage for his mate who was bitten.

If an adult here in Thailand can’t manage to rip his shirt up when bitten maybe they shouldn’t be allowed out the front door without a trained medic in attendance.

[goski]

I stopped short on the second sentence. I don't know why. It should say "... etc, is not really helping".

[klikster]

Bluddy ell Klikster, 2 weeks ago a 14 yo boy in the middle of a Melbourne park managed to find something to use as a bandage for his mate who was bitten.

If an adult here in Thailand can’t manage to rip his shirt up when bitten maybe they shouldn’t be allowed out the front door without a trained medic in attendance.

^ ditto what goski said

@sceadugenga .. remember, yesterday you would have had some " .. tourniquet plus razor sharp knifey thing ..' and been trying to " .. cut and bleed the wound .." as your wife drives a dying victim to the hospital.

@phaethon .. I agree with most of what you say, but:

• "near where the car keys are usually kept .. " "Where are the hel_l are the car keys?!?!"
  
• " .. or even in the vehicle and - in the case of snake bites - used en-route. " .. second set of supplies maybe. "Quick, get the .. opps, wife took the car to .."
  

I was an independent duty medic in Vietnam and can tell you that usually, knowing what not to try is far better than trying something that you really don't understand.

[phaethon]

I was an independent duty medic in Vietnam and can tell you that usually, knowing what not to try is far better than trying something that you really don't understand.

Actually that is a point, I tend to assume (=ASS+U+ME) that if someone is responsibleenough to assemble a first-aid kit,then they will have taken the trouble to learn howto use it.

There are many places to pick up first-aid qualifications in the UK including through one's work or walk-in off the street. But where would one advise people to go to get training in Thailand. Local hospital, Red Cross? Is there a St John's Ambulance equivalent?

[lukamar]

There are many places to pick up first-aid qualifications in the UK including through one's work or walk-in off the street. But where would one advise people to go to get training in Thailand. Local hospital, Red Cross? Is there a St John's Ambulance equivalent?

There is a good book everyone should have on hand and have read.

Guide to Healthy living in Thailand and Southeast Asia. by the Thai Red cross society. Asia Books ISBN 9748303497

It has something on everything you may encounter in SE Asia including, snakes, spiders toxic plants etc. as well as prevention and treatments for all sorts of things that we may not know about because we did not grow up in the area.

[chang35baht]

Scead, contact the Oz ambulance guys immediately and inform them of their incorrect procedure for snakebit kids.

[Canadianvisitor]

Well I'll be!

I was in Pattaya for a few days and I saw this huge snake.

Huge is about 1.5 metres.

It was golden brown with a golden belly.

I asked the locals what I had seen as it froze me as it came from the bush and went across the street.

They asked me if it was grey, I said "No."

They said "Then it wasn't a Cobra."

Then what colour is that Cobra in that boot in the initial post?

It was exactly the same as the snake I saw in Pattaya.

Are Cobra other colours than gray?

[sceadugenga]

Scead, contact the Oz ambulance guys immediately and inform them of their incorrect procedure for snakebit kids.

That info was years old chang. The procedure seems to change as we learn more about snake bite.

Klickster, if you take the trouble to read my post you'll see that the first aid kit referred to would be 60 years old now, it probably had a bottle with leeches in it as well.

So from your experience as a medic would you advise against placing a pressure bandage on the bite if one was readily available and wouldn't involve considerable loss of time in getting the patient to the hospital?

[lannaman]

Well I'll be!

I was in Pattaya for a few days and I saw this huge snake.

Huge is about 1.5 metres.

It was golden brown with a golden belly.

I asked the locals what I had seen as it froze me as it came from the bush and went across the street.

They asked me if it was grey, I said "No."

They said "Then it wasn't a Cobra."

Then what colour is that Cobra in that boot in the initial post?

It was exactly the same as the snake I saw in Pattaya.

Are Cobra other colours than gray?

Look at the website i suggested when i started the thread: http://www.siam-info.de/english/snakes_poisonous.html

It looks that you might have seen either a King or a Naga. The photos on the site both look a bit golden. Maybe the colour does vary a bit. The one in the boot was photographed (nearly typed shot!) by my wife so I didn't see it's head. If she killed it she never told me!

[mumbojumbo]

Are Cobra other colours than gray?

I have found cobras are from the color pea green to almost black, never banded.

[chivo]

I've only seen one snake in c-rai, at least a meter long, and as i've been told that they are at least as frightened of us, it slithered away with no objections from me.

I realize they are a part of the ecosystem, but if i start to feel their presence on my land around my house, i'm comfortable with making them not part of the ecosystem. I don't need my kids or dogs being bit.

With regards to snake bites, I have been told that knowing what kind of snake it was is of key importance so that the correct anti-venom can be administered. different fixes for different snakes. Which means either capturing/ killing the snake to bring in, or having an accurate photographic memory.

[sceadugenga]

Are Cobra other colours than gray?

I have found cobras are from the color pea green to almost black, never banded.

Agreed MJ, I suspect the colour of any snake will depend considerably upon it's diet and surroundings.

[klikster]

Scead, contact the Oz ambulance guys immediately and inform them of their incorrect procedure for snakebit kids.

That info was years old chang. The procedure seems to change as we learn more about snake bite.

Klickster, if you take the trouble to read my post you'll see that the first aid kit referred to would be 60 years old now, it probably had a bottle with leeches in it as well.

I understand that .. but I also saw this apparent revelation

"Or any other type of poisonous bite, apparently I was wrong about the washing as well."

So from your experience as a medic would you advise against placing a pressure bandage on the bite if one was readily available and wouldn't involve considerable loss of time in getting the patient to the hospital?

Um .. if .. how much is not "considerable loss of time"? If you really know how to apply the pressure bandage .. and can do so while the victim is being carried, then let your conscience and good judgment be your guide .. not my conscience .. not my judgment, I won't be there.

Go through the procedure in your own imagination. People involved are perhaps a bit hyper, car/pickup rocking and rolling (assuming you are rushing). Is the victim sitting or lying prone? Can you really get it done and still keep the victim relatively calm? Will it delay getting to professional medical assistance?

[phaethon]

There are banded cobras, but the ones I recall is native to Africa (banded water and Egyptian). IIRC there's an Indian banded too.

There are also rare albino forms, but these tend to be light all over, little difference between top and belly.

[mogoso]

Does anyone have experience with bringing a pet snake into Thailand? I've a Eastern King Snake I'm fond of and would like to bring him with us upon our return in 2010.

He's quite genteel and harmless around a meter and half in length with shiny black skin with slim yellow stripes around the body, very similiar to a Ceylonese krait.

[phaethon]

Does anyone have experience with bringing a pet snake into Thailand? I've a Eastern King Snake I'm fond of and would like to bring him with us upon our return in 2010.

He's quite genteel and harmless around a meter and half in length with shiny black skin with slim yellow stripes around the body, very similiar to a Ceylonese krait.

I'd bring it in my carry-on, if only to see the look on the customs officer's face...

Vancouver consulate website gives details for cats and dogs and follows up with these numbers for 'further enquiries:

Bangkok Airport Customs Office

Tel. (66-2) 535-1269, 535-1153, 535-1680, 535-6463

Department of Livestock Development, Bangkok

Tel. (66-2) 251-5136, 252-6944

or visit website at www.dld.go.th

However the DLD website is taking a nap at the moment...

I could find you details of a good agent if you also decide to start shipping coals to Newcastle...

Edited October 9, 2008 by phaethon

[klikster]

Does anyone have experience with bringing a pet snake into Thailand? I've a Eastern King Snake I'm fond of and would like to bring him with us upon our return in 2010.

He's quite genteel and harmless around a meter and half in length with shiny black skin with slim yellow stripes around the body, very similiar to a Ceylonese krait.

I'd bring it in my carry-on, if only to see the look on the customs officer's face...

LOL! I would like to watch that!

[lannaman]

Having started this thread it is ironic that our 9 year old golden retiever was killed by a snake bite last week. He got it in the neck, and the snake was unseen and unknown, probably a cobra, it was three days before he died. He had a vast amount of purplish coloured stinking blood extracted from a very swollen neck, and the following day a last chance visit to Ratchepat Animal Hospital failed to save him.

[mogoso]

Having started this thread it is ironic that our 9 year old golden retiever was killed by a snake bite last week. He got it in the neck, and the snake was unseen and unknown, probably a cobra, it was three days before he died. He had a vast amount of purplish coloured stinking blood extracted from a very swollen neck, and the following day a last chance visit to Ratchepat Animal Hospital failed to save him.

Very sorry for your loss, I feel the dog was well loved and a part of your family. that will be sorely missed.

May the earth rest lightly upon him.